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NYT article about obesity stating it's genetic, not lack of willpower
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I know a few people who eat whatever they want, whenever they want, and exercise as often or as rarely as they want, and they're lean and healthy as far as I can tell. I assume the differences are mostly genetic. Whether DNA or epigenetic or a combination of both.
They're rare as unicorns these days, so I don't resent them too much.2 -
This is your perfect "nature vs nurture" type of situation. I'm voting for nurture.
Sure, there might be a small genetic component. But it would be like 1% of the influence. Your habits, which are taught at a very young age by your family, are the other 99%. Focus on what you can control.2 -
I know a few people who eat whatever they want, whenever they want, and exercise as often or as rarely as they want, and they're lean and healthy as far as I can tell. I assume the differences are mostly genetic. Whether DNA or epigenetic or a combination of both.
They're rare as unicorns these days, so I don't resent them too much.
I am like this too! Except I used to be a BMI of 28.
I can eat what I want when I want because "what I want" is less now than it used to be.3 -
I know a few people who eat whatever they want, whenever they want, and exercise as often or as rarely as they want, and they're lean and healthy as far as I can tell. I assume the differences are mostly genetic. Whether DNA or epigenetic or a combination of both.
They're rare as unicorns these days, so I don't resent them too much.
Unless you're with these people 24 hours a day, then you don't know how many calories they're actually consuming. And portion sizes can be misleading to look at as well. I've had people make comments about how much I'm eating when we're at a gathering or out at a restaurant-what they don't see is how few calories I ate the rest of the day (or day before/day after etc).2 -
I know a few people who eat whatever they want, whenever they want, and exercise as often or as rarely as they want, and they're lean and healthy as far as I can tell. I assume the differences are mostly genetic. Whether DNA or epigenetic or a combination of both.
They're rare as unicorns these days, so I don't resent them too much.
I would say that it's more because you have an observational bias and you don't know what they really eat or do and this is the whole problem with this line of reasoning. Most people who are severely obese don't appear to others to be eating too much because they are often very conscious of what they eat around others and will often self-report more exercise than they actually do -- I've personally witnessed this as I come from a very heavy family that is rife with metabolic disorder. There are very few people with truly fast or slow metabolisms and usually those differences are rather minor and don't explain the results very well (i.e. low practical significants). I remember watching one show, and yes it's anecdotal but shows this effect very well and it has been shown in research, where two people appeared to each other to eat and exercise about the same. One was lean and the other very heavy and the two women had known each other for a long time and the lean woman had thought that the heavier woman ate and exercised as much as she did due to what she had observed and heard the other talk about. When the documentary team actually observed and recorded what they ate and how much they exercised the differences were astounding. The heavier one ate most of her calories alone and claimed substantially more exercise than she had done.
The differences noted by the documentary team easily explained the differences between the two and it had nothing to do with DNA or epigenetics. Both had normal metabolisms and no medical issues that would have caused the profound difference in weight; it was all due to lifestyle differences as would be predicted.6 -
My point isn't that they're defying the laws of physics. They just don't think about what they put in their mouths vs what they burn off. Ever.
Probably they do pig out sometimes and then skip meals or eat light. But they don't have to think about it. They don't struggle with hunger. They just do it. Of course many of those people were young when I knew them and we've lost touch. Things might have changed in later years!1 -
My point isn't that they're defying the laws of physics. They just don't think about what they put in their mouths vs what they burn off. Ever.
Probably they do pig out sometimes and then skip meals or eat light. But they don't have to think about it. They don't struggle with hunger. They just do it. Of course many of those people were young when I knew them and we've lost touch. Things might have changed in later years!
This was addressed in this thread already I believe, but has been discussed in countless others. Unless you are with them 24 hours a day, logging their food for them and measuring their calorie burns, these magical people who can eat and eat and eat and not gain weight just don't exist. Usually it is that you see one meal they eat in a day or week, and assume they eat like that for every single meal, or you don't know that they walk 20k steps every day so that they are burning higher calories than it would appear.
Somewhere there's a video clip someone might be able to dig up and post about two women, one of whom insisted her friend was one of those people, but it was simply not the case when the meals and calories were accurately tracked.
