I don't eat clean. I won't eat clean. It's a stupid concept.
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if i want rice, i eat rice. if i want an apple, i eat an apple. if i want a piece of pumpkin pie, i eat a piece of pumpkin pie. i don't eat the whole pie. this is how you lose weight and get fit. you don't do it by adhering to lists of "approved" and "unapproved" foods.
Not sure the OP understands what "eating clean" actually means. :huh:
OP is not sure anyone understands what "eating clean" actually means.
I'd suggest all the clean eaters draft and post their own specific definitions of what "clean eating" means. I'd love to watch that discussion. Better in another thread though as I suspect there are as many definitions as clean eaters.
just make your own stuff it tastes better than store bought any ways I hate store bought pies and cookies blah
That's an interesting definition. Anyone want to elaborate on that?
What if the pumpkin pie was made fresh in the store's bakery? Is that better than the Mrs. Smith's in the freezer section? Or are they both "unclean"? Nah.
Does pumpkin pie made at home out of a can and with a store bought crust qualify? You can make your own
Is it okay if you buy the flour, pumpkins and milk at the store and put it together at home? why not do it at home
What about the sugar? Is white sugar okay? truvia
And white flour. Is white flour clean? Brown Rice flower
Does one need to grow their own pumpkins, milk their own cow, and grow and grind their own grain? almond milk is good, find grains and pumkins at farmers markets
Wait! Is flour itself clean? Or is wheat not clean because it has to be milled? its just as easy to by coconut flour as it is regular flour.
Are non-organic pumpkins okay?yep... because you don't eat the outside.
Is milk itself okay? If milk is okay does it need to be from organic fed cows with no hormones? almond milk bro!
See answers above.
Interesting. Anything other than one word answers or explanation as to why milk, wheat and sugar are not clean? Or this your "belief" again? First off, I haven't called anything unclean.. This is just how I do it. I'm okay with having people disagree, this is discussion.
Any explanation of why almond milk is clean but not milk that is taken right out of a cow? Almond milk...milk right out of a cow.. tomato tomata.
Any explanation of why truvia is clean but sugar is not? Truvia is just ground up plant leaves. Again.. I haven't called anything unclean.
Have you ever eaten brown rice flowers? LOL flour.. that was a mistype
So we are back to belief then. Okay.
Call it what you want... you can call it "scientific fact"... but ultimately you are basing this all on your beliefs. Which scientist you choose to belief. Its pure faith.
That is an interesting view of the scientific method, and I will again have to say that an intelligent debate with someone who believes that is impossible.
"In professing to be wise, they became fools. "
In using quotes, one still doesn't understand the scientific method.
Very true. And the level of argumentation in this thread highlights quite well why fad diets and cults alike continue to attract followers. Some people simply lack the critical thinking skills to make good decisions. And when finally faced with the fallacy in their arguments they revert to belief or silly quotations.0 -
Eating clean isn't a stupid concept. I am lung collapsing allergic to corn. Do you know how hard it is to find ANYTHING processed without corn in it in the country? Freaking lunch meat has corn in it. Ice cream has corn in it. Half the freaking preservatives out there are derived from a corn source. I'm glad you do what works for you, but don't get down on others for doing what works for them. I spent more then 3 of the last 4 years with less then 50% lung function before switching to eating clean (once the doctors figured out corn was my allergy. All this crud in everything makes pinning down allergies really hard.) Eating clean is the only way I can make sure there isn't corn in my diet. Good for you for doing what's right for you, but don't get down on others for doing what's good for them. I couldn't go for walks right now if I wasn't eating clean and I sure as heck couldn't exercise. Try 50% lung function sometime that eating clean is one of the only ways out of and let me know if you still think it's a stupid concept then -.-
I dont think it was OP's intention to deride those who eat a diet that works for them, but was more addressing those that eat some food system and proclaim it superior to all the rest.
