Ketosis
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bcomingfitmom wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »bcomingfitmom wrote: »
for the record, I do not care what people do IF, low carb, ketosis, etc…just don't try to say that one is superior to "boring calorie deficit" and we are good to go ...
Not saying you're wrong but..it seems to be the better way to go for the obese.
"In a group of obese patients, the VLCK diet was significantly more effective than a standard LC diet. At one year follow-up in the group with VLCK diet, most of the patients loss more than 10 % of their initial weight and lean mass was well preserved."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24584583/
@kellyb28 one year follow up..lean mass well preserved.
Still don't see where I said nothing else would work.
Also, I wasn't just reffering to weight loss.
Generally, the obese are at greater risk for many of the things a keto diet can help with. If you're obese and have no problems with your metabolic system, cholesterol or diabetes or other insulin issues..that's great. The majority of those who are obese..I don't mean just on the line of being obese..would benefit more from low carb rather than just counting calories. [/quote]
If thats what you mean then yes I agree with you. But in your frist statement you said obese in general that is why I said its not true.
[/quote]
Yes, that's what I mean. I know it's incorrect but I don't think of people with 40-50 pounds to lose as being obese. That was my fault in not clarifying.0 -
for those who don't like keto and have lost weight send me a plan and motivation on what worked for you, would appreciate all HELP, I have tried and failed for 14 years! I am at my wits end! some say diary good for you, but I have asthma/ lung infection that does not work, exercise a pain in the chest! I just want to get this albatross out of my neckand back, sick of being in the obese range, no matter how much I study about eating I cannot seem to put a motivated plan together! something is missing! maybe problem only using 10% brain matter!0
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Not doing the Keto diet, as I find it far too restrictive. But as someone who has a metabolic disorder who has to watch carbs, I have found some damn good keto recipes! Tonight I plan to make the meatzza!0
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for those who don't like keto and have lost weight send me a plan and motivation on what worked for you, would appreciate all HELP, I have tried and failed for 14 years! I am at my wits end! some say diary good for you, but I have asthma/ lung infection that does not work, exercise a pain in the chest! I just want to get this albatross out of my neckand back, sick of being in the obese range, no matter how much I study about eating I cannot seem to put a motivated plan together! something is missing! maybe problem only using 10% brain matter!
grace I did about three things at the same time so I am not sure what cleared up my chronic lung infection of 20 plus years.
Started by getting heavy into virgin coconut oil (about 4-8 tablespoons a day) which was tough for a few weeks due to the Herxheimer effect I expect. Shortly after starting VCO I started reducing sugar, carbs, grains.
A month ago I go really serious and cut all added sugar and bread and try to hold the carbs to 20 grams a day now.
Not hacking up stuff from the lungs now is worth all my effort. The decrease in my arthritis related pain was my initial goal so that is a huge plus. I have lost about 8 pounds the last month so that is a plus.
grace do not give up. You will find a way forward to your goal to cut some weight.
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for those who don't like keto and have lost weight send me a plan and motivation on what worked for you, would appreciate all HELP, I have tried and failed for 14 years! I am at my wits end! some say diary good for you, but I have asthma/ lung infection that does not work, exercise a pain in the chest! I just want to get this albatross out of my neckand back, sick of being in the obese range, no matter how much I study about eating I cannot seem to put a motivated plan together! something is missing! maybe problem only using 10% brain matter!
1. calculate your TDEE and figure out how many calories per day you maintain on.
2. deduct 500 calories from that number and set MFP to that number of calories per day.
3. buy a food scale and weigh, log, measure everything that you eat.
4. realize that no foods are "bad" food is just energy that your body uses for energy. you can eat the foods that you eat, maintain a deficit, still lose weight.
5. get on some kind of exercise regimen...walking, running, lifting weights, etc.
