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Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?
Replies
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »mom23mangos wrote: »I think the analogy with aging keeps getting brought up because several of the people who said they would leave an overweight spouse said they would not leave an aging spouse. What sets some people off is that if I were ask most of you in your 20's, are you physically attracted to that lean, thinning hair, active, wrinkly 80yr old, most people would say no. However, if that is your spouse you have grown old with and you yourself are approaching 80, your answer would probably be yes.
I think that's why so many people have a hard time wrapping their head around some posters inability to even imagine that they might still be physically attracted to a partner who has physically changed (including weight gain) slowly over the decades. When if you would show them a picture of a stranger, they would absolutely say no, I'm not attracted to someone who looks like that.
I think the argument has been that aging (and certain physical changes due to it) are inevitable, but weight gain is not.
However, I agree with you 100%! And good luck to the 20-something who thinks they will defy gravity and stay hot forever :laugh:
But that argument doesn't hold up if changing appearance is such an important metric that it's a deal-breaker, as some posters are mentioning.
There is a difference in changing appearance because of aging
For YOU, yes. But it's not hard to imagine someone saying that he (or she) just isn't into older women (or men), nothing personal, but he (she) just isn't interested in sex anymore.
Unless you are going to say that it's not about losing attraction but about whether you consider the reasons for losing attraction to a loved one justified, I don't see how it's actually different.
(I will say that I personally would distinguish between reasons for losing attraction.)2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
This gets to the heart of it. Many here are pretending that those of us who would not be in a relationship with an obese person would dump our SO without warning if their weight hits a certain number. That's not the case (and I can't imagine what kind of relationships they're in that would make them come to that conclusion).
I'm a relatively active, fit person. Unless my SO is handicapped in some way, I expect her to be as well - this is something we've shared since the beginning, and that's valuable to me. I haven't pretended otherwise.
One doesn't go from fit to obese overnight. If she chooses obesity, there will be a long transitional period where we'll communicate about our thoughts, desires, and expectations, just as we have throughout the rest of our relationship.
We don't have kids, so if we choose to go our separate ways, that's fine. That's what adults who grow apart should do.
People here have also made some hay over my weight and whether I'm actually a reasonably fit person because at one point I was overweight.
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
I didn't say you were unfit. That wasn't the point at all. I'd be interested in you responding to the actual point.
I ran a marathon at 145, which is overweight at my height. Could have have run it faster if thinner? I am sure, but I ran it around 4:30, which is respectable enough for a first timer who didn't train that consistently, which was me at the time.
Being overweight does not mean that you can't do physical activities. Does being a certain amount overweight mean that? Sure, of course. But your drawing the line at 25 and then saying it's because the person would have stopped being who you fell in love with or changed so much or no longer can share interests doesn't make sense, and that's part of why I pointed out that you were talking about a weight you were not so long ago.
Being overweight is, as you yourself stated, a performance limiter.
Being over 25 doesn't prevent someone from being extremely fit and active. I haven't yet broken my 145 lb time in the marathon and I'm certainly fit and active now, after all.As for the rest of your comment, you've clearly missed the previous times I have explained in this thread that it is not some binary switch that is on at 24.9999999 and off at 25.0. It's a progressive less and less attractive as the BMI gets up to the overweight range (barring some very fit low body fat lifters I've seen) and then it just becomes a hard "No."
I have acknowledged that several times -- you said you'd say something when the person started gaining (5 lbs or so), say something again if the weight gain continued, and then it would be a hard no at 25 if the person did not fix in in a month or two (with 24 being really quite a warning sign).
I don't see how this is inconsistent with my comments at all.And yep, a while ago, I was fat and unattractive. I fixed the problem and am working on getting even more fit and attractive. So no, you didn't find some mother lode of hypocrisy.
