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NYT article about obesity stating it's genetic, not lack of willpower
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It's far more complicated than some people will believe. If you're obese or overweight, the automatic assumption by a lot of people is that you're over eating or lazy or don't care or don't make an effort to lose weight. As someone who has a (diagnosed) metabolic issue, it's a little different.
Those are very different things. Someone gaining fat IS more than he/she burns, but that doesn't mean he/she is lazy or doesn't make an effort or (although in a relatively small percentage of cases) doesn't have a metabolic issue that contributes and needs to be corrected.
I think many overweight people (from what I've seen both on MFP and offline) get upset if they must acknowledge that they are eating more than they burn because they presume that means "are lazy" or "are eating like a pig" and probably because there's still a stigma in the US for a lot of women about eating a lot=unfeminine or something (like we are all Scarlett O'Hara being told to eat before a party so she can pretend she eats like a bird, which seems so weirdly outdated to me). Thus, people insisting that they got fat from eating too little and the like, or who have a really hard time logging accurately (although there's more to that) or looking squarely at their eating and acknowledging that it includes too many calories. Too bad, because being honest to yourself about this typically helps people figure out that they can cut calories without having to do some kind of awful starvation diet.You can't just plug your numbers into one of the many calculators out there and get a TDEE and then pull 20% off of that and start losing weight. It is possible to lose weight for me with my condition, but it's extremely slow and has a severe deficit in order to happen.
No, you can't assume that a calculator works for you, especially since they are all over the place and, especially, the non body fat calculators tend to overestimate TDEE when someone is significantly overweight. I always recommend adjusting for results and if your TDEE seems way below what it should be bringing the detailed logs and information to a doctor. Most of the time an MFP or other honestly obtained estimate is going to allow for loss, however, especially if one adjusts. In the rare cases there's a metabolic issue that makes TDEE way low, that is important to discover and get fixed by a doctor, of course, but even in those cases people don't lose because they are overeating for their current burn. It's just that their burn needs to be adjusted (by dealing with the thyroid issue, for example), not just the eating -- and I'd say that becomes first priority.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
...weight gain is seldom a will power factor in my view. For some physical/mental reason we over eat. Often due to failing health for some reason we may eat more to get more energy or comfort.BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
The first step to lose weight may best be to learn the physical/mental reason we over eat.
That was true for me. My health was failing long before I gained weight. I have a few autoimmune issues, a couple of which took a few decades to figure out. My activity level dropped significantly due to pain and lack of energy, and I did eat more for energy. There's only so much coffee and sleep one can get and still get through a day.
I started gaining weight more quickly once I had insulin resistance. I ended up with reactive hypoglycemia so I had to eat every couple of hours or I was a shaky mess.
Once my health issues were addressed, weight loss was much easier. I agree that weight loss is not just about will power for everyone. Other issues need to be addressed first, whether they are genetic, mental or physical issues.1 -
It's far more complicated than some people will believe. If you're obese or overweight, the automatic assumption by a lot of people is that you're over eating or lazy or don't care or don't make an effort to lose weight. As someone who has a (diagnosed) metabolic issue, it's a little different.
You can't just plug your numbers into one of the many calculators out there and get a TDEE and then pull 20% off of that and start losing weight. It is possible to lose weight for me with my condition, but it's extremely slow and has a severe deficit in order to happen.
I'm not lazy or uneducated or not willing to put in the hard work, but I do wish that people wouldn't paint everyone with the same brush and call it a day. You don't have to understand the challenges some people face, but you also don't have to assume that you know their story or how they might be tackling this for their body and circumstances.
What's the metabolic condition you were diagnosed with?5 -
There must have been a huge genetic shift since the 1950s then! This is unprecedented in evolutionary history!8
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The idea that it's easier for some people to gain large amounts of weight than others makes sense to me. I would consider overeating to be more of a negative experience than a positive one. It takes certain conditions for me to choose to overeat, and thankfully, those conditions are generally short lived.
