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NYT article about obesity stating it's genetic, not lack of willpower
Replies
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NorthCascades wrote: »I understand. I totally don't believe airplanes can fly. I mean, they're made out of metal, and metal is really heavy. Way heavier than air, for sure. The idea is ridiculous. And yet planes fly every day. Just like representative surveys can predict who will be elected. Because they work, if done properly, even if some people don't believe it.
I guess I've just see too many badly executed representative surveys to truly be able to believe in them anymore. It doesn't help this one's case that it was sponsored by a society who promotes bariatric surgery or the somewhat lamentable level of the article which brought it to our attention. I'm all for good packaging.
(as for the airplanes... it's magic! And I should have kept my nose out of my father's aerodynamics course. It totally ruined the magic for me
) 2 -
The survey may be rubbish (I don't know), but I do get the impression that there are a lot of people who think obesity is caused by lack of willpower.0
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The survey may be rubbish (I don't know), but I do get the impression that there are a lot of people who think obesity is caused by lack of willpower.
As mentioned above, there are many factors that contribute to obesity. Culture, lifestyle, income level, education, and yes, sometimes genetic factors play a part. Obesity is not caused by a lack of willpower per se, but knowing an how to eat within your TDEE and applying that by eating less or adjusting your activity level. Obesity always comes down to consuming more calories than your body burns, which is why it ultimately comes down to personal responsibility. A genetic condition may have caused your (general you) TDEE to be a bit lower than average for your age/height/sex, but the genetic condition did not cause you to overeat.5 -
I agree with others here that it's got to be something other than genetic predisposition. Eating is highly social in humans and food culture varies tremendously, even within relatively small regions (e.g., neighborhoods). We decide what we put into our mouths.
Children learn habits from their parents, including food choice, food prep, food volume, food frequency; healthy, active lifestyle or sedentary, etc. If an overweight child's parents are obese, I would assume that the child learned how and what to eat from them.
I presume that the "hundreds of genes that can predispose to obesity" mentioned in the article are at least partly determined from studies of separated twins... but how do you know that you've accounted for family lifestyle, activity, eating habits, regional, social, economic, and cultural factors in those studies?
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Somewhat germane: my ex-wife, who was overweight, would absolutely FREAK THE *KITTEN* OUT if more than say 4 hours had passed since her last meal. Timing foods throughout the day was a tremendous source of stress -- for both of us!!! Any vacation, day trip, or the like, the first thing we had to do was figure out where, when and what to eat so that the terrible 4-hour mark would not be breached.
My point is: three squares and two snacks is a relatively modern concept. And millions (billions?) of people don't even enjoy it today. So, how would my ex have survived 500 years ago? Or in a hunter gatherer society? (Ok, enough vitriol against the ex. Lol.)
We live in a time and place of such plenty that I think our expectations have gone totally out of whack.
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The survey may be rubbish (I don't know), but I do get the impression that there are a lot of people who think obesity is caused by lack of willpower.
I don't think lack of willpower is necessarily the cause, but willpower is necessary to do something about it should you choose to start prioritizing your health.9 -
My point wasn't really about whether there are other causes of obesity, but about whether the general gist of the article might be correct (that people tend to attribute obesity to lack of willpower). I've certainly heard people talk as if they're making this assumption. So yes, the survey may have uncovered something true about how people think about obesity.2
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The survey may be rubbish (I don't know), but I do get the impression that there are a lot of people who think obesity is caused by lack of willpower.
Every time I've gotten fat, it's been 100% because of a lack of willpower/motivation. It's when I enjoy being lazy and eating whatever I want (and as much as I want) more than I enjoy working out and keeping a caloric deficit. I know enough about the principles of nutrition and exercise to attain/maintain a healthy weight - when I go off the rails it's not that I suddenly lost the knowledge, or that my genetics suddenly took a hard right turn. It's simply that I got lazy and lacked the motivation to do anything about it.