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I assumed nothing. Unless of course they were all lying and secretly counting calories and working out to stay lean and then pretending to do so effortlessly.
I have seen that video, though. It's good.
My point is, they ate (or claimed to eat) to satiety, to use a technical term, and did not force exercise in order to burn off the excess.2 -
My point isn't that they're defying the laws of physics. They just don't think about what they put in their mouths vs what they burn off. Ever.
Probably they do pig out sometimes and then skip meals or eat light. But they don't have to think about it. They don't struggle with hunger. They just do it. Of course many of those people were young when I knew them and we've lost touch. Things might have changed in later years!
Time changes everything! I was rail thin when I was a teen then I was obese for several years as an adult before I decided to take control again. We develop bad habits when we are young and are more active but when we have careers and kids it catches up.
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I think some people just don't have much interest in food (so they eat based on hunger, but not because food seems tempting) or just don't have much natural appetite. My sister dated a guy like that for a while (he was quite thin) -- he'd eat and appreciate food sometimes, but often would forget to eat lunch and if on his own might just have rice for dinner. Sounds like an ED almost here, but he wasn't excessively thin and didn't seem to have any weird issues and would eat fine if at a restaurant or someone else cooked -- maybe just lazy, but he didn't seem interested in snacks or anything.
Others just naturally are active and enjoy it without thinking of it as exercise (or do it on the job).
Still others just seem to naturally see regulating eating and exercise as something you do and don't make a big thing out of it and you'd maybe think they never thought about it. Years ago I used to think this about my sister and co-workers until I paid more attention and saw that they did offset larger meals with smaller or pay attention to what they were eating and work in exercise -- for whatever reason they did this as a way of avoiding getting overweight, whereas I let myself get fat before figuring out that I needed to do it. My sister does lots of little things that get her to the same place I had to figure out strategies to do -- not sure why, but I don't think it's a genetic difference.
And of course some people just naturally have an equilibrium of the eating and exercise they like and the weight they like without thinking about it. This was me until my late 20s (and probably is more common in relatively young people, as I was), and I would have said that I wasn't naturally thin and would have had to work too hard to get that way (although I had never tried to lose weight seriously at all), but that the tradeoff was that I could eat whatever I wanted and not gain weight. And I thought I ate a lot, but I didn't really -- I just didn't have to think about limiting what I ate and I did eat a lot at specific occasional. When those occasions became more common (for example, when my job meant that I ate at restaurants a lot and I still saw restaurants as a time to indulge), and when my activity decreased (because of normal lifestyle changes that are likely common), I gained easily.6 -
My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.
That's not genetic, it's just easy.
Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.2 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »My point isn't that they're defying the laws of physics. They just don't think about what they put in their mouths vs what they burn off. Ever.
Probably they do pig out sometimes and then skip meals or eat light. But they don't have to think about it. They don't struggle with hunger. They just do it. Of course many of those people were young when I knew them and we've lost touch. Things might have changed in later years!
Time changes everything! I was rail thin when I was a teen then I was obese for several years as an adult before I decided to take control again. We develop bad habits when we are young and are more active but when we have careers and kids it catches up.
I think that is true for virtually everyone. If young people today who maintain a lean body effortlessly and without thought are unicorns, middle-aged people who do so are surely flying unicorns!2 -
JamestheLiar wrote: »My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.
That's not genetic, it's just easy.
Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.
This is my issue as well. I like to savor experiences, so take time with my food. I lived too long in a rush and devouring meals without tasting them, so I now enjoy my quest for the perfect omelet.
You can also take this to preparing the food. My wife loves to bake, but after our newfound healthquest we just eat within budget.1 -
JamestheLiar wrote: »My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.
That's not genetic, it's just easy.
Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.
I agree that it is not genetic. I see more a strong habitual association between food and comfort and social relationships. Reminds me of when I quit smoking. Oh, and drinking too. While it was really difficult to participate in certain activities without smoking when I quit (like going to a bar with friends -- I just couldn't sit at a bar and not smoke while they did!), it was even worse when I quit drinking (I am not an alcoholic, but I quit drinking to support my spouse who was). Everything in your post made me think of how I felt during the year that it took me to disassociate the act of drinking with pretty much every pleasant social function. I had to learn a new skill of socializing without a cocktail, while also training myself to not connect every social situation with an excuse to drink. I am still sometimes surprised by certain people's reactions when I don't drink. Like they never even considered not drinking as an option.