6. repeat until you get desired results.0 -
bcomingfitmom wrote: »
Most people doing keto think that eating carbs is a recipe for failure! I am a vegetarian, I don't eat meat but I get my protein for the day from plant sources. I have both carbs and protein for each meal and feel full and stay full for upto 3-4 hrsA calorie deficit will work whether keto, high carb, vegetarian etc. What people doing keto try to explain is that it is easier to lose on keto because you feel full and not constantly hungry. Fat and in particular protein are satiating so it is hard to overeat, whereas it is easy to eat carb rich foods all day. I have been doing keto for 10 months, it is now a lifestyle, it was a diet for the first few months, I felt great so do not feel I need to change.
Good for you for feeling full on what YOU eat...doesn't change how I feel when I eat or am hungry. I've tried low calorie (and I'm sure many other keto-ers have), but I was always thinking about food and always bargaining to myself (I'll eat this cupcake now but I SWEAR I'll be really good at dinner). Eating carbs for me could lead to me failing and becomes a slippery slope.
And for Froody, from a person who actually keto diets, I don't binge more on keto, but it doesn't disappear. I could eat the whole package of bacon EASILY. As far as cupcakes or something like that if you're referring to carbs, its easier for me to have ZERO cupcake than it is a half a cupcake. In my mind and the way I work, all or nothing is easier for me than partial. Nobody anything says or how they say its too restrictive will change the way my mind thinks.0 -
for those who don't like keto and have lost weight send me a plan and motivation on what worked for you, would appreciate all HELP, I have tried and failed for 14 years! I am at my wits end! some say diary good for you, but I have asthma/ lung infection that does not work, exercise a pain in the chest! I just want to get this albatross out of my neckand back, sick of being in the obese range, no matter how much I study about eating I cannot seem to put a motivated plan together! something is missing! maybe problem only using 10% brain matter!
1. calculate your TDEE and figure out how many calories per day you maintain on.
2. deduct 500 calories from that number and set MFP to that number of calories per day.
3. buy a food scale and weigh, log, measure everything that you eat.
4. realize that no foods are "bad" food is just energy that your body uses for energy. you can eat the foods that you eat, maintain a deficit, still lose weight.
5. get on some kind of exercise regimen...walking, running, lifting weights, etc.
6. repeat until you get desired results.
This. Extra emphasis on buying a scale and weighing your food.0 -
There are alot of people who can not stop at just one cookie. One square of chocolate. One slice of pizza. I'm not the only one. I wish I could. But what usually happens is a few days of "you can only have one cookie within your calories" and then "omg I'm eating the whole packet, screw it, I'll get back on track tomorrow/Monday". AMIRITE?
^^^ This is me....and in0 -
mrsfyredude wrote: »
There are alot of people who can not stop at just one cookie. One square of chocolate. One slice of pizza. I'm not the only one. I wish I could. But what usually happens is a few days of "you can only have one cookie within your calories" and then "omg I'm eating the whole packet, screw it, I'll get back on track tomorrow/Monday". AMIRITE?
^^^ This is me....and in
Ditto.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »for those who don't like keto and have lost weight send me a plan and motivation on what worked for you, would appreciate all HELP, I have tried and failed for 14 years! I am at my wits end! some say diary good for you, but I have asthma/ lung infection that does not work, exercise a pain in the chest! I just want to get this albatross out of my neckand back, sick of being in the obese range, no matter how much I study about eating I cannot seem to put a motivated plan together! something is missing! maybe problem only using 10% brain matter!
grace I did about three things at the same time so I am not sure what cleared up my chronic lung infection of 20 plus years.
Started by getting heavy into virgin coconut oil (about 4-8 tablespoons a day) which was tough for a few weeks due to the Herxheimer effect I expect. Shortly after starting VCO I started reducing sugar, carbs, grains.
A month ago I go really serious and cut all added sugar and bread and try to hold the carbs to 20 grams a day now.
Not hacking up stuff from the lungs now is worth all my effort. The decrease in my arthritis related pain was my initial goal so that is a huge plus. I have lost about 8 pounds the last month so that is a plus.
grace do not give up. You will find a way forward to your goal to cut some weight.
Every post you make is about coconut oil.
8 tablespoons of oil is almost 1000 kcals. That's at least half of the average daily intake with no vitamins, fibre or protein.
How is that healthy or in any way satisfying?0 -
bcomingfitmom wrote: »
Most people doing keto think that eating carbs is a recipe for failure! I am a vegetarian, I don't eat meat but I get my protein for the day from plant sources. I have both carbs and protein for each meal and feel full and stay full for upto 3-4 hrsA calorie deficit will work whether keto, high carb, vegetarian etc. What people doing keto try to explain is that it is easier to lose on keto because you feel full and not constantly hungry. Fat and in particular protein are satiating so it is hard to overeat, whereas it is easy to eat carb rich foods all day. I have been doing keto for 10 months, it is now a lifestyle, it was a diet for the first few months, I felt great so do not feel I need to change.
Good for you for feeling full on what YOU eat...doesn't change how I feel when I eat or am hungry. I've tried low calorie (and I'm sure many other keto-ers have), but I was always thinking about food and always bargaining to myself (I'll eat this cupcake now but I SWEAR I'll be really good at dinner). Eating carbs for me could lead to me failing and becomes a slippery slope.
And for Froody, from a person who actually keto diets, I don't binge more on keto, but it doesn't disappear. I could eat the whole package of bacon EASILY. As far as cupcakes or something like that if you're referring to carbs, its easier for me to have ZERO cupcake than it is a half a cupcake. In my mind and the way I work, all or nothing is easier for me than partial. Nobody anything says or how they say its too restrictive will change the way my mind thinks.
Oh man, can I relate to this. I used to be the all or nothing person when it came to snack type foods such as cake, cookies, nuts, chips, frozen deserts, and other things. I could not have just one bite, once piece, one serving, one handful of any of these things; I could not even have these things in my house. Then, after reading up how people were losing weight without special diets, i.e. just cutting back on what they ate, I decided to buy a food scale and give this portion control thing a try. I think I tried it with the least threatening food first, which would have been nuts. I logged 28 grams of nuts, weighed them out, put the bag away, and ate the nuts. I recall it being difficult, because I wanted more. Well, I didn't have more.
I have to be careful at parties because I love cookies and cakes and have the propensity to overdo it until I feel sick. If I'm at someone's house and we have desert, I can just have one small piece, log it, and move on. So, I think with the party and overindulgence might have to do with social anxiety or something. Sweets are not bad, it's just that I don't feel well if I stuff myself full of them (or anything else for that matter).
In any event, with each time, portion control got easier. Now, here it is almost two years later and I am still practicing portion control by weighing my food and pre-logging each day. I plan out my meals. I've lost all my weight and have been maintaining for almost a year now.
Of course, we each need to do what works best for us.0 -
This I agree with. At first it's hard to create new habits and though processes around food, but it does get easier with time.for those who don't like keto and have lost weight send me a plan and motivation on what worked for you, would appreciate all HELP, I have tried and failed for 14 years! I am at my wits end! some say diary good for you, but I have asthma/ lung infection that does not work, exercise a pain in the chest! I just want to get this albatross out of my neckand back, sick of being in the obese range, no matter how much I study about eating I cannot seem to put a motivated plan together! something is missing! maybe problem only using 10% brain matter!
1. calculate your TDEE and figure out how many calories per day you maintain on.
2. deduct 500 calories from that number and set MFP to that number of calories per day.
3. buy a food scale and weigh, log, measure everything that you eat.
4. realize that no foods are "bad" food is just energy that your body uses for energy. you can eat the foods that you eat, maintain a deficit, still lose weight.
5. get on some kind of exercise regimen...walking, running, lifting weights, etc.
6. repeat until you get desired results.
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Gale, I've been following your replies about dietary changes that have enhanced your health, especially your lungs. That is awesome.GaleHawkins wrote: »for those who don't like keto and have lost weight send me a plan and motivation on what worked for you, would appreciate all HELP, I have tried and failed for 14 years! I am at my wits end! some say diary good for you, but I have asthma/ lung infection that does not work, exercise a pain in the chest! I just want to get this albatross out of my neckand back, sick of being in the obese range, no matter how much I study about eating I cannot seem to put a motivated plan together! something is missing! maybe problem only using 10% brain matter!
grace I did about three things at the same time so I am not sure what cleared up my chronic lung infection of 20 plus years.
Started by getting heavy into virgin coconut oil (about 4-8 tablespoons a day) which was tough for a few weeks due to the Herxheimer effect I expect. Shortly after starting VCO I started reducing sugar, carbs, grains.
A month ago I go really serious and cut all added sugar and bread and try to hold the carbs to 20 grams a day now.
Not hacking up stuff from the lungs now is worth all my effort. The decrease in my arthritis related pain was my initial goal so that is a huge plus. I have lost about 8 pounds the last month so that is a plus.
grace do not give up. You will find a way forward to your goal to cut some weight.
0 -
bcomingfitmom wrote: »
Most people doing keto think that eating carbs is a recipe for failure! I am a vegetarian, I don't eat meat but I get my protein for the day from plant sources. I have both carbs and protein for each meal and feel full and stay full for upto 3-4 hrsA calorie deficit will work whether keto, high carb, vegetarian etc. What people doing keto try to explain is that it is easier to lose on keto because you feel full and not constantly hungry. Fat and in particular protein are satiating so it is hard to overeat, whereas it is easy to eat carb rich foods all day. I have been doing keto for 10 months, it is now a lifestyle, it was a diet for the first few months, I felt great so do not feel I need to change.
Good for you for feeling full on what YOU eat...doesn't change how I feel when I eat or am hungry. I've tried low calorie (and I'm sure many other keto-ers have), but I was always thinking about food and always bargaining to myself (I'll eat this cupcake now but I SWEAR I'll be really good at dinner). Eating carbs for me could lead to me failing and becomes a slippery slope.
And for Froody, from a person who actually keto diets, I don't binge more on keto, but it doesn't disappear. I could eat the whole package of bacon EASILY. As far as cupcakes or something like that if you're referring to carbs, its easier for me to have ZERO cupcake than it is a half a cupcake. In my mind and the way I work, all or nothing is easier for me than partial. Nobody anything says or how they say its too restrictive will change the way my mind thinks.
Oh man, can I relate to this. I used to be the all or nothing person when it came to snack type foods such as cake, cookies, nuts, chips, frozen deserts, and other things. I could not have just one bite, once piece, one serving, one handful of any of these things; I could not even have these things in my house. Then, after reading up how people were losing weight without special diets, i.e. just cutting back on what they ate, I decided to buy a food scale and give this portion control thing a try. I think I tried it with the least threatening food first, which would have been nuts. I logged 28 grams of nuts, weighed them out, put the bag away, and ate the nuts. I recall it being difficult, because I wanted more. Well, I didn't have more.
I have to be careful at parties because I love cookies and cakes and have the propensity to overdo it until I feel sick. If I'm at someone's house and we have desert, I can just have one small piece, log it, and move on. So, I think with the party and overindulgence might have to do with social anxiety or something. Sweets are not bad, it's just that I don't feel well if I stuff myself full of them (or anything else for that matter).
In any event, with each time, portion control got easier. Now, here it is almost two years later and I am still practicing portion control by weighing my food and pre-logging each day. I plan out my meals. I've lost all my weight and have been maintaining for almost a year now.
Of course, we each need to do what works best for us.
^^This! I have a sweet tooth too. I love all sweets. But I don't want to call it a devil and cut it out of my life! I want to be able to look at it, have a piece and walk off!!
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GaleHawkins wrote: »for those who don't like keto and have lost weight send me a plan and motivation on what worked for you, would appreciate all HELP, I have tried and failed for 14 years! I am at my wits end! some say diary good for you, but I have asthma/ lung infection that does not work, exercise a pain in the chest! I just want to get this albatross out of my neckand back, sick of being in the obese range, no matter how much I study about eating I cannot seem to put a motivated plan together! something is missing! maybe problem only using 10% brain matter!
grace I did about three things at the same time so I am not sure what cleared up my chronic lung infection of 20 plus years.
Started by getting heavy into virgin coconut oil (about 4-8 tablespoons a day) which was tough for a few weeks due to the Herxheimer effect I expect. Shortly after starting VCO I started reducing sugar, carbs, grains.
A month ago I go really serious and cut all added sugar and bread and try to hold the carbs to 20 grams a day now.
Not hacking up stuff from the lungs now is worth all my effort. The decrease in my arthritis related pain was my initial goal so that is a huge plus. I have lost about 8 pounds the last month so that is a plus.
grace do not give up. You will find a way forward to your goal to cut some weight.
Every post you make is about coconut oil.
8 tablespoons of oil is almost 1000 kcals. That's at least half of the average daily intake with no vitamins, fibre or protein.
How is that healthy or in any way satisfying?
OMG...EIGHT tablespoons of Coconut Oil a day. I would need to stay in the bathroom. I'm quite large and more than 2 tablespoons a day and my stomach is paying for it.0 -
Ketosis reminds me of Crossfit
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On the other hand, someone that is predisposed to kidney or liver problems may be exposed to a greater risk of kidney or liver problems if their protein intake is on the high side, and the average protein intake recommended for a healthy individual on these forums and pretty much in any fitness community would expose that the individual predisposed to kidney/liver problems to a higher degree of risk. Thus, one could conclude that even the recommended IIFYM protein intake can (in some rare situations) lead to a greater risk of kidney and liver failure.
What level of protein intake would cause problems for people predisposed to Kidney issues?0 -
On the other hand, someone that is predisposed to kidney or liver problems may be exposed to a greater risk of kidney or liver problems if their protein intake is on the high side, and the average protein intake recommended for a healthy individual on these forums and pretty much in any fitness community would expose that the individual predisposed to kidney/liver problems to a higher degree of risk. Thus, one could conclude that even the recommended IIFYM protein intake can (in some rare situations) lead to a greater risk of kidney and liver failure.
What level of protein intake would cause problems for people predisposed to Kidney issues?
Talk about this to your Nephrologist, of course.
I was asking the person who posted the portion in quotes.0 -
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Out of curiosity, a lot of people say their issues with bingeing disappear on a keto diet, does it take away the emotional attachment to food as well? I'm thinking very overweight people who would describe food as their best friend and major comfort. Do these issues suddenly go away?
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I had a similar thought, which I raised in the other keto thread.
I can see how keto would work for many who have a problem with overeating because they feel overwhelmingly hungry all the time--although even that can be psychological, and I think people should experiment with a variety of ways to control it, as I personally find that it makes a big difference in how satiated I am if I just get enough protein and don't eat carb heavy foods on their own, regardless of how many total carbs I eat. However, my guess is that at least as many overweight people don't eat so much because they are hungry as for other reasons. That was me--mindless eating, stress eating, eating because it was tasty and there, sure. Overwhelmingly or always hungry, no. So keto seems to be a cure to a problem many don't have or could address in other ways.
On the other hand, if carbs don't excite you and eating high fat foods (and particularly bacon every day) seem ideal, it might just be an easy way to create a calorie deficit. Personally, I like cheese and bacon (I mean, I'm human), but have no desire to eat more than I do now.0 -
Personally i tried a keto diet for a few months, ketosis made me so sick. I would vomit, be light headed and get major headaches.
While i lost a lot of weight on the ketogenic diet the side effects were not worth it for me.
If it works for you, i am glad - do whatever does.0
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