Body Positive or Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle
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GingerbreadCandy wrote: »farfromthetree wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »GingerbreadCandy wrote: »farfromthetree wrote: »dragonmaster69 wrote: »dragonmaster69 wrote: »
The statement stands on it own, I don't think some variation of spoon feeding it would be helpful.
....No, seriously. I'd like to know the distinction because the phrase "enabling obesity by putting a positive spin on a model who is engaging in unhealthy eating habits" doesn't really help me understand the difference between the phrase and fat shaming-it does not stand on its own to all audiences.
Is it skinny shaming when someone with anorexia is criticized for their eating habits? I remember a model who caused quite a bit of controversy due to her obvious eating disorder. I didn't hear anyone come to her defense and claim "skinny shaming" Both behaviors are extreme and potentially dangerous.
I worked with a woman who was very overweight. She always said she was happy that way, and she was ready to "go" whenever it happened. Last year at 45 years old a physician told her she was not going to be around to see 50. She had gastric bypass and has since lost a lot of weight. So, obviously she was not ready to "go" and was not as happy as she said.
^^ this.
What this?
Criticizing someone with anorexia - "Eat a sandwich!", etc, may be extremely counterproductive. People with the disease already stress significantly about food and meal times - adding further pressure, shaming them further about looks or diet can further reinforce behavior. It can be triggering.
Eating disorders are complicated and not only about eating habits. The symptoms that you see around food and weight-related issues and other behavior may be related to something much deeper like depression, insecurity, OCD tendencies, pressure to be perfect, etc...
Does thin-shaming exist? - of course. But even if it didn't. The absence of the opposite of A does not negate A. C'mon - basic 7th grade logic.
Or is this because you too knew a woman that got a bypass? What has this got to do with the price of pork in china and whether other people can be happy with themselves?
Oh come on...You would have to be an idiot to say to someone with anorexia to "eat a sandwich" same as calling someone a "fattie" or telling them to go on a diet. Of course saying these things would cause more stress or exacerbate the situation.
She may be very happy now with herself! Good for her, she is absolutely beautiful and is making money doing what she wants. I really dont care.
Let me make it simple for you...the point of the story is that I am afraid ultimately she will come to regret the choices she is making but, whatever...not my mom.
Thank you. I also think neither of us meant openly criticising the person and saying to their face "go eat a sandwich".
I don't particularly care about the model herself. I think it's fantastic for her if she is happy and can make money doing what she wants. If the #effyourbeautystandards campaign is helping her be comfortable with herself and helping other people as well feel more comfortable in their skin – good for them.
That doesn't change that if I had a daughter and she was that overweight and refused to lose it, I would be worried for her, same as if she had anorexia or any other eating disorder. Yes, she may be healthy now, but I could not help but fear that ten years down the line she would regret her choices.
So yes, it is great that she is happy with herself. However, that does not mean I cannot be critical of her perceived attitude – of course, she may be trying to lose weight and I don't know it. That is very true, but her comments and online presence just do not seem to point that way.
I have four daughters. So not even a hypothetical and I worry about a lot of things. Upstream in this thread you'll see some realistic worries - worries about depression from the internal voice, worries about self-love at any weight and self-esteem. Worries that they'll remain active, eat well, stay healthy at any weight. Drugs, boys and futures. Even a little about weight but more about self love.
What we say about weight affects children deeply.
But that woman is not my daughter and not my concern and she has the right to self-determination. You don't know and probably had never heard of her three days ago - so your voiced concerns about her health are really just a proxy to criticize her choices.
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That's a cool picture.0
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yopeeps025 wrote: »0
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I heard people get eaten by tourists and brown bears up there.0
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »GingerbreadCandy wrote: »farfromthetree wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »GingerbreadCandy wrote: »farfromthetree wrote: »dragonmaster69 wrote: »dragonmaster69 wrote: »
The statement stands on it own, I don't think some variation of spoon feeding it would be helpful.
