Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Should your S.O./Spouse have a say so if they feel you are too thin or too large?
Options
Replies
-
heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
This gets to the heart of it. Many here are pretending that those of us who would not be in a relationship with an obese person would dump our SO without warning if their weight hits a certain number. That's not the case (and I can't imagine what kind of relationships they're in that would make them come to that conclusion).
I'm a relatively active, fit person. Unless my SO is handicapped in some way, I expect her to be as well - this is something we've shared since the beginning, and that's valuable to me. I haven't pretended otherwise.
One doesn't go from fit to obese overnight. If she chooses obesity, there will be a long transitional period where we'll communicate about our thoughts, desires, and expectations, just as we have throughout the rest of our relationship.
We don't have kids, so if we choose to go our separate ways, that's fine. That's what adults who grow apart should do.
People here have also made some hay over my weight and whether I'm actually a reasonably fit person because at one point I was overweight.
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
I didn't say you were unfit. That wasn't the point at all. I'd be interested in you responding to the actual point.
I ran a marathon at 145, which is overweight at my height. Could have have run it faster if thinner? I am sure, but I ran it around 4:30, which is respectable enough for a first timer who didn't train that consistently, which was me at the time.
Being overweight does not mean that you can't do physical activities. Does being a certain amount overweight mean that? Sure, of course. But your drawing the line at 25 and then saying it's because the person would have stopped being who you fell in love with or changed so much or no longer can share interests doesn't make sense, and that's part of why I pointed out that you were talking about a weight you were not so long ago.
Being overweight is, as you yourself stated, a performance limiter.
Being over 25 doesn't prevent someone from being extremely fit and active. I haven't yet broken my 145 lb time in the marathon and I'm certainly fit and active now, after all.As for the rest of your comment, you've clearly missed the previous times I have explained in this thread that it is not some binary switch that is on at 24.9999999 and off at 25.0. It's a progressive less and less attractive as the BMI gets up to the overweight range (barring some very fit low body fat lifters I've seen) and then it just becomes a hard "No."
I have acknowledged that several times -- you said you'd say something when the person started gaining (5 lbs or so), say something again if the weight gain continued, and then it would be a hard no at 25 if the person did not fix in in a month or two (with 24 being really quite a warning sign).
I don't see how this is inconsistent with my comments at all.And yep, a while ago, I was fat and unattractive. I fixed the problem and am working on getting even more fit and attractive. So no, you didn't find some mother lode of hypocrisy.
Again, you were barely below 25 as of last month. You are still losing, great. You are 100% convinced that no matter what happens you will never be overweight again and are angry with yourself for having been overweight and feel unforgiving of yourself and are expanding that to how you would feel with a partner -- that's what I'm seeing. My point is not really about hypocrisy. But whatever.
I have never been attracted to overweight people. What is so hard to understand about that?
Also, there's no way that I will be overweight again. It's entirely with my control and down to my choice, as always. I choose not to let that happen. The rest of your psychoanalysis is completely baseless.
We can agree to disagree.
I always find it puzzling when people who have been overweight and eventually came around to figuring out that they needed to lose and doing so, often acknowledging that although other people saying something may have sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own, being really judgmental and unforgiving of others needing to go through this same process.
I also think that when you are motivated and losing weight it's often easy to see weight loss and maintenance as totally easy, regardless of the circumstances, and just a matter of caring or not (and thus becoming overweight must mean that you are being unkind to your partner). I think for people who have gained weight it's often not that easy. NOT saying that means that you must gain weight again (I don't plan to either), but it does make me feel like I would be empathetic and somewhat understanding if a partner gained weight (especially since we seem to be just talking about 15-20 lbs, potentially), for a period of time and couldn't get his head into losing it. I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who I would not be able to go through that with.
But yes, I don't think it would make me not attracted to someone I loved any more. So I don't understand that.
I'm not judging you, but I do think you are bringing in things as part of this that are not part of it -- the idea that the person would have changed personality entirely, would be doing it because of a lack of caring to you, would be behaving willfully, stuff like that.
But like I said, I'm happy to drop it.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »The answer to bad moral character? I think everyone knows that's much, much harder than weight loss. A fat person (defined here as a person who is at 1 lb over the arbitrary WHO guide of BMI=25) can lose weight.They can bring joy to the lives of others. They can participate in athletic activities, be upstanding members of their communities, be generous and kind,and fun, and small good, and yes, have sex with ordinary humans without crushing them or breaking bones. And they can, as I said, lose the weight.
A narrow, shallow, judgmental person changing is the stuff of fairy tales.
I personally think anyone married to such a person is better off without the dead weight of that spouse.
So, physical attraction is a matter of morals?