I refuse to take the easy way out and blame it on genetics, or the environment, or the accessibility of fast food, or the serving sizes in restaurants or whatever other bogeyman. I got fat because I wasn't willing to do what I needed to do to change it.27 -
It's because we are eating more meat then back in the 70's.
I kid I kid!
I tend to lean towards poor decision making because food doesn't fly into our mouths, we have to make that decision to eat it. But that would be a little to simple because there so much misinformation out there it becomes confusing as to what to do. There are too many "rules" by "experts" and almost zero information on how to keep the weight off.
There's my sophomoric stab at it.4 -
The survey may be rubbish (I don't know), but I do get the impression that there are a lot of people who think obesity is caused by lack of willpower.
Every time I've gotten fat, it's been 100% because of a lack of willpower/motivation. It's when I enjoy being lazy and eating whatever I want (and as much as I want) more than I enjoy working out and keeping a caloric deficit. I know enough about the principles of nutrition and exercise to attain/maintain a healthy weight - when I go off the rails it's not that I suddenly lost the knowledge, or that my genetics suddenly took a hard right turn. It's simply that I got lazy and lacked the motivation to do anything about it.
I refuse to take the easy way out and blame it on genetics, or the environment, or the accessibility of fast food, or the serving sizes in restaurants or whatever other bogeyman. I got fat because I wasn't willing to do what I needed to do to change it.
Not me. When I got fat it was genetics/my wife/the dogs fault. When I lose weight, it's all me because I have such great willpower, knowledge and am just an all around brilliant guy.32 -
Science journalism at its worst. I saw this link in another thread and laughed at multitude of design errors in the experiment. Peer review is not what it once was.
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This article read like an advertisement for bariatric surgery. What valid points may be had were lost in the shameless self-promotion.9
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Any chance there is a link to it that doesn't require signing up?0
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Somewhat germane: my ex-wife, who was overweight, would absolutely FREAK THE *KITTEN* OUT if more than say 4 hours had passed since her last meal. Timing foods throughout the day was a tremendous source of stress -- for both of us!!! Any vacation, day trip, or the like, the first thing we had to do was figure out where, when and what to eat so that the terrible 4-hour mark would not be breached.
My point is: three squares and two snacks is a relatively modern concept. And millions (billions?) of people don't even enjoy it today. So, how would my ex have survived 500 years ago? Or in a hunter gatherer society? (Ok, enough vitriol against the ex. Lol.)
We live in a time and place of such plenty that I think our expectations have gone totally out of whack.
So very true.0 -
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The survey may be rubbish (I don't know), but I do get the impression that there are a lot of people who think obesity is caused by lack of willpower.
Every time I've gotten fat, it's been 100% because of a lack of willpower/motivation. It's when I enjoy being lazy and eating whatever I want (and as much as I want) more than I enjoy working out and keeping a caloric deficit. I know enough about the principles of nutrition and exercise to attain/maintain a healthy weight - when I go off the rails it's not that I suddenly lost the knowledge, or that my genetics suddenly took a hard right turn. It's simply that I got lazy and lacked the motivation to do anything about it.
I refuse to take the easy way out and blame it on genetics, or the environment, or the accessibility of fast food, or the serving sizes in restaurants or whatever other bogeyman. I got fat because I wasn't willing to do what I needed to do to change it.
This is what separates the successful and the unsuccessful.3 -
I don't remember where I heard it, but the simplest explanation for the term "genetic predisposition" I've heard is "genetics loads the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger."16
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When I was young and overweight with an overweight mother and a healthy weight father I learned about Mendelian genetics and, darn the bad luck, was the 25% of their offspring to have inherited the fat trait.
However I must say that knowledge really is power and the suite of knowledge tools available with mfp have given me the power to eat a nutritious, balanced, sufficient amount of food. It is sufficient to preserve life, but not sufficient to maintain excess weight. That's really and truly all that matters.