Again, you were barely below 25 as of last month. You are still losing, great. You are 100% convinced that no matter what happens you will never be overweight again and are angry with yourself for having been overweight and feel unforgiving of yourself and are expanding that to how you would feel with a partner -- that's what I'm seeing. My point is not really about hypocrisy. But whatever.
I have never been attracted to overweight people. What is so hard to understand about that?
Also, there's no way that I will be overweight again. It's entirely with my control and down to my choice, as always. I choose not to let that happen. The rest of your psychoanalysis is completely baseless.
We can agree to disagree.
I always find it puzzling when people who have been overweight and eventually came around to figuring out that they needed to lose and doing so, often acknowledging that although other people saying something may have sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own, being really judgmental and unforgiving of others needing to go through this same process.
I also think that when you are motivated and losing weight it's often easy to see weight loss and maintenance as totally easy, regardless of the circumstances, and just a matter of caring or not (and thus becoming overweight must mean that you are being unkind to your partner). I think for people who have gained weight it's often not that easy. NOT saying that means that you must gain weight again (I don't plan to either), but it does make me feel like I would be empathetic and somewhat understanding if a partner gained weight (especially since we seem to be just talking about 15-20 lbs, potentially), for a period of time and couldn't get his head into losing it. I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who I would not be able to go through that with.
But yes, I don't think it would make me not attracted to someone I loved any more. So I don't understand that.
I'm not judging you, but I do think you are bringing in things as part of this that are not part of it -- the idea that the person would have changed personality entirely, would be doing it because of a lack of caring to you, would be behaving willfully, stuff like that.
But like I said, I'm happy to drop it.
After you drop that novel, though, right?
I'm not going to respond again on the partner topic, so say what you like.There was no "get to the place where" I could do it. I looked in the mirror and didn't like what I saw, so I changed it.
So you weren't overweight for a period of time before then?
There was no mental hurdle as you've implied rather heavily with your "sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own". It was actually incredibly simple. The whole protracted mental battle you are alluding to never happened.
Just speaking from my own experience, getting to the point where I thought I needed to change took some time in that I was fat for more than a minute and I didn't not know I was fat -- I knew what clothes I was wearing, etc.
But yes also I have been in a place (at another time -- yes, I've been fat twice, although I was thin for years in-between) where I thought I did need to lose weight but put it off for a while because my head wasn't in it, I wasn't ready for whatever reason. The mental aspect needs to be there and sometimes it is not, again IME. Maybe you won't find this, maybe you are way more perfect that those of us who have sometimes struggled, but I don't actually think you know this yet.
More to the point, there are things I don't struggle with that I know others do, and the fact that I don't doesn't mean I think that anyone who does doesn't deserve understanding. I am sensing from you -- and perhaps I am misunderstanding and if so I'd love for you to correct me -- that you think if you are fat (or even not fat but a bit overweight) and don't immediately lose weight that you must not care about health or your partner or are just lazy and piggish or some such, that you really are a pretty worthless person.
You seem pretty interested in wanting me to fail.
Why?
You are misinterpreting. I will repeat myself:
"The mental aspect needs to be there and sometimes it is not, again IME. Maybe you won't find this, maybe you are way more perfect that those of us who have sometimes struggled, but I don't actually think you know this yet."
To add to that: one can struggle or find it way harder than expected even if one does not regain.
Also, again: "I am sensing from you -- and perhaps I am misunderstanding and if so I'd love for you to correct me -- that you think if you are fat (or even not fat but a bit overweight) and don't immediately lose weight that you must not care about health or your partner or are just lazy and piggish or some such, that you really are a pretty worthless person."1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I'd have no problem with a guy saying that.
YOU wouldn't
Me neither, I know it is true, I have more male friends than female. We have known each other for decades. They speak openly when I am around...
Yeah my friends and I speak really openly. It's a big part of why we're friends. Nobody sugar coating or kid gloving things, and if anyone brings up a problem expect no-holds-barred solutions to be presented. We don't sit around and talk about our feelings just to have each other say "I know how you feel."