....No, seriously. I'd like to know the distinction because the phrase "enabling obesity by putting a positive spin on a model who is engaging in unhealthy eating habits" doesn't really help me understand the difference between the phrase and fat shaming-it does not stand on its own to all audiences.
Is it skinny shaming when someone with anorexia is criticized for their eating habits? I remember a model who caused quite a bit of controversy due to her obvious eating disorder. I didn't hear anyone come to her defense and claim "skinny shaming" Both behaviors are extreme and potentially dangerous.
I worked with a woman who was very overweight. She always said she was happy that way, and she was ready to "go" whenever it happened. Last year at 45 years old a physician told her she was not going to be around to see 50. She had gastric bypass and has since lost a lot of weight. So, obviously she was not ready to "go" and was not as happy as she said.
^^ this.
What this?
Criticizing someone with anorexia - "Eat a sandwich!", etc, may be extremely counterproductive. People with the disease already stress significantly about food and meal times - adding further pressure, shaming them further about looks or diet can further reinforce behavior. It can be triggering.
Eating disorders are complicated and not only about eating habits. The symptoms that you see around food and weight-related issues and other behavior may be related to something much deeper like depression, insecurity, OCD tendencies, pressure to be perfect, etc...
Does thin-shaming exist? - of course. But even if it didn't. The absence of the opposite of A does not negate A. C'mon - basic 7th grade logic.
Or is this because you too knew a woman that got a bypass? What has this got to do with the price of pork in china and whether other people can be happy with themselves?
Oh come on...You would have to be an idiot to say to someone with anorexia to "eat a sandwich" same as calling someone a "fattie" or telling them to go on a diet. Of course saying these things would cause more stress or exacerbate the situation.
She may be very happy now with herself! Good for her, she is absolutely beautiful and is making money doing what she wants. I really dont care.
Let me make it simple for you...the point of the story is that I am afraid ultimately she will come to regret the choices she is making but, whatever...not my mom.
Thank you. I also think neither of us meant openly criticising the person and saying to their face "go eat a sandwich".
I don't particularly care about the model herself. I think it's fantastic for her if she is happy and can make money doing what she wants. If the #effyourbeautystandards campaign is helping her be comfortable with herself and helping other people as well feel more comfortable in their skin – good for them.
That doesn't change that if I had a daughter and she was that overweight and refused to lose it, I would be worried for her, same as if she had anorexia or any other eating disorder. Yes, she may be healthy now, but I could not help but fear that ten years down the line she would regret her choices.
So yes, it is great that she is happy with herself. However, that does not mean I cannot be critical of her perceived attitude – of course, she may be trying to lose weight and I don't know it. That is very true, but her comments and online presence just do not seem to point that way.
But that woman is not my daughter and not my concern and she has the right to self-determination. You don't know and probably had never heard of her three days ago - so your voiced concerns about her health are really just a proxy to criticize her choices.
I am not really arguing against any of that. Especially because it is not the model herself I am criticising.
Again, you are perfectly right that that woman has the right for self-determination and I really, really don't care about her. If she is happy, good for her. In fact I love her underwear photoshoot and the style in which those pictures, they have a typical burlesque style to them and I think her figure and tattoos add a lot of character and pep.
The argument that has been going on in circles is whether in general saying "I am completely happy with being obese and will stay this way" is a healthy attitude. It does not have to do anything with the model per se.0 -
Some of the comments on this thread make me weep for humanity.
We realise the question is "Should fat people be allowed a place in the median spotlight or will everyone in the world suddenly become fat too and die of heart failure if we allow it?" right?0 -
WeightWars wrote: »Some of the comments on this thread make me weep for humanity.
We realise the question is "Should fat people be allowed a place in the median spotlight or will everyone in the world suddenly become fat too and die of heart failure if we allow it?" right?
I see it as the same debate as the one surrounding stick-thin models, to be honest. But that is just me.
