Body Positive or Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle
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Large people need decent clothing. So if they have large models it makes sense. That said, the people who can get away with being that big without medical repercussions are a tiny minority. I am not among them. 30 extra lb was jacking up my blood sugar, which is why I did this and lost the weight in the first place.0
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Joe_Buck69 wrote: »
So basically if you use your Photo Booth webcam to snap a picture of yourself swearing allegiance to your flag with your right hand, it will appear as though you had done so with your left hand? Similarly, a photo of you with your right hand on the Bible will display the Good Book underneath your left hand?dragonmaster69 wrote: »Hahaha my profile picture was taken with the main camera on my phone, the added picture is from my photo booth webcam on my laptop where it faces me. I part my hair to the left, but in iPhoto it looks like I part it to the right. :P
That ain't right. (Oooh—the pun came to me only after I had typed out that sentence. I'm slow.
)
I have a webcam on my iMac as well, and the "lens" on my monitor shows everything in reverse, as you have just described. So when I take a picture of my left hand, say, holding up a piece of notepaper (as I am wont to do whenever I wish to throw away said paper, but keep the info written on it, so as to reduce the clutter in my office), the "lens" freezes for an instant, to show the picture I have taken, in reverse, of course, as if I had used my other hand—but then when the picture appears as a preview in the "scroll" list at the bottom, which displays all the photos I've taken (and when it gets saved onto my hard drive), it automatically flips horizontally for a most accurate representation.
Left moles on the left, right moles on the right.
If I had any, that is.
If I am facing north when I take this photo, and my "lens" is facing south, my bangs appear to the right. If I open the photo (with my computer still facing south) and I get up and face south, my bangs, which go to the left in physical person, still appear to go to the right in the photo. Lemme see if I can get a picture to explain....
And now I am posing next to the photo here
Hope this finally clears things up
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This thread has exploded 0_0
I was here a year ago last time, then went away for 10 months and have been back for a couple of weeks.
I could *swear* this topic had a twin back then - different "trigger", but the exact same debate - can and should fatty folks be loud and happy about it or not.
Well, at least if having obese models is meant to provoke a debate about fat people representation, it's working.
Or... may be it's all just about getting us to buy ****.0 -
Mental health is just as important as physical health, and body positivity promotes that. America has a strong diet culture that is wreaking havoc on our perceptions of health, and models like this are trying to undo that damage one photoshoot at a time.
^^
YES!
It has shown to be counterproductive to flat out tell someone they're fat and need to lose weight, as more often then not it just reenforces the negative thoughts a (fat) person can have about their body.
What happened to being respectful and nice to EVERYONE. Or....treat others how you want to be treated. It's really, really simple.0 -
dragonmaster69 wrote: »
Mental health is just as important as physical health, and body positivity promotes that. America has a strong diet culture that is wreaking havoc on our perceptions of health, and models like this are trying to undo that damage one photoshoot at a time.
^^
YES!
It has shown to be counterproductive to flat out tell someone they're fat and need to lose weight, as more often then not it just reenforces the negative thoughts a (fat) person can have about their body.
What happened to being respectful and nice to EVERYONE. Or....treat others how you want to be treated. It's really, really simple.
I can agree with you on that.
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One of the biggest lies we tell is that we don’t judge others. Of course we do, we judge every situation in our surroundings, every piece of data that our senses take in, and make nonstop judgments about that data every waking moment. When we say we aren’t going to be judgmental, we are actually saying that we aren’t going to articulate our judgments, usually in an effort to appear high-minded.
The overweight model looks like every female I’ve ever been acquainted with who has type II diabetes, hypertension, and /or heart disease when they reached their middle ages. She is 29 now and probably not experiencing obesity related health problems – wait until (if) she punishes her body for another 10-15 years and see how healthy she is.
I judge everyone. I've mostly learned to keep my mouth shut about it.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »What if research showed that in reality there is a spectrum of obese people. There are those that are metabolically normal (with health markers that show healthy results) and those that are unhealthy? What appears to happens when Metabolically Normal Obese people gain weight?
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/78425?key=3714880b02fefb032b19
Obesity is a dice throw, one that I chose to avoid as much as I can, however it isn't necessarily the instant 'unhealthy' some throw out. I'm find myself just as often shaking my head at "can I lose weight without exercise" crowd - inactivity, loss of LBM are also strong (if not stronger, I'm not fully convinced either way) risk indicators.
Just trying to avoid the black/white thinking on the subject.
