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Ketogenic overfeeding n=1 experiment by Wittrock
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baconslave wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »I guess people will say this guy is lying too if the outcome doesn't fit their world view.
I guess all the low carbes will latch on to his outcome as undeniable truth, no matter the unscientificness of the whole thing as compared to actual science. But of course only if it fits in their world view.
Not this low-carb. My reality and experience has told me calories matter. That is why I am still even logging constantly and in this forum lurking around.
I predict *kitten* is going to get real, and he'll start gaining within the next week. Right now his metabolism is doing damage control like it is supposed to. He's already having a damn hard time continuing to eat that much. Plus, I suspect the bathroom effect is kicking in, like I mentioned before, due to all the oil, and he's dropped water as a result. And we don't know how much more he's doing at the gym, as I suspect he's probably doing more subconsciously due to the increased energy available.
And like psuLemon said, how accurate was he about his maintenance threshold?
It's not going to be gospel, at least not for people that have any sense.
This is my guess too. He's due for a bit of a bump upwards. I wouldn't be surprised if he passes 150 next week.
If his maintenance was 3K, he should be gaining 2 lbs per week. On average. I doubt he'll hit 152 by day 14, but you never know. I completely agree that calories matter. They just aren't everything. How much it matters is going to vary a lot between people.
You know what I think would be a lot of fun would be to get proponents/ personalities of various diets and have them eat each other's diets for a month, and then their own. Like freelee banana girl and Rob Wolff (paleo) or Jimmy Moore and Pritkin. LOL Have bod pods, measurements, and blood work done before and after each diet. I'd like to watch that.
Yeah, that would be highly amusing.
My bet is there would be blood at some point.1 -
baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »I guess people will say this guy is lying too if the outcome doesn't fit their world view.
I guess all the low carbes will latch on to his outcome as undeniable truth, no matter the unscientificness of the whole thing as compared to actual science. But of course only if it fits in their world view.
Not this low-carb. My reality and experience has told me calories matter. That is why I am still even logging constantly and in this forum lurking around.
I predict *kitten* is going to get real, and he'll start gaining within the next week. Right now his metabolism is doing damage control like it is supposed to. He's already having a damn hard time continuing to eat that much. Plus, I suspect the bathroom effect is kicking in, like I mentioned before, due to all the oil, and he's dropped water as a result. And we don't know how much more he's doing at the gym, as I suspect he's probably doing more subconsciously due to the increased energy available.
And like psuLemon said, how accurate was he about his maintenance threshold?
It's not going to be gospel, at least not for people that have any sense.
This is my guess too. He's due for a bit of a bump upwards. I wouldn't be surprised if he passes 150 next week.
If his maintenance was 3K, he should be gaining 2 lbs per week. On average. I doubt he'll hit 152 by day 14, but you never know. I completely agree that calories matter. They just aren't everything. How much it matters is going to vary a lot between people.
You know what I think would be a lot of fun would be to get proponents/ personalities of various diets and have them eat each other's diets for a month, and then their own. Like freelee banana girl and Rob Wolff (paleo) or Jimmy Moore and Pritkin. LOL Have bod pods, measurements, and blood work done before and after each diet. I'd like to watch that.
Yeah, that would be highly amusing.
My bet is there would be blood at some point.
It would only be worth watching if at the end, they were forced into a prisoner's dilemma scenario, and it were broadcast to the world.3 -
baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »I guess people will say this guy is lying too if the outcome doesn't fit their world view.
I guess all the low carbes will latch on to his outcome as undeniable truth, no matter the unscientificness of the whole thing as compared to actual science. But of course only if it fits in their world view.
Not this low-carb. My reality and experience has told me calories matter. That is why I am still even logging constantly and in this forum lurking around.
I predict *kitten* is going to get real, and he'll start gaining within the next week. Right now his metabolism is doing damage control like it is supposed to. He's already having a damn hard time continuing to eat that much. Plus, I suspect the bathroom effect is kicking in, like I mentioned before, due to all the oil, and he's dropped water as a result. And we don't know how much more he's doing at the gym, as I suspect he's probably doing more subconsciously due to the increased energy available.
And like psuLemon said, how accurate was he about his maintenance threshold?
It's not going to be gospel, at least not for people that have any sense.