Substituting 'drinking alcohol' for 'eating food' in your post,:Alcohol is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we drink. Major holidays, we drink. Going out on a date, we drink. Vacations, we drink. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we drink...
I can definitely see how some people have very strong associations between food and comfort and pleasure, making it hard to moderate. You can't just go cold turkey with food like you can with alcohol. You have to go cold turkey with the habit of overeating and try to make permanent, sustainable changes and avoid the behavioral relapse.4 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »My point isn't that they're defying the laws of physics. They just don't think about what they put in their mouths vs what they burn off. Ever.
Probably they do pig out sometimes and then skip meals or eat light. But they don't have to think about it. They don't struggle with hunger. They just do it. Of course many of those people were young when I knew them and we've lost touch. Things might have changed in later years!
Time changes everything! I was rail thin when I was a teen then I was obese for several years as an adult before I decided to take control again. We develop bad habits when we are young and are more active but when we have careers and kids it catches up.
I think that is true for virtually everyone. If young people today who maintain a lean body effortlessly and without thought are unicorns, middle-aged people who do so are surely flying unicorns!
I think part of the debate ends up being about what it means to be in shape "effortlessly and without thought."
Do some people do this because they are (at least at some points in their life) at equilibrium and yet have the capacity to gain easily if things changed? I think there's no question that this is so.
What some claim (and therefore, what sometimes gets read into such statements) is that some people DO eat way over what would normally be their TDEE at their size and activity and yet not gain -- they can magically eat 5K calories daily as a 5'3, 120 lb woman who has average activity and not gain or some such. That I think is really rare (there do seem to be hard gainers who increase unintended activity disproportionately when increasing calories, but also they seem to have more significantly a really hard time eating the calories needed to gain -- they don't want to eat that much -- and so will gain some in overfeeding studies and then easily lose it when going back to preferred levels of eating and activity).
The problem with the naturally can eat lots and not gain thing is that I think people translate it into an idea that some can be sedentary and eat unlimited amounts of food and not get fat and that they, on the other hand, will gain on 1200 when running 10 miles a day or something equally over-the-top -- that their bodies are resistant to losing and that the real reason they are fat and others are thin isn't choices they can make (how much they eat and move) but their body wanting to hold on to fat or some such. I think that mindset makes weight loss harder, and it's just not accurate in such an extreme way. There are genetic differences, I'm sure, but not ones that actually make a major difference here.3 -
CorneliusPhoton wrote: »JamestheLiar wrote: »My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.
That's not genetic, it's just easy.
Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.
I agree that it is not genetic. I see more a strong habitual association between food and comfort and social relationships. Reminds me of when I quit smoking. Oh, and drinking too. While it was really difficult to participate in certain activities without smoking when I quit (like going to a bar with friends -- I just couldn't sit at a bar and not smoke while they did!), it was even worse when I quit drinking (I am not an alcoholic, but I quit drinking to support my spouse who was). Everything in your post made me think of how I felt during the year that it took me to disassociate the act of drinking with pretty much every pleasant social function. I had to learn a new skill of socializing without a cocktail, while also training myself to not connect every social situation with an excuse to drink. I am still sometimes surprised by certain people's reactions when I don't drink. Like they never even considered not drinking as an option.
Substituting 'drinking alcohol' for 'eating food' in your post,:Alcohol is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we drink. Major holidays, we drink. Going out on a date, we drink. Vacations, we drink. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we drink...
I can definitely see how some people have very strong associations between food and comfort and pleasure, making it hard to moderate. You can't just go cold turkey with food like you can with alcohol. You have to go cold turkey with the habit of overeating and try to make permanent, sustainable changes and avoid the behavioral relapse.
I think those correlations between drinking and eating are profound. In fact, they might even be helpful in adjusting our frame of mind when changing our eating habits. I personally don't believe in food addiction, so the comparison isn't necessarily "one for one," but there are clear similarities. Even the Christian Bible seems to connect gluttony with drunkenness.