I love it how everyone is supposedly for communication and honesty in marriages, as long as there is actually no real communication and honesty happening...
It's not about physical attraction after a certain point. After all, we're all going to age, and wrinkled bits and sagging boobs and whatnot aren't all that.
An established long-standing relationship becomes about more than physical attraction after a while. It stops mattering. You are making love to the person who has shared life's ups and downs with you and sex is about expressing everything you feel for each other.
This has been the thrust of all the push back in this discussion. The idea of being turned on because they look hot just then and then going and having sex in a long-standing relationship is just not how it happens. I can remember that happening with my husband, way back in the early days, looking at him here and there and getting turned on, but that's just not how it works now.
Sorry, but this is a very sad way of thinking, for me. I am no longer that young. And yet, I do not consider myself unattractive. I do not want my husband to think of me as someone with whom he is sharing intimacy because of the past and companionship. I make an effort to look good. I look good for my age, I am not planning on dating someone 20 years younger. It is not only about physical appearance, but this matters too. I think it is sad to feel your partner no longer looks good and just make love because he/she once was attractive to you. No matter if they are 20 or 70.
I'm not young either, but neither my husband and I are that old either. We're in our 50's. I still think he's handsome. Our reasons for being intimate go beyond attraction, though. You missed my point. Our relationship has moved beyond surface issues and did so years ago.
More to the point, there will come a point where time catches up to us, though. It happens to everyone, no matter what.
What then? What then if attraction is the be all and end all of a relationship?
3 -
mom23mangos wrote: »I think the analogy with aging keeps getting brought up because several of the people who said they would leave an overweight spouse said they would not leave an aging spouse. What sets some people off is that if I were ask most of you in your 20's, are you physically attracted to that lean, thinning hair, active, wrinkly 80yr old, most people would say no. However, if that is your spouse you have grown old with and you yourself are approaching 80, your answer would probably be yes.
I think that's why so many people have a hard time wrapping their head around some posters inability to even imagine that they might still be physically attracted to a partner who has physically changed (including weight gain) slowly over the decades. When if you would show them a picture of a stranger, they would absolutely say no, I'm not attracted to someone who looks like that.
I think the argument has been that aging (and certain physical changes due to it) are inevitable, but weight gain is not.
However, I agree with you 100%! And good luck to the 20-something who thinks they will defy gravity and stay hot forever :laugh:
But that argument doesn't hold up if changing appearance is such an important metric that it's a deal-breaker, as some posters are mentioning.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
This gets to the heart of it. Many here are pretending that those of us who would not be in a relationship with an obese person would dump our SO without warning if their weight hits a certain number. That's not the case (and I can't imagine what kind of relationships they're in that would make them come to that conclusion).
I'm a relatively active, fit person. Unless my SO is handicapped in some way, I expect her to be as well - this is something we've shared since the beginning, and that's valuable to me. I haven't pretended otherwise.
One doesn't go from fit to obese overnight. If she chooses obesity, there will be a long transitional period where we'll communicate about our thoughts, desires, and expectations, just as we have throughout the rest of our relationship.
We don't have kids, so if we choose to go our separate ways, that's fine. That's what adults who grow apart should do.
People here have also made some hay over my weight and whether I'm actually a reasonably fit person because at one point I was overweight.
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
I didn't say you were unfit. That wasn't the point at all. I'd be interested in you responding to the actual point.
I ran a marathon at 145, which is overweight at my height. Could have have run it faster if thinner? I am sure, but I ran it around 4:30, which is respectable enough for a first timer who didn't train that consistently, which was me at the time.
Being overweight does not mean that you can't do physical activities. Does being a certain amount overweight mean that? Sure, of course. But your drawing the line at 25 and then saying it's because the person would have stopped being who you fell in love with or changed so much or no longer can share interests doesn't make sense, and that's part of why I pointed out that you were talking about a weight you were not so long ago.
Being overweight is, as you yourself stated, a performance limiter.
Being over 25 doesn't prevent someone from being extremely fit and active. I haven't yet broken my 145 lb time in the marathon and I'm certainly fit and active now, after all.As for the rest of your comment, you've clearly missed the previous times I have explained in this thread that it is not some binary switch that is on at 24.9999999 and off at 25.0. It's a progressive less and less attractive as the BMI gets up to the overweight range (barring some very fit low body fat lifters I've seen) and then it just becomes a hard "No."
I have acknowledged that several times -- you said you'd say something when the person started gaining (5 lbs or so), say something again if the weight gain continued, and then it would be a hard no at 25 if the person did not fix in in a month or two (with 24 being really quite a warning sign).