This is my guess too. He's due for a bit of a bump upwards. I wouldn't be surprised if he passes 150 next week.
If his maintenance was 3K, he should be gaining 2 lbs per week. On average. I doubt he'll hit 152 by day 14, but you never know. I completely agree that calories matter. They just aren't everything. How much it matters is going to vary a lot between people.
You know what I think would be a lot of fun would be to get proponents/ personalities of various diets and have them eat each other's diets for a month, and then their own. Like freelee banana girl and Rob Wolff (paleo) or Jimmy Moore and Pritkin. LOL Have bod pods, measurements, and blood work done before and after each diet. I'd like to watch that.
Yeah, that would be highly amusing.
My bet is there would be blood at some point.
LOL No kidding!
Sooo, apparently Wittrock's sponsors encouraged him to take down his day 9 video so their thoughts on his lipid panel would not be construed as medical advice. I think he got spanked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkya7FKK5-M
I think his total cholesterol was 226. HDL was about 79. I think triglycerides were 86. I don't remember his LDL - I put very little stock in LDL so it didn't register for me.
His hs-crp was <0.2. A great number.0 -
Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »BTW is it just me or does he eat very little actual food to get to his 4K. I'd be having much more fun getting there I think.
I chuckled at this and yes, I was thinking the same.
My point of reference is that I eat what most would call a "Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diet" (for a neurological movement disorder) and currently N=1 is The MCT Oil Diet so am sucking down, at minimum, 390 calories of my total 1500 in MCT Oil and tend to eat a lot of avocados. Not much bacon and cheese cuz too much protein for my protocol and most "true" (non-tweaked) ketogenic diets.
I can think of a whole host of things I'd rather be eating than MCT Oil and avocados.
1 -
Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »BTW is it just me or does he eat very little actual food to get to his 4K. I'd be having much more fun getting there I think.
I chuckled at this and yes, I was thinking the same.
My point of reference is that I eat what most would call a "Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diet" (for a neurological movement disorder) and currently N=1 is The MCT Oil Diet so am sucking down, at minimum, 390 calories of my total 1500 in MCT Oil and tend to eat a lot of avocados. Not much bacon and cheese cuz too much protein for my protocol and most "true" (non-tweaked) ketogenic diets.
I can think of a whole host of things I'd rather be eating than MCT Oil and avocados.
Yes! He really doesn't know how to overeat "properly".
3 -
Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »BTW is it just me or does he eat very little actual food to get to his 4K. I'd be having much more fun getting there I think.
I chuckled at this and yes, I was thinking the same.
My point of reference is that I eat what most would call a "Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diet" (for a neurological movement disorder) and currently N=1 is The MCT Oil Diet so am sucking down, at minimum, 390 calories of my total 1500 in MCT Oil and tend to eat a lot of avocados. Not much bacon and cheese cuz too much protein for my protocol and most "true" (non-tweaked) ketogenic diets.
I can think of a whole host of things I'd rather be eating than MCT Oil and avocados.
Yes! He really doesn't know how to overeat "properly".
He certainly doesn't eat that much. Hell, my low carb breakfast would kill his. I am pretty sure I could pound down 4000 calories... my hardest thing would be to keep protein less than 175g.3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »I guess people will say this guy is lying too if the outcome doesn't fit their world view.
I guess all the low carbes will latch on to his outcome as undeniable truth, no matter the unscientificness of the whole thing as compared to actual science. But of course only if it fits in their world view.
Not this low-carb. My reality and experience has told me calories matter. That is why I am still even logging constantly and in this forum lurking around.
I predict *kitten* is going to get real, and he'll start gaining within the next week. Right now his metabolism is doing damage control like it is supposed to. He's already having a damn hard time continuing to eat that much. Plus, I suspect the bathroom effect is kicking in, like I mentioned before, due to all the oil, and he's dropped water as a result. And we don't know how much more he's doing at the gym, as I suspect he's probably doing more subconsciously due to the increased energy available.
And like psuLemon said, how accurate was he about his maintenance threshold?
It's not going to be gospel, at least not for people that have any sense.
This is my guess too. He's due for a bit of a bump upwards. I wouldn't be surprised if he passes 150 next week.