If I said to one of them "Dude, I put on five pounds." I'd hear "Then put the fork down for a while and hit the gym."3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
This gets to the heart of it. Many here are pretending that those of us who would not be in a relationship with an obese person would dump our SO without warning if their weight hits a certain number. That's not the case (and I can't imagine what kind of relationships they're in that would make them come to that conclusion).
I'm a relatively active, fit person. Unless my SO is handicapped in some way, I expect her to be as well - this is something we've shared since the beginning, and that's valuable to me. I haven't pretended otherwise.
One doesn't go from fit to obese overnight. If she chooses obesity, there will be a long transitional period where we'll communicate about our thoughts, desires, and expectations, just as we have throughout the rest of our relationship.
We don't have kids, so if we choose to go our separate ways, that's fine. That's what adults who grow apart should do.
People here have also made some hay over my weight and whether I'm actually a reasonably fit person because at one point I was overweight.
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
I didn't say you were unfit. That wasn't the point at all. I'd be interested in you responding to the actual point.
I ran a marathon at 145, which is overweight at my height. Could have have run it faster if thinner? I am sure, but I ran it around 4:30, which is respectable enough for a first timer who didn't train that consistently, which was me at the time.
Being overweight does not mean that you can't do physical activities. Does being a certain amount overweight mean that? Sure, of course. But your drawing the line at 25 and then saying it's because the person would have stopped being who you fell in love with or changed so much or no longer can share interests doesn't make sense, and that's part of why I pointed out that you were talking about a weight you were not so long ago.
Being overweight is, as you yourself stated, a performance limiter.
Being over 25 doesn't prevent someone from being extremely fit and active. I haven't yet broken my 145 lb time in the marathon and I'm certainly fit and active now, after all.As for the rest of your comment, you've clearly missed the previous times I have explained in this thread that it is not some binary switch that is on at 24.9999999 and off at 25.0. It's a progressive less and less attractive as the BMI gets up to the overweight range (barring some very fit low body fat lifters I've seen) and then it just becomes a hard "No."
I have acknowledged that several times -- you said you'd say something when the person started gaining (5 lbs or so), say something again if the weight gain continued, and then it would be a hard no at 25 if the person did not fix in in a month or two (with 24 being really quite a warning sign).
I don't see how this is inconsistent with my comments at all.And yep, a while ago, I was fat and unattractive. I fixed the problem and am working on getting even more fit and attractive. So no, you didn't find some mother lode of hypocrisy.
Again, you were barely below 25 as of last month. You are still losing, great. You are 100% convinced that no matter what happens you will never be overweight again and are angry with yourself for having been overweight and feel unforgiving of yourself and are expanding that to how you would feel with a partner -- that's what I'm seeing. My point is not really about hypocrisy. But whatever.
I have never been attracted to overweight people. What is so hard to understand about that?
Also, there's no way that I will be overweight again. It's entirely with my control and down to my choice, as always. I choose not to let that happen. The rest of your psychoanalysis is completely baseless.
We can agree to disagree.
I always find it puzzling when people who have been overweight and eventually came around to figuring out that they needed to lose and doing so, often acknowledging that although other people saying something may have sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own, being really judgmental and unforgiving of others needing to go through this same process.
I also think that when you are motivated and losing weight it's often easy to see weight loss and maintenance as totally easy, regardless of the circumstances, and just a matter of caring or not (and thus becoming overweight must mean that you are being unkind to your partner). I think for people who have gained weight it's often not that easy. NOT saying that means that you must gain weight again (I don't plan to either), but it does make me feel like I would be empathetic and somewhat understanding if a partner gained weight (especially since we seem to be just talking about 15-20 lbs, potentially), for a period of time and couldn't get his head into losing it. I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who I would not be able to go through that with.
But yes, I don't think it would make me not attracted to someone I loved any more. So I don't understand that.