The Times' story is the finding of the futility of diet and exercise as found by, Shazam! the advocacy organization for bariatric surgeons. One wonders if the skepticism due that is given.4 -
I think you are overreaching what was said.
You are interpreting it to mean that genetics is everything. It's a contributor.
If it is everything, why haven't we always been as fat as we are now?3 -
BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
The article isn't all that great IMO...and a survey of a handful of people isn't going to really convince me of anything...but beyond that it talks about genetics being a factor...it also mentions environment but they don't really hone in on that with the article...likely because it doesn't have much of a sensationalized "wow" factor.
If genetics was a truly key component we would not have seen the kind of uptick in obesity that we've seen over the past 20-30 years...reality is that it's just one of many components...personally, I think environment plays a much larger roll. Cheap, low quality high calorie foods are abundant and very easy to eat in excess...people eat out more now than ever and portions are huge...people go around drinking 40 oz fountain drinks (though I think soda consumption is on the decline)...education is abysmal...people are more sedentary, etc, etc.
These kinds of things better explain the prevalence of obesity in the last 20-30 years more so than genetics....
You also have to be careful with articles like this...most often, journalist misinterpret the actual science or they cherry pick certain things to "spice things up"...3 -
Funny how people went all sideways when the article in Time magazine came out about "How the Sugar Industry Shaped Heart Disease Research", but nobody bats an eye about how bariatric surgeons "shaped" the research regarding fat being genetic.
I understand how research is funded (and why), and while it can be amusing to see the funding sources, it doesn't immediately cement my opinion about the research itself. But the "research" being discussed in this thread is such a sham that it's laughable. They would actually have to try pretty hard to make it any more UN-scientific.11 -
JeromeBarry1 wrote: »When I was young and overweight with an overweight mother and a healthy weight father I learned about Mendelian genetics and, darn the bad luck, was the 25% of their offspring to have inherited the fat trait.
However I must say that knowledge really is power and the suite of knowledge tools available with mfp have given me the power to eat a nutritious, balanced, sufficient amount of food. It is sufficient to preserve life, but not sufficient to maintain excess weight. That's really and truly all that matters.
The Times' story is the finding of the futility of diet and exercise as found by, Shazam! the advocacy organization for bariatric surgeons. One wonders if the skepticism due that is given.
So, inherited traits that follow Mendelian genetics are pretty easy to suss out. With the current state of genomics, if the 'fat trait', assuming there is such a thing, follows a Mendelian inheritance pattern it would have been identified by now. Even if there are multiple such traits resulting in a single phenotype. I say this because we've been able to identify the specific causative mutations for extremely rare genetic disorders that have that kind of inheritance pattern even with instances of incomplete penetrance complicating matters.4 -
This research was sponsored by a medical association that does surgery for weight loss. I'm going to bet these people in the study are the super duper morbidly obese. (ie have a horrible relationship with food and probably need some psychological counseling before attempting to lose large amounts of weight. And the patients of these Doctors probably do not need to approach weight loss alone. Weight loss is a daunting task, especially if you have so much to lose it would take you two years to lose it at a fast pace.
That being saidThere are hundreds of genes that can predispose to obesity in an environment where food is cheap and portions are abundant.
We absolutely are genetically predisposed to store excess calories as fat in preparation of famine.
When we introduce a "famine" scenario (ie reduced calories) our brain is hardwired to eat/consume high caloric items because technically it doesn't know when we will eat again. If you use food for anything other than an energy source then it is possible that under the right conditions anyone could fall prey to our biologic instincts. The key is knowing your weaknesses and creating habits (which is difficult) and plans for combatting those weaknesses so when life does change you're better equiped to handle them.
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I think some people are missing the point (the title is misleading). It looks like the survey didn't exam the cause of obesity, but people's beliefs about obesity.