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I think she's effing gorgeous and I'm glad fat models are getting the recognition they deserve. All you know is what she looks like. You know exactly nothing about her health. That goes for everyone.0
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I get the impression they're just signing her up for the publicity she'll bring with the whole 'being bigger than most models' thing. Being an unhealthy weight should never be celebrated, promoted or accepted in my opinion. Sorry, but it's not right. However, people shouldn't be judged, condemned, mocked, bullied, etc over it. And they definitely should be allowed to feel confident in themselves because with that confidence they'll hopefully feel good enough to want to improve their health and for all the right reasons. It's purely a health concern for me, not a looks concern.0
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GingerbreadCandy wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »GingerbreadCandy wrote: »farfromthetree wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »GingerbreadCandy wrote: »farfromthetree wrote: »dragonmaster69 wrote: »dragonmaster69 wrote: »
The statement stands on it own, I don't think some variation of spoon feeding it would be helpful.
....No, seriously. I'd like to know the distinction because the phrase "enabling obesity by putting a positive spin on a model who is engaging in unhealthy eating habits" doesn't really help me understand the difference between the phrase and fat shaming-it does not stand on its own to all audiences.
Is it skinny shaming when someone with anorexia is criticized for their eating habits? I remember a model who caused quite a bit of controversy due to her obvious eating disorder. I didn't hear anyone come to her defense and claim "skinny shaming" Both behaviors are extreme and potentially dangerous.
I worked with a woman who was very overweight. She always said she was happy that way, and she was ready to "go" whenever it happened. Last year at 45 years old a physician told her she was not going to be around to see 50. She had gastric bypass and has since lost a lot of weight. So, obviously she was not ready to "go" and was not as happy as she said.
^^ this.
What this?
Criticizing someone with anorexia - "Eat a sandwich!", etc, may be extremely counterproductive. People with the disease already stress significantly about food and meal times - adding further pressure, shaming them further about looks or diet can further reinforce behavior. It can be triggering.
Eating disorders are complicated and not only about eating habits. The symptoms that you see around food and weight-related issues and other behavior may be related to something much deeper like depression, insecurity, OCD tendencies, pressure to be perfect, etc...
Does thin-shaming exist? - of course. But even if it didn't. The absence of the opposite of A does not negate A. C'mon - basic 7th grade logic.
Or is this because you too knew a woman that got a bypass? What has this got to do with the price of pork in china and whether other people can be happy with themselves?
Oh come on...You would have to be an idiot to say to someone with anorexia to "eat a sandwich" same as calling someone a "fattie" or telling them to go on a diet. Of course saying these things would cause more stress or exacerbate the situation.
She may be very happy now with herself! Good for her, she is absolutely beautiful and is making money doing what she wants. I really dont care.
Let me make it simple for you...the point of the story is that I am afraid ultimately she will come to regret the choices she is making but, whatever...not my mom.
Thank you. I also think neither of us meant openly criticising the person and saying to their face "go eat a sandwich".
I don't particularly care about the model herself. I think it's fantastic for her if she is happy and can make money doing what she wants. If the #effyourbeautystandards campaign is helping her be comfortable with herself and helping other people as well feel more comfortable in their skin – good for them.
That doesn't change that if I had a daughter and she was that overweight and refused to lose it, I would be worried for her, same as if she had anorexia or any other eating disorder. Yes, she may be healthy now, but I could not help but fear that ten years down the line she would regret her choices.
So yes, it is great that she is happy with herself. However, that does not mean I cannot be critical of her perceived attitude – of course, she may be trying to lose weight and I don't know it. That is very true, but her comments and online presence just do not seem to point that way.
But that woman is not my daughter and not my concern and she has the right to self-determination. You don't know and probably had never heard of her three days ago - so your voiced concerns about her health are really just a proxy to criticize her choices.
I am not really arguing against any of that. Especially because it is not the model herself I am criticising.
Again, you are perfectly right that that woman has the right for self-determination and I really, really don't care about her. If she is happy, good for her. In fact I love her underwear photoshoot and the style in which those pictures, they have a typical burlesque style to them and I think her figure and tattoos add a lot of character and pep.