I'm not judging you, but I do think you are bringing in things as part of this that are not part of it -- the idea that the person would have changed personality entirely, would be doing it because of a lack of caring to you, would be behaving willfully, stuff like that.
But like I said, I'm happy to drop it.
After you drop that novel, though, right?
I'm not going to respond again on the partner topic, so say what you like.There was no "get to the place where" I could do it. I looked in the mirror and didn't like what I saw, so I changed it.
So you weren't overweight for a period of time before then?
There was no mental hurdle as you've implied rather heavily with your "sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own". It was actually incredibly simple. The whole protracted mental battle you are alluding to never happened.
Just speaking from my own experience, getting to the point where I thought I needed to change took some time in that I was fat for more than a minute and I didn't not know I was fat -- I knew what clothes I was wearing, etc.
But yes also I have been in a place (at another time -- yes, I've been fat twice, although I was thin for years in-between) where I thought I did need to lose weight but put it off for a while because my head wasn't in it, I wasn't ready for whatever reason. The mental aspect needs to be there and sometimes it is not, again IME. Maybe you won't find this, maybe you are way more perfect that those of us who have sometimes struggled, but I don't actually think you know this yet.
More to the point, there are things I don't struggle with that I know others do, and the fact that I don't doesn't mean I think that anyone who does doesn't deserve understanding. I am sensing from you -- and perhaps I am misunderstanding and if so I'd love for you to correct me -- that you think if you are fat (or even not fat but a bit overweight) and don't immediately lose weight that you must not care about health or your partner or are just lazy and piggish or some such, that you really are a pretty worthless person.
You seem pretty interested in wanting me to fail.
Why?
You are misinterpreting. I will repeat myself:
"The mental aspect needs to be there and sometimes it is not, again IME. Maybe you won't find this, maybe you are way more perfect that those of us who have sometimes struggled, but I don't actually think you know this yet."
To add to that: one can struggle or find it way harder than expected even if one does not regain.
Also, again: "I am sensing from you -- and perhaps I am misunderstanding and if so I'd love for you to correct me -- that you think if you are fat (or even not fat but a bit overweight) and don't immediately lose weight that you must not care about health or your partner or are just lazy and piggish or some such, that you really are a pretty worthless person."
I stand by my previous assessment of your statement.1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I'd have no problem with a guy saying that.
YOU wouldn't Me neither, I know it is true, I have more male friends than female. We have known each other for decades. They speak openly when I am around...
Yeah my friends and I speak really openly. It's a big part of why we're friends. Nobody sugar coating or kid gloving things, and if anyone brings up a problem expect no-holds-barred solutions to be presented. We don't sit around and talk about our feelings just to have each other say "I know how you feel."
If I said to one of them "Dude, I put on five pounds." I'd hear "Then put the fork down for a while and hit the gym."
is their any situation that requires a bit of kid gloving just a little0 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Why do you think that everyone think that you are a bad person and they want you to fail because of your views?2 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I'd have no problem with a guy saying that.
YOU wouldn't Me neither, I know it is true, I have more male friends than female. We have known each other for decades. They speak openly when I am around...
Yeah my friends and I speak really openly. It's a big part of why we're friends. Nobody sugar coating or kid gloving things, and if anyone brings up a problem expect no-holds-barred solutions to be presented. We don't sit around and talk about our feelings just to have each other say "I know how you feel."
If I said to one of them "Dude, I put on five pounds." I'd hear "Then put the fork down for a while and hit the gym."
is their any situation that requires a bit of kid gloving just a little
We took it easy on one dude when he got cancer.
For like a day, and then it was solid gallows humor from there on. He recovered.STLBADGIRL wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Why do you think that everyone think that you are a bad person and they want you to fail because of your views?
Not everyone does. There are definitely a couple of people in here who do, and there are certain phrases that are pretty much dead giveaways.1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I'd have no problem with a guy saying that.
