Sugars
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Type 1 diabetes occurs when the immune system mistakenly attacks and kills the beta cells of the pancreas. No, or very little, insulin is released into the body
Type 2 diabetes occurs when the body can’t properly use the insulin that is released, or releases too little insulin.
About 90% of diabetics are type II. It is possible to have both types.
In both types of diabetes, prolonged high circulating blood sugars can cause damage to various body systems - kidneys, vascular/cardiac, vision.
For some diabetics, taking insulin allows normal metabolism of sugars.
Others can control their diabetes through diet, exercise, or other medications.
Many things cause insulin spikes (including protein and exercise), and naturally-produced insulin spikes do not appear to cause harm to the body in healthy individuals (although diabetics taking insulin must calculate their dosage carefully). Hypoglycemia is a topic for another thread.
Other things can be converted to sugar in the blood, like high intakes of protein. Getting a handle on insulin resistance, through managing weight, exercise, diet, tracking/limiting carbs (for some), and sometimes medications, is key to managing type II diabetes, not the complete elimination of carbs, which can have problematic side effects.
Low-carb diets work for some, but not all.
Source for some info used: http://www.diabetes.ca/about-diabetes/what-is-diabetes
Thanks! So low carb could work for some, others might do better controlling their blood sugar other ways and can do so. Regardless, avoiding insulin spikes is good, right?
Exercise, though? Seriously? I didn't want to learn that one! (Diabetes runs heavily in my family, I'm doing my best to stay off that road, so this subject is important to me.)
I'm not sure why you think insulin spikes are dangerous, when naturally produced by the body. Some people find it easier to manage cravings when they avoid glucose spikes (eat fiber, pair carbs with protein, switch in lower GI foods for higher GI foods), but that is a separate issue. Insulin helps regulate blood sugar levels in healthy people, and controls amino acid uptake by cells (can increase protein synthesis). If you have research supporting that insulin spikes produced by the body are dangerous, I would be interested in seeing it. All evidence points to exercise being beneficial for insulin sensitivity.
Because of abstracts like this:
"Increasing evidence suggests that the postprandial state is a contributing factor to the development of atherosclerosis. In diabetes, the postprandial phase is characterized by a rapid and large increase in blood glucose levels, and the possibility that the postprandial “hyperglycemic spikes” may be relevant to the onset of cardiovascular complications has recently received much attention. Epidemiological studies and preliminary intervention studies have shown that postprandial hyperglycemia is a direct and independent risk factor for cardiovascular disease (CVD). Most of the cardiovascular risk factors are modified in the postprandial phase in diabetic subjects and directly affected by an acute increase of glycemia. The mechanisms through which acute hyperglycemia exerts its effects may be identified in the production of free radicals. This alarmingly suggestive body of evidence for a harmful effect of postprandial hyperglycemia on diabetes complications has been sufficient to influence guidelines from key professional scientific societies. Correcting the postprandial hyperglycemia may form part of the strategy for the prevention and management of CVDs in diabetes."
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/54/1/1.short
But maybe I'm failing to understand something?
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319
This doesn't seem to apply to diabetics. If part of it does and I missed it, kindly post the relevant paragraph with the link to the peer reviewed study or abstract refuting the one I posted. Thanks!0 -
Type 1 diabetes occurs when the immune system mistakenly attacks and kills the beta cells of the pancreas. No, or very little, insulin is released into the body
Type 2 diabetes occurs when the body can’t properly use the insulin that is released, or releases too little insulin.
About 90% of diabetics are type II. It is possible to have both types.
In both types of diabetes, prolonged high circulating blood sugars can cause damage to various body systems - kidneys, vascular/cardiac, vision.
For some diabetics, taking insulin allows normal metabolism of sugars.
Others can control their diabetes through diet, exercise, or other medications.
Many things cause insulin spikes (including protein and exercise), and naturally-produced insulin spikes do not appear to cause harm to the body in healthy individuals (although diabetics taking insulin must calculate their dosage carefully). Hypoglycemia is a topic for another thread.
Other things can be converted to sugar in the blood, like high intakes of protein. Getting a handle on insulin resistance, through managing weight, exercise, diet, tracking/limiting carbs (for some), and sometimes medications, is key to managing type II diabetes, not the complete elimination of carbs, which can have problematic side effects.
Low-carb diets work for some, but not all.
Source for some info used: http://www.diabetes.ca/about-diabetes/what-is-diabetes
Thanks! So low carb could work for some, others might do better controlling their blood sugar other ways and can do so. Regardless, avoiding insulin spikes is good, right?