I don't see how this is inconsistent with my comments at all.And yep, a while ago, I was fat and unattractive. I fixed the problem and am working on getting even more fit and attractive. So no, you didn't find some mother lode of hypocrisy.
Again, you were barely below 25 as of last month. You are still losing, great. You are 100% convinced that no matter what happens you will never be overweight again and are angry with yourself for having been overweight and feel unforgiving of yourself and are expanding that to how you would feel with a partner -- that's what I'm seeing. My point is not really about hypocrisy. But whatever.
I have never been attracted to overweight people. What is so hard to understand about that?
Also, there's no way that I will be overweight again. It's entirely with my control and down to my choice, as always. I choose not to let that happen. The rest of your psychoanalysis is completely baseless.
We can agree to disagree.
I always find it puzzling when people who have been overweight and eventually came around to figuring out that they needed to lose and doing so, often acknowledging that although other people saying something may have sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own, being really judgmental and unforgiving of others needing to go through this same process.
I also think that when you are motivated and losing weight it's often easy to see weight loss and maintenance as totally easy, regardless of the circumstances, and just a matter of caring or not (and thus becoming overweight must mean that you are being unkind to your partner). I think for people who have gained weight it's often not that easy. NOT saying that means that you must gain weight again (I don't plan to either), but it does make me feel like I would be empathetic and somewhat understanding if a partner gained weight (especially since we seem to be just talking about 15-20 lbs, potentially), for a period of time and couldn't get his head into losing it. I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who I would not be able to go through that with.
But yes, I don't think it would make me not attracted to someone I loved any more. So I don't understand that.
I'm not judging you, but I do think you are bringing in things as part of this that are not part of it -- the idea that the person would have changed personality entirely, would be doing it because of a lack of caring to you, would be behaving willfully, stuff like that.
But like I said, I'm happy to drop it.
After you drop that novel, though, right?
There was no "get to the place where" I could do it. I looked in the mirror and didn't like what I saw, so I changed it. This isn't some battle or journey or whatever other term people apply to their own lives. This is my life, and it's a series of choices that are entirely mine.
Maintaining my own body is not a team sport. At best it allows me to engage in team sports with someone else, but it's not their responsibility or something that I can't do without support. I don't expect anyone to feel empathy to me if I neglect that responsibility.
I don't expect anything out of anyone else I'm not willing to do myself. This isn't a double standard.3 -
mom23mangos wrote: »I think the analogy with aging keeps getting brought up because several of the people who said they would leave an overweight spouse said they would not leave an aging spouse. What sets some people off is that if I were ask most of you in your 20's, are you physically attracted to that lean, thinning hair, active, wrinkly 80yr old, most people would say no. However, if that is your spouse you have grown old with and you yourself are approaching 80, your answer would probably be yes.
I think that's why so many people have a hard time wrapping their head around some posters inability to even imagine that they might still be physically attracted to a partner who has physically changed (including weight gain) slowly over the decades. When if you would show them a picture of a stranger, they would absolutely say no, I'm not attracted to someone who looks like that.
I think the argument has been that aging (and certain physical changes due to it) are inevitable, but weight gain is not.
However, I agree with you 100%! And good luck to the 20-something who thinks they will defy gravity and stay hot forever :laugh:
plastic surgery can sort it all out.1 -
This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
I know what mine would say. 'Why am I wasting time reading this? Meet me in the bedroom in 5 minutes and lock the door.' :laugh:9 -
This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
I haven't gotten too much flack from men for my viewpoint, here or elsewhere.2 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »mom23mangos wrote: »I think the analogy with aging keeps getting brought up because several of the people who said they would leave an overweight spouse said they would not leave an aging spouse. What sets some people off is that if I were ask most of you in your 20's, are you physically attracted to that lean, thinning hair, active, wrinkly 80yr old, most people would say no. However, if that is your spouse you have grown old with and you yourself are approaching 80, your answer would probably be yes.
I think that's why so many people have a hard time wrapping their head around some posters inability to even imagine that they might still be physically attracted to a partner who has physically changed (including weight gain) slowly over the decades. When if you would show them a picture of a stranger, they would absolutely say no, I'm not attracted to someone who looks like that.
I think the argument has been that aging (and certain physical changes due to it) are inevitable, but weight gain is not.
However, I agree with you 100%! And good luck to the 20-something who thinks they will defy gravity and stay hot forever :laugh:
plastic surgery can sort it all out.
I don't know - one surgery would hardly do it for anyone with a good life span and personally, I find people who've had serial plastic surgeries look worse and worse after a certain point.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
This gets to the heart of it. Many here are pretending that those of us who would not be in a relationship with an obese person would dump our SO without warning if their weight hits a certain number. That's not the case (and I can't imagine what kind of relationships they're in that would make them come to that conclusion).
