Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
NYT article about obesity stating it's genetic, not lack of willpower
Options
Replies
-
BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
@BrunetteRunner87 weight gain is seldom a will power factor in my view. For some physical/mental reason we over eat. Often due to failing health for some reason we may eat more to get more energy or comfort.
The first step to lose weight may best be to learn the physical/mental reason we over eat.2 -
-
GaleHawkins wrote: »BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
@BrunetteRunner87 weight gain is seldom a will power factor in my view. For some physical/mental reason we over eat. Often due to failing health for some reason we may eat more to get more energy or comfort.
The first step to lose weight may best be to learn the physical/mental reason we over eat.
How many of the 66% of the US population that is overweight or obese do you think had failing health before getting overweight?7 -
stevencloser wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
@BrunetteRunner87 weight gain is seldom a will power factor in my view. For some physical/mental reason we over eat. Often due to failing health for some reason we may eat more to get more energy or comfort.
The first step to lose weight may best be to learn the physical/mental reason we over eat.
How many of the 66% of the US population that is overweight or obese do you think had failing health before getting overweight?
Considering the childhood obesity rates, I'm sure a good chunk of those live in bodies that have never not been fat.1 -
I read technology has advanced to the point where they can sequins genes.8 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
@BrunetteRunner87 weight gain is seldom a will power factor in my view. For some physical/mental reason we over eat. Often due to failing health for some reason we may eat more to get more energy or comfort.
The first step to lose weight may best be to learn the physical/mental reason we over eat.
How many of the 66% of the US population that is overweight or obese do you think had failing health before getting overweight?
Considering the childhood obesity rates, I'm sure a good chunk of those live in bodies that have never not been fat.
Gale's argument seems to be that people can't help overeating because their failing health makes them do it. That ignores the fact that for the most part the failing health is CAUSED by the overweight/obesity. There is no evidence that bad health causes people on average to get fat or that it is the reason for the huge increase in US obesity rate. It's that that seems to me to be an effort to say that people are not responsible for the fact they became overweight or have no control over it.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
@BrunetteRunner87 weight gain is seldom a will power factor in my view. For some physical/mental reason we over eat. Often due to failing health for some reason we may eat more to get more energy or comfort.
The first step to lose weight may best be to learn the physical/mental reason we over eat.
How many of the 66% of the US population that is overweight or obese do you think had failing health before getting overweight?
Considering the childhood obesity rates, I'm sure a good chunk of those live in bodies that have never not been fat.
Gale's argument seems to be that people can't help overeating because their failing health makes them do it. That ignores the fact that for the most part the failing health is CAUSED by the overweight/obesity. There is no evidence that bad health causes people on average to get fat or that it is the reason for the huge increase in US obesity rate. It's that that seems to me to be an effort to say that people are not responsible for the fact they became overweight or have no control over it.
Oh, I know what he was saying, and I was by no means validating it. My statement was merely point of fact to Anvil's response. I can't help but wonder if we're eventually headed for a point where obesity related diseases are just considered part of human existence, due to the fact that so many are fat as *kitten* before they even hit puberty.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Genetic predisposition doesn't put the excess calories in your mouth.
You have agency here, do you just sit back and accept your fate? I don't get this line of thinking with the genetic argument for obesity.
No one thinks that a genetically caused cancer should go untreated, but if it's obesity? Well, then it's okay!
BAM. /thread5 -
It's far more complicated than some people will believe. If you're obese or overweight, the automatic assumption by a lot of people is that you're over eating or lazy or don't care or don't make an effort to lose weight. As someone who has a (diagnosed) metabolic issue, it's a little different.
You can't just plug your numbers into one of the many calculators out there and get a TDEE and then pull 20% off of that and start losing weight. It is possible to lose weight for me with my condition, but it's extremely slow and has a severe deficit in order to happen.
I'm not lazy or uneducated or not willing to put in the hard work, but I do wish that people wouldn't paint everyone with the same brush and call it a day. You don't have to understand the challenges some people face, but you also don't have to assume that you know their story or how they might be tackling this for their body and circumstances.8 -
It's far more complicated than some people will believe. If you're obese or overweight, the automatic assumption by a lot of people is that you're over eating or lazy or don't care or don't make an effort to lose weight. As someone who has a (diagnosed) metabolic issue, it's a little different.
Those are very different things. Someone gaining fat IS more than he/she burns, but that doesn't mean he/she is lazy or doesn't make an effort or (although in a relatively small percentage of cases) doesn't have a metabolic issue that contributes and needs to be corrected.