Everyone who does not eat clean, does not care if others do if it works for them, its the bold proclamations that any thing less is going to cause you grave harm (not saying this is you but others)
It may not be doing everyone grave harm but it obviously is doing some. I don't really talk about my diet to others outside of, "sorry I can't eat that, allergic" and leave it at that, not really something I want to get into a discussion about in public. But 50% lung function I think would classify as grave harm, lungs collapsing certainly does. So they may have a point. Just saying, if you are going to be getting down on others for saying blanket statements, well it's quite interesting to do so by using your own blanket statements. I get what the op probably meant, regardless- it is not a stupid concept. It quite possibly saved my life at this points, and certainly within a few years the reality of my health situation would have been death.
I don't think you'd find the OP, or anyone else, saying it's stupid to avoid foods that cause that kind of harm to you.
I also don't think it's reasonable to think that was the intent of his "blanket statement."
It's sort of silly that it is necessary, but I often see people here adding statements like "as long as you don't have any specific medical conditions...." One would have to infer evil intent on the part of the OP to encourage you to eat something that could damage you like that.0 -
Eating clean isn't a stupid concept. I am lung collapsing allergic to corn. Do you know how hard it is to find ANYTHING processed without corn in it in the country? Freaking lunch meat has corn in it. Ice cream has corn in it. Half the freaking preservatives out there are derived from a corn source. I'm glad you do what works for you, but don't get down on others for doing what works for them. I spent more then 3 of the last 4 years with less then 50% lung function before switching to eating clean (once the doctors figured out corn was my allergy. All this crud in everything makes pinning down allergies really hard.) Eating clean is the only way I can make sure there isn't corn in my diet. Good for you for doing what's right for you, but don't get down on others for doing what's good for them. I couldn't go for walks right now if I wasn't eating clean and I sure as heck couldn't exercise. Try 50% lung function sometime that eating clean is one of the only ways out of and let me know if you still think it's a stupid concept then -.-
I dont think it was OP's intention to deride those who eat a diet that works for them, but was more addressing those that eat some food system and proclaim it superior to all the rest.
Everyone who does not eat clean, does not care if others do if it works for them, its the bold proclamations that any thing less is going to cause you grave harm (not saying this is you but others)
It may not be doing everyone grave harm but it obviously is doing some. I don't really talk about my diet to others outside of, "sorry I can't eat that, allergic" and leave it at that, not really something I want to get into a discussion about in public. But 50% lung function I think would classify as grave harm, lungs collapsing certainly does. So they may have a point. Just saying, if you are going to be getting down on others for saying blanket statements, well it's quite interesting to do so by using your own blanket statements. I get what the op probably meant, regardless- it is not a stupid concept. It quite possibly saved my life at this points, and certainly within a few years the reality of my health situation would have been death.
Right, and OP would say you should be avoiding those foods. Good for you. But Now if you said that all people should eat like you because of your corn allergy, than he and many others would have a problem.
Which is why I have a problem with the post. He was using blanket statements himself. I get what you are saying, and what others were saying, maybe that's what the op meant, but it's not what he said. What he said was no better then what you all are saying you have an issue with.0 -
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First, the phrase "clean eating" is really just a fancy term for eating good, whole foods. It's not a fad diet. It's a wholesome diet--diet here meaning the kinds of food that a person, animal, or community habitually eats- the dictionary definition of the noun diet.
I recommend the documentary "Hungry for Change" then re-evaluate your concept of clean eating being stupid. As previously stated, many people eat clean to rid their body of toxins and chemicals that are found in processed food. Clean food isn't boring or gross. Pumpkin pie can be made using clean foods. Hitting your macros is great, meeting your calorie goal is great, but you'll feel much more satisfied if you're filling that with whole foods rather than Big Macs (not saying you do this, but in general).
it is a fad diet.The Eat-Clean Diet recommends avoiding all saturated fat, trans fats, overprocessed, refined foods -- especially white flour, sugar, sugar-loaded colas, juices, and alcohol.
The plan's guiding principles:
* Each meal should be between 200-300 calories.
* Eat a complex carbohydrate with protein (20-21 grams) at every meal.
* Drink at least 8 cups of water daily.
* Never miss a meal, especially breakfast.
* Consume adequate healthy fats each day.
