20 year old girl wanting to gain muscle, need advice!
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LolBroScience wrote: »ScottJTyler wrote: »Wait...is that... a regular shooting something down?
You also did not actually recommend a program...just spreading what she is doing...no note or suggestions re progression of specificity ..just..coz volume apparently trumps errything, and muscle gains are only limited to the volume you can get in...errr..but frequency too.
True I should have thought up and written down a whole progression plan. Mesocycles, deloads, the lot. Then I could go round and help her re rack the weights, cook her meals, etc.
I'm giving simple advice on a forum. That advice is: more frequency.
Waiting for stock reply "LOL, you're wrong!"
So... you state that volume is king, but you recommend increasing frequency through splitting up the current routine? Did I miss something? Wouldn't volume be held constant then?
He is comparing it to SL for example.
What he has continually been ignoring/missing/whatever, is that after a certain amount of reps throughout a period, more volume becomes useless for muscle growth and ends up counter-productive due to fatigue (i.e. you will not build less muscle directly from excessive volume, but you fatigue yourself more for no additional benefit, which is not a good thing).
For example, his argument is that 300 reps over a week > 100 reps as you get 300 reps 'worth of muscle growth' v 100 reps 'worth of muscle growth' - this is just not correct, and double not correct for women. There is a cap on how much muscle you can grow over a certain period and you just cannot force more by more volume/frequency/reps.
Hence my comment of more is not always better, which he categorically disagreed with.
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LolBroScience wrote: »ScottJTyler wrote: »Wait...is that... a regular shooting something down?
You also did not actually recommend a program...just spreading what she is doing...no note or suggestions re progression of specificity ..just..coz volume apparently trumps errything, and muscle gains are only limited to the volume you can get in...errr..but frequency too.
True I should have thought up and written down a whole progression plan. Mesocycles, deloads, the lot. Then I could go round and help her re rack the weights, cook her meals, etc.
I'm giving simple advice on a forum. That advice is: more frequency.
Waiting for stock reply "LOL, you're wrong!"
So... you state that volume is king, but you recommend increasing frequency through splitting up the current routine? Did I miss something? Wouldn't volume be held constant then?
He is comparing it to SL for example.
What he has continually been ignoring/missing/whatever, is that after a certain amount of reps throughout a period, more volume becomes useless for muscle growth and ends up counter-productive due to fatigue (i.e. you will not build less muscle directly from excessive volume, but you fatigue yourself more for no additional benefit, which is not a good thing).
For example, his argument is that 300 reps over a week > 100 reps as you get 300 reps 'worth of muscle growth' v 100 reps 'worth of muscle growth' - this is just not correct, and double not correct for women. There is a cap on how much muscle you can grow over a certain period and you just cannot force more by more volume/frequency/reps.
Hence my comment of more is not always better, which he categorically disagreed with.
Sure, I understand. Train smarter not harder.
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maybe increase your fat intake by 5%? You're getting enough protein it seems and also, increase your calories by 200 or so every 2 weeks until you find the amount that helps you gain weight. Also pay attention to what calorie amount you need to maintain so when you're ready to do that you can go back to that calorie amount without worrying about much.0
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LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »ScottJTyler wrote: »Wait...is that... a regular shooting something down?
You also did not actually recommend a program...just spreading what she is doing...no note or suggestions re progression of specificity ..just..coz volume apparently trumps errything, and muscle gains are only limited to the volume you can get in...errr..but frequency too.
True I should have thought up and written down a whole progression plan. Mesocycles, deloads, the lot. Then I could go round and help her re rack the weights, cook her meals, etc.
I'm giving simple advice on a forum. That advice is: more frequency.
Waiting for stock reply "LOL, you're wrong!"
So... you state that volume is king, but you recommend increasing frequency through splitting up the current routine? Did I miss something? Wouldn't volume be held constant then?
He is comparing it to SL for example.
What he has continually been ignoring/missing/whatever, is that after a certain amount of reps throughout a period, more volume becomes useless for muscle growth and ends up counter-productive due to fatigue (i.e. you will not build less muscle directly from excessive volume, but you fatigue yourself more for no additional benefit, which is not a good thing).
For example, his argument is that 300 reps over a week > 100 reps as you get 300 reps 'worth of muscle growth' v 100 reps 'worth of muscle growth' - this is just not correct, and double not correct for women. There is a cap on how much muscle you can grow over a certain period and you just cannot force more by more volume/frequency/reps.
Hence my comment of more is not always better, which he categorically disagreed with.
Sure, I understand. Train smarter not harder.
Yep. A point that seems to be sorely missed by him.
I know you 'get it', but was trying to explain what I was trying to say in a different way as he just was not getting it, at all. Train smarter not harder sums it up.
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LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »ScottJTyler wrote: »Wait...is that... a regular shooting something down?
You also did not actually recommend a program...just spreading what she is doing...no note or suggestions re progression of specificity ..just..coz volume apparently trumps errything, and muscle gains are only limited to the volume you can get in...errr..but frequency too.
True I should have thought up and written down a whole progression plan. Mesocycles, deloads, the lot. Then I could go round and help her re rack the weights, cook her meals, etc.
I'm giving simple advice on a forum. That advice is: more frequency.
Waiting for stock reply "LOL, you're wrong!"
So... you state that volume is king, but you recommend increasing frequency through splitting up the current routine? Did I miss something? Wouldn't volume be held constant then?
He is comparing it to SL for example.
What he has continually been ignoring/missing/whatever, is that after a certain amount of reps throughout a period, more volume becomes useless for muscle growth and ends up counter-productive due to fatigue (i.e. you will not build less muscle directly from excessive volume, but you fatigue yourself more for no additional benefit, which is not a good thing).
For example, his argument is that 300 reps over a week > 100 reps as you get 300 reps 'worth of muscle growth' v 100 reps 'worth of muscle growth' - this is just not correct, and double not correct for women. There is a cap on how much muscle you can grow over a certain period and you just cannot force more by more volume/frequency/reps.
Hence my comment of more is not always better, which he categorically disagreed with.
Sure, I understand. Train smarter not harder.
Yep. A point that seems to be sorely missed by him.
I know you 'get it', but was trying to explain what I was trying to say in a different way as he just was not getting it, at all. Train smarter not harder sums it up.
All good! I didn't read through the entire thread since I had seen too many derpy comments by him. I missed the context huehuehuheuhehuhe.
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JeffseekingV wrote: »jaimesparkman wrote: »
what muscle group am I missing?rainbowbow wrote: »Two things:
One, eat more. Obviously you're eating at maintenance or you'd be gaining. Try to up the calls by 200/week until you start gaining at an appropriate level.
Two, I'd look into a better lifting plan. By reading the description it looks like you're missing out on whole muscle groups? This isn't the time to wing it though, finding a balanced lifting plan is important because it's really easy to forget certain muscles (especially ones we can't see).
What day do you do back?
Technically dead work the back but yes, she doesn't seem to dedicate a specific day to other back exercises besides deads.JeffseekingV wrote: »jaimesparkman wrote: »
what muscle group am I missing?rainbowbow wrote: »Two things:
One, eat more. Obviously you're eating at maintenance or you'd be gaining. Try to up the calls by 200/week until you start gaining at an appropriate level.
Two, I'd look into a better lifting plan. By reading the description it looks like you're missing out on whole muscle groups? This isn't the time to wing it though, finding a balanced lifting plan is important because it's really easy to forget certain muscles (especially ones we can't see).
What day do you do back?
Technically dead work the back but yes, she doesn't seem to dedicate a specific day to other back exercises besides deads.
Yeah, but deads are only lower back. I'm thinking middle back and lats, specifically. I don't see a day that would incorporate either unless she does rows as a pull on chest day and pull ups a pull on shoulders.
No, the specific primary muscles used in a deadlift are the erector spinae, gluteus maximus, quadriceps, hamstring complex and adductors. The secondary or stabilizing muscles used are the trapezius, rhomboids, flexors, extensors, serratus anterior, rectus abdominus, transverse abdominus, gluteus medius/minimus, soleus and the gastrocnemius.
Technically.
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I see someone found teh googlz0
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Relentless_0ne wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »jaimesparkman wrote: »
what muscle group am I missing?rainbowbow wrote: »Two things:
One, eat more. Obviously you're eating at maintenance or you'd be gaining. Try to up the calls by 200/week until you start gaining at an appropriate level.
Two, I'd look into a better lifting plan. By reading the description it looks like you're missing out on whole muscle groups? This isn't the time to wing it though, finding a balanced lifting plan is important because it's really easy to forget certain muscles (especially ones we can't see).
What day do you do back?
Technically dead work the back but yes, she doesn't seem to dedicate a specific day to other back exercises besides deads.JeffseekingV wrote: »jaimesparkman wrote: »
what muscle group am I missing?rainbowbow wrote: »Two things:
One, eat more. Obviously you're eating at maintenance or you'd be gaining. Try to up the calls by 200/week until you start gaining at an appropriate level.
Two, I'd look into a better lifting plan. By reading the description it looks like you're missing out on whole muscle groups? This isn't the time to wing it though, finding a balanced lifting plan is important because it's really easy to forget certain muscles (especially ones we can't see).
What day do you do back?
Technically dead work the back but yes, she doesn't seem to dedicate a specific day to other back exercises besides deads.
Yeah, but deads are only lower back. I'm thinking middle back and lats, specifically. I don't see a day that would incorporate either unless she does rows as a pull on chest day and pull ups a pull on shoulders.
No, the specific primary muscles used in a deadlift are the erector spinae, gluteus maximus, quadriceps, hamstring complex and adductors. The secondary or stabilizing muscles used are the trapezius, rhomboids, flexors, extensors, serratus anterior, rectus abdominus, transverse abdominus, gluteus medius/minimus, soleus and the gastrocnemius.
Technically.
And?0 -
Relentless_0ne wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »jaimesparkman wrote: »
what muscle group am I missing?rainbowbow wrote: »Two things:
One, eat more. Obviously you're eating at maintenance or you'd be gaining. Try to up the calls by 200/week until you start gaining at an appropriate level.
Two, I'd look into a better lifting plan. By reading the description it looks like you're missing out on whole muscle groups? This isn't the time to wing it though, finding a balanced lifting plan is important because it's really easy to forget certain muscles (especially ones we can't see).
What day do you do back?
Technically dead work the back but yes, she doesn't seem to dedicate a specific day to other back exercises besides deads.JeffseekingV wrote: »jaimesparkman wrote: »
what muscle group am I missing?rainbowbow wrote: »Two things:
One, eat more. Obviously you're eating at maintenance or you'd be gaining. Try to up the calls by 200/week until you start gaining at an appropriate level.
Two, I'd look into a better lifting plan. By reading the description it looks like you're missing out on whole muscle groups? This isn't the time to wing it though, finding a balanced lifting plan is important because it's really easy to forget certain muscles (especially ones we can't see).
What day do you do back?
Technically dead work the back but yes, she doesn't seem to dedicate a specific day to other back exercises besides deads.
Yeah, but deads are only lower back. I'm thinking middle back and lats, specifically. I don't see a day that would incorporate either unless she does rows as a pull on chest day and pull ups a pull on shoulders.
No, the specific primary muscles used in a deadlift are the erector spinae, gluteus maximus, quadriceps, hamstring complex and adductors. The secondary or stabilizing muscles used are the trapezius, rhomboids, flexors, extensors, serratus anterior, rectus abdominus, transverse abdominus, gluteus medius/minimus, soleus and the gastrocnemius.
Technically.
good job confirming that the OP needs more back work.0 -
The flag system, once again abused. Is there really a point to it?
I know!
The rules state:
"Abuse: Use this flag to report extreme abuse of our guidelines; such as posting of pornographic images or hate speech......Items marked for abuse should be both severe and urgent"
Some people must have a really funny definition of severe hate speech. Or maybe its porn...
I don't know. I'm starting to get aroused reading all this...
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Alright, I'm going to lay this out and make it extremely basic. A lot of the stuff being said in this thread is mind numbing. You don't really need to increase your protein intake as nothing really changes after .82g/lb. 1g/lb is basically just a safety net everybody follows because some dude said it. Falling below or going above really isn't a big deal as long as you're not halving it.