I'm reminded of alcohol consumption. When I was younger and drinking played more of a role in my life, I'd see people regularly over consume. But for me, after a certain point, the idea of even one more sip of alcohol would be abhorrent. I didn't have to tell myself it was time to stop. I didn't have to exercise self control. My body did it for me. It obviously didn't work that way for everyone.6 -
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nutmegoreo wrote: »
They make it far too easy to repeatedly pick up Snackwells. Do they even still make those, or did they die when people realized low-fat was dumb?0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »
They make it far too easy to repeatedly pick up Snackwells. Do they even still make those, or did they die when people realized low-fat was dumb?
No, they're still around. Saw them on the end cap at the grocery store this weekend.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »
They make it far too easy to repeatedly pick up Snackwells. Do they even still make those, or did they die when people realized low-fat was dumb?
No, they're still around. Saw them on the end cap at the grocery store this weekend.
Well, it's good to see that the Atkin's bar's equally ugly older sibling is still around.1 -
If it were genetics, why do we now have more obesity than 20 years ago?
Good point. But if it was willpower, then why do we apparently have much less willpower than 20 years ago?
And why do I apparently have much less willpower than I did 20 years ago? But more than I did four years ago, when I was heavier?
I think it has to be mixture of genetics and other factors. I find it difficult to believe it's just down to a massive decrease in the population's willpower.
We never had willpower: we just didn't have as many vending machines, deliveries, and drive thrus4 -
Not so sure the fast food and drive throughs are the culprit. I gained 50 pounds over three years of eating all fresh whole home prepared foods, no junk food or deserts! Lol! and lost it by using mfp to log calories and following a deficit of 200 to 250 calories down from my tdee for 8 - 9 months.
Its not the times, its us.0 -
cmriverside wrote: »
evolution takes generations and natural selection even longer, like in the 100's if not 1000's of years to show up.
Adaptation is more like 100's and it's 1000's to 10000's of years for evolution. Our species has only been around around 200 years and we haven't really evolved much but we have adapted.1 -
A lot of things have changed in 20 years. One is cheap unhealthy food is getting cheaper, healthy food more expensive...at least by comparison. "Food deserts" are a thing--areas of poverty where access to good quality healthy food is minimal.
I think the big change is media use. In the 1970s, yeah kids watched TV but we went out to play. Kids in big cities played on the streets...and this is 1970s which had higher crime rates. Now, unless a child is enrolled in soccer after school they are likely inside playing video games. There are no neighborhood kids to play with...there are fewer stay at home parents and thus the kids are in daycare or after-school programs.
Parents are often commuting or working, both of which take time out of the day that could be spent taking a walk or something.1 -
I believe the premise to be true, but not the way it was portrayed. Yes, for the morbidly obese a big part is genetic, and no, willpower is not the best way to handle it. Let me explain.
I personally believe that I'm evolutionally gifted. When I eat, I need larger amounts of food for my satiety hormones to kick in than many naturally thin people. When I'm overfull, I'm capable of eating beyond fullness when many thin people would feel physically ill. When I do a hard workout, I unconsciously reduce my NEAT so my expenditure is nearly identical to a day where I do no deliberate exercise, and when I overeat I don't unconsciously increase my NEAT like many naturally people thin do. When I undereat, I move less as well. I could have sworn that I move just the same, but gadgets don't usually make up step counts randomly. Fats don't fill me up, so I'm capable of overeating them without an unconscious reduction in my overall calories.
Basically, I have all the mindless automatic mechanisms that favor fat storage, and few to none of the mindless mechanisms that favor equilibrium at a lower weight. I've won the genetic lottery for famine survival. You rarely cross the 300 pound line unless you're as lucky as I am. There is a reason some people's "fat" self hovers at overweight while others leap head first into super morbid obesity, living in the same world of abundance and convenience.