Exercise, though? Seriously? I didn't want to learn that one! (Diabetes runs heavily in my family, I'm doing my best to stay off that road, so this subject is important to me.)
I'm not sure why you think insulin spikes are dangerous, when naturally produced by the body. Some people find it easier to manage cravings when they avoid glucose spikes (eat fiber, pair carbs with protein, switch in lower GI foods for higher GI foods), but that is a separate issue. Insulin helps regulate blood sugar levels in healthy people, and controls amino acid uptake by cells (can increase protein synthesis). If you have research supporting that insulin spikes produced by the body are dangerous, I would be interested in seeing it. All evidence points to exercise being beneficial for insulin sensitivity.
Because of abstracts like this:
"Increasing evidence suggests that the postprandial state is a contributing factor to the development of atherosclerosis. In diabetes, the postprandial phase is characterized by a rapid and large increase in blood glucose levels, and the possibility that the postprandial “hyperglycemic spikes” may be relevant to the onset of cardiovascular complications has recently received much attention. Epidemiological studies and preliminary intervention studies have shown that postprandial hyperglycemia is a direct and independent risk factor for cardiovascular disease (CVD). Most of the cardiovascular risk factors are modified in the postprandial phase in diabetic subjects and directly affected by an acute increase of glycemia. The mechanisms through which acute hyperglycemia exerts its effects may be identified in the production of free radicals. This alarmingly suggestive body of evidence for a harmful effect of postprandial hyperglycemia on diabetes complications has been sufficient to influence guidelines from key professional scientific societies. Correcting the postprandial hyperglycemia may form part of the strategy for the prevention and management of CVDs in diabetes."
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/54/1/1.short
But maybe I'm failing to understand something?
Are you confusing insulin spikes with glucose spikes? Glucose spikes are what is dangerous to diabetics.
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Type 1 diabetes occurs when the immune system mistakenly attacks and kills the beta cells of the pancreas. No, or very little, insulin is released into the body
Type 2 diabetes occurs when the body can’t properly use the insulin that is released, or releases too little insulin.
About 90% of diabetics are type II. It is possible to have both types.
In both types of diabetes, prolonged high circulating blood sugars can cause damage to various body systems - kidneys, vascular/cardiac, vision.
For some diabetics, taking insulin allows normal metabolism of sugars.
Others can control their diabetes through diet, exercise, or other medications.
Many things cause insulin spikes (including protein and exercise), and naturally-produced insulin spikes do not appear to cause harm to the body in healthy individuals (although diabetics taking insulin must calculate their dosage carefully). Hypoglycemia is a topic for another thread.
Other things can be converted to sugar in the blood, like high intakes of protein. Getting a handle on insulin resistance, through managing weight, exercise, diet, tracking/limiting carbs (for some), and sometimes medications, is key to managing type II diabetes, not the complete elimination of carbs, which can have problematic side effects.
Low-carb diets work for some, but not all.
Source for some info used: http://www.diabetes.ca/about-diabetes/what-is-diabetes
Thanks! So low carb could work for some, others might do better controlling their blood sugar other ways and can do so. Regardless, avoiding insulin spikes is good, right?
Exercise, though? Seriously? I didn't want to learn that one! (Diabetes runs heavily in my family, I'm doing my best to stay off that road, so this subject is important to me.)
I'm not sure why you think insulin spikes are dangerous, when naturally produced by the body. Some people find it easier to manage cravings when they avoid glucose spikes (eat fiber, pair carbs with protein, switch in lower GI foods for higher GI foods), but that is a separate issue. Insulin helps regulate blood sugar levels in healthy people, and controls amino acid uptake by cells (can increase protein synthesis). If you have research supporting that insulin spikes produced by the body are dangerous, I would be interested in seeing it. All evidence points to exercise being beneficial for insulin sensitivity.
Because of abstracts like this:
"Increasing evidence suggests that the postprandial state is a contributing factor to the development of atherosclerosis. In diabetes, the postprandial phase is characterized by a rapid and large increase in blood glucose levels, and the possibility that the postprandial “hyperglycemic spikes” may be relevant to the onset of cardiovascular complications has recently received much attention. Epidemiological studies and preliminary intervention studies have shown that postprandial hyperglycemia is a direct and independent risk factor for cardiovascular disease (CVD). Most of the cardiovascular risk factors are modified in the postprandial phase in diabetic subjects and directly affected by an acute increase of glycemia. The mechanisms through which acute hyperglycemia exerts its effects may be identified in the production of free radicals. This alarmingly suggestive body of evidence for a harmful effect of postprandial hyperglycemia on diabetes complications has been sufficient to influence guidelines from key professional scientific societies. Correcting the postprandial hyperglycemia may form part of the strategy for the prevention and management of CVDs in diabetes."