I'm a relatively active, fit person. Unless my SO is handicapped in some way, I expect her to be as well - this is something we've shared since the beginning, and that's valuable to me. I haven't pretended otherwise.
One doesn't go from fit to obese overnight. If she chooses obesity, there will be a long transitional period where we'll communicate about our thoughts, desires, and expectations, just as we have throughout the rest of our relationship.
We don't have kids, so if we choose to go our separate ways, that's fine. That's what adults who grow apart should do.
People here have also made some hay over my weight and whether I'm actually a reasonably fit person because at one point I was overweight.
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
I didn't say you were unfit. That wasn't the point at all. I'd be interested in you responding to the actual point.
I ran a marathon at 145, which is overweight at my height. Could have have run it faster if thinner? I am sure, but I ran it around 4:30, which is respectable enough for a first timer who didn't train that consistently, which was me at the time.
Being overweight does not mean that you can't do physical activities. Does being a certain amount overweight mean that? Sure, of course. But your drawing the line at 25 and then saying it's because the person would have stopped being who you fell in love with or changed so much or no longer can share interests doesn't make sense, and that's part of why I pointed out that you were talking about a weight you were not so long ago.
Being overweight is, as you yourself stated, a performance limiter.
Being over 25 doesn't prevent someone from being extremely fit and active. I haven't yet broken my 145 lb time in the marathon and I'm certainly fit and active now, after all.As for the rest of your comment, you've clearly missed the previous times I have explained in this thread that it is not some binary switch that is on at 24.9999999 and off at 25.0. It's a progressive less and less attractive as the BMI gets up to the overweight range (barring some very fit low body fat lifters I've seen) and then it just becomes a hard "No."
I have acknowledged that several times -- you said you'd say something when the person started gaining (5 lbs or so), say something again if the weight gain continued, and then it would be a hard no at 25 if the person did not fix in in a month or two (with 24 being really quite a warning sign).
I don't see how this is inconsistent with my comments at all.And yep, a while ago, I was fat and unattractive. I fixed the problem and am working on getting even more fit and attractive. So no, you didn't find some mother lode of hypocrisy.
Again, you were barely below 25 as of last month. You are still losing, great. You are 100% convinced that no matter what happens you will never be overweight again and are angry with yourself for having been overweight and feel unforgiving of yourself and are expanding that to how you would feel with a partner -- that's what I'm seeing. My point is not really about hypocrisy. But whatever.
I have never been attracted to overweight people. What is so hard to understand about that?
Also, there's no way that I will be overweight again. It's entirely with my control and down to my choice, as always. I choose not to let that happen. The rest of your psychoanalysis is completely baseless.
We can agree to disagree.
I always find it puzzling when people who have been overweight and eventually came around to figuring out that they needed to lose and doing so, often acknowledging that although other people saying something may have sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own, being really judgmental and unforgiving of others needing to go through this same process.
I also think that when you are motivated and losing weight it's often easy to see weight loss and maintenance as totally easy, regardless of the circumstances, and just a matter of caring or not (and thus becoming overweight must mean that you are being unkind to your partner). I think for people who have gained weight it's often not that easy. NOT saying that means that you must gain weight again (I don't plan to either), but it does make me feel like I would be empathetic and somewhat understanding if a partner gained weight (especially since we seem to be just talking about 15-20 lbs, potentially), for a period of time and couldn't get his head into losing it. I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who I would not be able to go through that with.
But yes, I don't think it would make me not attracted to someone I loved any more. So I don't understand that.
I'm not judging you, but I do think you are bringing in things as part of this that are not part of it -- the idea that the person would have changed personality entirely, would be doing it because of a lack of caring to you, would be behaving willfully, stuff like that.
But like I said, I'm happy to drop it.
After you drop that novel, though, right?
I'm not going to respond again on the partner topic, so say what you like.There was no "get to the place where" I could do it. I looked in the mirror and didn't like what I saw, so I changed it.
So you weren't overweight for a period of time before then?0 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »mom23mangos wrote: »I think the analogy with aging keeps getting brought up because several of the people who said they would leave an overweight spouse said they would not leave an aging spouse. What sets some people off is that if I were ask most of you in your 20's, are you physically attracted to that lean, thinning hair, active, wrinkly 80yr old, most people would say no. However, if that is your spouse you have grown old with and you yourself are approaching 80, your answer would probably be yes.
I think that's why so many people have a hard time wrapping their head around some posters inability to even imagine that they might still be physically attracted to a partner who has physically changed (including weight gain) slowly over the decades. When if you would show them a picture of a stranger, they would absolutely say no, I'm not attracted to someone who looks like that.