YOU wouldn't Me neither, I know it is true, I have more male friends than female. We have known each other for decades. They speak openly when I am around...
Yeah my friends and I speak really openly. It's a big part of why we're friends. Nobody sugar coating or kid gloving things, and if anyone brings up a problem expect no-holds-barred solutions to be presented. We don't sit around and talk about our feelings just to have each other say "I know how you feel."
If I said to one of them "Dude, I put on five pounds." I'd hear "Then put the fork down for a while and hit the gym."
is their any situation that requires a bit of kid gloving just a little
We took it easy on one dude when he got cancer.
For like a day, and then it was solid gallows humor from there on. He recovered.STLBADGIRL wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Why do you think that everyone think that you are a bad person and they want you to fail because of your views?
Not everyone does. There are definitely a couple of people in here who do, and there are certain phrases that are pretty much dead giveaways.
you must have read my mind, it was my friend with cancer i was thinking of0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I'd have no problem with a guy saying that.
YOU wouldn't Me neither, I know it is true, I have more male friends than female. We have known each other for decades. They speak openly when I am around...
Yeah my friends and I speak really openly. It's a big part of why we're friends. Nobody sugar coating or kid gloving things, and if anyone brings up a problem expect no-holds-barred solutions to be presented. We don't sit around and talk about our feelings just to have each other say "I know how you feel."
If I said to one of them "Dude, I put on five pounds." I'd hear "Then put the fork down for a while and hit the gym."
is their any situation that requires a bit of kid gloving just a little
We took it easy on one dude when he got cancer.
For like a day, and then it was solid gallows humor from there on. He recovered.STLBADGIRL wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Why do you think that everyone think that you are a bad person and they want you to fail because of your views?
Not everyone does. There are definitely a couple of people in here who do, and there are certain phrases that are pretty much dead giveaways.
you must have read my mind, it was my friend with cancer i was thinking of
There's a difference between coddling and not being outright mean to someone. My friends and I are a very tough-love set, but no matter how direct we are or how we joke with each other, it's not like we're sadists who go out with the intent to hurt someone's feelings.
My best buddies are the ones telling me before a race that if I break my leg in mile one they're going to laugh. They'll be the ones there with the inspirational signs that say "Run faster or the slag wagon will get you."5 -
This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go
I've been waiting with bated breath for such a thread to make its debut on the MFP scene. I haven't seen a good one like that in about a year and a half. There might be some hesitancy, I don't know...
Reddit's deadbedrooms is ... eye opening.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »Therealobi1 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I'd have no problem with a guy saying that.
YOU wouldn't Me neither, I know it is true, I have more male friends than female. We have known each other for decades. They speak openly when I am around...
Yeah my friends and I speak really openly. It's a big part of why we're friends. Nobody sugar coating or kid gloving things, and if anyone brings up a problem expect no-holds-barred solutions to be presented. We don't sit around and talk about our feelings just to have each other say "I know how you feel."
If I said to one of them "Dude, I put on five pounds." I'd hear "Then put the fork down for a while and hit the gym."
is their any situation that requires a bit of kid gloving just a little
We took it easy on one dude when he got cancer.
For like a day, and then it was solid gallows humor from there on. He recovered.STLBADGIRL wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »
Why do you think that everyone think that you are a bad person and they want you to fail because of your views?
Not everyone does. There are definitely a couple of people in here who do, and there are certain phrases that are pretty much dead giveaways.
you must have read my mind, it was my friend with cancer i was thinking of
There's a difference between coddling and not being outright mean to someone. My friends and I are a very tough-love set, but no matter how direct we are or how we joke with each other, it's not like we're sadists who go out with the intent to hurt someone's feelings.