Look at it this way. There are plenty smokers who never get lung cancer or other issues related to smoking in their lives. That doesn't change the fact though that the chance of contracting any of those is several times higher if you are a smoker. And no one in their right minds would say smokers are healthy, because increasing your health risks several times just isn't. The same goes for obesity, the list of health risks you increase by being obese is just too big to say they're healthy. You can't look at them and immediately tell if they got any health problems at the time, but you can look at them and immediately tell that they greatly increase the RISK of getting health problems down the line.
This. Plus the extra pressure on your joints, on your heart, etc etc.
Okay, but explain why they are obligated to be miserable? Because that's what you're saying - that whenever a person who does anything unhealthy doesn't feel like crap about themselves, it is somehow a personal affront to you. Can you please explain that to me?
What I'm saying is that there is a fine line between being happy with yourself and being in denial. But yeah, it boggles my mind a little that anyone would be happy to be fat... which doesn't necessarily mean that people should be 'miserable' about it. But there's a middle ground somewhere, where people can accept themselves but still realize that they should lose weight. Telling people that fat is beautiful (and let's be honest there, she's not just obese, she's morbidly obese) is just sending the message that it's ok to be unhealthy (IMO) and for me, that's just not ok. Fat shaming is wrong, but promoting obesity this way is not right either.
Why do you get to be in control of people's emotions? I just really do not get it. Seeing someone who is morbidly obese but is not miserable has never, not even a tiny bit and in no way whatsoever, made me think that it would be cool to gain a couple of hundred pounds. Do you think that's what happens? Really?
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I think of models as walking mannequins. The purpose should be to show how clothing will look on a body. And since there's a variety of body sizes and shapes in the world, there should be a variety of body sizes and shapes modeling the clothes they will buy.0
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stevencloser wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »What if research showed that in reality there is a spectrum of obese people. There are those that are metabolically normal (with health markers that show healthy results) and those that are unhealthy? What appears to happens when Metabolically Normal Obese people gain weight?
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/78425?key=3714880b02fefb032b19
Obesity is a dice throw, one that I chose to avoid as much as I can, however it isn't necessarily the instant 'unhealthy' some throw out. I'm find myself just as often shaking my head at "can I lose weight without exercise" crowd - inactivity, loss of LBM are also strong (if not stronger, I'm not fully convinced either way) risk indicators.
Just trying to avoid the black/white thinking on the subject.
Look at it this way. There are plenty smokers who never get lung cancer or other issues related to smoking in their lives. That doesn't change the fact though that the chance of contracting any of those is several times higher if you are a smoker. And no one in their right minds would say smokers are healthy, because increasing your health risks several times just isn't. The same goes for obesity, the list of health risks you increase by being obese is just too big to say they're healthy. You can't look at them and immediately tell if they got any health problems at the time, but you can look at them and immediately tell that they greatly increase the RISK of getting health problems down the line.
This. Plus the extra pressure on your joints, on your heart, etc etc.
Okay, but explain why they are obligated to be miserable? Because that's what you're saying - that whenever a person who does anything unhealthy doesn't feel like crap about themselves, it is somehow a personal affront to you. Can you please explain that to me?
What I'm saying is that there is a fine line between being happy with yourself and being in denial. But yeah, it boggles my mind a little that anyone would be happy to be fat... which doesn't necessarily mean that people should be 'miserable' about it. But there's a middle ground somewhere, where people can accept themselves but still realize that they should lose weight. Telling people that fat is beautiful (and let's be honest there, she's not just obese, she's morbidly obese) is just sending the message that it's ok to be unhealthy (IMO) and for me, that's just not ok. Fat shaming is wrong, but promoting obesity this way is not right either.
Why do you get to be in control of people's emotions? I just really do not get it. Seeing someone who is morbidly obese but is not miserable has never, not even a tiny bit and in no way whatsoever, made me think that it would be cool to gain a couple of hundred pounds. Do you think that's what happens? Really?
+1
Not to mention the idea that the fat should portray misery and self-hatred just so no one else might think it's super cool to be fat and decide to go for it, even though it's obvious that mainstream beauty standards and just general ideas (we see it in this thread, that fat people are lazy and slothful, etc.) are so strongly against it.
I don't want to be fat either, and didn't when I was fat (although I had priorities that meant that I didn't do what I needed to to lose the weight or prevent myself from gaining it at one point), but I don't see why it's any of my business if someone else is okay with being fat. And if she thinks she looks good and chooses to live her life and be happy, great. And if she subsequently decides to lose weight (I've changed my mind about lots of stuff since I was 24), also great!
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I would actually argue that it is healthier NOT to try to lose weight before you are ready to really commit to the process and doing it in the right way. Weight cycling (yo-yo dieting) conveys health risks, and being at a stable weight even if obese is healthier than an up and down trajectory.
