Spa owner yells at Mom of Autistic child-Facebook Firestorm
Replies
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Then you obviously do not understand the remarkable power of the "HB, L!"
I think the logic behind "HB, L" would shut down almost every thread.
I give up!! HB, L! Here have a cookie... hope you don't mind that my sweet baby girl helped make them.... :drinker:0 -
Your examples don't match up though. Those other causes are all illegal and not part of normal development.
Part of living in a community is living with others. Sure we have societal expectations. I just think it is sad that many in this thread are so rigid in those expectations given something that is developmentally appropriate to the community members they are mingling with.
Swerving to avoid a dog resulting in an accident probably isn't illegal, but just to be sure pretend I said swerving to avoid an out of control schoolbus of schoolchildren and nuns carrying emergency relief funds to impoverished third-world countries. :laugh:But even if we take the disability out of it and just focus on a crying 2 year old, I find it sad that we definitely have a lot of ageism here (whether it is a protected class or not) to the point that we can't deal with NORMAL behavior without having tantrums of our own, internal or otherwise. Again, a little patience goes a long way.
It's not so much that I can't deal with it. I can deal with a lot of things. But I don't have to like it. And, if there is an option available, I would prefer not to deal with it. So it's like... okay, let's say your 2-year old cries 24/7 for some reason. But you have to bring him on a plane to visit your deceased whatever like said above. Well that sucks for me but... you gotta do what you gotta do, right? So I can have a corresponding amount of understanding and compassion.
But what if you're bringing him to a spa -- a real spa with towels wrapped around heads and cucumber slices on the eyes and people wearing fluffy slippers to get away from the grind. And you decide to bring your crying 2-year old. You don't gotta do that so much! So not as much understanding and very little compassion from me.I find it interesting that the children are expected to forgo individuality and even normal reflexes because they are expected to conform to community standards and basic be perfect mini adults (even though adults aren't) but adults are expected to have things catered to them as individuals even though they live in a community. We as a society fluctuate on a continuum of individualistic stance vs. community stance. Regardless of where in the continuum you place your ideologies, both exist.
(I'm not sure the last paragraph conveys what I'm trying to say so if you pick it apart, I'm okay. It might add clarity, even if I don't agree with everyone's stance in this continuum).
I get what you're saying, but it's situational. See above. Kids can be kids in places where kids are supposed to be kids. But if you're bringing a kid to an adult environment, they should behave like adults... or not be there. The exact same applies with adults. An adult at a football game is not the same as an adult meeting the CEO of a Fortune 500 company is not the same as an adult at the playground with his kid.
I disagree completely with what you, and other posters, say about how somehow adults are excluded from these rules. They are not. To take just one example, adults that are disruptive on planes are also removed. I fail to see where there is "catering" to adults that somehow isn't situationally dependent. If I were to walk into an arcade or theme park and demand that all the children be quiet, I doubt anyone would cater to me.
http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/05/14/woman-removed-from-plane-for-refusing-to-stop-singing-a-whitney-houston-song/0 -
It impacted you enough to comment in the thread about it. . . more than once. Are you local, or is your response somehow different?O my word I can't stop :sad: :sad: :sad: How thoroughly DISGUSTING :mad: I think EVERYBODY who reads this should let this salon owner know how horrible she is! What an awful world we live in............................
How exactly will that help? Yes it is terrible. No, sadly I don't think it is all that unusual. But how will people raging from thousands of miles away impact that woman? Sharing it locally and with people who can impact her business - absolutely.0 -
As one of said former special needs child(epilepsy , adrenal hyperplasia, and fused kidneys), I blame both parties. The owner was way out of line to yell at the childs mother like that. If it was already known by staff and owner the child was on the spectrum then plans should of been made to make said child as comfy as possible. At the same time it was the moms job to do the same for her child. The child could of been taken into a quieter space for his hair cut. He could of been given the first or last time slot. Both the mom and salon owner acted stupidly in their own way.