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/54/1/1.short
But maybe I'm failing to understand something?
Are you confusing insulin spikes with glucose spikes? Glucose spikes are what is dangerous to diabetics.
I don't know, am I? I'm asking. Okay, it works like this, right:
Body takes in carbs of any kind or takes in too much protein, and turns it into glucose. So the pancreas releases insulin to deal with the glucose. In a healthy person, no worries. In an unhealthy person, the pancreas doesn't work as well so the blood continues to have high levels of glucose in it.
Either way, dumping a lot of what the body turns into glucose into someone with a malfunctioning pancreas seems like a bad idea.
I didn't cheat and google that, someone please feel free to point, laugh, and correct me if I got it wrong. I'm trying to get it down correctly.0 -
I don't know, am I? I'm asking. Okay, it works like this, right:
Body takes in carbs of any kind or takes in too much protein, and turns it into glucose. So the pancreas releases insulin to deal with the glucose. In a healthy person, no worries. In an unhealthy person, the pancreas doesn't work as well so the blood continues to have high levels of glucose in it.
Either way, dumping a lot of what the body turns into glucose into someone with a malfunctioning pancreas seems like a bad idea.
I didn't cheat and google that, someone please feel free to point, laugh, and correct me if I got it wrong. I'm trying to get it down correctly.
You basically just described T2D and it is managed by reducing the glucose in the bloodstream either by diet and exercise, medication, or insulin injections. Some of your other posts were talking about the dangers of insulin spikes and Mr M27 posted a link that explains why insulin spikes aren't dangerous but you seemed to refute it. I am just wondering if you are saying insulin when you meant glucose.
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I don't know, am I? I'm asking. Okay, it works like this, right:
Body takes in carbs of any kind or takes in too much protein, and turns it into glucose. So the pancreas releases insulin to deal with the glucose. In a healthy person, no worries. In an unhealthy person, the pancreas doesn't work as well so the blood continues to have high levels of glucose in it.
Either way, dumping a lot of what the body turns into glucose into someone with a malfunctioning pancreas seems like a bad idea.
I didn't cheat and google that, someone please feel free to point, laugh, and correct me if I got it wrong. I'm trying to get it down correctly.
You basically just described T2D and it is managed by reducing the glucose in the bloodstream either by diet and exercise, medication, or insulin injections. Some of your other posts were talking about the dangers of insulin spikes and Mr M27 posted a link that explains why insulin spikes aren't dangerous but you seemed to refute it. I am just wondering if you are saying insulin when you meant glucose.
Well his article wasn't for diabetics. And if I take in massive amounts of carbs or protein that convert to glucose, isn't it still going to mean my pancreas is going to release a lot of insulin, hence a spike?
Okay, going to google, though, since I'm mixing up my terminology either way. Thanks!0 -
prettykitty1515 wrote: »
So no fruits, vegetables, brown rice, oatmeal or whole grain bread?prettykitty1515 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Does anyone still think PrettyKitty is a genuine account?
Seriously?
I actually do. I really think she actually believes the things she writes. It goes with the first thread she made when she came here and it was a disaster.
Yes, I do believe what I write. Pre-diabetic? ZERO SUGAR!
Vegetables are fine. And this is not a change for the rest of your life, it's a change to hopefully have your doctor tell you that you are no longer pre-diabetic. Once your OK, eat fruit, brown rice, oatmeal and whole grain bread. And yes, I am basing this on anecdotal evidence.
From this article: http://ask.metafilter.com/237108/How-to-Get-Rid-of-Prediabetes
"Today, you begin a life with very very little bread. And very little pasta, rice, and crackers. Today you stop eating cookies, and for God's sakes please put down the donut and the cake and basically anything that comes in a shiny brightly colored bag that you can buy at the pharmacy or gas station."
"Eat nuts, eat lean meats, eat all the vegetables (besides potatoes) that you want. Eat plain yogurt with berries. Eggs are good for you. Get used to Truvia, Splenda, erithryitol if you simply must have something sweet. AVOID all the crappy "sugar-free" candies that use sugar alcohols, as stuff like Maltitol has about the same glycemic impact as table sugar."