If his maintenance was 3K, he should be gaining 2 lbs per week. On average. I doubt he'll hit 152 by day 14, but you never know. I completely agree that calories matter. They just aren't everything. How much it matters is going to vary a lot between people.
You know what I think would be a lot of fun would be to get proponents/ personalities of various diets and have them eat each other's diets for a month, and then their own. Like freelee banana girl and Rob Wolff (paleo) or Jimmy Moore and Pritkin. LOL Have bod pods, measurements, and blood work done before and after each diet. I'd like to watch that.
Yeah, that would be highly amusing.
My bet is there would be blood at some point.
It would only be worth watching if at the end, they were forced into a prisoner's dilemma scenario, and it were broadcast to the world.
I think they should put them alone together in a room with a shank after they each had 7 days of the other's diet.
baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »I guess people will say this guy is lying too if the outcome doesn't fit their world view.
I guess all the low carbes will latch on to his outcome as undeniable truth, no matter the unscientificness of the whole thing as compared to actual science. But of course only if it fits in their world view.
Not this low-carb. My reality and experience has told me calories matter. That is why I am still even logging constantly and in this forum lurking around.
I predict *kitten* is going to get real, and he'll start gaining within the next week. Right now his metabolism is doing damage control like it is supposed to. He's already having a damn hard time continuing to eat that much. Plus, I suspect the bathroom effect is kicking in, like I mentioned before, due to all the oil, and he's dropped water as a result. And we don't know how much more he's doing at the gym, as I suspect he's probably doing more subconsciously due to the increased energy available.
And like psuLemon said, how accurate was he about his maintenance threshold?
It's not going to be gospel, at least not for people that have any sense.
This is my guess too. He's due for a bit of a bump upwards. I wouldn't be surprised if he passes 150 next week.
If his maintenance was 3K, he should be gaining 2 lbs per week. On average. I doubt he'll hit 152 by day 14, but you never know. I completely agree that calories matter. They just aren't everything. How much it matters is going to vary a lot between people.
You know what I think would be a lot of fun would be to get proponents/ personalities of various diets and have them eat each other's diets for a month, and then their own. Like freelee banana girl and Rob Wolff (paleo) or Jimmy Moore and Pritkin. LOL Have bod pods, measurements, and blood work done before and after each diet. I'd like to watch that.
Yeah, that would be highly amusing.
My bet is there would be blood at some point.
LOL No kidding!
Sooo, apparently Wittrock's sponsors encouraged him to take down his day 9 video so their thoughts on his lipid panel would not be construed as medical advice. I think he got spanked.
Yep. That's what I think.
0 -
Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »BTW is it just me or does he eat very little actual food to get to his 4K. I'd be having much more fun getting there I think.
I chuckled at this and yes, I was thinking the same.
My point of reference is that I eat what most would call a "Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diet" (for a neurological movement disorder) and currently N=1 is The MCT Oil Diet so am sucking down, at minimum, 390 calories of my total 1500 in MCT Oil and tend to eat a lot of avocados. Not much bacon and cheese cuz too much protein for my protocol and most "true" (non-tweaked) ketogenic diets.
I can think of a whole host of things I'd rather be eating than MCT Oil and avocados.
Yes! He really doesn't know how to overeat "properly".
He certainly doesn't eat that much. Hell, my low carb breakfast would kill his. I am pretty sure I could pound down 4000 calories... my hardest thing would be to keep protein less than 175g.
I did my own version of a BPC for awhile, I would puke drinking what he does in his. And though I really like avocados, would hate them forever after this.1 -
baconslave wrote: »Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »BTW is it just me or does he eat very little actual food to get to his 4K. I'd be having much more fun getting there I think.
I chuckled at this and yes, I was thinking the same.
My point of reference is that I eat what most would call a "Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diet" (for a neurological movement disorder) and currently N=1 is The MCT Oil Diet so am sucking down, at minimum, 390 calories of my total 1500 in MCT Oil and tend to eat a lot of avocados. Not much bacon and cheese cuz too much protein for my protocol and most "true" (non-tweaked) ketogenic diets.
I can think of a whole host of things I'd rather be eating than MCT Oil and avocados.
Yes! He really doesn't know how to overeat "properly".
