Body Positive or Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle
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stevencloser wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »What if research showed that in reality there is a spectrum of obese people. There are those that are metabolically normal (with health markers that show healthy results) and those that are unhealthy? What appears to happens when Metabolically Normal Obese people gain weight?
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/78425?key=3714880b02fefb032b19
Obesity is a dice throw, one that I chose to avoid as much as I can, however it isn't necessarily the instant 'unhealthy' some throw out. I'm find myself just as often shaking my head at "can I lose weight without exercise" crowd - inactivity, loss of LBM are also strong (if not stronger, I'm not fully convinced either way) risk indicators.
Just trying to avoid the black/white thinking on the subject.
Look at it this way. There are plenty smokers who never get lung cancer or other issues related to smoking in their lives. That doesn't change the fact though that the chance of contracting any of those is several times higher if you are a smoker. And no one in their right minds would say smokers are healthy, because increasing your health risks several times just isn't. The same goes for obesity, the list of health risks you increase by being obese is just too big to say they're healthy. You can't look at them and immediately tell if they got any health problems at the time, but you can look at them and immediately tell that they greatly increase the RISK of getting health problems down the line.
This. Plus the extra pressure on your joints, on your heart, etc etc.
Again - weight can be decoupled to some extent for metabolic syndrome disease. One may easily have what are typically obese disease states and not be overweight:
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/47/5/699
Again, again - subset of the obese population are metabolically normal and do not have apparent addition risk. It is incorrect to "just look" and evaluate a persons health by their weight.
http://www.hug-ge.ch/sites/interhug/files/structures/enseignement_therapeutique_pour_maladies_chroniques/documents/metabolically_normal_obesity.pdf
In conclusion, data from the literature strongly suggest that a regular surveillance of the cardiometabolic parameters and a prevention of any further weight gain should be applied to healthy obese individuals, whereas possible benefits of a weight loss treatment are still a matter of debate.0 -
I will never make lieutenant.
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CipherZero wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
If I'd meant insult I would have written insult. If you're going to insist on rewriting my words to mean what you think it means, at least be honest about it.
The fact is everyone judges everyone else. To fail to recognize it - or somehow think anyone is above it - it a failure to recognize reality.
Because if someone says I accept and love myself and you consider this a "message of sloth, gluttony" then, yes, you are insulting.
The argument that everyone judges everyone else so it's ok to make these judgment is spacious, at best. It justifies, if it were correct - any type of judgment - from base jingoism to racism.
I like the start of your message about change but I prefer to work with the idea of self-love and care as the motor for improvements of any type - not beatings about the head on how slothful or gluttonous (or worse) a behavior is. Go re-read JoRocka's post.
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Joe_Buck69 wrote: »
Forgive my detectiveness, but I have to ask.dragonmaster69 wrote: »Yes, the best choice I've ever made for my loved, unhealthy, subhuman, FAT legs.
It was my choice to ink my body permanently, but it is not my choice that some people have judgements on tattoos. Would I like an acceptance movement? HELL YEAH.
Just because I am fat and have tattoos, doesn't mean I should be treated with any less respect than the "average" person gets.
The tattoo on your left leg above appears to be on your right leg in your profile pic.
Did you do a flip-horizontal in Photoshop or something?
Hahaha my profile picture was taken with the main camera on my phone, the added picture is from my photo booth webcam on my laptop where it faces me. I part my hair to the left, but in iPhoto it looks like I part it to the right. :P0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
If I'd meant insult I would have written insult. If you're going to insist on rewriting my words to mean what you think it means, at least be honest about it.
The fact is everyone judges everyone else. To fail to recognize it - or somehow think anyone is above it - it a failure to recognize reality.
Because if someone says I accept and love myself and you consider this a "message of sloth, gluttony" then, yes, you are insulting.
The argument that everyone judges everyone else so it's ok to make these judgment is spacious, at best. It justifies, if it were correct - any type of judgment - from base jingoism to racism.
I like the start of your message about change but I prefer to work with the idea of self-love and care as the motor for improvements of any type - not beatings about the head on how slothful or gluttonous (or worse) a behavior is. Go re-read JoRocka's post.
You make logic so attractive. Just sayin.0 -
That poster, amongst many others on this forum fail or refuse to recognize reality on a daily basis, as evidenced by their thoughtful and entertaining contributions.CipherZero wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
If I'd meant insult I would have written insult. If you're going to insist on rewriting my words to mean what you think it means, at least be honest about it.
