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NYT article about obesity stating it's genetic, not lack of willpower

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Replies

  • Samarisa
    Samarisa Posts: 22 Member
    I know a few people who eat whatever they want, whenever they want, and exercise as often or as rarely as they want, and they're lean and healthy as far as I can tell. I assume the differences are mostly genetic. Whether DNA or epigenetic or a combination of both.

    They're rare as unicorns these days, so I don't resent them too much.
  • SingRunTing
    SingRunTing Posts: 2,604 Member
    This is your perfect "nature vs nurture" type of situation. I'm voting for nurture.

    Sure, there might be a small genetic component. But it would be like 1% of the influence. Your habits, which are taught at a very young age by your family, are the other 99%. Focus on what you can control.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    Samarisa wrote: »
    I know a few people who eat whatever they want, whenever they want, and exercise as often or as rarely as they want, and they're lean and healthy as far as I can tell. I assume the differences are mostly genetic. Whether DNA or epigenetic or a combination of both.

    They're rare as unicorns these days, so I don't resent them too much.

    I am like this too! Except I used to be a BMI of 28.
    I can eat what I want when I want because "what I want" is less now than it used to be.
  • crzycatlady1
    crzycatlady1 Posts: 1,930 Member
    edited December 2016
    Samarisa wrote: »
    I know a few people who eat whatever they want, whenever they want, and exercise as often or as rarely as they want, and they're lean and healthy as far as I can tell. I assume the differences are mostly genetic. Whether DNA or epigenetic or a combination of both.

    They're rare as unicorns these days, so I don't resent them too much.

    Unless you're with these people 24 hours a day, then you don't know how many calories they're actually consuming. And portion sizes can be misleading to look at as well. I've had people make comments about how much I'm eating when we're at a gathering or out at a restaurant-what they don't see is how few calories I ate the rest of the day (or day before/day after etc).
  • Samarisa
    Samarisa Posts: 22 Member
    My point isn't that they're defying the laws of physics. They just don't think about what they put in their mouths vs what they burn off. Ever.

    Probably they do pig out sometimes and then skip meals or eat light. But they don't have to think about it. They don't struggle with hunger. They just do it. Of course many of those people were young when I knew them and we've lost touch. Things might have changed in later years!
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,455 Member
    Samarisa wrote: »
    My point isn't that they're defying the laws of physics. They just don't think about what they put in their mouths vs what they burn off. Ever.

    Probably they do pig out sometimes and then skip meals or eat light. But they don't have to think about it. They don't struggle with hunger. They just do it. Of course many of those people were young when I knew them and we've lost touch. Things might have changed in later years!

    This was addressed in this thread already I believe, but has been discussed in countless others. Unless you are with them 24 hours a day, logging their food for them and measuring their calorie burns, these magical people who can eat and eat and eat and not gain weight just don't exist. Usually it is that you see one meal they eat in a day or week, and assume they eat like that for every single meal, or you don't know that they walk 20k steps every day so that they are burning higher calories than it would appear.

    Somewhere there's a video clip someone might be able to dig up and post about two women, one of whom insisted her friend was one of those people, but it was simply not the case when the meals and calories were accurately tracked.
  • Samarisa
    Samarisa Posts: 22 Member
    edited December 2016
    I assumed nothing. Unless of course they were all lying and secretly counting calories and working out to stay lean and then pretending to do so effortlessly.

    I have seen that video, though. It's good.

    My point is, they ate (or claimed to eat) to satiety, to use a technical term, and did not force exercise in order to burn off the excess.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Samarisa wrote: »
    My point isn't that they're defying the laws of physics. They just don't think about what they put in their mouths vs what they burn off. Ever.

    Probably they do pig out sometimes and then skip meals or eat light. But they don't have to think about it. They don't struggle with hunger. They just do it. Of course many of those people were young when I knew them and we've lost touch. Things might have changed in later years!

    Time changes everything! I was rail thin when I was a teen then I was obese for several years as an adult before I decided to take control again. We develop bad habits when we are young and are more active but when we have careers and kids it catches up.
  • JamestheLiar
    JamestheLiar Posts: 148 Member
    My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.

    That's not genetic, it's just easy.

    Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.
  • Samarisa
    Samarisa Posts: 22 Member
    Samarisa wrote: »
    My point isn't that they're defying the laws of physics. They just don't think about what they put in their mouths vs what they burn off. Ever.

    Probably they do pig out sometimes and then skip meals or eat light. But they don't have to think about it. They don't struggle with hunger. They just do it. Of course many of those people were young when I knew them and we've lost touch. Things might have changed in later years!

    Time changes everything! I was rail thin when I was a teen then I was obese for several years as an adult before I decided to take control again. We develop bad habits when we are young and are more active but when we have careers and kids it catches up.

