Sugars
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lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Any doctors in the house want to clear up some confusion for me? I had always thought the advice was, in an ideal world, diabetics should avoid sugar and also cut carbs. Did I get it wrong?
Here is diabetes.org on the topic: http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/myths/?loc=db-slabnav
I have heard people who are high on the health benefits of low carb diets in general complaining that the recommendations for diabetic diets often tend to focus more on (arguably) outdated advice like lowering fat that have long been medical approaches to losing weight and not focused so much on lowering carbs.
Obviously medical advice for reducing calories is always going to suggest reducing sweets (non nutrient dense calories that also have a strong affect on blood sugar for someone prone to that), reducing processed carbs (similar reasons), and reducing certain kinds of lower nutrient or otherwise medically questioned high fat foods, especially trans fats and (for many medical professionals still) saturated fat.
I personally tend to think that somewhat lower carbs work for many (and truly low carb works for some, diabetes or no), and some doctors seem more interested in that approach, but I don't think it's at all the mainstream approach currently. I don't have even pre diabetes or insulin resistance and never have, though, so can't speak from personal experience.
This idea that that means eliminating fruit and grains and never ever being able to have a dessert again seems unfounded, however.
I agree that lowering sugar makes lowering weight easier, but I thought sugar and high carbs actually does more damage to a diabetic, too. That is where my confusion sets in.
Lowering is not eliminating. I believe the idea is balancing carbs so you reduce the blood sugar effect. That's consistent with what the diabetes.org link seems to be saying and what I've seen elsewhere.
But I'm sure some people who are experienced in TypeII and diet will weigh in again soon.
As I've learned to my dismay, the body will even turn protein into an insulin spike if it gets enough. So lowering is probably the best any of us can do. I was just thinking of the out of control blood sugar levels and the horrors of blindness and gangrenous limbs.0 -
Okay, help me out here. I'm not trying to be dense, sometimes I just am! Insulin sensitivity is the opposite of diabetes, correct? Meaning you want to eat in a way that increases insulin sensitivity, especially if you are diabetic or pre-diabetic, correct?
So doesn't low carb moderate protein high fat fit the bill according to recent research?0 -
There have been some prominent low carbers turning their backs on low carb diets because it made their insulin resistance/glucose tolerance worse. Improving glucose tolerance means you would be able to eat carbs.Okay, help me out here. I'm not trying to be dense, sometimes I just am! Insulin sensitivity is the opposite of diabetes, correct? Meaning you want to eat in a way that increases insulin sensitivity, especially if you are diabetic or pre-diabetic, correct?
So doesn't low carb moderate protein high fat fit the bill according to recent research?
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There have been some prominent low carbers turning their backs on low carb diets because it made their insulin resistance/glucose tolerance worse. Improving glucose tolerance means you would be able to eat carbs.Okay, help me out here. I'm not trying to be dense, sometimes I just am! Insulin sensitivity is the opposite of diabetes, correct? Meaning you want to eat in a way that increases insulin sensitivity, especially if you are diabetic or pre-diabetic, correct?
So doesn't low carb moderate protein high fat fit the bill according to recent research?
I haven't read that, I'll have to go looking for more research papers to wade through with a dictionary and much effort. I do know that too much protein can cause insulin spikes, though. I'm trying to lower mine to moderate levels because of this. But without medication, how could a diabetic ever improve glucose tolerance by eating higher carb/higher sugar?
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I posted a link earlier of an RCT here is is again. The link to the RCT is in here, also read the comments
There have been some prominent low carbers turning their backs on low carb diets because it made their insulin resistance/glucose tolerance worse. Improving glucose tolerance means you would be able to eat carbs.Okay, help me out here. I'm not trying to be dense, sometimes I just am! Insulin sensitivity is the opposite of diabetes, correct? Meaning you want to eat in a way that increases insulin sensitivity, especially if you are diabetic or pre-diabetic, correct?
So doesn't low carb moderate protein high fat fit the bill according to recent research?
I haven't read that, I'll have to go looking for more research papers to wade through with a dictionary and much effort. I do know that too much protein can cause insulin spikes, though. I'm trying to lower mine to moderate levels because of this. But without medication, how could a diabetic ever improve glucose tolerance by eating higher carb/higher sugar?
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2014/12/vegan-ma-pi-diet-bests-conventional.html#uds-search-results
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I posted a link earlier of an RCT here is is again. The link to the RCT is in here, also read the comments
There have been some prominent low carbers turning their backs on low carb diets because it made their insulin resistance/glucose tolerance worse. Improving glucose tolerance means you would be able to eat carbs.Okay, help me out here. I'm not trying to be dense, sometimes I just am! Insulin sensitivity is the opposite of diabetes, correct? Meaning you want to eat in a way that increases insulin sensitivity, especially if you are diabetic or pre-diabetic, correct?