“I recommend shopping at farmers markets or when at the grocery store, stick to the perimeter and choose foods with one to three pronounceable ingredients only, staying away from any food that comes in a box or bag that man has had a hand in creating or contains ingredients you can’t pronounce,” Reno says.
http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/eat-clean-diet-review
that's a checklist of do's and don't just like the sort you find with every other fad diet. i could debunk every single thing listed there except for the line about consuming healthy fats.
the Eat-Clean diet is not the same as clean eating....
would you like to try and explain the material difference between the two without calling all of the rest of us idiots?
i have yet to see anyone even attempt to define clean eating in this thread though, so good luck with that.
Clean eating would be to cut out as much processed/refined foods as you can and eat food AS IT OCCURS in nature. Think of a spectrum... at one end is a strawberry... picked from a plant.... grown in nature. In the middle of this spectrum is strawberry jam... so we done some things to the strawberry (cooked it, added pure sugar, etc). At the opposite end of the spectrum is strawberry fruit snacks which have very little strawberry left in them (it's mostly processed sugar or additives created in a lab). So clean eating would be those who want to stick to the "strawberry" and middle of the spectrum to cut out processing and additives. It's MUCH better to eat strawberries with a little raw sugar on them then strawberry fruit snacks (or so clean eaters think)
Cutting out all the processing and additives and eat foods as close to their natural state as they can.... does that make sense?0 -
I have not claimed any science at all. Just that in trusting in someone elses science you are using faith- unles you yourself are the scientist. Clean Eaters will post up a bunch of articles from other men with "scientific facts" saying that they are right. And IIFYMers will do the same... ultimately your trusting one mans "science" or the other. Just call it what it is. Faith.
Faith =\= Science. Faith is believing something without empirical proof. Science is proof. If you can't get your head around that...well, we've all burned a lot of calories typing and banging our heads on the wall at least.0 -
How do you come to the conclusion coal or carbon is synthetic?Pringles have about 42% potato content, the remainder being wheat starch and flours (potato, corn, and rice) mixed with vegetable oils, an emulsifier, salt, and seasoning.[14] Other ingredients can include artificial sweeteners like maltodextrin and dextrose, monosodium glutamate (MSG), disodium inosinate, disodium guanylate, sodium caseinate, modified food starch, monoglyceride and diglyceride, autolyzed yeast extract, natural and artificial flavors, malted barley flour, wheat bran, dried black beans, sour cream, cheddar cheese, etc; Pringles varieties vary in their ingredients. (from Wiki)
From Ehow: The active ingredient in perming lotion, whether for curling or straightening hair, is a chemical called ammonium thioglycolate. Ammonium thioglycolate is an ammonia salt of mercaptoacetic acid. Boxes of perm solution also list the ingredient as ammonium thyioglycolic acid.
Well, that one is right out.
Red #40 is made from coal. You know, carbon, that stuff that WE are made out of.
Any other great wisdom that you made up you'd like to share?
LOL carbon based life forms do not start out as a petroleum base that would kill us naturally like "coal tar" does. Just meet with a nutritionist and you'll be good to go....
OH and our bodies are NOT made out of anything synthetic... which is EXACTLY what Red #40 is.
I am just too exhausted for this... it all started out with me teasing someone and it's blown up... the fact is that Red #40 is a chemical synthetic compound... there really isn't any way around that....
Isn't the point to NOT eat chemicals created in a lab?
Whose point?0 -
Eating clean isn't a stupid concept. I am lung collapsing allergic to corn. Do you know how hard it is to find ANYTHING processed without corn in it in the country? Freaking lunch meat has corn in it. Ice cream has corn in it. Half the freaking preservatives out there are derived from a corn source. I'm glad you do what works for you, but don't get down on others for doing what works for them. I spent more then 3 of the last 4 years with less then 50% lung function before switching to eating clean (once the doctors figured out corn was my allergy. All this crud in everything makes pinning down allergies really hard.) Eating clean is the only way I can make sure there isn't corn in my diet. Good for you for doing what's right for you, but don't get down on others for doing what's good for them. I couldn't go for walks right now if I wasn't eating clean and I sure as heck couldn't exercise. Try 50% lung function sometime that eating clean is one of the only ways out of and let me know if you still think it's a stupid concept then -.-
I dont think it was OP's intention to deride those who eat a diet that works for them, but was more addressing those that eat some food system and proclaim it superior to all the rest.