    I think that is true for virtually everyone. If young people today who maintain a lean body effortlessly and without thought are unicorns, middle-aged people who do so are surely flying unicorns!
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,257 Member
    My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.

    That's not genetic, it's just easy.

    Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.

    This is my issue as well. I like to savor experiences, so take time with my food. I lived too long in a rush and devouring meals without tasting them, so I now enjoy my quest for the perfect omelet.

    You can also take this to preparing the food. My wife loves to bake, but after our newfound healthquest we just eat within budget.
  • CorneliusPhoton
    CorneliusPhoton Posts: 965 Member
    My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.

    That's not genetic, it's just easy.

    Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.

    I agree that it is not genetic. I see more a strong habitual association between food and comfort and social relationships. Reminds me of when I quit smoking. Oh, and drinking too. While it was really difficult to participate in certain activities without smoking when I quit (like going to a bar with friends -- I just couldn't sit at a bar and not smoke while they did!), it was even worse when I quit drinking (I am not an alcoholic, but I quit drinking to support my spouse who was). Everything in your post made me think of how I felt during the year that it took me to disassociate the act of drinking with pretty much every pleasant social function. I had to learn a new skill of socializing without a cocktail, while also training myself to not connect every social situation with an excuse to drink. I am still sometimes surprised by certain people's reactions when I don't drink. Like they never even considered not drinking as an option.

    Substituting 'drinking alcohol' for 'eating food' in your post,:
    Alcohol is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we drink. Major holidays, we drink. Going out on a date, we drink. Vacations, we drink. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we drink...

    I can definitely see how some people have very strong associations between food and comfort and pleasure, making it hard to moderate. You can't just go cold turkey with food like you can with alcohol. You have to go cold turkey with the habit of overeating and try to make permanent, sustainable changes and avoid the behavioral relapse.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Samarisa wrote: »
    Samarisa wrote: »
    My point isn't that they're defying the laws of physics. They just don't think about what they put in their mouths vs what they burn off. Ever.

    Probably they do pig out sometimes and then skip meals or eat light. But they don't have to think about it. They don't struggle with hunger. They just do it. Of course many of those people were young when I knew them and we've lost touch. Things might have changed in later years!

    Time changes everything! I was rail thin when I was a teen then I was obese for several years as an adult before I decided to take control again. We develop bad habits when we are young and are more active but when we have careers and kids it catches up.

    I think that is true for virtually everyone. If young people today who maintain a lean body effortlessly and without thought are unicorns, middle-aged people who do so are surely flying unicorns!

    I think part of the debate ends up being about what it means to be in shape "effortlessly and without thought."

    Do some people do this because they are (at least at some points in their life) at equilibrium and yet have the capacity to gain easily if things changed? I think there's no question that this is so.

    What some claim (and therefore, what sometimes gets read into such statements) is that some people DO eat way over what would normally be their TDEE at their size and activity and yet not gain -- they can magically eat 5K calories daily as a 5'3, 120 lb woman who has average activity and not gain or some such. That I think is really rare (there do seem to be hard gainers who increase unintended activity disproportionately when increasing calories, but also they seem to have more significantly a really hard time eating the calories needed to gain -- they don't want to eat that much -- and so will gain some in overfeeding studies and then easily lose it when going back to preferred levels of eating and activity).

    The problem with the naturally can eat lots and not gain thing is that I think people translate it into an idea that some can be sedentary and eat unlimited amounts of food and not get fat and that they, on the other hand, will gain on 1200 when running 10 miles a day or something equally over-the-top -- that their bodies are resistant to losing and that the real reason they are fat and others are thin isn't choices they can make (how much they eat and move) but their body wanting to hold on to fat or some such. I think that mindset makes weight loss harder, and it's just not accurate in such an extreme way. There are genetic differences, I'm sure, but not ones that actually make a major difference here.
  • JamestheLiar
    JamestheLiar Posts: 148 Member
    My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.

    That's not genetic, it's just easy.

    Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.

    I agree that it is not genetic. I see more a strong habitual association between food and comfort and social relationships. Reminds me of when I quit smoking. Oh, and drinking too. While it was really difficult to participate in certain activities without smoking when I quit (like going to a bar with friends -- I just couldn't sit at a bar and not smoke while they did!), it was even worse when I quit drinking (I am not an alcoholic, but I quit drinking to support my spouse who was). Everything in your post made me think of how I felt during the year that it took me to disassociate the act of drinking with pretty much every pleasant social function. I had to learn a new skill of socializing without a cocktail, while also training myself to not connect every social situation with an excuse to drink. I am still sometimes surprised by certain people's reactions when I don't drink. Like they never even considered not drinking as an option.

    Substituting 'drinking alcohol' for 'eating food' in your post,:
    Alcohol is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we drink. Major holidays, we drink. Going out on a date, we drink. Vacations, we drink. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we drink...