He certainly doesn't eat that much. Hell, my low carb breakfast would kill his. I am pretty sure I could pound down 4000 calories... my hardest thing would be to keep protein less than 175g.
I did my own version of a BPC for awhile, I would puke drinking what he does in his. And though I really like avocados, would hate them forever after this.
I like avocado more as guacamole. I could eat it all day long.2 -
baconslave wrote: »Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »BTW is it just me or does he eat very little actual food to get to his 4K. I'd be having much more fun getting there I think.
I chuckled at this and yes, I was thinking the same.
My point of reference is that I eat what most would call a "Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diet" (for a neurological movement disorder) and currently N=1 is The MCT Oil Diet so am sucking down, at minimum, 390 calories of my total 1500 in MCT Oil and tend to eat a lot of avocados. Not much bacon and cheese cuz too much protein for my protocol and most "true" (non-tweaked) ketogenic diets.
I can think of a whole host of things I'd rather be eating than MCT Oil and avocados.
Yes! He really doesn't know how to overeat "properly".
He certainly doesn't eat that much. Hell, my low carb breakfast would kill his. I am pretty sure I could pound down 4000 calories... my hardest thing would be to keep protein less than 175g.
I did my own version of a BPC for awhile, I would puke drinking what he does in his. And though I really like avocados, would hate them forever after this.
I like avocado more as guacamole. I could eat it all day long.
Avocado as mousse is good too. Add some cocoa powder, or chocolate protein powder, a few drops of stevia, maybe vanilla, and possibly some melted butter, coconut oil or whipping cream if it is too dry. Great dessert. I imagine his mousse is probably similar.
You could always use vanilla protein powder too if you don't mind the green. 2 -
baconslave wrote: »Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »BTW is it just me or does he eat very little actual food to get to his 4K. I'd be having much more fun getting there I think.
I chuckled at this and yes, I was thinking the same.
My point of reference is that I eat what most would call a "Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diet" (for a neurological movement disorder) and currently N=1 is The MCT Oil Diet so am sucking down, at minimum, 390 calories of my total 1500 in MCT Oil and tend to eat a lot of avocados. Not much bacon and cheese cuz too much protein for my protocol and most "true" (non-tweaked) ketogenic diets.
I can think of a whole host of things I'd rather be eating than MCT Oil and avocados.
Yes! He really doesn't know how to overeat "properly".
He certainly doesn't eat that much. Hell, my low carb breakfast would kill his. I am pretty sure I could pound down 4000 calories... my hardest thing would be to keep protein less than 175g.
I did my own version of a BPC for awhile, I would puke drinking what he does in his. And though I really like avocados, would hate them forever after this.
His BPC would have me in the bathroom way too often. Not the way I'd want to lose weight.
My BPC usually does not involve more than a teaspoon of coconut oil. If that.
Whipping cream on the other hand... A latte with whipped cream? Yeah. I could do that every day... some cinnamon and nutmeg on top. Mmm.4 -
baconslave wrote: »Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »BTW is it just me or does he eat very little actual food to get to his 4K. I'd be having much more fun getting there I think.
I chuckled at this and yes, I was thinking the same.
My point of reference is that I eat what most would call a "Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diet" (for a neurological movement disorder) and currently N=1 is The MCT Oil Diet so am sucking down, at minimum, 390 calories of my total 1500 in MCT Oil and tend to eat a lot of avocados. Not much bacon and cheese cuz too much protein for my protocol and most "true" (non-tweaked) ketogenic diets.
I can think of a whole host of things I'd rather be eating than MCT Oil and avocados.
Yes! He really doesn't know how to overeat "properly".
He certainly doesn't eat that much. Hell, my low carb breakfast would kill his. I am pretty sure I could pound down 4000 calories... my hardest thing would be to keep protein less than 175g.
I did my own version of a BPC for awhile, I would puke drinking what he does in his. And though I really like avocados, would hate them forever after this.
I like avocado more as guacamole. I could eat it all day long.
Avocado as mousse is good too. Add some cocoa powder, or chocolate protein powder, a few drops of stevia, maybe vanilla, and possibly some melted butter, coconut oil or whipping cream if it is too dry. Great dessert. I imagine his mousse is probably similar.
You could always use vanilla protein powder too if you don't mind the green.