Now let the attacks from the usual suspects begin.
If you can eat them while not pre-diabetic, why would you not be able to eat them while trying to become not pre-diabetic? That would imply those foods aren't the issue (because they won't make you pre-diabetic again when you add them back in). As the OP's doctor mentioned, the bigger issue is losing weight.0 -
Taubes should be kicked in the head for making people afraid of insulin0
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Okay, think I got it now. After you eat something that increases glucose, you will get an insulin spike if you are healthy as your body's way of dealing with it, right? But if your pancreas isn't working right, you won't, and then the glucose stays in your bloodstream and does damage. Is that right?0
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I don't need medication yet and he told me if I could lose 15 to 20 pounds I could reverse it which is what I am trying to do. He told me to cut back on carbs and sweets and suggested some sugar free candy. I didn't see anything wrong with having one treat after dinner usually a WW snack or those 120 calorie skinny cow packets of chocolate just a little something sweet after being good all day.
I think you're on the right track! that's why you're here right? its just a warning for you to start making changes (otherwise you may need meds?!.) If you like those snacks...its ok....have them....just try to cut out carbs elsewhere in your diet...you'd be amazed at how many things have them. And maybe, just maybe try to have those snacks earlier in the day as opposed to closer to bedtime. Hope that helps!
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Okay, think I got it now. After you eat something that increases glucose, you will get an insulin spike if you are healthy as your body's way of dealing with it, right? But if your pancreas isn't working right, you won't, and then the glucose stays in your bloodstream and does damage. Is that right?
Yes, that is a nice summation.
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »I have been doing good and staying under my daily calorie goal but often my sugars are too high I'm thinking maybe I need to skip that one snack at night especially because I have just been diagnosed with diabetes.
If you are staying under your calorie goal then don't worry about your sugar.
You seriously will not be eating it to a level that it will be adverse to your health.
As long as you are hitting your protein goal and staying within calories - you are doing all you need to do.
If you are concerned that you are eating too much though or your doctor advises otherwise, then hey it's okay not to eat as much sugar as everyone else. You will be just as healthy without.
Don't sweat the little stuff.
Great advice!
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prettykitty1515 wrote: »
So no fruits, vegetables, brown rice, oatmeal or whole grain bread?prettykitty1515 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Does anyone still think PrettyKitty is a genuine account?
Seriously?
I actually do. I really think she actually believes the things she writes. It goes with the first thread she made when she came here and it was a disaster.
Yes, I do believe what I write. Pre-diabetic? ZERO SUGAR!
Vegetables are fine. And this is not a change for the rest of your life, it's a change to hopefully have your doctor tell you that you are no longer pre-diabetic. Once your OK, eat fruit, brown rice, oatmeal and whole grain bread. And yes, I am basing this on anecdotal evidence.
From this article: http://ask.metafilter.com/237108/How-to-Get-Rid-of-Prediabetes
"Today, you begin a life with very very little bread. And very little pasta, rice, and crackers. Today you stop eating cookies, and for God's sakes please put down the donut and the cake and basically anything that comes in a shiny brightly colored bag that you can buy at the pharmacy or gas station."
"Eat nuts, eat lean meats, eat all the vegetables (besides potatoes) that you want. Eat plain yogurt with berries. Eggs are good for you. Get used to Truvia, Splenda, erithryitol if you simply must have something sweet. AVOID all the crappy "sugar-free" candies that use sugar alcohols, as stuff like Maltitol has about the same glycemic impact as table sugar."
Now let the attacks from the usual suspects begin.
PK,
Come on, any "attacks" are in your perception only, just as the "usual suspects" are. Nobody here is out to get you.
That said, what you've posted is a link to someone's blog entry. There are no links to peer reviewed studies.
If you are diagnosed as pre-diabetic, which I'm not even sure I believe in because sugar does not cause diabetes, why would you not make carb/sugar moderation a lifetime goal? Why just do it for awhile? It seems to me that if you are indeed pre-diabetic and you control your glucose levels through diet but then go back to eating in a way you did before, wouldn't you end up having high glucose levels?
Saying you can be cured of pre-diabetes is like saying you can be cured of diabetes. There is no cure for diabetes, though it can be controlled through sugar/carb moderation, exercise, and insulin pills or injections if needed.