Next, please don't follow percentages for macros. You can pretty much hit your protein and then fill with the rest. Don't starve yourself of fat, it's silly. Increase your calories by 200ish and assess over a 2-3 week period. Remember, there are plenty of reasons your weight may not be changing. For the sake of consistency, try to weigh yourself under the same circumstances on the same day (every Wednesday when you've woken up and used the washroom). If you're extremely active, then 2000 is nothing. I knew a girl who would maintain on 2500 (she's a Nurse).
Quick question, do you WEIGH everything you eat? You could be missing out on a significant amount of calories. Counting is a tedious, tedious task. Weigh everything and only then can you be sure of how much you're consuming.
As for the routine, I'm assuming you're a novice? I wouldn't suggest a split. Do a beginner's routine (like a few people have suggested). I'm quite fond of 5/3/1 and my S/O progressed on it very well. If you're hurting for time, there's a 3-day 5/3/1 program. 5x5 is also a solid program. Lyle McDonald's General Bulking Routine is also a good routine. With 5/3/1 you need to keep in mind that you add the accessory work yourself. You don't have to have a set plan every day. Sometimes it's better to back off if you're not feeling your best. Auto-regulation is huge when it comes to lifting.
Not sure what this argument about volume is about (not about to read 4 pages of this nonsense). Volume = Hypertrophy. I'm not going to go hardcore into it because I really don't see the point. You can make some serious gains (size) on 5 reppers if you just get some volume in. With that said, going overboard and doing 500000000000000 reps per week on each muscle group is pointless.
TL;DR: Moderation.
P.S. I laughed when someone said DLs don't work the upper-back. Someone clearly isn't locking out.
EDIT: Did I just read 75 reps isn't enough? Wat
EDIT 2: Sara pretty much nailed the volume thing on page 5.0 -
Relentless_0ne wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »jaimesparkman wrote: »
what muscle group am I missing?rainbowbow wrote: »Two things:
One, eat more. Obviously you're eating at maintenance or you'd be gaining. Try to up the calls by 200/week until you start gaining at an appropriate level.
Two, I'd look into a better lifting plan. By reading the description it looks like you're missing out on whole muscle groups? This isn't the time to wing it though, finding a balanced lifting plan is important because it's really easy to forget certain muscles (especially ones we can't see).
What day do you do back?
Technically dead work the back but yes, she doesn't seem to dedicate a specific day to other back exercises besides deads.JeffseekingV wrote: »jaimesparkman wrote: »
what muscle group am I missing?rainbowbow wrote: »Two things:
One, eat more. Obviously you're eating at maintenance or you'd be gaining. Try to up the calls by 200/week until you start gaining at an appropriate level.
Two, I'd look into a better lifting plan. By reading the description it looks like you're missing out on whole muscle groups? This isn't the time to wing it though, finding a balanced lifting plan is important because it's really easy to forget certain muscles (especially ones we can't see).
What day do you do back?
Technically dead work the back but yes, she doesn't seem to dedicate a specific day to other back exercises besides deads.
Yeah, but deads are only lower back. I'm thinking middle back and lats, specifically. I don't see a day that would incorporate either unless she does rows as a pull on chest day and pull ups a pull on shoulders.
No, the specific primary muscles used in a deadlift are the erector spinae, gluteus maximus, quadriceps, hamstring complex and adductors. The secondary or stabilizing muscles used are the trapezius, rhomboids, flexors, extensors, serratus anterior, rectus abdominus, transverse abdominus, gluteus medius/minimus, soleus and the gastrocnemius.
Technically.
good job confirming that the OP needs more back work.
Jeez...no kidding...way to take what I said in a very general sense and twist it.0 -
Perpalicious wrote: »Alright, I'm going to lay this out and make it extremely basic. A lot of the stuff being said in this thread is mind numbing. You don't really need to increase your protein intake as nothing really changes after .82g/lb. 1g/lb is basically just a safety net everybody follows because some dude said it. Falling below or going above really isn't a big deal as long as you're not halving it.
Next, please don't follow percentages for macros. You can pretty much hit your protein and then fill with the rest. Don't starve yourself of fat, it's silly. Increase your calories by 200ish and assess over a 2-3 week period. Remember, there are plenty of reasons your weight may not be changing. For the sake of consistency, try to weigh yourself under the same circumstances on the same day (every Wednesday when you've woken up and used the washroom). If you're extremely active, then 2000 is nothing. I knew a girl who would maintain on 2500 (she's a Nurse).
Quick question, do you WEIGH everything you eat? You could be missing out on a significant amount of calories. Counting is a tedious, tedious task. Weigh everything and only then can you be sure of how much you're consuming.
As for the routine, I'm assuming you're a novice? I wouldn't suggest a split. Do a beginner's routine (like a few people have suggested). I'm quite fond of 5/3/1 and my S/O progressed on it very well. If you're hurting for time, there's a 3-day 5/3/1 program. 5x5 is also a solid program. Lyle McDonald's General Bulking Routine is also a good routine. With 5/3/1 you need to keep in mind that you add the accessory work yourself. You don't have to have a set plan every day. Sometimes it's better to back off if you're not feeling your best. Auto-regulation is huge when it comes to lifting.
Not sure what this argument about volume is about (not about to read 4 pages of this nonsense). Volume = Hypertrophy. I'm not going to go hardcore into it because I really don't see the point. You can make some serious gains (size) on 5 reppers if you just get some volume in. With that said, going overboard and doing 500000000000000 reps per week on each muscle group is pointless.
TL;DR: Moderation.
P.S. I laughed when someone said DLs don't work the upper-back. Someone clearly isn't locking out.
My point was that DLs to not PRIMARILY work the upper back (or quads, glutes, hamstrings, whatever)--that the OP was seriously lacking in OTHER back work. Please read the entire thread and any quotes before responding. Thanks!
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My point was that DLs to not PRIMARILY work the upper back (or quads, glutes, hamstrings, whatever)--that the OP was seriously lacking in OTHER back work. Please read the entire thread and any quotes before responding. Thanks!
I'm clearly misunderstanding what you're saying, so I'll say it again: the upper-back is most-definitely a primary mover. You can check EMGs. Your post lacked depth, you simply said it doesn't work the upper-back and that she needs to do more. The same could be said about her erectors.
Here's a quick EMG (scroll down for the charts):
http://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/2012/12/03/muscle-activation-in-deadlifts/0 -
I can assure you that the first two pages were more than enough to send me packing from these forums once more.What's going on in here??? I stepped away for an hour and come back to the United Nations!!!!
You're right, I should go through three more pages filled with comments such as the above or people spewing their lack of knowledge on the subject. Why would I ever subdue myself to that kind of torture? This thread went from "Why am I not making gains?" To "NOT ENUFF BAK WERK!" Why not suggest routines that fulfill her needs rather than tell her she needs more back work?
Btw, sometimes it's easier when everything is consolidated into one post (hey, that's what my post is!).
Let's go back to talking about flags, though.
EDIT: Went through the rest. Confirmed that it was a waste of time. dbmata seems to be the king of one-liners. Very productive.0 -
Perpalicious wrote: »My point was that DLs to not PRIMARILY work the upper back (or quads, glutes, hamstrings, whatever)--that the OP was seriously lacking in OTHER back work. Please read the entire thread and any quotes before responding. Thanks!
I'm clearly misunderstanding what you're saying, so I'll say it again: the upper-back is most-definitely a primary mover. You can check EMGs. Your post lacked depth, you simply said it doesn't work the upper-back and that she needs to do more. The same could be said about her erectors.
Here's a quick EMG (scroll down for the charts):
http://www.strengthandconditioningresearch.com/2012/12/03/muscle-activation-in-deadlifts/
The comparison of belt v no belt is interesting.
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Oh man, it must be nice being so perfect.Perpalicious wrote: »You're right, I should go through three more pages filled with comments such as the above or people spewing their lack of knowledge on the subject. Why would I ever subdue myself to that kind of torture? This thread went from "Why am I not making gains?" To "NOT ENUFF BAK WERK!" Why not suggest routines that fulfill her needs rather than tell her she needs more back work?
Is the weather different up there on your pedestal?
Read the thread, and then try to come up with an informed concept. Googling muscles used in an exercise is neither informed in this context, or a valuable contribution.
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