You can be focused on health without deciding to lose weight by focusing on eating in a balanced way and being active. That may fit better into an individual's priorities than weight loss for various reasons. Health encompasses more than just body size, so it is up to each individual to figure out what that looks like for them at that point in life (with the caveat being that when we are young it is hard to really comprehend and integrate the effects choices we make now will have on us later).
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Damn, you're on.This has gotten long 'cause I pulled things from all 10 pages so far.
That's what I was thinking, not even a size 22 at Lane Bryant. However, i'm a dude, so what do I know.And there's no way that's a size 22. I wasn't that fat at my heaviest. I'm nearly 80 lb down and have a pair of jeans that's a size 20 that's a little loose right now. (Of course, thanks to the crazy sizing in women's clothing, I also have a "size 12" dress that fits.)
Yup, take a flight. Especially on one of the older planes. That isn't comfortable, it's fine now, but 45 pounds ago I freaking hated it.Yes. All of that.
Well, at one time, it was a show of economic power. Now, it seems as if it is the other way around. The poorest amongst us are often the largest, and the richest are often the most "fit".We (as a society) need to make being fat just as uncool as smoking, or drinking & driving, or using illegal drugs (or legal ones to excess). Those are not good lifestyle choices, and society frowns on them, and they have been becoming less. (Mostly... there are still some people trying to promote the use of some illegal drugs, and there are some people & groups trying to promote fat acceptance.)
Yup, if she's working with an RD and a doctor, and still looks like that, she needs better vendors. I've seen people her size get gastric bypass in CA. Frankly too, I would question any trainer that lets her off staying that size. Hell, my trainer is on my *kitten* constantly, he wants me to be less fatbodied, so I can be an amazing curl bro.Obviously not very effective, since she's still morbidly obese.
I'd want the name & certifying body of that "trainer", so I could avoid using that person & be suspicious of others certified by the same organization.
And if her intake is supposedly set by a dietician &/or doctor, I'd want to avoid them too, because if she's actually following what they've told her to do, they're telling her to remain unhealthy.
I'm in the creative field. I will in general hire the tatt'ed applicant if presented with two similar options, one having art, the other not having it. It's a show of art, aesthetic, taste, and freedom of expression.Or put them where they're not on public display, so you're not "discriminated against" when you apply for a job & the company decides you don't portray the image they want for their company.
My (one & only) tattoo commemorates a very important & painful life-changing event in my life. It's somewhere that _very_ few people ever get to see.
Probably true.Either a fetishist or someone who was fat & thought she looked good.
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stevencloser wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »What if research showed that in reality there is a spectrum of obese people. There are those that are metabolically normal (with health markers that show healthy results) and those that are unhealthy? What appears to happens when Metabolically Normal Obese people gain weight?
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/78425?key=3714880b02fefb032b19
Obesity is a dice throw, one that I chose to avoid as much as I can, however it isn't necessarily the instant 'unhealthy' some throw out. I'm find myself just as often shaking my head at "can I lose weight without exercise" crowd - inactivity, loss of LBM are also strong (if not stronger, I'm not fully convinced either way) risk indicators.
Just trying to avoid the black/white thinking on the subject.
Look at it this way. There are plenty smokers who never get lung cancer or other issues related to smoking in their lives. That doesn't change the fact though that the chance of contracting any of those is several times higher if you are a smoker. And no one in their right minds would say smokers are healthy, because increasing your health risks several times just isn't. The same goes for obesity, the list of health risks you increase by being obese is just too big to say they're healthy. You can't look at them and immediately tell if they got any health problems at the time, but you can look at them and immediately tell that they greatly increase the RISK of getting health problems down the line.
This. Plus the extra pressure on your joints, on your heart, etc etc.
Okay, but explain why they are obligated to be miserable? Because that's what you're saying - that whenever a person who does anything unhealthy doesn't feel like crap about themselves, it is somehow a personal affront to you. Can you please explain that to me?
What I'm saying is that there is a fine line between being happy with yourself and being in denial. But yeah, it boggles my mind a little that anyone would be happy to be fat... which doesn't necessarily mean that people should be 'miserable' about it. But there's a middle ground somewhere, where people can accept themselves but still realize that they should lose weight. Telling people that fat is beautiful (and let's be honest there, she's not just obese, she's morbidly obese) is just sending the message that it's ok to be unhealthy (IMO) and for me, that's just not ok. Fat shaming is wrong, but promoting obesity this way is not right either.