Do I believe I'm doomed? Not really, no. I do believe that I have more challenges to overcome because I will need to be consciously watching for my unconscious tendencies, and would need to maintain at nearly half of my previous calories. I also firmly believe that willpower and white knuckling it would not produce lasting results in most cases. Willpower and motivation are fleeting resources. I got here because I mindlessly favor weight gain, so I need to build strategies that mindlessly favor maintaining a healthy weight. The two things that come to mind that would help take some brain work out of the process are habits and environment modifications. Coupled with a sustainable system for damage control and mindful attention to food and activity without it turning into an overwhelming mess, that's basically my holy grail. Take as much brain work out of it as possible, and make the rest pleasantly sustainable.9 -
During war, obese people didn't exist. it all the convenient prepackaged and cheap food ready available, we eat too much and the wrong food too....and we don't move walk eccetera......in the 50 they were all slim.....so what happen ? Do the genetic changed ? I don't think so.......2
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During war, obese people didn't exist. it all the convenient prepackaged and cheap food ready available, we eat too much and the wrong food too....and we don't move walk eccetera......in the 50 they were all slim.....so what happen ? Do the genetic changed ? I don't think so.......
The prevalence of food and variety of food choices as well as the increasingly sedentary lifestyles of individuals has been discussed in this thread as likely being a large contributor to obesity. What are the "wrong foods" you refer to?5 -
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Carlos_421 wrote: »
Pfft, I know better. I've seen Zombieland.
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During war, obese people didn't exist. it all the convenient prepackaged and cheap food ready available, we eat too much and the wrong food too....and we don't move walk eccetera......in the 50 they were all slim.....so what happen ? Do the genetic changed ? I don't think so.......
My grandparents/great-grandparents/great-uncles/uncles/parents were/are all overweight/obese-they must have not gotten the 'no one was fat during war/the 50s' memo
And what is a 'wrong' food? Because weight loss, weight gain, and weight maintenance comes down to CICO. Do we seriously have to revisit the Twinkie guy again?3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »During war, obese people didn't exist. it all the convenient prepackaged and cheap food ready available, we eat too much and the wrong food too....and we don't move walk eccetera......in the 50 they were all slim.....so what happen ? Do the genetic changed ? I don't think so.......
The prevalence of food and variety of food choices as well as the increasingly sedentary lifestyles of individuals has been discussed in this thread as likely being a large contributor to obesity. What are the "wrong foods" you refer to?
Personally in my case "wrong foods" are Processed Carbs. With effort I can gain weight eating No processed foods but my total carbs have to be > 50 grams daily.
The energy in the carbs may not be the direct issue but for some reason eating more than 50 grams of carbs daily drives my appetite out of control.
After two years I know in my case carbs is what trips me up. LCHF gives me great lab results and stopped all high blood pressure and fasting blood glucose health concerns for two years now.
Plus this WOE manages my pain well and yields a better mental and emotional state of mind which puts a smile on my face and those who have to live and work with me.
Genetics and will power may be factors in humans we all can agree.1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »During war, obese people didn't exist. it all the convenient prepackaged and cheap food ready available, we eat too much and the wrong food too....and we don't move walk eccetera......in the 50 they were all slim.....so what happen ? Do the genetic changed ? I don't think so.......
The prevalence of food and variety of food choices as well as the increasingly sedentary lifestyles of individuals has been discussed in this thread as likely being a large contributor to obesity. What are the "wrong foods" you refer to?
Personally in my case "wrong foods" are Processed Carbs. With effort I can gain weight eating No processed foods but my total carbs have to be > 50 grams daily.
So you believe that in many or most traditional cultures, eating traditional foods (or how we did in the US in the 1940s or 1950s) you would have been obese? Even if you had to be active in your daily life, etc.
Hmm.
Then you would have been an outlier and apparently the argument that we wouldn't have been fat in the '40s and '50s isn't accurate.1 -
Back in my college days a medium pizza and large cheesy breadsticks was not an uncommon meal for me. But I played basketball for 3-4 hours every night, lifted weights every morning, and went for a run around lunch time. I was very active. Instead of putting weight on my freshman year, I lost 10 pounds.