Maybe that explains why we (people) tend to look to genetics (et al) to excuse our behavior.4 -
JamestheLiar wrote: »CorneliusPhoton wrote: »JamestheLiar wrote: »My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.
That's not genetic, it's just easy.
Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.
I agree that it is not genetic. I see more a strong habitual association between food and comfort and social relationships. Reminds me of when I quit smoking. Oh, and drinking too. While it was really difficult to participate in certain activities without smoking when I quit (like going to a bar with friends -- I just couldn't sit at a bar and not smoke while they did!), it was even worse when I quit drinking (I am not an alcoholic, but I quit drinking to support my spouse who was). Everything in your post made me think of how I felt during the year that it took me to disassociate the act of drinking with pretty much every pleasant social function. I had to learn a new skill of socializing without a cocktail, while also training myself to not connect every social situation with an excuse to drink. I am still sometimes surprised by certain people's reactions when I don't drink. Like they never even considered not drinking as an option.
Substituting 'drinking alcohol' for 'eating food' in your post,:Alcohol is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we drink. Major holidays, we drink. Going out on a date, we drink. Vacations, we drink. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we drink...
I can definitely see how some people have very strong associations between food and comfort and pleasure, making it hard to moderate. You can't just go cold turkey with food like you can with alcohol. You have to go cold turkey with the habit of overeating and try to make permanent, sustainable changes and avoid the behavioral relapse.
I think those correlations between drinking and eating are profound. In fact, they might even be helpful in adjusting our frame of mind when changing our eating habits. I personally don't believe in food addiction, so the comparison isn't necessarily "one for one," but there are clear similarities. Even the Christian Bible seems to connect gluttony with drunkenness.
But of course traditionally drunkenness is a form of gluttony -- gluttony is overindulgence in food or drink (or even more, if you look at how it's normally interpreted in a religious context or even just read Dante's Inferno). To the extent you seem to be seeing some deeper meaning, I'm not following.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »JamestheLiar wrote: »CorneliusPhoton wrote: »JamestheLiar wrote: »My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.
That's not genetic, it's just easy.
Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.
I agree that it is not genetic. I see more a strong habitual association between food and comfort and social relationships. Reminds me of when I quit smoking. Oh, and drinking too. While it was really difficult to participate in certain activities without smoking when I quit (like going to a bar with friends -- I just couldn't sit at a bar and not smoke while they did!), it was even worse when I quit drinking (I am not an alcoholic, but I quit drinking to support my spouse who was). Everything in your post made me think of how I felt during the year that it took me to disassociate the act of drinking with pretty much every pleasant social function. I had to learn a new skill of socializing without a cocktail, while also training myself to not connect every social situation with an excuse to drink. I am still sometimes surprised by certain people's reactions when I don't drink. Like they never even considered not drinking as an option.
Substituting 'drinking alcohol' for 'eating food' in your post,:Alcohol is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we drink. Major holidays, we drink. Going out on a date, we drink. Vacations, we drink. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we drink...
I can definitely see how some people have very strong associations between food and comfort and pleasure, making it hard to moderate. You can't just go cold turkey with food like you can with alcohol. You have to go cold turkey with the habit of overeating and try to make permanent, sustainable changes and avoid the behavioral relapse.
I think those correlations between drinking and eating are profound. In fact, they might even be helpful in adjusting our frame of mind when changing our eating habits. I personally don't believe in food addiction, so the comparison isn't necessarily "one for one," but there are clear similarities. Even the Christian Bible seems to connect gluttony with drunkenness.
But of course traditionally drunkenness is a form of gluttony -- gluttony is overindulgence in food or drink (or even more, if you look at how it's normally interpreted in a religious context or even just read Dante's Inferno). To the extent you seem to be seeing some deeper meaning, I'm not following.
No deeper meaning. Just similarities. I tend to overthink these things sometimes.2 -
Ah, me too. ;-)0
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If it were genetics, why do we now have more obesity than 20 years ago?
Granted environment makes a difference. If one celebrates with food or hangs around food all the time, it's not uncommon for them to get overweight or obese. But it one CANNOT get obese if they don't surplus. And that's more a behavioral issue than a genetic issue.
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