My best buddies are the ones telling me before a race that if I break my leg in mile one they're going to laugh. They'll be the ones there with the inspirational signs that say "Run faster or the slag wagon will get you."
well i had to ask the questions as its not clear in other posts.0 -
This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go
I've been waiting with bated breath for such a thread to make its debut on the MFP scene. I haven't seen a good one like that in about a year and a half. There might be some hesitancy, I don't know...
well it definitely wouldn't make 20 plus pages.1 -
This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I think this is hard to absorb anyway you put it from either sex.
To nicely put it - marriage is not for everyone.6 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
This gets to the heart of it. Many here are pretending that those of us who would not be in a relationship with an obese person would dump our SO without warning if their weight hits a certain number. That's not the case (and I can't imagine what kind of relationships they're in that would make them come to that conclusion).
I'm a relatively active, fit person. Unless my SO is handicapped in some way, I expect her to be as well - this is something we've shared since the beginning, and that's valuable to me. I haven't pretended otherwise.
One doesn't go from fit to obese overnight. If she chooses obesity, there will be a long transitional period where we'll communicate about our thoughts, desires, and expectations, just as we have throughout the rest of our relationship.
We don't have kids, so if we choose to go our separate ways, that's fine. That's what adults who grow apart should do.
People here have also made some hay over my weight and whether I'm actually a reasonably fit person because at one point I was overweight.
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
I didn't say you were unfit. That wasn't the point at all. I'd be interested in you responding to the actual point.
I ran a marathon at 145, which is overweight at my height. Could have have run it faster if thinner? I am sure, but I ran it around 4:30, which is respectable enough for a first timer who didn't train that consistently, which was me at the time.
Being overweight does not mean that you can't do physical activities. Does being a certain amount overweight mean that? Sure, of course. But your drawing the line at 25 and then saying it's because the person would have stopped being who you fell in love with or changed so much or no longer can share interests doesn't make sense, and that's part of why I pointed out that you were talking about a weight you were not so long ago.
Being overweight is, as you yourself stated, a performance limiter.
Being over 25 doesn't prevent someone from being extremely fit and active. I haven't yet broken my 145 lb time in the marathon and I'm certainly fit and active now, after all.As for the rest of your comment, you've clearly missed the previous times I have explained in this thread that it is not some binary switch that is on at 24.9999999 and off at 25.0. It's a progressive less and less attractive as the BMI gets up to the overweight range (barring some very fit low body fat lifters I've seen) and then it just becomes a hard "No."
I have acknowledged that several times -- you said you'd say something when the person started gaining (5 lbs or so), say something again if the weight gain continued, and then it would be a hard no at 25 if the person did not fix in in a month or two (with 24 being really quite a warning sign).
I don't see how this is inconsistent with my comments at all.And yep, a while ago, I was fat and unattractive. I fixed the problem and am working on getting even more fit and attractive. So no, you didn't find some mother lode of hypocrisy.
Again, you were barely below 25 as of last month. You are still losing, great. You are 100% convinced that no matter what happens you will never be overweight again and are angry with yourself for having been overweight and feel unforgiving of yourself and are expanding that to how you would feel with a partner -- that's what I'm seeing. My point is not really about hypocrisy. But whatever.
I have never been attracted to overweight people. What is so hard to understand about that?
Also, there's no way that I will be overweight again. It's entirely with my control and down to my choice, as always. I choose not to let that happen. The rest of your psychoanalysis is completely baseless.
We can agree to disagree.
I always find it puzzling when people who have been overweight and eventually came around to figuring out that they needed to lose and doing so, often acknowledging that although other people saying something may have sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own, being really judgmental and unforgiving of others needing to go through this same process.
I also think that when you are motivated and losing weight it's often easy to see weight loss and maintenance as totally easy, regardless of the circumstances, and just a matter of caring or not (and thus becoming overweight must mean that you are being unkind to your partner). I think for people who have gained weight it's often not that easy. NOT saying that means that you must gain weight again (I don't plan to either), but it does make me feel like I would be empathetic and somewhat understanding if a partner gained weight (especially since we seem to be just talking about 15-20 lbs, potentially), for a period of time and couldn't get his head into losing it. I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who I would not be able to go through that with.