    I can definitely see how some people have very strong associations between food and comfort and pleasure, making it hard to moderate. You can't just go cold turkey with food like you can with alcohol. You have to go cold turkey with the habit of overeating and try to make permanent, sustainable changes and avoid the behavioral relapse.

    I think those correlations between drinking and eating are profound. In fact, they might even be helpful in adjusting our frame of mind when changing our eating habits. I personally don't believe in food addiction, so the comparison isn't necessarily "one for one," but there are clear similarities. Even the Christian Bible seems to connect gluttony with drunkenness.

    Maybe that explains why we (people) tend to look to genetics (et al) to excuse our behavior.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited December 2016
    My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.

    That's not genetic, it's just easy.

    Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.

    I agree that it is not genetic. I see more a strong habitual association between food and comfort and social relationships. Reminds me of when I quit smoking. Oh, and drinking too. While it was really difficult to participate in certain activities without smoking when I quit (like going to a bar with friends -- I just couldn't sit at a bar and not smoke while they did!), it was even worse when I quit drinking (I am not an alcoholic, but I quit drinking to support my spouse who was). Everything in your post made me think of how I felt during the year that it took me to disassociate the act of drinking with pretty much every pleasant social function. I had to learn a new skill of socializing without a cocktail, while also training myself to not connect every social situation with an excuse to drink. I am still sometimes surprised by certain people's reactions when I don't drink. Like they never even considered not drinking as an option.

    Substituting 'drinking alcohol' for 'eating food' in your post,:
    Alcohol is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we drink. Major holidays, we drink. Going out on a date, we drink. Vacations, we drink. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we drink...

    I can definitely see how some people have very strong associations between food and comfort and pleasure, making it hard to moderate. You can't just go cold turkey with food like you can with alcohol. You have to go cold turkey with the habit of overeating and try to make permanent, sustainable changes and avoid the behavioral relapse.

    I think those correlations between drinking and eating are profound. In fact, they might even be helpful in adjusting our frame of mind when changing our eating habits. I personally don't believe in food addiction, so the comparison isn't necessarily "one for one," but there are clear similarities. Even the Christian Bible seems to connect gluttony with drunkenness.

    But of course traditionally drunkenness is a form of gluttony -- gluttony is overindulgence in food or drink (or even more, if you look at how it's normally interpreted in a religious context or even just read Dante's Inferno). To the extent you seem to be seeing some deeper meaning, I'm not following.
  • JamestheLiar
    JamestheLiar Posts: 148 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    My problem is this: eating is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we eat. Major holidays, we eat. Going out on a date, we eat. Vacations, we eat. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we eat. My children have no idea what my favorite song is (I'm not sure I know it myself), but they know exactly what my favorite dish is.

    That's not genetic, it's just easy.

    Food may or may not affect me the same as it affects others, but I'm overweight because I love to eat and a little bit is never enough.

    I agree that it is not genetic. I see more a strong habitual association between food and comfort and social relationships. Reminds me of when I quit smoking. Oh, and drinking too. While it was really difficult to participate in certain activities without smoking when I quit (like going to a bar with friends -- I just couldn't sit at a bar and not smoke while they did!), it was even worse when I quit drinking (I am not an alcoholic, but I quit drinking to support my spouse who was). Everything in your post made me think of how I felt during the year that it took me to disassociate the act of drinking with pretty much every pleasant social function. I had to learn a new skill of socializing without a cocktail, while also training myself to not connect every social situation with an excuse to drink. I am still sometimes surprised by certain people's reactions when I don't drink. Like they never even considered not drinking as an option.

    Substituting 'drinking alcohol' for 'eating food' in your post,:
    Alcohol is a part of almost everything that I find joy in. If there is a celebration in my family, we drink. Major holidays, we drink. Going out on a date, we drink. Vacations, we drink. If I want to treat myself or someone I love in any way, we drink...

    I can definitely see how some people have very strong associations between food and comfort and pleasure, making it hard to moderate. You can't just go cold turkey with food like you can with alcohol. You have to go cold turkey with the habit of overeating and try to make permanent, sustainable changes and avoid the behavioral relapse.

    I think those correlations between drinking and eating are profound. In fact, they might even be helpful in adjusting our frame of mind when changing our eating habits. I personally don't believe in food addiction, so the comparison isn't necessarily "one for one," but there are clear similarities. Even the Christian Bible seems to connect gluttony with drunkenness.

    But of course traditionally drunkenness is a form of gluttony -- gluttony is overindulgence in food or drink (or even more, if you look at how it's normally interpreted in a religious context or even just read Dante's Inferno). To the extent you seem to be seeing some deeper meaning, I'm not following.

    No deeper meaning. Just similarities. I tend to overthink these things sometimes.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Ah, me too. ;-)