The fact is everyone judges everyone else. To fail to recognize it - or somehow think anyone is above it - it a failure to recognize reality.
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stevencloser wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »What if research showed that in reality there is a spectrum of obese people. There are those that are metabolically normal (with health markers that show healthy results) and those that are unhealthy? What appears to happens when Metabolically Normal Obese people gain weight?
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/78425?key=3714880b02fefb032b19
Obesity is a dice throw, one that I chose to avoid as much as I can, however it isn't necessarily the instant 'unhealthy' some throw out. I'm find myself just as often shaking my head at "can I lose weight without exercise" crowd - inactivity, loss of LBM are also strong (if not stronger, I'm not fully convinced either way) risk indicators.
Just trying to avoid the black/white thinking on the subject.
Look at it this way. There are plenty smokers who never get lung cancer or other issues related to smoking in their lives. That doesn't change the fact though that the chance of contracting any of those is several times higher if you are a smoker. And no one in their right minds would say smokers are healthy, because increasing your health risks several times just isn't. The same goes for obesity, the list of health risks you increase by being obese is just too big to say they're healthy. You can't look at them and immediately tell if they got any health problems at the time, but you can look at them and immediately tell that they greatly increase the RISK of getting health problems down the line.
This. Plus the extra pressure on your joints, on your heart, etc etc.
Okay, but explain why they are obligated to be miserable? Because that's what you're saying - that whenever a person who does anything unhealthy doesn't feel like crap about themselves, it is somehow a personal affront to you. Can you please explain that to me?
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stevencloser wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »What if research showed that in reality there is a spectrum of obese people. There are those that are metabolically normal (with health markers that show healthy results) and those that are unhealthy? What appears to happens when Metabolically Normal Obese people gain weight?
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/78425?key=3714880b02fefb032b19
Obesity is a dice throw, one that I chose to avoid as much as I can, however it isn't necessarily the instant 'unhealthy' some throw out. I'm find myself just as often shaking my head at "can I lose weight without exercise" crowd - inactivity, loss of LBM are also strong (if not stronger, I'm not fully convinced either way) risk indicators.
Just trying to avoid the black/white thinking on the subject.
Look at it this way. There are plenty smokers who never get lung cancer or other issues related to smoking in their lives. That doesn't change the fact though that the chance of contracting any of those is several times higher if you are a smoker. And no one in their right minds would say smokers are healthy, because increasing your health risks several times just isn't. The same goes for obesity, the list of health risks you increase by being obese is just too big to say they're healthy. You can't look at them and immediately tell if they got any health problems at the time, but you can look at them and immediately tell that they greatly increase the RISK of getting health problems down the line.
This. Plus the extra pressure on your joints, on your heart, etc etc.
Okay, but explain why they are obligated to be miserable? Because that's what you're saying - that whenever a person who does anything unhealthy doesn't feel like crap about themselves, it is somehow a personal affront to you. Can you please explain that to me?
What I'm saying is that there is a fine line between being happy with yourself and being in denial. But yeah, it boggles my mind a little that anyone would be happy to be fat... which doesn't necessarily mean that people should be 'miserable' about it. But there's a middle ground somewhere, where people can accept themselves but still realize that they should lose weight. Telling people that fat is beautiful (and let's be honest there, she's not just obese, she's morbidly obese) is just sending the message that it's ok to be unhealthy (IMO) and for me, that's just not ok. Fat shaming is wrong, but promoting obesity this way is not right either.0 -
Who came up with "fat is beautiful?"0
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Who came up with "fat is beautiful?"
No clue, probably someone overweight who wanted to be accepted as they are. Not how it ended up. A "friend" from high school on facebook posts memes about it, usually 3-4 every other day. I'd say half of them refer to skinny people not looking as good as fat people.0 -
... hm, interesting.
So essentially a way to neg others in order to feel ok with self and poor choices.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »What if research showed that in reality there is a spectrum of obese people. There are those that are metabolically normal (with health markers that show healthy results) and those that are unhealthy? What appears to happens when Metabolically Normal Obese people gain weight?
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/78425?key=3714880b02fefb032b19
Obesity is a dice throw, one that I chose to avoid as much as I can, however it isn't necessarily the instant 'unhealthy' some throw out. I'm find myself just as often shaking my head at "can I lose weight without exercise" crowd - inactivity, loss of LBM are also strong (if not stronger, I'm not fully convinced either way) risk indicators.