My mother advoided places with flashing lights with me when possible because I was moderately photo sensetive when small. Why? Common sense , avoid the big flashy trigger.0 -
I work at a salon as a receptionist and I've seen it all. Kids messing around with k cup machines and over flowing hot chocolate everywhere, throwing toys around the waiting room, demanding candies, awkwardly staring at other guests for uncomfortable amounts of time, fighting with siblings to the point that they come to blows, and just generally being annoying, but business is business. We don't refuse anybody if we have time for them and if someone complains (which is never), we give them a discount for their troubles. Looks like the owner needs to adjust her business model to one that fits her needs and leave her temper and her paying costumers out of it.0
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Joocey, I actually don't disagree with the situational factor. I don't see it nearly as rigid as some do, but in the case of an upscale spa with no children services offered, etc., I agree with your point.. From what I read, despite the name, this is not really one of those places. Furthermore, from what I understand, there were children services offered as part of the business services. There was also mentions of this not being the first child the woman was rude to, despite her business offerings. I don't live there though. I can't see the signs to verify.0
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Autism is irrelevant in what I am talking about. If your child has autism that doesn't make it excusable for you to just sit back, relax and let them run around raising hell and bothering everyone else in a restaurant, theatre, etc.
Who said anything about letting children run around raising hell and bothering others as being ok?
several people in this thread actually.
Who do you perceive as saying this?
Im not going back through the thread and finding them but the ones that said "I have every right to be out with my kid even if they are screaming, yelling, throwing a fit, etc." NO, you have a right to get your brat in line so everyone else doesn't have to suffer.
If you be so kind as to clarify:
Are you implying that the same parents with kids who "are screaming, yelling, throwing a fit, etc." are ALWAYS the same parents who "sit back, relax and let them run around raising hell and bothering everyone else in a restaurant, theatre, etc."?
Thank you.0 -
Ok since people don't want to handle this reasonably I'm going to be blunt. Was the owner an *kitten*? Yes. Was her behavior unacceptable? Yes. Could something pf been done to put the kid in a less stimulating enviorement for his hair cut ? Most likely. Should it of been offered by the staff or requested by the mother? Deffinitly. Could the kid of been given a closing or opening slot if nothing else? Yes! But some of this blame lays on the mother as well.
Just like my mother knew that certain things triggered my seizures and them worse so did this mother know that things can trigger her sons freaking out. My room had to have an AC during summer, and up until I was 8 flashing lights were an expose at your own risk thing. Did I go to chuckee cheese like a normal 90's baby? Yup, I sure did. But if either heat or flashing lights made my seizures worse my mother took responsablity. She was the one who controled my enviorment so it was up to her to make the right choices till I was old enough to help. And dispite this I got to go camping, fishing, ride bikes, play baseball and basket ball with our neihbores and climb trees.
It is is both the same and different for a child on the spectrum. The poor kid already has senses that are hyper aware of everything in the extreme. And a lot of kids like that are mute. The easiest way I can explain it is that the child is like a sentinal from the series of the same name, only mute. And without the ability to control their senses.0 -
In the case of this child both mom and business owner should of made better choices. The owner could of not been an *kitten* , and the mom could of asked for the cut to take place in a quieter setting when booking the appointment.0
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Maybe the spa owner was having a bad day, or was unaware that the child was autistic. When events like this are blown out of proportion, it's harder, not easier, for the actual human beings involved to admit their mistakes, and maybe, just possibly, make amends.0
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ugh. i hate mean people. aaf.0
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WOW the world would be way better if we all tried to get along, and everybody relized kids will be kids and adults should know better then have a tantrum because a child cries. My kids are grown and never has a child crying, tantrum or any other action has ever ruined my day of what ever i am doing. The only time someone can ruin your day is if you allow them to.
I would much rather put up with a child worst tantrum then to see a adult act like a child having a tantrum
children learn that it is not right and an adult should already know
Come on Adults lets be adults and those of you who think it should be your way grow up
But why should other people out enjoying their day have to put up with someone else's sex trophy acting like a wild animal?
I did not say children should be allowed to misbehave but most parents try to teach thier child it is not proper behavior and with the correct guidance the kids learn not to misbehave. Parents can not predict when thier child will act up. Believe me if they could we would see alot less kids crying and bisbehaving in public.
That being said I have seen way worse misbehaving from ADULTS who SHOULD know better and a much worse scene then a child ever could.
Ever go to a NICE restraunt and sit accross from a table where the ADULTS are all drunk and MISBEHAVING ? I have and tell you what would rather sit across from a CHILD on thier worst behavior, at least the parent will be trying to stop it. So who is going to stop the adult from making a scene interupting everyones meal and being very inappropriate in almost everyway? The manager? the Waitress? the Police?
most of the time a child can be calmed down or easily removed from the scene
a adult much harder and you don't have a parent trying to calm them down and about the only way to remove the adult is to get physical
I don't have a problem with asking the adult to shut their pie hole, try saying that to someone else's kid. My problem isn't with the parents who's kid cries or acts up and they attempt to correct it. My problem is with the kid that is acting like an untrained monkey and the parent just goes on about their day like nothing is happening.0 -
wow....this is still going?! I was gone all yesterday --- very curious to see others' pov on the subject0
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O my word I can't stop :sad: :sad: :sad: How thoroughly DISGUSTING :mad: I think EVERYBODY who reads this should let this salon owner know how horrible she is! What an awful world we live in............................
How exactly will that help? Yes it is terrible. No, sadly I don't think it is all that unusual. But how will people raging from thousands of miles away impact that woman? Sharing it locally and with people who can impact her business - absolutely.
You're right, it is not all that unusual. That is why it is important to raise awareness of how people (not just children) with an invisible disability such as autism are treated in society.
We need to be more tolerant of people who display behaviour that may be considered "strange" by people who are neurotypical.
People who are autistic learn from the way they are treated. If they are treated in this way, they learn that it's OK to treat people like this. People with autism are amazing when you get to know them. They often build a wealth of knowledge of their "specialist subject" and can be incredibly intelligent even though they have communication difficulties.
Check out www.lottieharland.com. This young lady has Autism. One of her favourite sayings is "Autism is not a disability, it's a different ability". Another favourite saying is "Don't dis- my ability!" She not only represents her country in sport but is also an A student at school. However, at school she is often taunted with calls of "Retard" or other such vile names. She is a member of Mensa - the high IQ society.
Awareness must be raised of this all around the world so that it becomes unacceptable to ridicule anyone for behaviour that is just not considered "the norm".
Edited to add:
Having said that I don't think this was about the child having autism. It was about a child having a tantrum which usually happens at the most inopportune of moments (I'm sure most parents will agree). If the spa allowed children then it has to accept that occasionally a child will have a tantrum. If they don't want children in there, they should change the rules. IMO, owner was out of order. She should have just made a note to change the spa rules to not allow children in the future so that it doesn't happen again.0 -
If a salon does not cater to children, then signage should state that. We have several salons that tell you on their websites and their doors that this is a policy. Since this woman and her son have been there many times before, the salon obviously has had no trouble taking their money for the services rendered. The time to address this would have been on a past visit where the child had cried. The manager should have tactfully and quietly told the mother that perhaps this wasn't the best environment for her son.
Instead the owner not only made the mother uncomfortable (and that is an understatement), but she also disturbed all of her other clients who were there and caused them to take sides. I'm sure the owner felt she was in the right and that she handled it appropriately.
What is interesting is that the account was from a witness to the event who had no vested interest in it. Therefore one cannot even acuse the poster as being biased.0 -
upscale spa, her business, her rules. dont bring kids...
You are 100% correct. In fact I won't go either. That should make her business a lot simpler to manage.0 -
How did a toddler crying on his mother's lap turn into a screaming, tantrum throwing, hethen? haha
Like others picked up on, the term "upscale" may be a bit exaggerated for this salon btw
Bottom line: the owner's actions were unacceptable
And to update: within less than a week, the Facebook firestorm has died down - I haven't seen any new posts0 -
And to update: within less than a week, the Facebook firestorm has died down - I haven't seen any new posts
that's about how it goes... for a day or two everyone is enraged about it, then they are are tired of hearing about it, then everyone finds something new to be enraged in.0 -
upscale spa, her business, her rules. dont bring kids...
That according to the follow up this woman had been taking her son for quite a while with no problems. One incident is no reason for this woman to be hateful and cruel to her client. She made a fool of herself in her Upscale spa. Apparently to be "Upscale" you should have no class or manners? She could have handled it much better than that.0 -
Oh my !0
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upscale spa, her business, her rules. dont bring kids...
I kind of agree with this. If you KNOW your child is autistic and special needs then perhaps the mother should have sought out a more kid friendly place, like Supercuts. It is a two way street. The woman was DEAD WRONG to yell at any woman with a toddler, my son was scarred with his first hair cut as well. The mother was also wrong by taking her autisitic toddler to an upscale spa and expecting people to be accomidating to a tantrumic child in an adult atmoshpere. All this DOES not excuse any woman from yelling at a mother with a tot, but the mother is partly to blame. As a business owner she should have spoken privately to the woman or arranged to move the haircutting operation to another part of the facility as the hair cut was already in progress. There was a million in one things the owner could have done. She clearly failed professionally. However, the mother should have known better. It would be nice if the world was made of rainbows and every one was kind and understanding but they are not.
That being said, if I were the boys mom, or a customer who saw her unprofessionalism I would have cause a SCENE. Still there was some parental responsiblity lacking here.
Did any of you stop to think that this mother paid the money to take her son there because it might be a little less stress inducing to the child??? Usually spas have soothing music, etc. and a more therapeutic atmosphere. Sometimes a "kid friendly" place is the last place you want to take an autistic child. Way too much stimuli.0 -
I had a woman yell at me to take my son and have him put down because she said he had hurt her little girl at preschool. he was not quite 3 years old at the time and the preschool staff were not aware that anything had happened, the little girl, who was older, had gone home to her Mum and said he hurt her, so the next day she met me in the entrance to the school and started yelling at screaming at him and me that he was an animal and various other things, I was so shocked and distraught I did not know what to do, so I left taking my terribly upset son, who is also autistic
When we got home he sat with his back to the front door so that 'bad lady' could not get him
I hope that karma comes her way big style
My son is now 20 years old and a very fine young man with a good job0 -
Too bad that Kalamazoo is so far from where I live...I'd go there just to balance this out a little. I need to find a new hairstylist, mine has quit doing hair.0
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How did a toddler crying on his mother's lap turn into a screaming, tantrum throwing, hethen? haha
Like others picked up on, the term "upscale" may be a bit exaggerated for this salon btw
Bottom line: the owner's actions were unacceptable
And to update: within less than a week, the Facebook firestorm has died down - I haven't seen any new posts
Thats because all FB is now is a bunch of fake crap for people to get riled up about.0 -
WOW the world would be way better if we all tried to get along, and everybody relized kids will be kids and adults should know better then have a tantrum because a child cries. My kids are grown and never has a child crying, tantrum or any other action has ever ruined my day of what ever i am doing. The only time someone can ruin your day is if you allow them to.
I would much rather put up with a child worst tantrum then to see a adult act like a child having a tantrum
children learn that it is not right and an adult should already know
Come on Adults lets be adults and those of you who think it should be your way grow up
But why should other people out enjoying their day have to put up with someone else's sex trophy acting like a wild animal?
I did not say children should be allowed to misbehave but most parents try to teach thier child it is not proper behavior and with the correct guidance the kids learn not to misbehave. Parents can not predict when thier child will act up. Believe me if they could we would see alot less kids crying and bisbehaving in public.
That being said I have seen way worse misbehaving from ADULTS who SHOULD know better and a much worse scene then a child ever could.