I think the argument has been that aging (and certain physical changes due to it) are inevitable, but weight gain is not.
However, I agree with you 100%! And good luck to the 20-something who thinks they will defy gravity and stay hot forever :laugh:
plastic surgery can sort it all out.
I don't know - one surgery would hardly do it for anyone with a good life span and personally, I find people who've had serial plastic surgeries look worse and worse after a certain point.
botched is such a scary programme to watch1 -
This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I think it's women on both sides of the discussion. But MFP is more female than male.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
This gets to the heart of it. Many here are pretending that those of us who would not be in a relationship with an obese person would dump our SO without warning if their weight hits a certain number. That's not the case (and I can't imagine what kind of relationships they're in that would make them come to that conclusion).
I'm a relatively active, fit person. Unless my SO is handicapped in some way, I expect her to be as well - this is something we've shared since the beginning, and that's valuable to me. I haven't pretended otherwise.
One doesn't go from fit to obese overnight. If she chooses obesity, there will be a long transitional period where we'll communicate about our thoughts, desires, and expectations, just as we have throughout the rest of our relationship.
We don't have kids, so if we choose to go our separate ways, that's fine. That's what adults who grow apart should do.
People here have also made some hay over my weight and whether I'm actually a reasonably fit person because at one point I was overweight.
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
I didn't say you were unfit. That wasn't the point at all. I'd be interested in you responding to the actual point.
I ran a marathon at 145, which is overweight at my height. Could have have run it faster if thinner? I am sure, but I ran it around 4:30, which is respectable enough for a first timer who didn't train that consistently, which was me at the time.
Being overweight does not mean that you can't do physical activities. Does being a certain amount overweight mean that? Sure, of course. But your drawing the line at 25 and then saying it's because the person would have stopped being who you fell in love with or changed so much or no longer can share interests doesn't make sense, and that's part of why I pointed out that you were talking about a weight you were not so long ago.
Being overweight is, as you yourself stated, a performance limiter.
Being over 25 doesn't prevent someone from being extremely fit and active. I haven't yet broken my 145 lb time in the marathon and I'm certainly fit and active now, after all.As for the rest of your comment, you've clearly missed the previous times I have explained in this thread that it is not some binary switch that is on at 24.9999999 and off at 25.0. It's a progressive less and less attractive as the BMI gets up to the overweight range (barring some very fit low body fat lifters I've seen) and then it just becomes a hard "No."
I have acknowledged that several times -- you said you'd say something when the person started gaining (5 lbs or so), say something again if the weight gain continued, and then it would be a hard no at 25 if the person did not fix in in a month or two (with 24 being really quite a warning sign).
I don't see how this is inconsistent with my comments at all.And yep, a while ago, I was fat and unattractive. I fixed the problem and am working on getting even more fit and attractive. So no, you didn't find some mother lode of hypocrisy.
Again, you were barely below 25 as of last month. You are still losing, great. You are 100% convinced that no matter what happens you will never be overweight again and are angry with yourself for having been overweight and feel unforgiving of yourself and are expanding that to how you would feel with a partner -- that's what I'm seeing. My point is not really about hypocrisy. But whatever.
I have never been attracted to overweight people. What is so hard to understand about that?
Also, there's no way that I will be overweight again. It's entirely with my control and down to my choice, as always. I choose not to let that happen. The rest of your psychoanalysis is completely baseless.
We can agree to disagree.
I always find it puzzling when people who have been overweight and eventually came around to figuring out that they needed to lose and doing so, often acknowledging that although other people saying something may have sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own, being really judgmental and unforgiving of others needing to go through this same process.
I also think that when you are motivated and losing weight it's often easy to see weight loss and maintenance as totally easy, regardless of the circumstances, and just a matter of caring or not (and thus becoming overweight must mean that you are being unkind to your partner). I think for people who have gained weight it's often not that easy. NOT saying that means that you must gain weight again (I don't plan to either), but it does make me feel like I would be empathetic and somewhat understanding if a partner gained weight (especially since we seem to be just talking about 15-20 lbs, potentially), for a period of time and couldn't get his head into losing it. I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who I would not be able to go through that with.
But yes, I don't think it would make me not attracted to someone I loved any more. So I don't understand that.
I'm not judging you, but I do think you are bringing in things as part of this that are not part of it -- the idea that the person would have changed personality entirely, would be doing it because of a lack of caring to you, would be behaving willfully, stuff like that.
But like I said, I'm happy to drop it.
After you drop that novel, though, right?
I'm not going to respond again on the partner topic, so say what you like.There was no "get to the place where" I could do it. I looked in the mirror and didn't like what I saw, so I changed it.