I've been having a avocado mousse smoothie for the past week. Low-carb and delicious. Except mine is a Reece's smoothie with choc and PB. Plain yogurt (or cottage cheese), avocado, almond milk, cocoa powder, PB, ice cubes, and Truvia. I never get tired of it.
I don't do HWC in the coffee anymore b/c calories but I love that stuff.2 -
baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »Hawaiian_Iceberg wrote: »BTW is it just me or does he eat very little actual food to get to his 4K. I'd be having much more fun getting there I think.
I chuckled at this and yes, I was thinking the same.
My point of reference is that I eat what most would call a "Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diet" (for a neurological movement disorder) and currently N=1 is The MCT Oil Diet so am sucking down, at minimum, 390 calories of my total 1500 in MCT Oil and tend to eat a lot of avocados. Not much bacon and cheese cuz too much protein for my protocol and most "true" (non-tweaked) ketogenic diets.
I can think of a whole host of things I'd rather be eating than MCT Oil and avocados.
Yes! He really doesn't know how to overeat "properly".
He certainly doesn't eat that much. Hell, my low carb breakfast would kill his. I am pretty sure I could pound down 4000 calories... my hardest thing would be to keep protein less than 175g.
I did my own version of a BPC for awhile, I would puke drinking what he does in his. And though I really like avocados, would hate them forever after this.
I like avocado more as guacamole. I could eat it all day long.
Avocado as mousse is good too. Add some cocoa powder, or chocolate protein powder, a few drops of stevia, maybe vanilla, and possibly some melted butter, coconut oil or whipping cream if it is too dry. Great dessert. I imagine his mousse is probably similar.
You could always use vanilla protein powder too if you don't mind the green.
I've been having a avocado mousse smoothie for the past week. Low-carb and delicious. Except mine is a Reece's smoothie with choc and PB. Plain yogurt (or cottage cheese), avocado, almond milk, cocoa powder, PB, ice cubes, and Truvia. I never get tired of it.
I don't do HWC in the coffee anymore b/c calories but I love that stuff.
I NEVER think to add peanut butter... what's wrong with me?! That sounds yum.2 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »As for nuts, I've had a rough week - ate more than 2 lbs. of various nuts in the last 3 days - Brazil nuts, walnuts, and pecans. If it is true, perhaps my gain won't be as bad as expected from based on calories alone.
@midwesterner85 I guess you could potentially ignore 75% of the nuts' calories. Did it have any effect on your insulin needs for your high nut meals? 25% less insulin used? I'm curious.
No, in fact the nuts seemed to make me need even more insulin than what would have been expected; though it is tough to say because I ate other things around the same time.
Hmm. Maybe you are like me and tend to take more nuts than you had planned.
This week I bought bulk nuts, so since I paid by weight, I know exactly how much I had. The issue is I also ate other foods at about the same time, which are likely the culprit.1 -
So what is the likelihood, that a 5'7, 147 (as of day 9), extremely fit male who exercises almost daily (depending on how he feels), with a young child, and is metabolically healthy actually maintains at 2000 calories?
As you say needs measurement really. BMR of 1500-1600 isn't inconceivable but 2000 for maintenance sounds a squeeze.
1 -
Following Wittrock's videos and progress is like watching an intriguing thriller movie unfold.
I really do need to get a life!
3 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Following Wittrock's videos and progress is like watching an intriguing thriller movie unfold.
I really do need to get a life!
I'm with ya. Day 10 is up!3 -
So what is the likelihood, that a 5'7, 147 (as of day 9), extremely fit male who exercises almost daily (depending on how he feels), with a young child, and is metabolically healthy actually maintains at 2000 calories?
As you say needs measurement really. BMR of 1500-1600 isn't inconceivable but 2000 for maintenance sounds a squeeze.
Running Katch McArdle, it would put his BMR around 1744. Even sedentary would put him close to 2100 calories. Add in exercise and any other NEAT activities, and at the very least, I would think closer to 2500 or more.1 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Following Wittrock's videos and progress is like watching an intriguing thriller movie unfold.
I really do need to get a life!
I'm with ya. Day 10 is up!
Wow... he ate 414 g of fat. In one day. That's just... Wow.
And only 45 g of protein. I wonder how that will affect things?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVZGgM8PeFc 0
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