Why do you get to be in control of people's emotions? I just really do not get it. Seeing someone who is morbidly obese but is not miserable has never, not even a tiny bit and in no way whatsoever, made me think that it would be cool to gain a couple of hundred pounds. Do you think that's what happens? Really?
Clearly you're just reading what you want to read from my post because it's NOT what I said at all. My issue is more with the 'oh well it's completely fine to be fat, I don't need to lose the weight' mentality.dragonmaster69 wrote: »
Mental health is just as important as physical health, and body positivity promotes that. America has a strong diet culture that is wreaking havoc on our perceptions of health, and models like this are trying to undo that damage one photoshoot at a time.
^^
YES!
It has shown to be counterproductive to flat out tell someone they're fat and need to lose weight, as more often then not it just reenforces the negative thoughts a (fat) person can have about their body.
What happened to being respectful and nice to EVERYONE. Or....treat others how you want to be treated. It's really, really simple.
I don't think anyone is denying that. But because we're not for promoting being fat as being a great thing, it means we're pro-shaming? Some of you are really jumping to (false) conclusions...girlviernes wrote: »I would actually argue that it is healthier NOT to try to lose weight before you are ready to really commit to the process and doing it in the right way. Weight cycling (yo-yo dieting) conveys health risks, and being at a stable weight even if obese is healthier than an up and down trajectory.
You can be focused on health without deciding to lose weight by focusing on eating in a balanced way and being active. That may fit better into an individual's priorities than weight loss for various reasons. Health encompasses more than just body size, so it is up to each individual to figure out what that looks like for them at that point in life (with the caveat being that when we are young it is hard to really comprehend and integrate the effects choices we make now will have on us later).
Agreed with the first part, don't agree with the second one. Sorry but there's just no way that someone that size is going to stay healthy long. I'm not talking about overweight or slightly obese people - she's way past the morbidly obese BMI there.0 -
I find this to be a confusing question because an overweight model does not promote being overweight. She's helping to sell clothes and an image. She's helping to perhaps make women of her size feel more confident. And if they're more confident, maybe they'll be able to make healthier choices toward a longer life.
And let's not be daft; no one can be healthy when putting that much stress on their organs. There's no way you can deny that an extremely overweight person is unhealthy, even if they don't have a serious health condition (yet). My family (and many others) consists of a long line of obesity, diabetes, and heart problems, and those problems certainly didn't come from random factors aside from their eating habits.
All that aside, there are worse things to advertise.0 -
Wilford Brimley is bristling his moustache in disappointment with her careening path towards DIABEEEEEETUS0
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I don't think anyone is denying that. But because we're not for promoting being fat as being a great thing, it means we're pro-shaming? Some of you are really jumping to (false) conclusions...That being said, I think there's a very fine line between being 'happy with your body no matter what' and denial.
I don't think it's ok to give the message that you can be morbidly obese like that woman and that it's ok. It's just not ok.
And I'll never think it's ok when I see mothers of obese or underweight kids telling them that they should love themselves the way they are, instead of doing something about it... it's a VERY fine line.she clearly isn't doing anything to fix itthere is a fine line between being happy with yourself and being in denial. But yeah, it boggles my mind a little that anyone would be happy to be fat... which doesn't necessarily mean that people should be 'miserable' about it. But there's a middle ground somewhere, where people can accept themselves but still realize that they should lose weight. Telling people that fat is beautiful (and let's be honest there, she's not just obese, she's morbidly obese) is just sending the message that it's ok to be unhealthy (IMO) and for me, that's just not ok.
That last one just doesn't make sense. It's like saying to your partner "I love you unconditionally, but..."
If you think fat shaming is wrong, stop saying that they should "realize that they should lose weight." How does their life, and choices to be fat or not HAVE ANY EFFECT on you?
Merriam-Webster says...
Shame transitive verb
: to cause (someone) to feel ashamed
: to force (someone) to act in a specified way by causing feelings of shame or guilt
"I don't think it's ok to give the message that you can be morbidly obese like that woman and that it's ok. It's just not ok." <--- that is a matter of opinion, and frankly it is definitely fat shaming.
About mothers with obese children. What would you have done to my mother? I was the fat child of a fat woman. There was a time when she was very successful with weight loss, but ended up gaining the weight back as soon as emotionally stressful events happened in our lives. She cooked nutrient rich foods for dinner every night, but as a child I could never distinguish when I was truly "full," so I would keep on eating. That being said, my mother always told me to love myself and be confident, and for that, I am truly thankful.