Ever go to a NICE restraunt and sit accross from a table where the ADULTS are all drunk and MISBEHAVING ? I have and tell you what would rather sit across from a CHILD on thier worst behavior, at least the parent will be trying to stop it. So who is going to stop the adult from making a scene interupting everyones meal and being very inappropriate in almost everyway? The manager? the Waitress? the Police?
most of the time a child can be calmed down or easily removed from the scene
a adult much harder and you don't have a parent trying to calm them down and about the only way to remove the adult is to get physical
I don't have a problem with asking the adult to shut their pie hole, try saying that to someone else's kid. My problem isn't with the parents who's kid cries or acts up and they attempt to correct it. My problem is with the kid that is acting like an untrained monkey and the parent just goes on about their day like nothing is happening.
every try to tell a drunk to shut there "pie hole"
have you ever asked a parent to keep there child quiet.
i would rather walk over hot coals then try and shut up a drunk or an adult who is having a tantrum.
yes there are some parents out there that think thier child can' do no wrong
but worse there are adults out there that think the world revolves around them
guess what those are probly the kids that the parents thought they could do no wrong
Listening to both sides of a story will convince you that there is more to a story than both sides.Did any of you stop to think that this mother paid the money to take her son there because it might be a little less stress inducing to the child??? Usually spas have soothing music, etc. and a more therapeutic atmosphere. Sometimes a "kid friendly" place is the last place you want to take an autistic child. Way too much stimuli.0 -
WOW the world would be way better if we all tried to get along, and everybody relized kids will be kids and adults should know better then have a tantrum because a child cries. My kids are grown and never has a child crying, tantrum or any other action has ever ruined my day of what ever i am doing. The only time someone can ruin your day is if you allow them to.
I would much rather put up with a child worst tantrum then to see a adult act like a child having a tantrum
children learn that it is not right and an adult should already know
Come on Adults lets be adults and those of you who think it should be your way grow up
But why should other people out enjoying their day have to put up with someone else's sex trophy acting like a wild animal?
I did not say children should be allowed to misbehave but most parents try to teach thier child it is not proper behavior and with the correct guidance the kids learn not to misbehave. Parents can not predict when thier child will act up. Believe me if they could we would see alot less kids crying and bisbehaving in public.
That being said I have seen way worse misbehaving from ADULTS who SHOULD know better and a much worse scene then a child ever could.
Ever go to a NICE restraunt and sit accross from a table where the ADULTS are all drunk and MISBEHAVING ? I have and tell you what would rather sit across from a CHILD on thier worst behavior, at least the parent will be trying to stop it. So who is going to stop the adult from making a scene interupting everyones meal and being very inappropriate in almost everyway? The manager? the Waitress? the Police?
most of the time a child can be calmed down or easily removed from the scene
a adult much harder and you don't have a parent trying to calm them down and about the only way to remove the adult is to get physical
I don't have a problem with asking the adult to shut their pie hole, try saying that to someone else's kid. My problem isn't with the parents who's kid cries or acts up and they attempt to correct it. My problem is with the kid that is acting like an untrained monkey and the parent just goes on about their day like nothing is happening.
everytry to tell a drunk to shut there "pie hole"
have you ever asked a parent to keep there child quiet.
i would rather walk over hot coals then try and shut up a drunk or an adult who is having a tantrum.
yes there are some parents out there that think thier child can' do no wrong
but worse there are adults out there that think the world revolves around them
guess what those are probly the kids that the parents thought they could do no wrong
Listening to both sides of a story will convince you that there is more to a story than both sides.
I actually have told drunks that they are annoying and to please keep it down. They are people too, they can be spoken to even when they are drinking. I have also asked parents to keep their kid under control. The one that comes to mind is when a kid kept kicking me in line and I asked his dad to make him stop. After the third time I asked I told the dad that if he kicked me one more time that he (the dad, obviously not the kid) was gonna be eating some of his own teeth if his kid kicked me again. I didn't get kicked anymore.0 -
All I know, is I would take a kid having a tantrum on a Greyhound bus over my underaged drunk/high partying neighbors I had live in the apartment below me during college...
Or the frat boys that lived above me... now that was "fun".... at least a kid in a public place is temporary...0 -
All I know, is I would take a kid having a tantrum on a Greyhound bus over my underaged drunk/high partying neighbors I had live in the apartment below me during college...
Or the frat boys that lived above me... now that was "fun".... at least a kid in a public place is temporary...
It's pretty easy to call the cops on those people.0 -
We're hearing one side of the story.
Apparently, the owner didn't know the boy was autistic till after the tongue lashing. I hear people speak of children while waiting in line for whatever, about how bad other people's children behave without inquiring if the child is autistic or not.
Just in defense of the owner, maybe she was having a bad day and it set her off. Somehow that doesn't happen to good people?
I've handled things bad on occasion due to being miffed at something else. Nothing personal against the person it was directed toward, it was just anger that I vented wrong.
If we as a society are just going to accept that one side of the story is completely right without objectively listening to the other side, then we're back to witch hunts again.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
This is the most realistic rational answer I've read thus far. Although it does not excuse her behavior.0 -
WOW the world would be way better if we all tried to get along, and everybody relized kids will be kids and adults should know better then have a tantrum because a child cries. My kids are grown and never has a child crying, tantrum or any other action has ever ruined my day of what ever i am doing. The only time someone can ruin your day is if you allow them to.
I would much rather put up with a child worst tantrum then to see a adult act like a child having a tantrum
children learn that it is not right and an adult should already know
Come on Adults lets be adults and those of you who think it should be your way grow up
But why should other people out enjoying their day have to put up with someone else's sex trophy acting like a wild animal?
I did not say children should be allowed to misbehave but most parents try to teach thier child it is not proper behavior and with the correct guidance the kids learn not to misbehave. Parents can not predict when thier child will act up. Believe me if they could we would see alot less kids crying and bisbehaving in public.
That being said I have seen way worse misbehaving from ADULTS who SHOULD know better and a much worse scene then a child ever could.
Ever go to a NICE restraunt and sit accross from a table where the ADULTS are all drunk and MISBEHAVING ? I have and tell you what would rather sit across from a CHILD on thier worst behavior, at least the parent will be trying to stop it. So who is going to stop the adult from making a scene interupting everyones meal and being very inappropriate in almost everyway? The manager? the Waitress? the Police?
most of the time a child can be calmed down or easily removed from the scene
a adult much harder and you don't have a parent trying to calm them down and about the only way to remove the adult is to get physical
I don't have a problem with asking the adult to shut their pie hole, try saying that to someone else's kid. My problem isn't with the parents who's kid cries or acts up and they attempt to correct it. My problem is with the kid that is acting like an untrained monkey and the parent just goes on about their day like nothing is happening.
everytry to tell a drunk to shut there "pie hole"
have you ever asked a parent to keep there child quiet.
i would rather walk over hot coals then try and shut up a drunk or an adult who is having a tantrum.
yes there are some parents out there that think thier child can' do no wrong
but worse there are adults out there that think the world revolves around them
guess what those are probly the kids that the parents thought they could do no wrong
Listening to both sides of a story will convince you that there is more to a story than both sides.
I actually have told drunks that they are annoying and to please keep it down. They are people too, they can be spoken to even when they are drinking. I have also asked parents to keep their kid under control. The one that comes to mind is when a kid kept kicking me in line and I asked his dad to make him stop. After the third time I asked I told the dad that if he kicked me one more time that he (the dad, obviously not the kid) was gonna be eating some of his own teeth if his kid kicked me again. I didn't get kicked anymore.
think most people will agree with me that most drunks cannot be reasoned with
last time i asked a drunk to quiet down I got beat by a tire iron was in the hospital for 2 weeks and physical therapy for 5 months
at least a child will not do that kind of damage thier behavior my be annoying at times but harmless0
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