The argument that has been going on in circles is whether in general saying "I am completely happy with being obese and will stay this way" is a healthy attitude. It does not have to do anything with the model per se.
Which isn't what she or others are saying.
And "in general" being obese is unhealthy. But "in general" isn't the only thing going on - you and others have commented about this model. The real specifics of obesity, and I've posted research on this in this thread that not one person has gone and counter challenged, is that there are non-negligeable clusters of healthy obese. The "in general" statement of "obesity=bad" has been adjusted by research to say "well, not always". And clearly "thin=better" is also not always true.
And "in general" saying "I'm completely happy with myself. My obesity principally concerns me, whether I stay this way or not concerns me", is a completely normal/healthy attitude.
I practice a few sports in which the risks I take are a little more elevated than usual. Those risks include sudden death, maiming, loss of limbs (in fact, my annual increase in this risk is about 1:2000 compare to my peer population, calculated from 2014). "In general" it's unhealthy and it's my own business.0 -
WeightWars wrote: »Some of the comments on this thread make me weep for humanity.
We realise the question is "Should fat people be allowed a place in the median spotlight or will everyone in the world suddenly become fat too and die of heart failure if we allow it?" right?
That's how I was reading it too. Seems ridiculous.0 -
I am all about "Body Positive", but facts are people who are obese do have more health problems. And eventually, as people age, the layers of fat around their organs, and the tremendous amount of pressure put on their knees,, hips, and other joints, takes a toll.
There is a social cost now, of their obesity, taking up more valuable resources in medical care, treatment and other services.
In addition to the uncomfortable issue of sitting next to an obese person in an airplane. Why should they be "entitled" to part of my seating area in an already small area?
Fine. Be "Body Positive", but please purchase a second seat on an airplane for the "excess" baggage.0 -
WeightWars wrote: »Some of the comments on this thread make me weep for humanity.
We realise the question is "Should fat people be allowed a place in the median spotlight or will everyone in the world suddenly become fat too and die of heart failure if we allow it?" right?
The world (1st world, anyway) is already too fat, and already too many die of heart failure or suffer from diabetes and hypertension, and a lot of their bodies look just like the model's when they are being wheeled off to the hospital or worse.
I'm against enabling people to think that it is okay to stay in an unhealthy condition because they found a role model who has made this more acceptable.0 -
Velum_cado wrote: »I think she's effing gorgeous and I'm glad fat models are getting the recognition they deserve. All you know is what she looks like. You know exactly nothing about her health. That goes for everyone.
Why do they deserve recognition for being fat?-1 -
WeightWars wrote: »Some of the comments on this thread make me weep for humanity.
We realise the question is "Should fat people be allowed a place in the median spotlight or will everyone in the world suddenly become fat too and die of heart failure if we allow it?" right?
No, more like "should fat people be allowed to glorify being fat?" Sure they can, but I can also think its gross. It isn't going to make anyone fat though. Do people actually think this?-2 -
WeightWars wrote: »Some of the comments on this thread make me weep for humanity.
We realise the question is "Should fat people be allowed a place in the median spotlight or will everyone in the world suddenly become fat too and die of heart failure if we allow it?" right?
The world (1st world, anyway) is already too fat, and already too many die of heart failure or suffer from diabetes and hypertension, and a lot of their bodies look just like the model's when they are being wheeled off to the hospital or worse.
I'm against enabling people to think that it is okay to stay in an unhealthy condition because they found a role model who has made this more acceptable.
Oh, I guess people do think this. I'm okay with stupid people following a role model in thinking that being morbidly obese is okay. Less stupid people in this world due to them dying young is okay with me. Most people will not purposely follow her lead as a role model though IMO.-2 -
scottacular wrote: »I get the impression they're just signing her up for the publicity she'll bring with the whole 'being bigger than most models' thing. Being an unhealthy weight should never be celebrated, promoted or accepted in my opinion. Sorry, but it's not right. However, people shouldn't be judged, condemned, mocked, bullied, etc over it. And they definitely should be allowed to feel confident in themselves because with that confidence they'll hopefully feel good enough to want to improve their health and for all the right reasons. It's purely a health concern for me, not a looks concern.