So doesn't low carb moderate protein high fat fit the bill according to recent research?
I haven't read that, I'll have to go looking for more research papers to wade through with a dictionary and much effort. I do know that too much protein can cause insulin spikes, though. I'm trying to lower mine to moderate levels because of this. But without medication, how could a diabetic ever improve glucose tolerance by eating higher carb/higher sugar?
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2014/12/vegan-ma-pi-diet-bests-conventional.html#uds-search-results
Thanks, reading now. I also just found some rather neat stuff on Adiponectin, which many foods can positively affect, including vegan foods, and chocolate, even. It's also in avocados, pumpkins, olive oil, peanuts, beef, and I think I read it's in some grains.
I had never even heard of it before now. I wonder if it fits in with what you linked. Not sure where the possible cure using a very low calorie diet fits in, though.
Link: http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v7/n8/abs/nm0801_941.html
The fat-derived hormone adiponectin reverses insulin resistance associated with both lipoatrophy and obesity0 -
I posted a link earlier of an RCT here is is again. The link to the RCT is in here, also read the comments
There have been some prominent low carbers turning their backs on low carb diets because it made their insulin resistance/glucose tolerance worse. Improving glucose tolerance means you would be able to eat carbs.Okay, help me out here. I'm not trying to be dense, sometimes I just am! Insulin sensitivity is the opposite of diabetes, correct? Meaning you want to eat in a way that increases insulin sensitivity, especially if you are diabetic or pre-diabetic, correct?
So doesn't low carb moderate protein high fat fit the bill according to recent research?
I haven't read that, I'll have to go looking for more research papers to wade through with a dictionary and much effort. I do know that too much protein can cause insulin spikes, though. I'm trying to lower mine to moderate levels because of this. But without medication, how could a diabetic ever improve glucose tolerance by eating higher carb/higher sugar?
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2014/12/vegan-ma-pi-diet-bests-conventional.html#uds-search-results
They also lost weight because they were restricting calories. My impression from my doctor was that losing weight and restricting calories was the most important goal.
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Type 1 diabetes occurs when the immune system mistakenly attacks and kills the beta cells of the pancreas. No, or very little, insulin is released into the body
Type 2 diabetes occurs when the body can’t properly use the insulin that is released, or releases too little insulin.
About 90% of diabetics are type II. It is possible to have both types.
In both types of diabetes, prolonged high circulating blood sugars can cause damage to various body systems - kidneys, vascular/cardiac, vision.
For some diabetics, taking insulin allows normal metabolism of sugars.
Others can control their diabetes through diet, exercise, or other medications.
Many things cause insulin spikes (including protein and exercise), and naturally-produced insulin spikes do not appear to cause harm to the body in healthy individuals (although diabetics taking insulin must calculate their dosage carefully). Hypoglycemia is a topic for another thread.
Other things can be converted to sugar in the blood, like high intakes of protein. Getting a handle on insulin resistance, through managing weight, exercise, diet, tracking/limiting carbs (for some), and sometimes medications, is key to managing type II diabetes, not the complete elimination of carbs, which can have problematic side effects.
Low-carb diets work for some, but not all.
Source for some info used: http://www.diabetes.ca/about-diabetes/what-is-diabetes0 -
Type 1 diabetes occurs when the immune system mistakenly attacks and kills the beta cells of the pancreas. No, or very little, insulin is released into the body
Type 2 diabetes occurs when the body can’t properly use the insulin that is released, or releases too little insulin.
About 90% of diabetics are type II. It is possible to have both types.
In both types of diabetes, prolonged high circulating blood sugars can cause damage to various body systems - kidneys, vascular/cardiac, vision.
For some diabetics, taking insulin allows normal metabolism of sugars.
Others can control their diabetes through diet, exercise, or other medications.
Many things cause insulin spikes (including protein and exercise), and naturally-produced insulin spikes do not appear to cause harm to the body in healthy individuals (although diabetics taking insulin must calculate their dosage carefully). Hypoglycemia is a topic for another thread.
Other things can be converted to sugar in the blood, like high intakes of protein. Getting a handle on insulin resistance, through managing weight, exercise, diet, tracking/limiting carbs (for some), and sometimes medications, is key to managing type II diabetes, not the complete elimination of carbs, which can have problematic side effects.
Low-carb diets work for some, but not all.
Source for some info used: http://www.diabetes.ca/about-diabetes/what-is-diabetes
Thanks! So low carb could work for some, others might do better controlling their blood sugar other ways and can do so. Regardless, avoiding insulin spikes is good, right?