Just trying to avoid the black/white thinking on the subject.
Look at it this way. There are plenty smokers who never get lung cancer or other issues related to smoking in their lives. That doesn't change the fact though that the chance of contracting any of those is several times higher if you are a smoker. And no one in their right minds would say smokers are healthy, because increasing your health risks several times just isn't. The same goes for obesity, the list of health risks you increase by being obese is just too big to say they're healthy. You can't look at them and immediately tell if they got any health problems at the time, but you can look at them and immediately tell that they greatly increase the RISK of getting health problems down the line.
This. Plus the extra pressure on your joints, on your heart, etc etc.
Okay, but explain why they are obligated to be miserable? Because that's what you're saying - that whenever a person who does anything unhealthy doesn't feel like crap about themselves, it is somehow a personal affront to you. Can you please explain that to me?
What I'm saying is that there is a fine line between being happy with yourself and being in denial. But yeah, it boggles my mind a little that anyone would be happy to be fat... which doesn't necessarily mean that people should be 'miserable' about it. But there's a middle ground somewhere, where people can accept themselves but still realize that they should lose weight. Telling people that fat is beautiful (and let's be honest there, she's not just obese, she's morbidly obese) is just sending the message that it's ok to be unhealthy (IMO) and for me, that's just not ok. Fat shaming is wrong, but promoting obesity this way is not right either.
She's not promoting obesity - she not selling it, gets no value from it. She gets value for being different and selling her self, her confidence, her strength. It's not about "fat is beautiful" in this instance - or dislike of skinniness - yes, that movement existed or exists and is a reactionary horrid mess.
Look at her posts - you'll find that what she does is promote self-love. Period. She just doesn't match your (or my) canon of beauty. But that doesn't matter. Whether she wants to lose weight is her business.
I have four daughters - one is overweight, one thinks her boobs are too small, one worries about her height... I want to silence those internal voices of doubt, they are each beautiful and yes, from that point they can each work to improve themselves in a million ways, not just gnawing away at how x feature makes them ugly and I think we succeed in that when we have a certain amount of appreciation or at least some respect for the other. The comments people make on her instagram account are disgusting, the hate mail and threats she gets are disgusting. And yet here, no one criticizes that. Or says, yes it's bad but she is promoting this awfulness. NO. She is reacting to the hate that is thrown her way.
If, as a model, everyone just dealt with her without any addition pressure but passing disregard - then her response wouldn't be necessary. But here we are - she's at best a carrier of a slothful message, selling unhealthy, etc. She's not. She's selling her looks to market her beauty for those that see it.
And now for a gender question. Why is it necessary for women to continue to cut down other women in this manner, FFS?
I never bought into the BS about hateful women but this place, these threads, boy do they make me wonder.... Tell me, I'm wrong. Tell me that you hold disgust for the way she's treated by random hateful anonymous people and not the person.
El respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz.
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So basically if you use your Photo Booth webcam to snap a picture of yourself swearing allegiance to your flag with your right hand, it will appear as though you had done so with your left hand? Similarly, a photo of you with your right hand on the Bible will display the Good Book underneath your left hand?dragonmaster69 wrote: »Hahaha my profile picture was taken with the main camera on my phone, the added picture is from my photo booth webcam on my laptop where it faces me. I part my hair to the left, but in iPhoto it looks like I part it to the right. :P
That ain't right. (Oooh—the pun came to me only after I had typed out that sentence. I'm slow.)
I have a webcam on my iMac as well, and the "lens" on my monitor shows everything in reverse, as you have just described. So when I take a picture of my left hand, say, holding up a piece of notepaper (as I am wont to do whenever I wish to throw away said paper, but keep the info written on it, so as to reduce the clutter in my office), the "lens" freezes for an instant, to show the picture I have taken, in reverse, of course, as if I had used my other hand—but then when the picture appears as a preview in the "scroll" list at the bottom, which displays all the photos I've taken (and when it gets saved onto my hard drive), it automatically flips horizontally for a most accurate representation.
Left moles on the left, right moles on the right.
If I had any, that is.
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Who came up with "fat is beautiful?"
No clue, probably someone overweight who wanted to be accepted as they are. Not how it ended up. A "friend" from high school on facebook posts memes about it, usually 3-4 every other day. I'd say half of them refer to skinny people not looking as good as fat people.