She should be allowed to feel exactly how she wants, but if you put yourself out there in the spotlight as she does, you are asking to be mocked. The public is not known to be kind. If she doesn't like the negative attention with the positive, she can stay out of the spotlight.0 -
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The only thing I take issue with is the fact that I don't really see anything special about her. I mean, she looks pretty with makeup (and photoshop/filters) but I think the same goes for most women. She's not exceptionally tall or beautiful or distinctive in any way, imo, and that's my main issue with all of this. She looks like any other woman I might see when I go to the mall. I feel like the criteria for modeling is being spread a little thin nowadays.
I really don't care what size she is, though. It's not her responsibility, or the media's for that matter, to promote health.0 -
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JazzFischer1989 wrote: »The only thing I take issue with is the fact that I don't really see anything special about her. I mean, she looks pretty with makeup (and photoshop/filters) but I think the same goes for most women. She's not exceptionally tall or beautiful or distinctive in any way, imo, and that's my main issue with all of this. She looks like any other woman I might see when I go to the mall. I feel like the criteria for modeling is being spread a little thin nowadays.
I really don't care what size she is, though. It's not her responsibility, or the media's for that matter, to promote health.
yep, agree.
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Honestly I think its gross. I also think that models who look starved are gross as well. I think both promote a delusional unhealthy lifestyle.
This is definitely a heated topic, and I commend you, OP, for posting your opinion on it. The fact of the matter is, everyone is going to have their own opinions on body type. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being self-confident, but I do think there needs to be a limit. I mean, I think it's wonderful that the woman in this article is so confident. Do I think that her weight is healthy? No. Do I find her attractive? No. Can I respect her for embracing her size instead of trying to get to a healthier size? No.
Just like Boganella stated, going to one extreme or the other is pretty unfavorable. While I don't agree with the standards that are put on women to be "fit" and "tiny" I think this is the result of trying *too hard* to "stay from the path". I mean, I'm 5 foot 6, approx 135 pounds. I'm pretty much exactly where I need to be by normal, healthy standards. But I'd like to eat healthier and work out regularly, because I'd like some tone, definition, and overall strength-- and I've been given hell for this. "Oh, you're perfect the way you are, don't change a thing"... And this is the result of that *kitten* advice-- women who are far too large to be healthy individuals (I'm sure a size 8 "Plus size" model could still be considered healthy. But this woman is a size 22, and I can just *feel* the cardiac arrest around the corner.
"Big" people get a negative light because we typically see them rolling through the grocery store on the motorized carts, breathing audibly as they stock up on Doritos and soda. THAT'S gross. THAT'S what I can confidently call disgusting. If this woman does this in her free time, then yes, I'd say she's perpetuating a disgusting lifestyle and I'm deeply saddened for her fate. However, if she's really working with a personal trainer and just trying to be comfortable with what she's working with until she can come down to a healthy size, then sure man, more power to her...0 -
WeightWars wrote: »Some of the comments on this thread make me weep for humanity.
We realise the question is "Should fat people be allowed a place in the median spotlight or will everyone in the world suddenly become fat too and die of heart failure if we allow it?" right?
The world (1st world, anyway) is already too fat, and already too many die of heart failure or suffer from diabetes and hypertension, and a lot of their bodies look just like the model's when they are being wheeled off to the hospital or worse.
I'm against enabling people to think that it is okay to stay in an unhealthy condition because they found a role model who has made this more acceptable.
Oh, I guess people do think this. I'm okay with stupid people following a role model in thinking that being morbidly obese is okay. Less stupid people in this world due to them dying young is okay with me. Most people will not purposely follow her lead as a role model though IMO.
Are they only stupid if they follow someone who is morbidly obese? What about the young killing themselves wanting to be severely underweight
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