So you weren't overweight for a period of time before then?
There was no mental hurdle as you've implied rather heavily with your "sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own". It was actually incredibly simple. The whole protracted mental battle you are alluding to never happened.1 -
How the hell is this thread still going??? I gave up on it some 10 pages ago. Silly me, I guess.
Different people are going to have different priorities, and each relationship is going to be a little different. If looks are important in a given relationship, then so be it. If not, then so be that. Just don't lie about what's important to you if you are in/hoping for a long term relationship. Put your card on the table early so both parties (all parties?) know where they stand.
3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »mom23mangos wrote: »I think the analogy with aging keeps getting brought up because several of the people who said they would leave an overweight spouse said they would not leave an aging spouse. What sets some people off is that if I were ask most of you in your 20's, are you physically attracted to that lean, thinning hair, active, wrinkly 80yr old, most people would say no. However, if that is your spouse you have grown old with and you yourself are approaching 80, your answer would probably be yes.
I think that's why so many people have a hard time wrapping their head around some posters inability to even imagine that they might still be physically attracted to a partner who has physically changed (including weight gain) slowly over the decades. When if you would show them a picture of a stranger, they would absolutely say no, I'm not attracted to someone who looks like that.
I think the argument has been that aging (and certain physical changes due to it) are inevitable, but weight gain is not.
However, I agree with you 100%! And good luck to the 20-something who thinks they will defy gravity and stay hot forever :laugh:
But that argument doesn't hold up if changing appearance is such an important metric that it's a deal-breaker, as some posters are mentioning.
There is a difference in changing appearance because of aging, on changing appearance because of putting on weight, of letting personal hygiene go, of making radical changes in overall style (like going e.g. from a conservative hairstyle to sporting a green mohawk). Aging is inevitable. And there is such a thing as aging gracefully, vs accepting that as we age looks really no longer matter.2 -
This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
This gets to the heart of it. Many here are pretending that those of us who would not be in a relationship with an obese person would dump our SO without warning if their weight hits a certain number. That's not the case (and I can't imagine what kind of relationships they're in that would make them come to that conclusion).
I'm a relatively active, fit person. Unless my SO is handicapped in some way, I expect her to be as well - this is something we've shared since the beginning, and that's valuable to me. I haven't pretended otherwise.
One doesn't go from fit to obese overnight. If she chooses obesity, there will be a long transitional period where we'll communicate about our thoughts, desires, and expectations, just as we have throughout the rest of our relationship.
We don't have kids, so if we choose to go our separate ways, that's fine. That's what adults who grow apart should do.
People here have also made some hay over my weight and whether I'm actually a reasonably fit person because at one point I was overweight.
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
I didn't say you were unfit. That wasn't the point at all. I'd be interested in you responding to the actual point.
I ran a marathon at 145, which is overweight at my height. Could have have run it faster if thinner? I am sure, but I ran it around 4:30, which is respectable enough for a first timer who didn't train that consistently, which was me at the time.
Being overweight does not mean that you can't do physical activities. Does being a certain amount overweight mean that? Sure, of course. But your drawing the line at 25 and then saying it's because the person would have stopped being who you fell in love with or changed so much or no longer can share interests doesn't make sense, and that's part of why I pointed out that you were talking about a weight you were not so long ago.
Being overweight is, as you yourself stated, a performance limiter.
Being over 25 doesn't prevent someone from being extremely fit and active. I haven't yet broken my 145 lb time in the marathon and I'm certainly fit and active now, after all.As for the rest of your comment, you've clearly missed the previous times I have explained in this thread that it is not some binary switch that is on at 24.9999999 and off at 25.0. It's a progressive less and less attractive as the BMI gets up to the overweight range (barring some very fit low body fat lifters I've seen) and then it just becomes a hard "No."
I have acknowledged that several times -- you said you'd say something when the person started gaining (5 lbs or so), say something again if the weight gain continued, and then it would be a hard no at 25 if the person did not fix in in a month or two (with 24 being really quite a warning sign).
I don't see how this is inconsistent with my comments at all.And yep, a while ago, I was fat and unattractive. I fixed the problem and am working on getting even more fit and attractive. So no, you didn't find some mother lode of hypocrisy.
Again, you were barely below 25 as of last month. You are still losing, great. You are 100% convinced that no matter what happens you will never be overweight again and are angry with yourself for having been overweight and feel unforgiving of yourself and are expanding that to how you would feel with a partner -- that's what I'm seeing. My point is not really about hypocrisy. But whatever.
I have never been attracted to overweight people. What is so hard to understand about that?