Everyone who does not eat clean, does not care if others do if it works for them, its the bold proclamations that any thing less is going to cause you grave harm (not saying this is you but others)
It may not be doing everyone grave harm but it obviously is doing some. I don't really talk about my diet to others outside of, "sorry I can't eat that, allergic" and leave it at that, not really something I want to get into a discussion about in public. But 50% lung function I think would classify as grave harm, lungs collapsing certainly does. So they may have a point. Just saying, if you are going to be getting down on others for saying blanket statements, well it's quite interesting to do so by using your own blanket statements. I get what the op probably meant, regardless- it is not a stupid concept. It quite possibly saved my life at this points, and certainly within a few years the reality of my health situation would have been death.
I don't think you'd find the OP, or anyone else, saying it's stupid to avoid foods that cause that kind of harm to you.
I also don't think it's reasonable to think that was the intent of his "blanket statement."
It's sort of silly that it is necessary, but I often see people here adding statements like "as long as you don't have any specific medical conditions...." One would have to infer evil intent on the part of the OP to encourage you to eat something that could damage you like that.
no, I'm simply pointing out that he was speaking in the same blanket way that he was saying he didn't like others doing. Those who eat clean do so because they feel (and studies have agreed) that the chemicals in processed foods are damaging. My corn allergy demonstrates to the extreme what having damaging things to you in all your foods can do. My reason for eating clean is identical as anyone else's, to avoid harmful substances. Mine just happens to be a food that is not harmful to others. The point is still valid, it just demonstrates it to the extreme. The concept is not stupid. If you choose not to do it, fine- but don't get down on those that do.0 -
I clean my plate at every meal!0
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The logical failure from some people is astounding.0
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I don't think it has anything to do with my success... I just don't want to eat foods processed in a lab.... our bodies are NOT meant to process that crap!!
Just an example.... did you know that Pringles contain one of the SAME chemicals they use to perm hair?? Yep... you eat perm.... (along with 12 other additives created in a lab)
OH and doritios contain Red #40.... and Red #40 uses a type of bat poop to get it's color... yep... bat poop....
There are so many things wrong with this post that I do not know where to begin.
Let's hear them... I get my info from a nutritionist....
Ok, let us begin with the glaringly obvious.
Insinuating that because Pringles use some of the same chemicals used in hair perms, thus making Pringles "icky", is worthless without stating what those chemicals are. Some pesticides contain water. Is water unhealthy?
Why is bat poop unhealthy? Do you realize that poop is sprayed on organic vegetables as a fertilizer?
Logic. It can be scary.
This. Times 100000. I want to virtually hug you (ETA: You being wheird) right now. :flowerforyou:
Common sense and logic are dying superpowers0 -
I don't think it has anything to do with my success... I just don't want to eat foods processed in a lab.... our bodies are NOT meant to process that crap!!
Just an example.... did you know that Pringles contain one of the SAME chemicals they use to perm hair?? Yep... you eat perm.... (along with 12 other additives created in a lab)
OH and doritios contain Red #40.... and Red #40 uses a type of bat poop to get it's color... yep... bat poop....
There are so many things wrong with this post that I do not know where to begin.
Let's hear them... I get my info from a nutritionist....
Ok, let us begin with the glaringly obvious.
Insinuating that because Pringles use some of the same chemicals used in hair perms, thus making Pringles "icky", is worthless without stating what those chemicals are. Some pesticides contain water. Is water unhealthy?
Why is bat poop unhealthy? Do you realize that poop is sprayed on organic vegetables as a fertilizer?
Logic. It can be scary.