(And there has been a correction since I last looked, to two fairly major points).6 -
The survey may be rubbish (I don't know), but I do get the impression that there are a lot of people who think obesity is caused by lack of willpower.
Every time I've gotten fat, it's been 100% because of a lack of willpower/motivation. It's when I enjoy being lazy and eating whatever I want (and as much as I want) more than I enjoy working out and keeping a caloric deficit. I know enough about the principles of nutrition and exercise to attain/maintain a healthy weight - when I go off the rails it's not that I suddenly lost the knowledge, or that my genetics suddenly took a hard right turn. It's simply that I got lazy and lacked the motivation to do anything about it.
I refuse to take the easy way out and blame it on genetics, or the environment, or the accessibility of fast food, or the serving sizes in restaurants or whatever other bogeyman. I got fat because I wasn't willing to do what I needed to do to change it.
ditto ditto ditto
I knew that I shouldn't eat more of those pringles or another piece of cake, but I didn't care. I knew that I should be exercising, but I didn't care. I had the knowledge, I just didn't have the willpower.
Recognizing that my weight gain was all my fault was the most empowering experience in my life. It gave me the drive and willpower to lose the weight.11 -
SingRunTing wrote: »The survey may be rubbish (I don't know), but I do get the impression that there are a lot of people who think obesity is caused by lack of willpower.
Every time I've gotten fat, it's been 100% because of a lack of willpower/motivation. It's when I enjoy being lazy and eating whatever I want (and as much as I want) more than I enjoy working out and keeping a caloric deficit. I know enough about the principles of nutrition and exercise to attain/maintain a healthy weight - when I go off the rails it's not that I suddenly lost the knowledge, or that my genetics suddenly took a hard right turn. It's simply that I got lazy and lacked the motivation to do anything about it.
I refuse to take the easy way out and blame it on genetics, or the environment, or the accessibility of fast food, or the serving sizes in restaurants or whatever other bogeyman. I got fat because I wasn't willing to do what I needed to do to change it.
ditto ditto ditto
I knew that I shouldn't eat more of those pringles or another piece of cake, but I didn't care. I knew that I should be exercising, but I didn't care. I had the knowledge, I just didn't have the willpower.
Recognizing that my weight gain was all my fault was the most empowering experience in my life. It gave me the drive and willpower to lose the weight.
Congratulations! This is the first step - unfortunately not one most are willing to admit.4 -
There are SOME genetics involved, but i TRULY believe it is mostly lifestyle.2
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I can see where genetics plays a part, but we all have choices when we put food in our mouths, or when we decide to get up and move our bodies.3
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Many have pointed this out already, but...come on, NYT loses whatever credibility it has when it reports this *kitten*. I mean, come on;
"Dr. Raul J. Rosenthal, the president of the bariatric surgery society that funded the study, found this persistent belief in the power of diet and exercise hard to understand."
Of course it's "hard to understand", your livelihood literally depends on people believing they are genetically incapable of losing the weight on their own without surgical intervention. That's ludicrous.
In my view it's beyond irresponsible to tell people they can't control their own bodies. That's only going to make the obesity "epidemic" worse, and continue to drive up healthcare costs as more people opt for surgery when they don't need it.
Telling a person they don't have the genetic makeup to become an Olympic cyclist is one thing; telling them they will remain obese forever in spite of any effort to eat according to what their bodies need is another thing entirely.14 -
I think a lot of obesity is due to genetic factors caused by millions of years of evolution during times of feast and famine, combined with modern society where the famine never arrives. An adaptive behavior to keep us alive when food supply was insecure is now maladaptive.
Does that mean you can't lose weight? Of course not. You can be predisposed to obesity, and it may well mean it's more work to lose weight and easier to regain compared to someone not predisposed, but it's hardly impossible.
Some people may be genetically predisposed to alcoholism, to anger, etc., but it doesn't mean they can't possibly control themselves. It may be harder for them, but it can be done.6
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