Also, there's no way that I will be overweight again. It's entirely with my control and down to my choice, as always. I choose not to let that happen. The rest of your psychoanalysis is completely baseless.
We can agree to disagree.
I always find it puzzling when people who have been overweight and eventually came around to figuring out that they needed to lose and doing so, often acknowledging that although other people saying something may have sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own, being really judgmental and unforgiving of others needing to go through this same process.
I also think that when you are motivated and losing weight it's often easy to see weight loss and maintenance as totally easy, regardless of the circumstances, and just a matter of caring or not (and thus becoming overweight must mean that you are being unkind to your partner). I think for people who have gained weight it's often not that easy. NOT saying that means that you must gain weight again (I don't plan to either), but it does make me feel like I would be empathetic and somewhat understanding if a partner gained weight (especially since we seem to be just talking about 15-20 lbs, potentially), for a period of time and couldn't get his head into losing it. I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who I would not be able to go through that with.
But yes, I don't think it would make me not attracted to someone I loved any more. So I don't understand that.
I'm not judging you, but I do think you are bringing in things as part of this that are not part of it -- the idea that the person would have changed personality entirely, would be doing it because of a lack of caring to you, would be behaving willfully, stuff like that.
But like I said, I'm happy to drop it.
After you drop that novel, though, right?
I'm not going to respond again on the partner topic, so say what you like.There was no "get to the place where" I could do it. I looked in the mirror and didn't like what I saw, so I changed it.
So you weren't overweight for a period of time before then?
There was no mental hurdle as you've implied rather heavily with your "sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own". It was actually incredibly simple. The whole protracted mental battle you are alluding to never happened.
Just speaking from my own experience, getting to the point where I thought I needed to change took some time in that I was fat for more than a minute and I didn't not know I was fat -- I knew what clothes I was wearing, etc.
But yes also I have been in a place (at another time -- yes, I've been fat twice, although I was thin for years in-between) where I thought I did need to lose weight but put it off for a while because my head wasn't in it, I wasn't ready for whatever reason. The mental aspect needs to be there and sometimes it is not, again IME. Maybe you won't find this, maybe you are way more perfect that those of us who have sometimes struggled, but I don't actually think you know this yet.
More to the point, there are things I don't struggle with that I know others do, and the fact that I don't doesn't mean I think that anyone who does doesn't deserve understanding. I am sensing from you -- and perhaps I am misunderstanding and if so I'd love for you to correct me -- that you think if you are fat (or even not fat but a bit overweight) and don't immediately lose weight that you must not care about health or your partner or are just lazy and piggish or some such, that you really are a pretty worthless person.3 -
This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I'd have no problem with a guy saying that.1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I'd have no problem with a guy saying that.
YOU wouldn't
Me neither, I know it is true, I have more male friends than female. We have known each other for decades. They speak openly when I am around... 1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »xmichaelyx wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »I am a reasonably fit person of normal weight. I expect the same of a partner.
This gets to the heart of it. Many here are pretending that those of us who would not be in a relationship with an obese person would dump our SO without warning if their weight hits a certain number. That's not the case (and I can't imagine what kind of relationships they're in that would make them come to that conclusion).
I'm a relatively active, fit person. Unless my SO is handicapped in some way, I expect her to be as well - this is something we've shared since the beginning, and that's valuable to me. I haven't pretended otherwise.
One doesn't go from fit to obese overnight. If she chooses obesity, there will be a long transitional period where we'll communicate about our thoughts, desires, and expectations, just as we have throughout the rest of our relationship.
We don't have kids, so if we choose to go our separate ways, that's fine. That's what adults who grow apart should do.
People here have also made some hay over my weight and whether I'm actually a reasonably fit person because at one point I was overweight.
I ran a 13 mile training run yesterday. That is not something an unfit person does.
I didn't say you were unfit. That wasn't the point at all. I'd be interested in you responding to the actual point.
I ran a marathon at 145, which is overweight at my height. Could have have run it faster if thinner? I am sure, but I ran it around 4:30, which is respectable enough for a first timer who didn't train that consistently, which was me at the time.
Being overweight does not mean that you can't do physical activities. Does being a certain amount overweight mean that? Sure, of course. But your drawing the line at 25 and then saying it's because the person would have stopped being who you fell in love with or changed so much or no longer can share interests doesn't make sense, and that's part of why I pointed out that you were talking about a weight you were not so long ago.
Being overweight is, as you yourself stated, a performance limiter.
Being over 25 doesn't prevent someone from being extremely fit and active. I haven't yet broken my 145 lb time in the marathon and I'm certainly fit and active now, after all.As for the rest of your comment, you've clearly missed the previous times I have explained in this thread that it is not some binary switch that is on at 24.9999999 and off at 25.0. It's a progressive less and less attractive as the BMI gets up to the overweight range (barring some very fit low body fat lifters I've seen) and then it just becomes a hard "No."