This. Times 100000. I want to virtually hug you right now. :flowerforyou:
ALL YOUR HUGS ARE BELONG TO ME!!!!!0 -
so long as you don't try to steal all my logic :laugh:0
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You seem hangry might want to eat a bit more
omg THIS! ^^^0 -
I take the term clean eating to mean trying to eat more unprocessed food. Like a chicken breast, not chickent nuggets....fresh tomatoes instead of jar of sauce.0
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i worry about calories and macros (and micros) and don't worry what any self-appointed food shamers have to say about anything... ever.
i see lots of people on this site wear "how clean their diet is" as a badge of honor. it's not. it just means you've been hoodwinked into thinking that your success/failure is fully tied up in your food choices. it's not.
if i want rice, i eat rice. if i want an apple, i eat an apple. if i want a piece of pumpkin pie, i eat a piece of pumpkin pie. i don't eat the whole pie. this is how you lose weight and get fit. you don't do it by adhering to lists of "approved" and "unapproved" foods.
maybe i'm too easily irritated this morning, but i'm just sick of seeing people get sucked up into this fad (and related ones) and lose sight of the big picture in the process.
If it was only about losing weight, you could eat nothing but Twinkies (or Pop-Tarts--for the peanut gallery) and, if you stayed within your calorie limit, you would lose weight. But whether or not you would be healthy is another matter. To me, good health is a LOT a part of the equation and that is why I am here to lose weight safely and effectively. I tried crazy crash diets for years, but after I lost the weight, I would always gain it back (plus more) because I was malnourished by the time I was done with the diet.
I think most men here advocate eating 80% "clean" and then 20% whatever appeals to them. But men don't have the same problems losing weight as women do for a lot of reasons which are hormonal in nature. Most women on MFP don't have the luxury of eating whatever they want to.0 -
if i want rice, i eat rice. if i want an apple, i eat an apple. if i want a piece of pumpkin pie, i eat a piece of pumpkin pie. i don't eat the whole pie. this is how you lose weight and get fit. you don't do it by adhering to lists of "approved" and "unapproved" foods.
Not sure the OP understands what "eating clean" actually means. :huh:
OP is not sure anyone understands what "eating clean" actually means.
I'd suggest all the clean eaters draft and post their own specific definitions of what "clean eating" means. I'd love to watch that discussion. Better in another thread though as I suspect there are as many definitions as clean eaters.
just make your own stuff it tastes better than store bought any ways I hate store bought pies and cookies blah
That's an interesting definition. Anyone want to elaborate on that?
What if the pumpkin pie was made fresh in the store's bakery? Is that better than the Mrs. Smith's in the freezer section? Or are they both "unclean"? Nah.
Does pumpkin pie made at home out of a can and with a store bought crust qualify? You can make your own
Is it okay if you buy the flour, pumpkins and milk at the store and put it together at home? why not do it at home
What about the sugar? Is white sugar okay? truvia
And white flour. Is white flour clean? Brown Rice flower
Does one need to grow their own pumpkins, milk their own cow, and grow and grind their own grain? almond milk is good, find grains and pumkins at farmers markets
Wait! Is flour itself clean? Or is wheat not clean because it has to be milled? its just as easy to by coconut flour as it is regular flour.
Are non-organic pumpkins okay?yep... because you don't eat the outside.
Is milk itself okay? If milk is okay does it need to be from organic fed cows with no hormones? almond milk bro!
See answers above.
Interesting. Anything other than one word answers or explanation as to why milk, wheat and sugar are not clean? Or this your "belief" again? First off, I haven't called anything unclean.. This is just how I do it. I'm okay with having people disagree, this is discussion.
Any explanation of why almond milk is clean but not milk that is taken right out of a cow? Almond milk...milk right out of a cow.. tomato tomata.
Any explanation of why truvia is clean but sugar is not? Truvia is just ground up plant leaves. Again.. I haven't called anything unclean.
Have you ever eaten brown rice flowers? LOL flour.. that was a mistype
So we are back to belief then. Okay.
Call it what you want... you can call it "scientific fact"... but ultimately you are basing this all on your beliefs. Which scientist you choose to belief. Its pure faith.
That is an interesting view of the scientific method, and I will again have to say that an intelligent debate with someone who believes that is impossible.