Jim Morrison (j/k)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhszZ53SEC8
Maybe Rubens
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You are my hero for the daypromoting health is not typically what models do. unless they work for shakeology or shape- or fitUstoday.com or whatever.
she's paid to sell what her manager books her gigs for and take pictures for an owner/marketer who wants her body type/face/style/image to represent their product.
That doesn't mean she loves her body.
That doesn't mean she hates her body.
Those two things are not connected.
Personally- I think people need to understand that loving yourself is not an excuse to stay the same. You don't need self hate to want to change.
you don't need to hate yourself if you think you need to change. You can want to change- and pursue changes without hating yourself.
it's okay to love your body even when it's less than what you think is ideal- it doesn't have to be your be all end all self esteem like people make it out to be.
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farfromthetree wrote: »candacefausset wrote: »If you know anything about Tess, you would know she works out regularly, lifts weights and eats a well balanced diet set by her nutritionist and doctors advice.
We also have doctors who continue to do ridiculous plastic surgeries. I find it hard to believe she is getting good advice from a doctor or a nutritionist. Are they trying to maintain her weight? Doctors have an obligation to do what is right, and what is best for the patient. Maintaining her weight is not in her best interest. And let's be real, she is not overweight she is morbidly obese.
My quotiing skills are just embarassing at this point
Plastic surgeons are not even comparable to a general practitioner. And who knows if they are trying to maintain her weight or lower it? Oh wait, she does. And that is the only person that matters in this equation.
As for terminology- when one is morbidly obese, they are in fact overweight. When one is overweight, they are not necessarily obese. I'm pretty sure everyone here can tell where she is on the spectrum. No one is being fooled, if someone use the term overweight, into thinking she is only 15 pounds heavier than she needs to be.0 -
This has gotten long 'cause I pulled things from all 10 pages so far.
+1sawyeram wrote:I think the #effyourbeautystandards is an excellent campaign to shake up the fashion industry who portrays unattainable expectations through photoshop and models with an unhealthy (too low) BMI. I also understand that on the other end of the spectrum "fat acceptance" is just as bad, attempting to force people to accept it as the "norm."
Accepting yourself as who you are and wanting to be healthy are not mutually exclusive.
She doesn't seem to want to be healthy. (And yes, being morbidly obese is unhealthy.)
Her face (without makeup) & hair are pretty. The rest, including the abrasive attitude, isn't.
And there's no way that's a size 22. I wasn't that fat at my heaviest. I'm nearly 80 lb down and have a pair of jeans that's a size 20 that's a little loose right now. (Of course, thanks to the crazy sizing in women's clothing, I also have a "size 12" dress that fits.)
Yes. All of that.racheljonel wrote:I wasn't happy at all. Not because I necessarily hated myself, but because that much weight is so uncomfortable. NO clothing is comfortable at that size... it's either bunching up under rolls, digging into fat or clinging in a weird way. Not to mention getting winded when doing ANYTHING, the sweating, the chafing, not being able to fit in chairs or seats ... I could go on and on... it's just not fun. I guess she really doesn't know how inconvenient and ridiculous is to deal with all of that and that life can be so different, because she said she's been this way her whole life. I feel bad for her for that.
Yep.zipa wrote:I couldn't care less about whether or not she is considered attractive, and quite frankly, neither should she. What she should care about, however, is that she is morbidly obese and at a huge risk of several fatal medical conditions unless she does something about it.
That too.moiaussi wrote:I'm not saying she should hate herself, or not dress however she likes, or be subject to scorn. But I do think people need to acknowledge that there are major health risks to being that overweight and not pretend that it is as good a lifestyle choice as any other.
We (as a society) need to make being fat just as uncool as smoking, or drinking & driving, or using illegal drugs (or legal ones to excess). Those are not good lifestyle choices, and society frowns on them, and they have been becoming less. (Mostly... there are still some people trying to promote the use of some illegal drugs, and there are some people & groups trying to promote fat acceptance.)
Obviously not very effective, since she's still morbidly obese.dragonmaster wrote:It says that she works with a personal trainer 4 times a week.
I'd want the name & certifying body of that "trainer", so I could avoid using that person & be suspicious of others certified by the same organization.
And if her intake is supposedly set by a dietician &/or doctor, I'd want to avoid them too, because if she's actually following what they've told her to do, they're telling her to remain unhealthy.