By the way, this is not an attack, it is engaging in conversation based on something you wrote.0 -
emartins1975 wrote: »I don't need medication yet and he told me if I could lose 15 to 20 pounds I could reverse it which is what I am trying to do. He told me to cut back on carbs and sweets and suggested some sugar free candy. I didn't see anything wrong with having one treat after dinner usually a WW snack or those 120 calorie skinny cow packets of chocolate just a little something sweet after being good all day.
I think you're on the right track! that's why you're here right? its just a warning for you to start making changes (otherwise you may need meds?!.) If you like those snacks...its ok....have them....just try to cut out carbs elsewhere in your diet...you'd be amazed at how many things have them. And maybe, just maybe try to have those snacks earlier in the day as opposed to closer to bedtime. Hope that helps!
Meal timing has nothing to do with how the body deals with glucose in the bloodstream.
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prettykitty1515 wrote: »prettykitty1515 wrote: »
So no fruits, vegetables, brown rice, oatmeal or whole grain bread?prettykitty1515 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Does anyone still think PrettyKitty is a genuine account?
Seriously?
I actually do. I really think she actually believes the things she writes. It goes with the first thread she made when she came here and it was a disaster.
Yes, I do believe what I write. Pre-diabetic? ZERO SUGAR!
Vegetables are fine. And this is not a change for the rest of your life, it's a change to hopefully have your doctor tell you that you are no longer pre-diabetic. Once your OK, eat fruit, brown rice, oatmeal and whole grain bread. And yes, I am basing this on anecdotal evidence.
From this article: http://ask.metafilter.com/237108/How-to-Get-Rid-of-Prediabetes
"Today, you begin a life with very very little bread. And very little pasta, rice, and crackers. Today you stop eating cookies, and for God's sakes please put down the donut and the cake and basically anything that comes in a shiny brightly colored bag that you can buy at the pharmacy or gas station."
"Eat nuts, eat lean meats, eat all the vegetables (besides potatoes) that you want. Eat plain yogurt with berries. Eggs are good for you. Get used to Truvia, Splenda, erithryitol if you simply must have something sweet. AVOID all the crappy "sugar-free" candies that use sugar alcohols, as stuff like Maltitol has about the same glycemic impact as table sugar."
Now let the attacks from the usual suspects begin.
That makes absolutely no sense at all. Like Auddii already said, you stop eating them now to eliminate the possibility of getting diabetes but then after you've done that you can eat them again? Because suddenly you'll become immune to any negative effects you think those foods had in the first place?
You think people attack you because we like to, but in reality it's because you say a lot of things that don't make sense and are constantly making things up.
Also, carbs don't cause diabetes.
You can eat anything in moderation, correct? A bowl of oatmeal every morning is not going to make you pre-diabetic.
Maybe people become pre-diabetic because they're eating half a container of Ben and Jerry's every night or guzzling Coke, for goodness sakes. Get your sugar levels down to normal levels, and enjoy some oatmeal.
And this is why I quit eating ice cream, soda, and cookies. I'd rather not eat it at all than consume it at safe levels, and waking up the next morning sick, depressed, and craving after a Ben and Jerry's feast sucks. Nor do I want to screw up my health. And I like it when my jeans fit!
Sadly, oatmeal is also off the table for me. It's not appetizing completely unsweetened, and if I sweeten it with anything I will eat the whole box in an evening. Eventually I may try a savory version, though. I've read some good recipes. I'll save that for right before a nice long hike.0 -
emartins1975 wrote: »I don't need medication yet and he told me if I could lose 15 to 20 pounds I could reverse it which is what I am trying to do. He told me to cut back on carbs and sweets and suggested some sugar free candy. I didn't see anything wrong with having one treat after dinner usually a WW snack or those 120 calorie skinny cow packets of chocolate just a little something sweet after being good all day.
I think you're on the right track! that's why you're here right? its just a warning for you to start making changes (otherwise you may need meds?!.) If you like those snacks...its ok....have them....just try to cut out carbs elsewhere in your diet...you'd be amazed at how many things have them. And maybe, just maybe try to have those snacks earlier in the day as opposed to closer to bedtime. Hope that helps!
Meal timing has nothing to do with how the body deals with glucose in the bloodstream.
And strangely enough, I handle carbs better late at night (no clue if this is psychosomatic or not). I have reactive hypoglycemia, and I can eat bread and ice cream at night, but if I do it earlier in the day, I seem more likely to get shaky from it. No clue why.
But, if you don't already notice clear timing trends, there's no reason to think that changing the timing of your carb intake will affect you in any way.0
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