I think many overweight people (from what I've seen both on MFP and offline) get upset if they must acknowledge that they are eating more than they burn because they presume that means "are lazy" or "are eating like a pig" and probably because there's still a stigma in the US for a lot of women about eating a lot=unfeminine or something (like we are all Scarlett O'Hara being told to eat before a party so she can pretend she eats like a bird, which seems so weirdly outdated to me). Thus, people insisting that they got fat from eating too little and the like, or who have a really hard time logging accurately (although there's more to that) or looking squarely at their eating and acknowledging that it includes too many calories. Too bad, because being honest to yourself about this typically helps people figure out that they can cut calories without having to do some kind of awful starvation diet.You can't just plug your numbers into one of the many calculators out there and get a TDEE and then pull 20% off of that and start losing weight. It is possible to lose weight for me with my condition, but it's extremely slow and has a severe deficit in order to happen.
No, you can't assume that a calculator works for you, especially since they are all over the place and, especially, the non body fat calculators tend to overestimate TDEE when someone is significantly overweight. I always recommend adjusting for results and if your TDEE seems way below what it should be bringing the detailed logs and information to a doctor. Most of the time an MFP or other honestly obtained estimate is going to allow for loss, however, especially if one adjusts. In the rare cases there's a metabolic issue that makes TDEE way low, that is important to discover and get fixed by a doctor, of course, but even in those cases people don't lose because they are overeating for their current burn. It's just that their burn needs to be adjusted (by dealing with the thyroid issue, for example), not just the eating -- and I'd say that becomes first priority.6 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
...weight gain is seldom a will power factor in my view. For some physical/mental reason we over eat. Often due to failing health for some reason we may eat more to get more energy or comfort.BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
The first step to lose weight may best be to learn the physical/mental reason we over eat.
That was true for me. My health was failing long before I gained weight. I have a few autoimmune issues, a couple of which took a few decades to figure out. My activity level dropped significantly due to pain and lack of energy, and I did eat more for energy. There's only so much coffee and sleep one can get and still get through a day.
I started gaining weight more quickly once I had insulin resistance. I ended up with reactive hypoglycemia so I had to eat every couple of hours or I was a shaky mess.
Once my health issues were addressed, weight loss was much easier. I agree that weight loss is not just about will power for everyone. Other issues need to be addressed first, whether they are genetic, mental or physical issues.1 -
It's far more complicated than some people will believe. If you're obese or overweight, the automatic assumption by a lot of people is that you're over eating or lazy or don't care or don't make an effort to lose weight. As someone who has a (diagnosed) metabolic issue, it's a little different.
You can't just plug your numbers into one of the many calculators out there and get a TDEE and then pull 20% off of that and start losing weight. It is possible to lose weight for me with my condition, but it's extremely slow and has a severe deficit in order to happen.
I'm not lazy or uneducated or not willing to put in the hard work, but I do wish that people wouldn't paint everyone with the same brush and call it a day. You don't have to understand the challenges some people face, but you also don't have to assume that you know their story or how they might be tackling this for their body and circumstances.
What's the metabolic condition you were diagnosed with?5 -
There must have been a huge genetic shift since the 1950s then! This is unprecedented in evolutionary history!8
-
The idea that it's easier for some people to gain large amounts of weight than others makes sense to me. I would consider overeating to be more of a negative experience than a positive one. It takes certain conditions for me to choose to overeat, and thankfully, those conditions are generally short lived.
I'm reminded of alcohol consumption. When I was younger and drinking played more of a role in my life, I'd see people regularly over consume. But for me, after a certain point, the idea of even one more sip of alcohol would be abhorrent. I didn't have to tell myself it was time to stop. I didn't have to exercise self control. My body did it for me. It obviously didn't work that way for everyone.6 -
-
nutmegoreo wrote: »
They make it far too easy to repeatedly pick up Snackwells. Do they even still make those, or did they die when people realized low-fat was dumb?0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »
They make it far too easy to repeatedly pick up Snackwells. Do they even still make those, or did they die when people realized low-fat was dumb?
No, they're still around. Saw them on the end cap at the grocery store this weekend.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »
They make it far too easy to repeatedly pick up Snackwells. Do they even still make those, or did they die when people realized low-fat was dumb?
No, they're still around. Saw them on the end cap at the grocery store this weekend.
Well, it's good to see that the Atkin's bar's equally ugly older sibling is still around.1
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.6K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 916 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions