Spa owner yells at Mom of Autistic child-Facebook Firestorm

wineplease

Sounds like YOU might be entitled, Wine, if you think $100 isn't high priced for a haircut. It's $20 more than I've ever paid for a haircut, color, AND styling. Wow.

You don't understand the word, then. It has nothing to do with how much you spend on something. It has to do with the attitude one has.

I looked at the price list, and it's not $100 for a haircut. Not sure where you got that info.

Joocey

Hah. So when you said, "Entitled much? I don't find this a "high-priced" place anyway." you weren't being sarcastic? You were, in fact, supporting her in agreement that she is entitled to greater peace because she paid more?

No. I just explained why I used the word entitled. She suggested that because she considered it a high-priced place, she was entitled to not having to be exposed to a crying child. I was not being sarcastic when I said I don't consider that a high-priced place. I don't. Those prices are not high to me.

It's hard to tell if you honestly believe what you're saying or if you're taking great liberties with what you said to avoid making it sound like you belittled her.

When you ask someone if they're "Entitled much?" it comes across as the text equivalent of asking, "Gee aren't you spoiled pretty little princess who wants the world handed to her on a silver platter?" In other words, "Entitled much?" = You are NOT entitled to anything.

IF -- and I don't believe this for a second -- you were simply stating a FACT i.e. that she paid for greater service and thus deserves greater service, there would be (1) no need to ask it as a question; no need to add the modifying "much"; and (3) no need to state it at all. It would simply be a repetition of the literal definition of what she said.

See, for example, if I replied to your post with:

"Deal with the real world much?"

"Think about others much?"

"Make personal attacks much?"

But ultimately, only you know what you meant so I'll stop belaboring this point other than to say that, however you INTENDED it, it came across as CONDESCENDING.

LMT2012

So when the spa owner was hollering at the mother, the post states that the mom, stylist and other patrons were silent/disbelieving. I can't help but wonder what was the kid doing? Perhaps the distraction shut him up too?

Joocey

It doesn't make me feel any better if you are embarrassed and/or aware that your child has spoiled my day.

A crying child spoils your day? Maybe if you changed your attitude about life, little things wouldn't spoil your day do easily.

I was responding to a post where the POSTER said in such a hypothetical situation that they were aware and embarrassed that their child spoiled my day. I made no separate comment on whether a crying child would, in fact, spoil my day.

Maybe if you took the time to read posts more carefully you would stop making unwarranted personal attacks on other posters.

wineplease

But ultimately, only you know what you meant so I'll stop belaboring this point other than to say that, however you INTENDED it, it came across as CONDESCENDING.

I've already told you I was being sarcastic and snarky by saying, "Entitled much"? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Her comment made her sound entitled, so I asked her in a snarky way if she was entitled. Is that better?

frankizoy

upscale spa, her business, her rules. dont bring kids...

she could have handled it better though, she didn't have to yell at them

Joocey

But ultimately, only you know what you meant so I'll stop belaboring this point other than to say that, however you INTENDED it, it came across as CONDESCENDING.

I've already told you I was being sarcastic and snarky by saying, "Entitled much"? I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Her comment made her sound entitled, so I asked her in a snarky way if she was entitled. Is that better?

Then why are you arguing when you agree with me that you were "snidely insulting people who don't want to put up with children raising hell and bothering others as "entitled"."

wineplease

Then why are you arguing when you agree with me that you were "snidely insulting people who don't want to put up with children raising hell and bothering others as "entitled"."

Good grief! The word "entitled" has to do with her thinking that way because she's spending more money.

KristysLosing

thats sad
I was a single parent and not by choice it was leave my kids dad or end up dead
both kids were very young 8 months and 27 months, I could not just leave them and go shopping or whatever only time they had a baby sitter was when i worked. when i needed to go shopping they went if they had a tantrum well i would leave the store with them in tow they quickly learned that having tantrums did not pay

And parents shouldn't leave their kid to do things like shopping and such. Kids will never learn how to act in a situation like that if we don't put them in the situation. My kids are 4 and 5. I have been taking them shopping alone and to sit down restaurants for years. They get a little loud sometimes, which I take care of, but they know how to act. Tantrums are out of our control. What is within our control is how we handle them. I hate the people think a person is doing a bad job because their 2 yr old is throwing a fit. It happens at 2, and there is hardly such a thing as situationally appropriate at this age. I do feel sorry for this mom. Being in that situation is stressful enough. I see both sides...should have taken the kid somewhere kid friendly, but I've heard she's been taking him there for a while. At the same time...I don't know of any place around where we live that is special for kids. I don't know what she has there. I feel the owner handled this very poorly. Even if she was having a bad day, that is no excuse. If I unleash on one of my customers because I'm having a bad day, I'm going to lose my job. I'm obviously not the owner, but the point remains. That is not how you treat your customers, albeit the one making the scene or not. Like I said before...children will not learn how to act in certain places and situations if not put in those places and situations. And they are people too.

Joocey

Then why are you arguing when you agree with me that you were "snidely insulting people who don't want to put up with children raising hell and bothering others as "entitled"."

Good grief! The word "entitled" has to do with her thinking that way because she's spending more money.

Hells Bells!

Raise your hand if you think that paying more for something doesn't entitle you to more than someone who is paying less for the same thing. It's not a "way of thinking". It's what entitlement MEANS.

Unless you routinely pay more for something than necessary without getting something more in return. But that would seem to be the height of foolish consumerism.

MelsAuntie

Then why are you arguing when you agree with me that you were "snidely insulting people who don't want to put up with children raising hell and bothering others as "entitled"."

Good grief! The word "entitled" has to do with her thinking that way because she's spending more money.

Hells Bells!

Raise your hand if you think that paying more for something doesn't entitle you to more than someone who is paying less for the same thing. It's not a "way of thinking". It's what entitlement MEANS.

Unless you routinely pay more for something than necessary without getting something more in return. But that would seem to be the height of foolish consumerism.

VERY well put.

smmadsen

To LauraMc....

Wow! You have a way with words.
I read your thread and felt like we could be sisters.

I especially like the part about being up with a sick child all night and waiting to pick up medicine.
I have come across some really awesome people like the ones on the plane who truly understood about parenting and it really uplifts your spirit about humanity.

Thank you to all the people who know that even the sweetest most loving boy/girl can have a bad day and/or be sick and we all need to offer kindness and sympathy not judgement and opinions.

wineplease

Hells Bells!
Raise your hand if you think that paying more for something doesn't entitle you to more than someone who is paying less for the same thing. It's not a "way of thinking". It's what entitlement MEANS.
Unless you routinely pay more for something than necessary without getting something more in return. But that would seem to be the height of foolish consumerism.

I have no idea what your problem is with my use of that word. Perhaps because I didn't say, "sense of entitlement"?

Sense of Entitlement

Definition:

Sense of Entitlement - An unrealistic, unmerited or inappropriate expectation of favorable living conditions and favorable treatment at the hands of others.

For example, "I expect your baby to not cry around me when I'm paying $50 on a haircut instead of $25".

LauraMacNCheese

To LauraMc....

Wow! You have a way with words.
I read your thread and felt like we could be sisters.

I especially like the part about being up with a sick child all night and waiting to pick up medicine.
I have come across some really awesome people like the ones on the plane who truly understood about parenting and it really uplifts your spirit about humanity.

Thank you to all the people who know that even the sweetest most loving boy/girl can have a bad day and/or be sick and we all need to offer kindness and sympathy not judgement and opinions.

Well thanks

I just sort got the vibe from a lot of posts that people assume when a kid is throwing a fit that it’s just because he/she is being a brat. And if I’m wrong on that account, I apologize…like I said, just a vibe I was getting. I just wanted to point out that no one really knows why the little one is crying. And I think many parents would agree…trying to soothe a toddler once they’re full on into a crying jag is about as easy as catching a greased pig. It’s tough…especially if, for example, an injury is involved. One time, when my daughter was about 5, she was messing around on a curb in the parking lot of Walmart. In the 30 seconds it took me to unbuckle my son from his car seat, she biffed. She fell flat on her face (I can still hear the thud & she’s 11 now) & I think my mom heard her screaming all the way back in PA. I took her inside so we could sit down (by the shopping carts; not actually in the store) and I could look at the injury. Thankfully, she suffered only a few scrapes & a bump; but I got more than one hairy eyeball from people coming in & going out.

Most parents do our best to teach our kids how to behave like civilized beings. But like you said, sometimes they (like many adults) just have a bad day now & then. And you know what, that’s ok. Some people just don’t seem to understand that. Yes, we understand that screaming children aren’t the most pleasant creatures. And many parents have regard for the people around us & try remove our munchkins from the situation to minimize the blast radius of the meltdown. Giving us the stink eye…muttering about uncontrollable children…or outright yelling at us does absolutely NOTHING to resolve the situation.

Many of us are doing our best & if that’s not good enough, well tough! Being a parent is the hardest job a person can have, I think. There are no “mental health” days for us. Sure, we may contemplate what kind of price the gypsies would give us during those meltdowns (just kidding! :bigsmile:). But the bottom line is this…we love our babies & we hate to see them cry just as much as everyone else does. And much as we’d like to, snapping our fingers doesn’t make it stop. Crap…I’m on my soapbox again…my bad.

kcoftx

I just came from an overseas tour. The difference in how people treat children in places of business was vastly different. I can't tell you how many times my children were entertained, etc. while we were busy with trying to do business with various establishments. It certainly was not expected, given our culture, but it was refreshing. Shop and restaurant employees often acted as if my children were a delight and encouraged interaction rather than summarily ignoring them or expecting them to be seen but not heard. That didn't mean that manners weren't expected, but rather that it seemed people understood these were CHILDREN. They also understood that adults still needed to get business done and I often felt my business was appreciated.

I do have a special needs child as well as two that aren't. Regardless of either scenario, I appreciate people treating my children kindly, having compassion, and understanding that they are not mini adults. It takes time for children to learn and grow. It is especially important when I am frazzled and having to work through a meltdown. Yes, we have a variety of types of parents, have a variety of parenting styles, etc. Not all parents are meant to be parents either. But regardless of all of that, one cannot ever judge from a single incident when you see any scenario between parent and child. You don't know the background. It is amazing the level of judgement we have to deal with as parents in our society. It's crippling really. People also need to understand that kids are kids. Stuff happens. Yes, sometimes they even have tantrums over the toy they didn't want. I do agree that there are various ways to reduce the distraction, etc. but again, without knowing the background, you simply cannot know. Not every child responds the same and not every situatiojn can be avoided.

There ARE places I am less likely to take my kids to but this place allows kid haircuts. Kids, whether they have a special need or not, are bound to cry. I would probably not leave mid-haircut. I would, however, do what I could to minimize the impact. I may or may not have thought as clearly to find just the right solution but that doesn't mean I am being a lazy or disrespectful parent. I really do not understand all this hate towards children being children.

I have mixed feelings about the mob mentality against this shop/owner, but there seems to he a history here of being rude, especially to children yet she allows and seems to even advertise children services. (Read other articles). For a business to run, customer service is an important aspect.

Many of you would absolutely hate me. There have been a few moments when I cannot get my child with special needs to vacate the premises easily and often what looks like I am being irresponsible, by standards here, is really some smart therapy techniques I am trying to work through to deescalate so we can leave without further more dramatic escalation that might make the situation much worse. Luckily that's not the case the majority of the time and mostly you will see a well behaved child, but some things can be hit just so and I do my best. Here is the thing, he isn't a 2 year old. The scenario in this thread is common for 2 year olds. Add sensory issues, and it would be even harder. That doesn't mean the child shouldn't get a haircut, especially in a familiar place with advertised children haircuts. Did anyone stop and think that maybe this mom felt this hair stylist was familiar, had more compassion or maybe the noisier places would be more traumatic for the child? If the place catered to adults only, I might understand. This one didn't. Even if it did, the shop owner's behavior, as it is presented to us, was uncalled for.

I would MUCH rather deal with being exposed to a child having a meltdown than the hoards of rude adults we encounter all the time. Oh wait, that's acceptable.

Joocey

But regardless of all of that, one cannot ever judge from a single incident when you see any scenario between parent and child. You don't know the background. It is amazing the level of judgement we have to deal with as parents in our society. It's crippling really. People also need to understand that kids are kids. Stuff happens. Yes, sometimes they even have tantrums over the toy they didn't want. I do agree that there are various ways to reduce the distraction, etc. but again, without knowing the background, you simply cannot know. Not every child responds the same and not every situatiojn can be avoided.

That's all true, but do you expect a bystander to know the background for your child's tantrum? Without being overly callous, the end result and impact on my life is the same regardless of the background.

Again, for example, if you rear end my car, it doesn't matter overly much whether you did it because you were texting, or drunk, or distracted, or swerving to avoid a dog, or fell asleep because of untreatable narcolepsy. You still rear-ended me.

Now, afterward, if you want to explain the background to me, perhaps I'll be understanding and I agree that once the background is known, you should probably expect a certain degree of understanding from others in a polite society. If you tell me that, "Sorry, this is what's going on, and you're trying your best, etc." I'll probably nod and say it's not a problem.

I've also experienced the opposite spectrum, however, when I asked a woman to please restrain her child from kicking me and my bag while waiting in line, and the only response I got was was "He's autistic". As in: YOU deal with it.

I have mixed feelings about the mob mentality against this shop/owner, but there seems to he a history here of being rude, especially to children yet she allows and seems to even advertise children services. (Read other articles). For a business to run, customer service is an important aspect.

If you have mixed feelings about it, I have no issue with you since it's not a black and white situation. My issue is with the indignant outrage.

I would MUCH rather deal with being exposed to a child having a meltdown than the hoards of rude adults we encounter all the time. Oh wait, that's acceptable.

Neither are acceptable. Rude adults are worse than melting... er, down children. Because the adults should know better.

KatLifter

I have mixed feelings about the mob mentality against this shop/owner, but there seems to he a history here of being rude, especially to children yet she allows and seems to even advertise children services. (Read other articles). For a business to run, customer service is an important aspect.

If you have mixed feelings about it, I have no issue with you since it's not a black and white situation. My issue is with the indignant outrage.

I got sick of this tread about 10 pages ago, but this sums it up really well.

wineplease

I got sick of this tread about 10 pages ago, but this sums it up really well.

So sick of it, you had to keep coming back to read and comment?

KatLifter

I got sick of this tread about 10 pages ago, but this sums it up really well.

So sick of it, you had to keep coming back to read and comment?

I'm sorry for whatever you're going through so you feel it is necessary to come online and attack people. Hope it gets better.

SteveJWatson

upscale spa, her business, her rules. dont bring kids...

Or blacks, gays, transsexuals, Jews ... Once you start that list of exclusions, it's all downhill from there.

And there we go folks, taking it to the extreme with comparisions that really don't compare.
No kids allowed leads directly to homophobia and racism everytime. :huh:

Well kids are their own ethnicity group apparently........

Well, no. Just like transsexuals or gays aren't their own ethnic group. They all are, however sections of society and discrimination against them is distatseful to say the least.

I have a child - sometimes they act out, even the best-behaved child in the world has the occasional meltdown, its what children do.

The planet is full of sounds - the rooster crows in the morning, dogs bark, birds sing, aint nothing we can to to change that, I suggest if you don't like it you become a hermit or something.

Having said all that - I have never been to a spa, upscale or otherwise, all seems a bit wankerish to me.

(edited to change cockerel to rooster because MFP is somewhat overzealous on perceived expletives).

wineplease

I'm sorry for whatever you're going through so you feel it is necessary to come online and attack people. Hope it gets better.

I was being sarcastic; not attacking you. Funny how you're okay with some of the ugly comments people are making about kids and parents here, but when I comment questioning their comments, I'm seen as "attacking".

KatLifter

I'm sorry for whatever you're going through so you feel it is necessary to come online and attack people. Hope it gets better.

I was being sarcastic; not attacking you. Funny how you're okay with some of the ugly comments people are making about kids and parents here, but when I comment questioning their comments, I'm seen as "attacking".

I'm not - as I said in my post on the last page. That is why I walked away from it.
Your comment was directly nasty to me. That is what I was referring to.

Once again, hope it all gets better.

Joreanasaurous

It doesn't make me feel any better if you are embarrassed and/or aware that your child has spoiled my day.

A crying child spoils your day? Maybe if you changed your attitude about life, little things wouldn't spoil your day do easily.

Try spending an 11 hour flight sitting next to a screaming child that rips out one of your earrings while the mom tells you how adorable their angel is. Pretty sure that screaming spawn of Satan ruined my day as well as everyone else on the flight and it would take the attitude of a saint not to feel that way

squindles

I got sick of this tread about 10 pages ago, but this sums it up really well.

So sick of it, you had to keep coming back to read and comment?

I'm sorry for whatever you're going through so you feel it is necessary to come online and attack people. Hope it gets better.

Why are you so upperty? You criticised my post. I thought we were supposed to reply to the op's post NOT other people's comments? You're just plain nasty in my opinion and I don't even know you. Sorry, but don't give out snarky comments then act all innocent when posters pull you up over it........nuff said :yawn:

KatLifter

I got sick of this tread about 10 pages ago, but this sums it up really well.

So sick of it, you had to keep coming back to read and comment?

I'm sorry for whatever you're going through so you feel it is necessary to come online and attack people. Hope it gets better.

Why are you so upperty? You criticised my post. I thought we were supposed to reply to the op's post NOT other people's comments? You're just plain nasty in my opinion and I don't even know you. Sorry, but don't give out snarky comments then act all innocent when posters pull you up over it........nuff said :yawn:

Yours was an example of "upperty" outraged people behind keyboards. I asked what good it does to get outraged from thousands ofmiles away.
The post I agreed with on the last page that lead to a personal attack said, "My issue is with the indignant outrage." Same issue.

wineplease

The post I agreed with on the last page that lead to a personal attack said, "My issue is with the indignant outrage." Same issue.

You said you were sick of this thread on page 10, but then you added a comment. I quoted the part about you being sick of the thread and said something about you reading it and posting anyway. If that is what you consider a personal attack, you must not use internet forums often.

Mustang_Susie

I would welcome the temper tantrum of a child any day compared to the one's the "adults" are having on this thread.

jofjltncb6

Happy birthday, Lea!




ETA: Whoops, sorry...

...wrong thread.

LauraMacNCheese

Happy birthday!




ETA: Whoops, sorry...

...wrong thread.

wineplease

Happy birthday, Lea!ETA: Whoops, sorry......wrong thread.

That's all you got???? I'm disappointed!