I have acknowledged that several times -- you said you'd say something when the person started gaining (5 lbs or so), say something again if the weight gain continued, and then it would be a hard no at 25 if the person did not fix in in a month or two (with 24 being really quite a warning sign).
I don't see how this is inconsistent with my comments at all.And yep, a while ago, I was fat and unattractive. I fixed the problem and am working on getting even more fit and attractive. So no, you didn't find some mother lode of hypocrisy.
Again, you were barely below 25 as of last month. You are still losing, great. You are 100% convinced that no matter what happens you will never be overweight again and are angry with yourself for having been overweight and feel unforgiving of yourself and are expanding that to how you would feel with a partner -- that's what I'm seeing. My point is not really about hypocrisy. But whatever.
I have never been attracted to overweight people. What is so hard to understand about that?
Also, there's no way that I will be overweight again. It's entirely with my control and down to my choice, as always. I choose not to let that happen. The rest of your psychoanalysis is completely baseless.
We can agree to disagree.
I always find it puzzling when people who have been overweight and eventually came around to figuring out that they needed to lose and doing so, often acknowledging that although other people saying something may have sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own, being really judgmental and unforgiving of others needing to go through this same process.
I also think that when you are motivated and losing weight it's often easy to see weight loss and maintenance as totally easy, regardless of the circumstances, and just a matter of caring or not (and thus becoming overweight must mean that you are being unkind to your partner). I think for people who have gained weight it's often not that easy. NOT saying that means that you must gain weight again (I don't plan to either), but it does make me feel like I would be empathetic and somewhat understanding if a partner gained weight (especially since we seem to be just talking about 15-20 lbs, potentially), for a period of time and couldn't get his head into losing it. I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who I would not be able to go through that with.
But yes, I don't think it would make me not attracted to someone I loved any more. So I don't understand that.
I'm not judging you, but I do think you are bringing in things as part of this that are not part of it -- the idea that the person would have changed personality entirely, would be doing it because of a lack of caring to you, would be behaving willfully, stuff like that.
But like I said, I'm happy to drop it.
After you drop that novel, though, right?
I'm not going to respond again on the partner topic, so say what you like.There was no "get to the place where" I could do it. I looked in the mirror and didn't like what I saw, so I changed it.
So you weren't overweight for a period of time before then?
There was no mental hurdle as you've implied rather heavily with your "sparked the thought that they had to get to the place where they could do it on their own". It was actually incredibly simple. The whole protracted mental battle you are alluding to never happened.
Just speaking from my own experience, getting to the point where I thought I needed to change took some time in that I was fat for more than a minute and I didn't not know I was fat -- I knew what clothes I was wearing, etc.
But yes also I have been in a place (at another time -- yes, I've been fat twice, although I was thin for years in-between) where I thought I did need to lose weight but put it off for a while because my head wasn't in it, I wasn't ready for whatever reason. The mental aspect needs to be there and sometimes it is not, again IME. Maybe you won't find this, maybe you are way more perfect that those of us who have sometimes struggled, but I don't actually think you know this yet.
More to the point, there are things I don't struggle with that I know others do, and the fact that I don't doesn't mean I think that anyone who does doesn't deserve understanding. I am sensing from you -- and perhaps I am misunderstanding and if so I'd love for you to correct me -- that you think if you are fat (or even not fat but a bit overweight) and don't immediately lose weight that you must not care about health or your partner or are just lazy and piggish or some such, that you really are a pretty worthless person.
You seem pretty interested in wanting me to fail.
Why?1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »This is a neutral observation, but, as with similar topics related to physical attractiveness, it's overwhelmingly women who are continuing this debate. It's a subject nearer to our hearts I think. And our thighs.
I"m picturing the men who still have the patience to read this thread to be rolling their eyes? Giggling? Wanting to say their awful truth but refraining from it? Wondering what their wives would have to say about all this if they could really let loose? And so on...
See how this debate is going when women say how they feel weight gain is not attractive. Now imagine a guy deciding to be very honest and saying "truth be told, I love my wife, but I can feel no attraction to her fat rolls and mother's apron, and I am just pretending I have low sexual drive in general". Can you see where this would go?
I'd have no problem with a guy saying that.
YOU wouldn't Me neither, I know it is true, I have more male friends than female. We have known each other for decades. They speak openly when I am around...
:flowerforyou: Good for you.3
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.3K Introduce Yourself
- 43.4K Getting Started
- 259.6K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 387 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.2K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 911 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions