carbs are my enemy
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I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.0 -
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I don't get much protein, either. It's not by choice, I just don't like high-protein foods except cottage cheese and enough is enough. Can't gorge on fat-free cottage cheese, lol.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I can't eat much in the way of eggs (except for products like breads, cookies that have a small amount). I eat yogurt and cheese regularly, but I can't really drink much milk due to the lactose. This would probably include most protein shakes/powder made from whey. I realize there are lactose free versions of these products, but I'm doubtful that I'd actually like them. I already eat plenty of fruit, and my digestive tract is very regular, so I don't want to add in fruit juice. Likewise, I'm already eating some calorie dense foods such as dried fruit and nuts. While I do make a large portion of my diet nutrient dense, I already eat some other foods that can be high in calories but not filling (like chips, cakes, cookies). In fact, if I didn't eat some of these low nutrient foods regularly, I'd probably be in a calorie deficit most of the time.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I'm trying, but it's a little hard with the types of foods I'm already eating, dietary restrictions, and appetite. Also, once school starts back up for me in a few weeks, that's also probably going to make it harder for my body to build muscle due to stress.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It matters in my case since it's making it more difficult for me to add on the pounds. If my metabolism was average, I think I would have probably gained at least an extra 10-16 ounces of weight by now. Ok, I realize that's a minor amount, but you get the idea.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Probably because (based on what I've posted in this thread about calorie needs per pound of bodyweight) I'm living proof that some people do have fast metabolisms, despite those who say it doesn't exist.ForecasterJason wrote: »
From other posts I've seen, I still feel confident that overall, maintenance levels for most guys on MFP (assuming the same activity level) are lower. Also, if I actually got the U.S. recommended amount of exercise (cardio plus at least the amount of weight lifting I do), I think it's reasonable that my maintenance would actually be up to 21-22 calories per pound of bodyweight. And that's with my (non-exercise) 3500 steps per day lifestyle.mamapeach910 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
What's your activity lifestyle like? Chances are it's higher than mine.ForecasterJason wrote: »
In reality, all I normally get for exercise these days is about 50-60 minutes of weight training a week. A lot of people that do weight training are doing a lot more than that. And on a typical day, I only get about 3500 steps in each day. I literally spend almost my whole day just sitting at a computer. I do think there are a lot of other skinny people that can/are doing something similar, though. But I don't think it's exactly normal. Before I started doing some weight training, I was doing about 45 minutes of cardio a week and maintaining on 16-17 calories per pound (same sedentary lifestyle). Even my own family members (who live with me) found it hard to believe how I can eat what I do and still stay so skinny.mamapeach910 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Yes, I know, but for some people it's just hard to believe that some can eat a lot and not gain.blktngldhrt wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I agree with what you're saying, but it's all about perception. I mean, just a week ago I was talking to a friend in person, and she couldn't believe when I said I eat cake and cookies often and yet she can see how skinny I am. I understand that some of us who can just eat and eat without gaining are still eating around maintenance, but it means our maintenance is much higher than normal, and/or our bodies are more efficient at burning calories. So therefore, it appears as though we are in a calorie surplus.blktngldhrt wrote: »Don't be an a@@. You know very well it is a Brit term for making it go away.
Trust me to join the conversation at this point.
But I will say I agree with earlnabby. lol
I noticed a lot of the conversation stated as a fact that "overeating leads to weight gain."
What I don't understand is how do people, like myself, my husband and my sons overeat all our lives and not gain weight.
My husband and sons eat constantly and never gain weight. I was the same up until I was 50 (I am too scared to say "until I reached menopause age.") Now I have to be a lot more careful as I have found the weight creeping on slowly over the years. Funny that, weight seems to shift, stall, creep, increase but is mighty hard to lose.
Anyway, what I want to know is, "after eating like a pig for over 50 years why aren't I the size of a house instead of just 5 kilos overweight if the statement about overeating is fact?
Because you don't.
There are people who eat all day long and are still within their maintenance number. My boyfriend is one, for example. He eats a lot. He eats a lot of high calorie foods. He doesn't, however, eat over maintainece when the calories are averaged out over a week.
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
No sir. Fact and perception are not one in the same. The appearance of a calorie surplus does not make it a surplus. It doesn't matter what appears to be. The only thing that matters is what is
Your maintenence is probably not higher than normal..it is simply higher than her maintenance. Also, being able to eat cake and cookies is not really a good yard stick with which to measure your calorie in being higher than hers.
Also, in proportion to my activity level, I'm reasonably certain that my maintenance calories is higher per pound than most other guys. My overall lifestyle is sedentary with less than 90 minutes of exercise a week, but I'm maintaining on 18 calories per pound of bodyweight. I don't think a lot of sedentary guys can do that without gaining.
You keep talking like you're scoring some points, but... hey A+ for effort if it makes you feel better. You might as well be whistling into the wind. You just keep proving the opposite point you're trying to make.
Of course a sedentary person is going to put on weight compared to a person who gets exercise, even a small amount of exercise can make a difference.
You keep trying to make yourself out to be some freak of nature. You know what? You're not. There are variances in metabolic rates and some people have faster metabolisms than others, but they all, barring medical conditions, average near each other for similar age/height/weight/gender groups.
37 years old. 175 lbs. 20+ calories per pound. You aren't that different, bro.
Even if his activity is higher than yours... it doesn't matter. The math for you works out. You're not an anomaly. Your eating/activity level is at maintenance.
Why do you harp so much on these insignificant ideas and details. All you really should be focusing on is eat, lifting, sleeping, repeating. And not giving out advice in the gaining weight forum because that's out of your league.
Eat, lift, sleep...............repeat!!!!
ETA: I did not flag your post.
What are you talking about fast metabolims??? What does it matter? Go eat and lift.
So eat more food. How many more times are you going to need to be told that.
What are your dietary restrictions?
I know some people bulk up differently, but I'm certainly not willing to feel very full all the time. I don't know how some people do it, but that would make me want to quit.
I don't do the protein powders. I don't trust the companies that make them to actually include all that protein and I don't trust them to keep stuff out that needs to kept out. If some big name company sold one, I might try that. I'm also convinced that they'd suck, as even my beloved Nature Valley makes a protein cereal that sucks. Those protein-infused things never taste good!
I'm thinking about smoothies, which I read here. Happy to hear any plans of yours.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
I was just making sure you were eating foods other than what you listed.
Along the lines of what LolBroScience said, there are protein powders available that are easily 1,000 cals a serving.
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Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
Do you have any specific gastrointestinal diseases?0 -
I think it's IBS, but on a normal day-to-day basis I'd say things are under control. I think what helps is the probiotics I get in from the yogurt I eat and also from a probiotic supplement I take 2-3 times a week.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
Do you have any specific gastrointestinal diseases?
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
Grilled PB & Banana Sandwiches (add bacon)0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's IBS, but on a normal day-to-day basis I'd say things are under control. I think what helps is the probiotics I get in from the yogurt I eat and also from a probiotic supplement I take 2-3 times a week.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
Do you have any specific gastrointestinal diseases?
Have you seen a gastroenterologist? If not, I suggest seeing one. Based on your low weight and difficulty gaining weight, I am thinking it might be more serious than IBS. My first thoughts are possibly Celiac or Crohn's. I have Crohn's disease myself. Just something to think about.
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I have not, but I will keep that suggestion in mind. Granted, most of the breads I eat are made from sprouted flour or sourdough starter. But since I don't generally feel any issues after eating gluten foods (except sometimes when I eat high sugar foods late in the day), it seems a little hard for me to believe that I could have celiac disease.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's IBS, but on a normal day-to-day basis I'd say things are under control. I think what helps is the probiotics I get in from the yogurt I eat and also from a probiotic supplement I take 2-3 times a week.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
Do you have any specific gastrointestinal diseases?
Have you seen a gastroenterologist? If not, I suggest seeing one. Based on your low weight and difficulty gaining weight, I am thinking it might be more serious than IBS. My first thoughts are possibly Celiac or Crohn's. I have Crohn's disease myself. Just something to think about.
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Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site
However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*0 -
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.-1 -
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.0 -
The college students are the only ones who give us lists of what is acceptable and what isn't.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.
I'm not going to source anything, if that's okay with you...and even if it isn't.
0 -
The college students are the only ones who give us lists of what is acceptable and what isn't.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.
I'm not going to source anything, if that's okay with you...and even if it isn't.
God forbid I provide a list of various scientific databases where one can find accurate and unbiased information to an individual who continues to post nonsense. It's comical how you are going on and on about what's acceptable and what isn't yet here you are, telling me it's unacceptable to give someone a list of databases. Funny, isn't it?
Seriously… It's getting old.0 -
Maybe Carbs Can Be Our Friends After All ?
"Within a year on his nutritional program, which includes a high carb diet, his pain had resolved, his energy, stamina, and concentration had improved, and scans confirmed total resolution of all his original extensive disease – in complete contradiction to what Dr. Seyfried would predict or claim possible.
When I saw the patient in my office during this recent visit, he remarked that over the preceding months, he had been craving more carbs than ever before, so in response he had significantly increased his daily intake of carrot juice, fruits, and starchy vegetables, foods allowed on his diet with no limitation.
With this increased carb intake, he has actually lost 16 pounds of excess weight, and his energy is better than it has been in 30 years. And, he remains cancer free. According to Dr. Seyfried, on this high-carb regimen his cancer, thriving as he claims on sugars, should long ago have exploded with deadly results."
naturalhealth365.com/ketogenic_diet/cancer_part_5.html0 -
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
You keep mocking "college students" by using childish passive aggression. Rather fascinating, especially in a post complaining about people "mocking" and "ridiculing" others. So is it only allowable to mock and ridicule people when you're the one doing the mocking and ridiculing?0 -
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
I think it's IBS, but on a normal day-to-day basis I'd say things are under control. I think what helps is the probiotics I get in from the yogurt I eat and also from a probiotic supplement I take 2-3 times a week.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks, but I realize that I'd left out something. I eat a little bit of oats, but that's something else that can give me issues if I consume that in larger quantities. Also, whey probably wouldn't work due to the lactose.LolBroScience wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »I had not listed all the foods I'm eating. Most of the other foods I eat include plenty of whole grain bread, chicken, potatoes, some fish/beef, and occasionally beans. Also, some of the chicken I eat is sauteed in olive oil. Likewise, most of the potatoes I eat have added fat.
Also, my diet is around 45-50% carbs, 30-35% fat, and 15% protein. So adding more fat is probably not going to do me any good (leave me fuller plus give me digestive issues), and likewise more protein would fill me up further.
Oats, PB, Banana, Whey + Blender = Easy 800+ cal shake.
Do you have any specific gastrointestinal diseases?
See a gastroenterologist. My son has IBS and we've normalized his symptoms with diet and medication. He has no trouble putting on weight.
0 -
The college students are the only ones who give us lists of what is acceptable and what isn't.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.
I'm not going to source anything, if that's okay with you...and even if it isn't.
That's false. I'm not a college student and I still expect valid information to back up claims made in certain situations.
In my opinion, more people should be worried about the quality of information they're taking in. Especially in the case of diet and health..I see extreme necessity for correct advice to be given.0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
The college students are the only ones who give us lists of what is acceptable and what isn't.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.
I'm not going to source anything, if that's okay with you...and even if it isn't.
God forbid I provide a list of various scientific databases where one can find accurate and unbiased information to an individual who continues to post nonsense. It's comical how you are going on and on about what's acceptable and what isn't yet here you are, telling me it's unacceptable to give someone a list of databases. Funny, isn't it?
Seriously… It's getting old.
I believe that is called Irony ...0 -
kmmargrave wrote: »Time for a bit of schooling.
Yes, eating a very low amount of carbs every day will make most people lose weight, and very quickly. I've been on Atkins since 2000--that's right, folks, that's 14 years--and I lost 30 lbs. initially. I stunk at maintenance, but could always, ALWAYS lose weight I'd regain. Cheating has two nasty consequences--headaches and digestional complaints, and massive sugar craving. Sticking to around 30-50 grams of net carb (carbs minus fiber) a day is the ticket, along with even low duration/low intensity exercise, and a ton of water a day.
Menopause and quitting smoking are game-changers, but a year and a half after quitting smoking, the weight is slowly coming off. Sugar (and carbs, which turn into sugar) is the enemy for me and other people as well.
YES, it's typical for many people to lose 4-5 lbs. in the first week.
NO, that's not just water.
I think the major issue here is the assumption that by cutting out carbs, you're cutting out the appropriate portion of those starchy carbs. I also would like to add some "schooling" here that fruits and veggies (which I'm sure you still eat) have a lot of carbs in them, they just do not have have starchy carbs - which is a major difference.
Carbs turn into sugar ONLY if you don't use the energy they create for your body. If you don't have the new energy in your body (put there by food) your body will use your fat stores to produce energy needed.
Bottom Line: carbs are not the enemy for anyone; portion control is your enemy. As was said before, many people (and myself included sometimes) don't properly portion things like pasta and potatoes and rice. The appropriate sized portions of these things are really very tiny and eating appropriate portions, I imagine you'd still lose a significant amount of weight. Further, as was also mentioned, you are getting the same quantity of food when you remove starchy carbs for less calories. For example, a plate filled with spaghetti and meat sauce will hold far more calories than that same plate filled grilled chicken breast and broccoli. You think you're getting the same thing when really you're filling yourself with foods that are the same volume for less calories. It's all an illusion and it still does not make carbs your enemy - you are your own worst enemy when it comes to things like this. Atkins just babysits you and tells you to eat this, not that. It's not rocket science, it's someone's way of getting rich based on almost everyone else's inability to portion what they eat.
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Relax! I am quite sure I do not have celiac disease.mamapeach910 wrote: »For the love of blob... don't self-diagnose anything to do with gluten. Get tested.
If you have IBS and are under the care of a gastroenterologist for it, it's quite simple for them to run the genetic blood screens for celiac disease.
I was diagnosed a long time ago with IBS -- long before people even talked about celiac or gluten intolerance. The prescription was: "If something you eat bothers you, don't eat it."
I'm not self-diagnosing. Because I feel so much better without eating carbs, I think it's possible there is an issue with gluten. I literally have not had one stomachache or case of diarrhea in three months. I can tell you that is a small miracle. I think I'll keep eating this way.
I also have IBS and it is quite possible you do - I know I don't . . . but I do have a massive intolerance to ex-boyfriends ha ha. I was diagnosed about 6 years ago and when I first started dating my boyfriend I was in university and so I thought all the crap I am eating and drinking I am just doing it to myself. Anyways, long story short we were together for 5 years until this July and within a couple months of moving out and being away from him and certain groups of people my "issues" were pretty much all gone. The stress of going through separation since we lived together made it bad for a short period but once it was all settled and he stopped contacting me I feel so much better.
I've learned my symptoms are controlled by food and lack of jerks causing me stress lol.
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The college students are the only ones who give us lists of what is acceptable and what isn't.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.
I'm not going to source anything, if that's okay with you...and even if it isn't.
1. Why are we demonizing college students?
2. I'm 52 years old. I like accuracy, myself.
3. You missed the whole flipping point. Someone posted something as PROOF. The source mattered. This was never about opinion.
0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »tigersword wrote: »Exception, the difference when you cut out carbs is amazing and your body thanks you for it and punishes you for lapsing. I have had a social weekend eating at Chinese restaurants and at a friend's home and I have had the worst time trying to sleep. My head hurts, I feel foggy and I can't wait to return to normal eating. I am actually craving healthy food. Now please people, don't tell me there is no such thing as good or bad food because I will give you the address of this restaurant and you can check it out for yourselves.
Rachylouise, I hope you are still hanging in there in amongst all the "interesting discussions" about shifting weight and goodness know what. For the record, in Australia we use the term "shift" in relation to weight as well.
Funny, that's how I feel after a day of NOT eating carbs. Might be something to do with it being our primary food source for the last few million years...
The funny thing about all this is that I limit carbs myself. I'm a moderate carber, I feel best if I keep them around 100g (net) a day and get them mostly from beans and dairy rather than grains. But that's just me. I have autoimmune conditions and a generally inflammatory bunch of nonsense to deal with, so I eat to feel well and eat what I enjoy.
I feel as fine as I ever did on super low carb. In fact, I'm in less pain now because I exercise. I'm more satisfied with my food than I was on super low carb. I don't crave the stuff I don't eat either. If I do want something I don't normally eat, I have a small amount of it and then go on with my normal way of eating and I feel fine.
The only difference in my life now is that I eat less than I ate before coming to MFP. There's my problem with some of the low carbers in this thread. There's no magic to cutting carbs. If you feel better eating that way for whatever reason? More power to you. That's great. But for weight loss? It's still all about how many low-carb calories you're eating.
Haha. It is funny. I am super low carb. I eat about 18g of carbs a day (that's my max unless I exercise and eat back some). I still have to eat at a deficit to lose weight. There's no magic here.
Although, I have to admit as a hypoglycemic who suffered for a good while..it feels like magic. But that's just because I feel amazing now compared to before. Not because magic..but because my pancreas doesn't have much to overreact to anymore and my blood glucose isn't dropping into the 50s on a daily basis.
@blktngldhrt I have a question for you… I, too, am hypoglycemic. I overproduce insulin which causes my blood sugar to crash. I used to eat 200+ grams of carbs and my blood glucose was going from 160 to 40 mg/dL in less than 45 minutes. I have cut back tremendously and typically eat between 110-160 grams now. I am still experiencing crashes so I know I need to cut back more. However, every time I try to eat below 75 grams, I am dizzy, weak, confused, shaky, and feel like I'm going to pass out if I don't eat or drink something high in carbs. If I do not eat at least 100 grams of carbs, I cannot keep my blood glucose at a level which I can function normally. Did you experience this?
I'm going to completely throw a wrench in this, but I'll share my personal experience. I'm reactive hypoglycemic, and I had a period where I was going to "do the paleo diet", and I cut out a ton of carbs from my diet, although I think I was still getting 70-100g of carbs a day, so nothing super low. A few months later, I started having a lot of problems with hypoglycemic crashes and at times that completely didn't make sense. I'd eat 100g of chicken and some veggies for lunch, and I'd be shaking an hour later.
After a few weeks of that, I ended up going to the doctor, and my blood work all came back normal except my A1C was low, 4.5, which corresponded to me having all my crashes. The endocrinologist was also at a loss and put me on acarbose and had me test my blood every time before I drove, and she told me I wasn't allowed to drive unless my blood sugar was at least 70. That caused me to have to snack every time I drove anywhere, and it was just ridiculous. I'd eat a snack (usually candy + peanut butter crackers for immediate sugar and long term fats for sustaining the blood sugar) drive to the store, run in for 10 minutes, and my blood sugar would be back under 70 and I'd have to eat another snack to drive home.
The cycling made me miserable, and it wasn't sustainable. The endocrinologist gave up on me because all my hormone levels were normal. I went to a third doctor, who told me the endocrinologist was treating me like a diabetic even though I wasn't one. I stopped all the crazy snacking and she even told me to stop taking my blood sugars because it was just stressing me out. Her only advice was to go back to low carb.
At that point, I ignored all the doctors because I had done low carb before, and it seemed more like it caused the problem than helping it. So, I upped my carbs. I know I don't react well to carbs during the day because they do seem to make me feel like a crash more. So, I eat relatively low carb for breakfast and lunch, and then I usually try to have rice or a roll with dinner. A lot of nights I'll have ice cream after dinner too. My carb levels usually aren't super high or low really (just depends on what I do for dinner), I'd say usually 180-200ish.
I honestly don't know if low carbs caused my issues or if increasing my carbs is actually what solved it. But, it is possible that continuing to cut carbs may not solve the problem.
I also had my A1C checked this year, and it's back up at 5.1, so overall my blood sugar seems to have leveled out.0 -
acorsaut89 wrote: »kmmargrave wrote: »Time for a bit of schooling.
Yes, eating a very low amount of carbs every day will make most people lose weight, and very quickly. I've been on Atkins since 2000--that's right, folks, that's 14 years--and I lost 30 lbs. initially. I stunk at maintenance, but could always, ALWAYS lose weight I'd regain. Cheating has two nasty consequences--headaches and digestional complaints, and massive sugar craving. Sticking to around 30-50 grams of net carb (carbs minus fiber) a day is the ticket, along with even low duration/low intensity exercise, and a ton of water a day.
Menopause and quitting smoking are game-changers, but a year and a half after quitting smoking, the weight is slowly coming off. Sugar (and carbs, which turn into sugar) is the enemy for me and other people as well.
YES, it's typical for many people to lose 4-5 lbs. in the first week.
NO, that's not just water.
I think the major issue here is the assumption that by cutting out carbs, you're cutting out the appropriate portion of those starchy carbs. I also would like to add some "schooling" here that fruits and veggies (which I'm sure you still eat) have a lot of carbs in them, they just do not have have starchy carbs - which is a major difference.
Carbs turn into sugar ONLY if you don't use the energy they create for your body. If you don't have the new energy in your body (put there by food) your body will use your fat stores to produce energy needed.
Bottom Line: carbs are not the enemy for anyone; portion control is your enemy. As was said before, many people (and myself included sometimes) don't properly portion things like pasta and potatoes and rice. The appropriate sized portions of these things are really very tiny and eating appropriate portions, I imagine you'd still lose a significant amount of weight. Further, as was also mentioned, you are getting the same quantity of food when you remove starchy carbs for less calories. For example, a plate filled with spaghetti and meat sauce will hold far more calories than that same plate filled grilled chicken breast and broccoli. You think you're getting the same thing when really you're filling yourself with foods that are the same volume for less calories. It's all an illusion and it still does not make carbs your enemy - you are your own worst enemy when it comes to things like this. Atkins just babysits you and tells you to eat this, not that. It's not rocket science, it's someone's way of getting rich based on almost everyone else's inability to portion what they eat.
Carbs are sugar, starch, and fiber. Fiber is the only one of those that isnt turned into sugar by the digestive tract. Your statement is not true.0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
The college students are the only ones who give us lists of what is acceptable and what isn't.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »
I don't know who Leo is, but if he wants to dress up, yay him.
Your two 5Ks are very impressive to me. I am still working on one. A friend who is doing it with me sent a picture of a t-shirt saying that said, "I run. I'm slower than a heard of turtles stampeding through peanut butter, but I run!" That would be the saying for me!
I don't expect anyone to give anything they read here any serious weight. I would hope they don't. Message boards aren't the place to find reliable answers.
They really don't need more than some ding-dong's blog. They can have their opinion and post it. They're not required to source their posts and if someone else doesn't find it "acceptable", that person is going to have to find a way to live with the fact that people posting to discussion boards will sometimes post things they don't agree with and/or things that are wrong.
It's a discussion board, not a research paper. If someone wants to post something that they find interesting, that's acceptable.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »
Like MrM said..physics. You MUST overeat to gain weight. This is fact.
[snip]
Can you please provide the link to that article? If it isn't from a peer-reviewed scientific database (which I'm sure it isn't), it holds no value or accuracy.
junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2008/10/first-law-of-thermodynamics-in-real.html
Lol. Gale, "junkfoodscience.blogspot.com" is NOT a peer-reviewed scientific database.
That's where LenaGee's 'information' came from
Oh I know! Just telling him that that is not a peer-reviewed site However, dozens of people have told him that since he started appearing in the forums and he still hasn't grasped the concept of what 'peer-reviewed' means!
Gale, the following are acceptable sources of information:
Message board posts do require a Works Cited page. You are not the first college student to try to tell everyone how to post, what is acceptable, etc.
What you deem acceptable and what people feel like doing may be two different things.
It's a discussion board topic involving the scientific field of nutrition, not a who-wore-it-best side-by-side celebrity outfit comparison. So yes, people can post their opinions and post sources they find interesting, but if they are going to make declarative statements about the science behind diet and nutrition, they need to have a more reliable source than "some guy's blog."
Just because one has an opinion doesn't mean that opinion should be given the same weight as the opinion of another poster who can actually discuss the science behind weight loss. Which is how we ended with one poster telling us that diet can change genetic diseases, then backtracking and admitting that he hasn't taken biology in 20 years and doesn't understand the science behind gene mutation (which he just argued diet could change) when he was confronted by people who actually work in scientific fields.
I'm not sure why people get so upset when the discussion is elevated to examining the existing research and looking at things from an objective viewpoint. Critical thinking is not the enemy.
If they cannot find a way to live with that, the Internet will drive them bonkers.
No, nobody has to give it any weight.
Anyone who has a serious interest will take a more scholarly pursuit than a message board...or they'll pay someone who has for their advice.
If people want to ask for sources, fine by me. I don't begrudge anyone their pursuit of knowledge.
On the flip side, it's just not that big a deal if someone is wrong online.
That's my (unsourced, subjective) opinion.
I will not be receiving any more private messages from our new Board Policeperson (who has a "DEGREE", dontchaknow) as I blocked her after the first one, but I also will not be falling in line and sourcing my posts.