Exercise, though? Seriously? I didn't want to learn that one! (Diabetes runs heavily in my family, I'm doing my best to stay off that road, so this subject is important to me.)0 -
I was recently (Nov 2014) diagnosed as a type 2 myself. One of the interesting things about blood sugar is that it very easy to test. You don't have to guess when it comes to determining the impact of a particular food on your blood sugar levels. You can measure it.I have been doing good and staying under my daily calorie goal but often my sugars are too high I'm thinking maybe I need to skip that one snack at night especially because I have just been diagnosed with diabetes.
Get your doctor to prescribe a blood sugar monitor or just buy a cheap one.
Then it's simple. Eat then do some testing to see how your blood sugar reacts. Everyone will react a bit different. After a few trials you will start to determine what you can and cannot eat.
The American Diabetes Website has some good information including: http://community.diabetes.org/t5/Adults-Living-with-Type-2/What-you-wish-you-were-told-when-first-diagnosed/td-p/587491 as well as more detailed testing instructions.
By all means talk to registered dietitians specializing in diabetes. But do understand that they are somewhat constrained on what they can recommend. I talked to three and they all suggested a 240 grams of carb per day with low fat and reasonable protein. That is the government's party line. Unfortunately, from a government's perspective, as long as blood sugar can be controlled by drugs then it's not really necessary to try to reduce your levels to normal by diet.
In my case, I have found through testing that lowering carbs significantly lowers my blood sugar levels. Nothing extreme mind you, I aim for around 100 grams a day. I don't worry too much about food sugar because my reduced carb levels pretty much keeps my daily intake fairly low.
So test test test.0 -
Let me preface that I know nothing about diabetes.
Only that my uncle has it... he eats loads of carbs and sugar. His doctor simply said if he doesn't reign these things in he will be dead soon.
Whether his doctor is right or not I do not know??0 -
christinev297 wrote: »Let me preface that I know nothing about diabetes.
Only that my uncle has it... he eats loads of carbs and sugar. His doctor simply said if he doesn't reign these things in he will be dead soon.
Whether his doctor is right or not I do not know??
While diabetes is not caused by sugar, diabetes is controlled through a diet with moderated sugar and carbs. This means all sugar, including fruits, and not just processed sugar, and those wonderful breads, etc.. Diabetes runs rampant in my genetics, and thus far I don't have it. I have learned a lot from diabetics in my family, as well as a good friend who is insulin dependent.
Edited for clarity.0 -
Type 1 diabetes occurs when the immune system mistakenly attacks and kills the beta cells of the pancreas. No, or very little, insulin is released into the body
Type 2 diabetes occurs when the body can’t properly use the insulin that is released, or releases too little insulin.
About 90% of diabetics are type II. It is possible to have both types.
In both types of diabetes, prolonged high circulating blood sugars can cause damage to various body systems - kidneys, vascular/cardiac, vision.
For some diabetics, taking insulin allows normal metabolism of sugars.
Others can control their diabetes through diet, exercise, or other medications.
Many things cause insulin spikes (including protein and exercise), and naturally-produced insulin spikes do not appear to cause harm to the body in healthy individuals (although diabetics taking insulin must calculate their dosage carefully). Hypoglycemia is a topic for another thread.
Other things can be converted to sugar in the blood, like high intakes of protein. Getting a handle on insulin resistance, through managing weight, exercise, diet, tracking/limiting carbs (for some), and sometimes medications, is key to managing type II diabetes, not the complete elimination of carbs, which can have problematic side effects.
Low-carb diets work for some, but not all.
Source for some info used: http://www.diabetes.ca/about-diabetes/what-is-diabetes
Thanks! So low carb could work for some, others might do better controlling their blood sugar other ways and can do so. Regardless, avoiding insulin spikes is good, right?
Exercise, though? Seriously? I didn't want to learn that one! (Diabetes runs heavily in my family, I'm doing my best to stay off that road, so this subject is important to me.)
I'm not sure why you think insulin spikes are dangerous, when naturally produced by the body. Some people find it easier to manage cravings when they avoid glucose spikes (eat fiber, pair carbs with protein, switch in lower GI foods for higher GI foods), but that is a separate issue. Insulin helps regulate blood sugar levels in healthy people, and controls amino acid uptake by cells (can increase protein synthesis). If you have research supporting that insulin spikes produced by the body are dangerous, I would be interested in seeing it. All evidence points to exercise being beneficial for insulin sensitivity.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »Let me preface that I know nothing about diabetes.
Only that my uncle has it... he eats loads of carbs and sugar. His doctor simply said if he doesn't reign these things in he will be dead soon.
Whether his doctor is right or not I do not know??
I met a lady with diabetes, astronomical blood sugars, a foot amputated and a horrible ongoing infection. I also met a nearly blind retired doctor with diabetes who had recovered from a heart attack. He said if he had his time again he would spend it informing the world that diabetics should restrict their carbohydrate intake in order to maintain their blood glucose levels in a range that doesn't destroy their bodies.