Innate strength, from having to lug around all that excess weight everywhere, 24/7/365.yopeeps wrote:Are there any advantages to being morbidly obese because I know one none
Not getting cold as easily. (Fat insulates.)
But I'm happy to give those up, do some weightlifting, put on an extra layer, in order to be healthy.
Or put them where they're not on public display, so you're not "discriminated against" when you apply for a job & the company decides you don't portray the image they want for their company.aviva wrote:if you need an acceptance movement for tattoos and you really truly care that society accepts you for who you are, don't get the dumb tattoos ... tattoos are stupid
My (one & only) tattoo commemorates a very important & painful life-changing event in my life. It's somewhere that _very_ few people ever get to see.
Back when it was really difficult to get enough food to survive, let alone get fat, so it was a status symbol, as well as an indictor that a woman could carry a pregnancy to term & have a healthy baby.dewosa wrote:Fat chicks used to be worshipped
Yes.francl wrote:Fat shaming is wrong, but promoting obesity this way is not right either
Either a fetishist or someone who was fat & thought she looked good.dbmata wrote:Who came up with "fat is beautiful?"
Being mean to her (or any fat person) isn't right.evigeni wrote:Tell me that you hold disgust for the way she's treated by random hateful anonymous people and not the person
That's very different from knowing that being morbidly obese is very unhealthy, and knowing that she's morbidly obese, and wishing she'd take better care of herself.0 -
What people that have never been extremely overweight don't realize is that the bigger you are, the less people treat you like a person.
We get treated like we're stupid, we don't get hired for jobs, we're the butt of jokes. It's a little disgusting, honestly.
Then we get all the well-wishers; "Why don't you diet? Why don't you exercise? Be healthy!" Which involves disgusted looks as we try to engage in physical activity and order salads.
So we're left with very large, very mentally and physically unhealthy people that are either changing their bodies because they hate themselves(me), or aren't changing because they've been stomped into the mud so many times that they don't want to bother getting back up.
But then the body positivity movement started gaining popularity. "Love yourself at any size." And, rather than "promoting an unhealthy lifestyle", people started changing because they wanted to be healthy, because they had confidence. They could see large men and women that people found beautiful, that were happy just as they were, and finally found some positivity in the sea of negativity. And once you start to believe you're worth something, you start to find many things possible. Melissa McCarthy is a good example of this-She loved herself and decided to change to be healthier.
Mental health is just as important as physical health, and body positivity promotes that. America has a strong diet culture that is wreaking havoc on our perceptions of health, and models like this are trying to undo that damage one photoshoot at a time.0 -
One of the biggest lies we tell is that we don’t judge others. Of course we do, we judge every situation in our surroundings, every piece of data that our senses take in, and make nonstop judgments about that data every waking moment. When we say we aren’t going to be judgmental, we are actually saying that we aren’t going to articulate our judgments, usually in an effort to appear high-minded.
The overweight model looks like every female I’ve ever been acquainted with who has type II diabetes, hypertension, and /or heart disease when they reached their middle ages. She is 29 now and probably not experiencing obesity related health problems – wait until (if) she punishes her body for another 10-15 years and see how healthy she is.0 -
It says in the article that Tess Holliday left school at 17 because of relentless bullying as a child.
I really packed on the weight starting around age 6. My siblings taunted me *all* the time, and while the kids at school didn't taunt me openly, it was obvious that the skinny kids got preferential treatment in games and in social events.
By the time I was in middle school, I had a total eff your beauty standards attitude. Even though I was extremely active and basically had a rocking body (of a 24 year old though -- big boobs, hourglass figure, certainly didn't look like the other 13 year olds), I was made to feel like an outcast -- not necessarily in overt ways but definitely in subtle ways. One teacher asked me if I had eaten the rest of the pizza, for instance. Girls saying "let's just squeeze in together!" but I wasn't ever asked to just squeeze in with them.
So my body, which decided to grow out before growing up, then maturing at aged 12, really was my social enemy, and I had to choose between fitting in vs loving myself.
It's pretty damn hard to deal with those powerful social constructs when you are a teenager and just want to find a way to fit in.
It took me until my 30s to finally make peace with my body and see myself as having value, regardless of my weight.
This girl is still young, and is clearly still carrying the scars of bullying. She's making choices that reflect the circumstances of her recent history, and I'm not the least bit surprised that the statement she's making is "screw you."
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