As I've gotten older my calorie intake has reduced, but my activity level has gone from one extreme to the other. I enjoy eating junk food; chips, candy bars, soda, etc. I am overweight because I choose Netflix over a run, potato chips over an apple, and soda over water. My being overweight is 100% due to my decisions.
This is my story, it has nothing to do with genetics and I'm certain that I am not the only one.5 -
I think the biggest factor in obesity is the GMO's in our food, honestly. Countries without GMO's don't have these large-scale obesity problems. That being said, modern humans eat way too much food and don't get enough exercise. I'm not talking about going to the gym, I'm talking about just walking more daily. When I lived in Europe or even in NYC for that matter, I walked everywhere - to the corner store, to the train, to the bus, to the grocery store. And in those kinds of neighborhoods, you don't see the same obesity rates you see elsewhere.0
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I think the biggest factor in obesity is the GMO's in our food, honestly. Countries without GMO's don't have these large-scale obesity problems. That being said, modern humans eat way too much food and don't get enough exercise. I'm not talking about going to the gym, I'm talking about just walking more daily. When I lived in Europe or even in NYC for that matter, I walked everywhere - to the corner store, to the train, to the bus, to the grocery store. And in those kinds of neighborhoods, you don't see the same obesity rates you see elsewhere.
GMO food has more calories than regular food?9 -
I think the biggest factor in obesity is the GMO's in our food, honestly. Countries without GMO's don't have these large-scale obesity problems. That being said, modern humans eat way too much food and don't get enough exercise. I'm not talking about going to the gym, I'm talking about just walking more daily. When I lived in Europe or even in NYC for that matter, I walked everywhere - to the corner store, to the train, to the bus, to the grocery store. And in those kinds of neighborhoods, you don't see the same obesity rates you see elsewhere.
Do you have any studies to back this up? I think this is the first time I've ever heard of GMOs being blamed for weight gain.6 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »
GMO food has more calories than regular food?
No, they don't contain more calories. There has been research on rats fed GMO's and rats not fed GMO's. The rats who were fed the GMO's consumed more calories than the ones not fed them. Their appetites were larger and so they ate more than their counterparts not fed any food containing GMO's. They also were not able to digest the GMO food as well as the non-GMO food, further causing weight gain than just the additional calories craved. I don't really buy ANY of the statements from the FDA that say that GMO's are perfectly safe. Countries all over the world are doing research that states otherwise. Obesity rates started rising quickly as soon as GMO's were introduced to our food. It's not a coincidence. And I believe the US wants us to be overweight, honestly. Obesity is big business and great for the economy.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »
GMO food has more calories than regular food?
No, they don't contain more calories. There has been research on rats fed GMO's and rats not fed GMO's. The rats who were fed the GMO's consumed more calories than the ones not fed them. Their appetites were larger and so they ate more than their counterparts not fed any food containing GMO's. They also were not able to digest the GMO food as well as the non-GMO food, further causing weight gain than just the additional calories craved. I don't really buy ANY of the statements from the FDA that say that GMO's are perfectly safe. Countries all over the world are doing research that states otherwise. Obesity rates started rising quickly as soon as GMO's were introduced to our food. It's not a coincidence. And I believe the US wants us to be overweight, honestly. Obesity is big business and great for the economy.
So how do you explain all the people who eat GMO foods and aren't overweight or obese, and are in good health?
Also, can you post links to the studies you're referring to so we can take a look at them thanks!1 -
crzycatlady1 wrote: »
So how do you explain all the people who eat GMO foods and aren't overweight or obese, and are in good health?
Also, can you post links to the studies you're referring to so we can take a look at them thanks!
I don't believe it affects everyone, as I do believe genetics are involved as well. Here are some articles on the studies if you want to read up on it:
prevention.com/food/healthy-eating-tips/gmo-foods-linked-weight-gain
naturalsociety.com/how-gmo-foods-feed-junk-food-profits-not-the-world/
sciencenordic.com/growing-fatter-gm-diet
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3133759/1
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