I'm with your uncle's doctor on this.0 -
I have been doing good and staying under my daily calorie goal but often my sugars are too high I'm thinking maybe I need to skip that one snack at night especially because I have just been diagnosed with diabetes.
So how many grams per day is that ? MFPs lowest recommendation is from memory 45 grams at 1200 calories. As a diabetic your concern should be with total carbohydrates not just sugar per se.
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ceoverturf wrote: »If you're diabetic, talk to your doctor, and follow his/her advice.
This0 -
Type 1 diabetes occurs when the immune system mistakenly attacks and kills the beta cells of the pancreas. No, or very little, insulin is released into the body
Type 2 diabetes occurs when the body can’t properly use the insulin that is released, or releases too little insulin.
About 90% of diabetics are type II. It is possible to have both types.
In both types of diabetes, prolonged high circulating blood sugars can cause damage to various body systems - kidneys, vascular/cardiac, vision.
For some diabetics, taking insulin allows normal metabolism of sugars.
Others can control their diabetes through diet, exercise, or other medications.
Many things cause insulin spikes (including protein and exercise), and naturally-produced insulin spikes do not appear to cause harm to the body in healthy individuals (although diabetics taking insulin must calculate their dosage carefully). Hypoglycemia is a topic for another thread.
Other things can be converted to sugar in the blood, like high intakes of protein. Getting a handle on insulin resistance, through managing weight, exercise, diet, tracking/limiting carbs (for some), and sometimes medications, is key to managing type II diabetes, not the complete elimination of carbs, which can have problematic side effects.
Low-carb diets work for some, but not all.
Source for some info used: http://www.diabetes.ca/about-diabetes/what-is-diabetes
Thanks! So low carb could work for some, others might do better controlling their blood sugar other ways and can do so. Regardless, avoiding insulin spikes is good, right?
Exercise, though? Seriously? I didn't want to learn that one! (Diabetes runs heavily in my family, I'm doing my best to stay off that road, so this subject is important to me.)
I'm not sure why you think insulin spikes are dangerous, when naturally produced by the body. Some people find it easier to manage cravings when they avoid glucose spikes (eat fiber, pair carbs with protein, switch in lower GI foods for higher GI foods), but that is a separate issue. Insulin helps regulate blood sugar levels in healthy people, and controls amino acid uptake by cells (can increase protein synthesis). If you have research supporting that insulin spikes produced by the body are dangerous, I would be interested in seeing it. All evidence points to exercise being beneficial for insulin sensitivity.
Because of abstracts like this:
"Increasing evidence suggests that the postprandial state is a contributing factor to the development of atherosclerosis. In diabetes, the postprandial phase is characterized by a rapid and large increase in blood glucose levels, and the possibility that the postprandial “hyperglycemic spikes” may be relevant to the onset of cardiovascular complications has recently received much attention. Epidemiological studies and preliminary intervention studies have shown that postprandial hyperglycemia is a direct and independent risk factor for cardiovascular disease (CVD). Most of the cardiovascular risk factors are modified in the postprandial phase in diabetic subjects and directly affected by an acute increase of glycemia. The mechanisms through which acute hyperglycemia exerts its effects may be identified in the production of free radicals. This alarmingly suggestive body of evidence for a harmful effect of postprandial hyperglycemia on diabetes complications has been sufficient to influence guidelines from key professional scientific societies. Correcting the postprandial hyperglycemia may form part of the strategy for the prevention and management of CVDs in diabetes."
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/54/1/1.short
But maybe I'm failing to understand something?0 -
christinev297 wrote: »Let me preface that I know nothing about diabetes.
Only that my uncle has it... he eats loads of carbs and sugar. His doctor simply said if he doesn't reign these things in he will be dead soon.
Whether his doctor is right or not I do not know??
Eating a lot of carbs does not cause diabetes, but the disease itself affects how your body handles carbs. When you have it, carbs cause high blood sugar which then leads to problems with things like the kidneys and cardiovascular system. A person who has diabetes and does not control his/her blood sugar via diet, exercise, medication (if the first two aren't enough) runs a real risk for death.
I was diagnosed in Jan, 2014 and was off medications by Nov. 2014. My doctor is a certified diabetic educator and recommends reduced carbs to all of her patients rather than low carb. I was given a max of 180 g. daily. She is really happy with my 35-35-30 (carb, protein, fat) ratio. The 35% gives me a daily target of 160 g which gives me wiggle room when I eat back some exercise calories.
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Have you tried using erythritol or a combination of erythritol and stevia to sweeten things? It is a natural sweetener, low GI and, compared to all other sugar alcohols, causes me no gastrointestinal discomfort. It definitely satisfies my sugar cravings0
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