I may just have opinions and not cite them. I'm a wild and crazy girl.
I'm sorry that you have had an issue with someone sending you PMs, but the rest of us are not involved in those exchanges, so I'm not sure what purpose telling us about them serves other than trying to stir up drama. You said you blocked them, so if there are other issues between you and this individual, the next step is to contact the mods.
If you don't want to provide sources, that's fine, but don't expect people to give what you have to say any weight or to consider you a reliable, knowledgable poster on the subject. Therein lies the rub for most of the posters offering unsupported claims on the forum.
If you needed reliable info, I'd be the first person to tell you to find it elsewhere and not listen to me or anyone else! I'm not a dietitian and don't pretend to be one. Totally NOT and expert and don't even wish to be confused with one in any way.
No rub there! I invite everyone to either study it themselves or pay someone who has.
I think it depends on the discussion. There are really good discussions here on the forums which I would consider to have reliable information. Particularly the discussions where the posters involved have not only discussed the topic but have cited various sources that pertain to the topic. There's lots of good information to be had and new sources of information to discover in those threads. Steve Troutman has done some excellent threads, and there have been several weight training threads (I know, not everyone's thing) that have had some great information, even though they've gotten into specifics that are not relevant to where I am. I've also picked up a lot of tips and information from the running threads, even though I'm far from elite with my whopping two 5k races worth of experience.
I don't think the issues lies with people not being experts, but rather the general reaction that they tend to have when someone questions the veracity of their statements. Instead of simply sharing how they arrived at their conclusion and admitting that their conclusion isn't supported by the data, we end up with people being offended that anyone dare question them because they went to college/lost a certain amount of weight/know how to google/ran a race under a certain time/can do more pull-ups than any other woman in the gym and possibly the world (now with youtube video!). Then what could be a good discussion with information sharing and education turns into a dumpster fire. But at least we get gifs.
I very much don't want people basing real decisions on ANYTHING that I say and always try to remember to add that they should ask someone smarter than me, like a doctor who specializes in it or a dietitian. What if I said something and they used that and it ended up harming them? No, I don't want that on my conscience. No way, no how.
Plus, the things I learned (and I just said this to MrM), I didn't google them. I don't have links, even if I wanted to prove I was right, which I don't. I also don't want to be badgered by these college students who come in here demanding sources that they find acceptable. I went to college. I wrote my papers. I'm done with that and have no desire to go back.
I agree with you about the devolving discussions. Maybe my New Years Resolutions should include ignoring all of it. (Which would be easier if the Ignore feature came back!)
The goals for my first 5k were: finish the race, run the entire time, don't die. Not exactly trying to beat the Kenyans over here.
I think your point about not wanting to harm others is a good one, and I think that for many posters here, that is the reason why they request sources for claims and try to correct people when they are wrong. There are so many people who read this site but never post, and challenging misinformation may prevent someone from doing something harmful. Not everyone is doing it to mock others or try to come off as superior. If we never had another detox/cleanse thread on the forums, I think most of the regulars would throw a parade. *shameless excuse to build a float for Leo and dress him up Mardi Gras-style*
Some people ask for information because they want it. That's great, if they want to read more about it. A discussion of different opinions is always interesting to read, too.
Some people ask for information so they can mock, ridicule and ambush others. That's not as great. So many people quit posting because of that. They won't be around to read the good information because they're put off by all that and bail.
I guess it is what it is. Normally don't like that expression much, lol, but it fits.
If the college students can't handle the unsourced posts, though, they had better hang out near the fainting sofa, as not everyone will be following their rules.
College students aren't the only ones who like accurate, reliable information that can be backed up with peer-reviewed sources. So I'm not quite sure why you continue to say "college students" as if it's a bad thing that some individuals here are in school.
I'm not going to source anything, if that's okay with you...and even if it isn't.
God forbid I provide a list of various scientific databases where one can find accurate and unbiased information to an individual who continues to post nonsense. It's comical how you are going on and on about what's acceptable and what isn't yet here you are, telling me it's unacceptable to give someone a list of databases. Funny, isn't it?
Seriously… It's getting old.
I don't get it either. I think I learned how to find a reputable source about 25 years ago when I was in 6th or 7th grade.0 -
SingRunTing wrote: »
Sorry, I had to.
I LOVE THIS!0
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