But yes, I don't think it would make me not attracted to someone I loved any more. So I don't understand that.
I'm not judging you, but I do think you are bringing in things as part of this that are not part of it -- the idea that the person would have changed personality entirely, would be doing it because of a lack of caring to you, would be behaving willfully, stuff like that.
But like I said, I'm happy to drop it.
After you drop that novel, though, right?
I'm not going to respond again on the partner topic, so say what you like.There was no "get to the place where" I could do it. I looked in the mirror and didn't like what I saw, so I changed it.
So you weren't overweight for a period of time before then?
There was no mental hurdle as you've implied rather heavily with your "sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own". It was actually incredibly simple. The whole protracted mental battle you are alluding to never happened.
Just speaking from my own experience, getting to the point where I thought I needed to change took some time in that I was fat for more than a minute and I didn't not know I was fat -- I knew what clothes I was wearing, etc.
But yes also I have been in a place (at another time -- yes, I've been fat twice, although I was thin for years in-between) where I thought I did need to lose weight but put it off for a while because my head wasn't in it, I wasn't ready for whatever reason. The mental aspect needs to be there and sometimes it is not, again IME. Maybe you won't find this, maybe you are way more perfect that those of us who have sometimes struggled, but I don't actually think you know this yet.
More to the point, there are things I don't struggle with that I know others do, and the fact that I don't doesn't mean I think that anyone who does doesn't deserve understanding. I am sensing from you -- and perhaps I am misunderstanding and if so I'd love for you to correct me -- that you think if you are fat (or even not fat but a bit overweight) and don't immediately lose weight that you must not care about health or your partner or are just lazy and piggish or some such, that you really are a pretty worthless person.
You seem pretty interested in wanting me to fail.
Why?
You are misinterpreting. I will repeat myself:
"The mental aspect needs to be there and sometimes it is not, again IME. Maybe you won't find this, maybe you are way more perfect that those of us who have sometimes struggled, but I don't actually think you know this yet."
To add to that: one can struggle or find it way harder than expected even if one does not regain.
Also, again: "I am sensing from you -- and perhaps I am misunderstanding and if so I'd love for you to correct me -- that you think if you are fat (or even not fat but a bit overweight) and don't immediately lose weight that you must not care about health or your partner or are just lazy and piggish or some such, that you really are a pretty worthless person."
The bolded is the part I am interested in hearing addressed. I am sensing a complete and utter disdain for anyone (not just a partner in a romantic relationship) who lets themselves get fat. That anyone who does struggle to lose the weight, who doesn't find it as simple as looking in the mirror and just deciding not to be fat anymore, is lazy or a worthless person, since weight is totally within one's control. While I do acknowledge that it is totally up to the individual to do the work to lose the weight, no one can do it for them, as we say time and again on these boards - weight loss is simple, but it is not easy. There is so much more that goes into it than just saying "I'm not going to be fat anymore", and to say definitively that this can never happen again, seems naive to so many of these extenuating circumstances and curveballs that life throws at you - which is the point people have been trying to make repeatedly in this thread. Everyone is free to set their own standards for what they find attractive in a partner, and of course, honest communications of those expectations is a great first start. But there seems to be a total lack of empathy toward any of those extenuating circumstances which can contribute to the mental challenges that come with losing weight, and that's what I think people are reacting to in this thread.
11 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I think this is hard to absorb anyway you put it from either sex.
To nicely put it - marriage is not for everyone.
I think it's more: there are different kinds of a happy marriage.