"In professing to be wise, they became fools. "
In using quotes, one still doesn't understand the scientific method.
Very true. And the level of argumentation in this thread highlights quite well why fad diets and cults alike continue to attract followers. Some people simply lack the critical thinking skills to make good decisions. And when finally faced with the fallacy in their arguments they revert to belief or silly quotations.
Reallyyyyyy? Because you have shut off every time I have made my case. Your argument is your belief. Argue that. You can't. Because it's true. You, sir, are just reading articles and drawing conclusions based on what you believe- and hey, thats okay... but don't act like your some kind of a science hero and everyone else is beneath you. I have not argued for anything but fairness in this whole conversation. I could care less about the GMO's that I consume, nor have I sat here and argued that not eating clean will cause cancer. My arguement has simply been that both IIFYMers and Clean eaters can be jerks. My "critical thinking" is that you are calling the pot calling kettle black. Oh tell me more about how scientific you are and how your critical thinking skills are so high above everyone elses.... because you sound exactly like what everyone hates about "clean" eaters.0 -
i worry about calories and macros (and micros) and don't worry what any self-appointed food shamers have to say about anything... ever.
i see lots of people on this site wear "how clean their diet is" as a badge of honor. it's not. it just means you've been hoodwinked into thinking that your success/failure is fully tied up in your food choices. it's not.
if i want rice, i eat rice. if i want an apple, i eat an apple. if i want a piece of pumpkin pie, i eat a piece of pumpkin pie. i don't eat the whole pie. this is how you lose weight and get fit. you don't do it by adhering to lists of "approved" and "unapproved" foods.
maybe i'm too easily irritated this morning, but i'm just sick of seeing people get sucked up into this fad (and related ones) and lose sight of the big picture in the process.
If it was only about losing weight, you could eat nothing but Twinkies (or Pop-Tarts--for the peanut gallery) and, if you stayed within your calorie limit, you would lose weight. But whether or not you would be healthy is another matter. To me, good health is a LOT a part of the equation and that is why I am here to lose weight safely and effectively. I tried crazy crash diets for years, but after I lost the weight, I would always gain it back (plus more) because I was malnourished by the time I was done with the diet.
I think most men here advocate eating 80% "clean" and then 20% whatever appeals to them. But men don't have the same problems losing weight as women do for a lot of reasons which are hormonal in nature. Most women on MFP don't have the luxury of eating whatever they want to.
That last part is untrue.0 -
Reallyyyyyy? Because you have shut off every time I have made my case. Your argument is your belief. Argue that. You can't. Because it's true. You, sir, are just reading articles and drawing conclusions based on what you believe- and hey, thats okay... but don't act like your some kind of a science hero and everyone else is beneath you. I have not argued for anything but fairness in this whole conversation. I could care less about the GMO's that I consume, nor have I sat here and argued that not eating clean will cause cancer. My arguement has simply been that both IIFYMers and Clean eaters can be jerks. My "critical thinking" is that you are calling the pot calling kettle black. Oh tell me more about how scientific you are and how your critical thinking skills are so high above everyone elses.... because you sound exactly like what everyone hates about "clean" eaters.
I agree with this, this is why I posted, this is what was ticking me off about the thread.0 -
I have not claimed any science at all. Just that in trusting in someone elses science you are using faith- unles you yourself are the scientist. Clean Eaters will post up a bunch of articles from other men with "scientific facts" saying that they are right. And IIFYMers will do the same... ultimately your trusting one mans "science" or the other. Just call it what it is. Faith.
Faith =\= Science. Faith is believing something without empirical proof. Science is proof. If you can't get your head around that...well, we've all burned a lot of calories typing and banging our heads on the wall at least.
Where is your proof? In the article that you put your faith in. For every "scientific" article for IIFYM or Clean eating, theres another "scientific" article against it. There's always a new study... a new "proof." It comes down to who's "scientific proof" you are going to believe.
*Edited to add: I don't think that we should just throw all research aside and have a free for all... but ones opinion isn't higher than the other... it's just an opinion.0
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