I re-read your comments so far and I still believe you are fat shaming, even though you are supposedly blind to it.0 -
Because I think it's unhealthy, and that it's unhealthy to be in denial of one's obesity, it's fat shaming? Whatever you say then, clearly you know what I think better than I do.0
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There is a distinction between "fat shaming" and choosing not to enable obesity by putting a positive spin on a model who is engaging in unhealthy eating habits.0
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Because I think it's unhealthy, and that it's unhealthy to be in denial of one's obesity, it's fat shaming? Whatever you say then, clearly you know what I think better than I do.
Well it SEEMS (and btw I know I'm conflating you with other posters so apologies for making you the 'spokesperson') that you are equating having a good attitude towards life with denial of one's problems and I don't see that. I believe a person can be happy and still want to make changes, that they can be happy even if they see their failures clearly and accurately. It sounds like you think that happy -> thinking you're perfect -> ignoring all problems -> actively encouraging others to do the same. That may well not be true but a lot of the posts on this thread have expressed that same general sentiment
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honkytonks85 wrote: »
Sounds like a disingenuous gesture. Is being fat okay or isn't it? Tell people that being fat is ok so that they will love themselves enough to care and improve.
So, it sounds like being fat is not ok. Just as I already suspected.
I guess it's about how you define 'ok'.
I think I would define "ok" as there is nothing wrong with it, just as there is nothing wrong with having blue eyes. Obesity is just one of the many colors in the diversity rainbow, no better or worse than any other, just one variety of among many.
I don't think that's true, and I don't believe anyone who says it actually means it. I think it feels good to say it, though, for some. Saying stuff that is complete baloney cuz it might make someone's day can give one the pretension that they are doing a good deed or are a good person.There are demonstrated health risks linked with morbid obesity (though it is important to note that being obese is NOT an indicator of a persons health any more than being slim is). When I talk about being 'ok' I am talking about being worthy of peoples respect, attention, love etc.
Obesity is a condition, and the health and beauty and marketability and celebration of that condition is what is being discussed. What is not being discussed is whether fat people are entitled to the same basic dignity and respect owed to all persons. And the reason why that is not being discussed is because no one is arguing that they aren't entitled to that, that they aren't human beings, or any other suggestion that degrades their humanity.
But if saying "it's ok to be fat" means "You're human and your fatness doesn't make you any less human," I don't see anything wrong with that message. But it seems to me that there is a huge disparity between the words being said "It's ok to be fat" and the meaning "You're fully a human being, despite the fact that you're fat."I know a lot of people who BELIEVE that obese people are gross, lazy, unhealthy etc. etc. That kind of attitude isn't helpful and thinking that about yourself does not help. You can learn to love yourself at any size and still want to improve. Even people who are not overweight can always improve.
The obese are not entitled to society, or any individuals thereof, believing obesity is a positive and that there are no negatives on the health or the personality and activity level of the obese person.
And I don't see why loving myself means I should love my obese body. I didn't and don't love it, I saw it as a problem I needed to solve.
Being obese, and feeling bad about it, doesn't seem to me to be irrational. Being obese, and being alright with it, or worse, being thrilled by it, does seem to me to be very irrational.
Likewise, it doesn't seem irrational that people are turned off by obesity and by persons who have spiraled into that state. It does seem irrational (and the motives seem suspect) when the obese are celebrated for their obesity.I think learning to love yourself as you are goes a long way because I think self esteem and happiness play a large role in being motivated to be better.
Sure, but does self-esteem hinge on whether someone believes/professes that they have a beautiful body (no matter what state it is in)? If I don't think my body is beautiful, does it follow that I hate myself and have poor self-esteem? Should I lie and have other do-gooders lie to me about how beautiful my body is, the implication being that self-esteem hinges on how beautiful you and others think your body is?I remember as a morbidly obese teenager, I basically hated myself so much I wanted to die (and tried to take my own life a few times). It wasn't until my 20's where I had a group of friends and I started to like myself a little bit that I actually felt motivated to lose weight. I lost about 160lbs.
Congrats on your weight loss, that is impressive. But I would like to say that liking ourselves is not the same thing as liking our obesity or the behavior that got us there. And it doesn't sound to me like you ever liked being obese even after you grew out of your teens and formed a good group of friends in your life. And I don't think that is odd at all. Look at the Success Stories section, the "What are you looking forward to" threads, the "What changed?" threads right here on MFP. Stories abound on how much harder life was as an obese person, not just because of societal attitudes but quality of life stuff -like basic hygiene- and how much better life has become with every pound shed.
Not liking obesity, whether you suffer from it, or seeing it in others, seems perfectly rational. What's to like..*shrug*0 -
This discussion has been closed.
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