Oh I totally agree....but for the scenario used about the guy becoming very honest and saying he feels no attraction to her "fat rolls and mother's apron and pretending they have a low sex drive" comment. That guy doesn't deserve a wife IMO. And I say that because he will put away his VOWS and bail on the commitment to his wife and family because of some rolls. That guy needs to be in relationships that he can walk away easily from with no strings attached.3 -
My husband loves me for me. In saying that, if he said I was getting too large or too thin, he would be doing it because he's concerned not to be degrading. Yes, I would want him to tell me. His concerned are important to me as mine are to him.5
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »mom23mangos wrote: »I think the analogy with aging keeps getting brought up because several of the people who said they would leave an overweight spouse said they would not leave an aging spouse. What sets some people off is that if I were ask most of you in your 20's, are you physically attracted to that lean, thinning hair, active, wrinkly 80yr old, most people would say no. However, if that is your spouse you have grown old with and you yourself are approaching 80, your answer would probably be yes.
I think that's why so many people have a hard time wrapping their head around some posters inability to even imagine that they might still be physically attracted to a partner who has physically changed (including weight gain) slowly over the decades. When if you would show them a picture of a stranger, they would absolutely say no, I'm not attracted to someone who looks like that.
I think the argument has been that aging (and certain physical changes due to it) are inevitable, but weight gain is not.
However, I agree with you 100%! And good luck to the 20-something who thinks they will defy gravity and stay hot forever :laugh:
But that argument doesn't hold up if changing appearance is such an important metric that it's a deal-breaker, as some posters are mentioning.
There is a difference in changing appearance because of aging, on changing appearance because of putting on weight, of letting personal hygiene go, of making radical changes in overall style (like going e.g. from a conservative hairstyle to sporting a green mohawk). Aging is inevitable. And there is such a thing as aging gracefully, vs accepting that as we age looks really no longer matter.
You are missing the point. You can't control how much collagen your skin has. You can take excellent care of yourself and still have skin that sags and look a mess and not be objectively attractive. You can have bad genes and get arthritis and end up with a dowager hump whether you're male or female. (There was this elderly couple that went to the gym I used to belong to who both had one. They used to come and walk the track together.)
The point I'm making still stands: if attractiveness is a primary metric in a relationship for you, at some point, time is going to render meaningless. Bear in mind, no one wakes up one day suddenly morbidly obese either, and the person talking about dumping someone isn't even talking about morbid obesity. They are talking about a BMI that is considered to be healthy for aging people.2 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I think this is hard to absorb anyway you put it from either sex.
To nicely put it - marriage is not for everyone.
I think it's more: there are different kinds of a happy marriage.
Oh I totally agree....but for the scenario used about the guy becoming very honest and saying he feels no attraction to her "fat rolls and mother's apron and pretending they have a low sex drive" comment. That guy doesn't deserve a wife IMO. And I say that because he will put away his VOWS and bail on the commitment to his wife and family because of some rolls. That guy needs to be in relationships that he can walk away easily from with no strings attached.
Yeah, and any guy saying that had better be an Adonis. Just sayin'.
I've had plenty of male friends in my life. Most of them are just damn happy to get laid. And no, they are not unattractive people.5 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I think this is hard to absorb anyway you put it from either sex.
To nicely put it - marriage is not for everyone.
/thread for the love of gawd. Lol8 -
STLBADGIRL wrote: »STLBADGIRL wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I think this is hard to absorb anyway you put it from either sex.
To nicely put it - marriage is not for everyone.
I think it's more: there are different kinds of a happy marriage.
Oh I totally agree....but for the scenario used about the guy becoming very honest and saying he feels no attraction to her "fat rolls and mother's apron and pretending they have a low sex drive" comment. That guy doesn't deserve a wife IMO. And I say that because he will put away his VOWS and bail on the commitment to his wife and family because of some rolls. That guy needs to be in relationships that he can walk away easily from with no strings attached.
I didn't see the guy bailing on his commitment. In fact, I see the opposite. The scenario has him pretending he has a low sex drive so he can avoid sexual intimacy with the wife he no longer finds attractive. Sounds to me like he's trying to spare her feelings. He hasn't left her or stopped loving her, he just doesn't feel sexually attracted anymore.3
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