Can I petition MFP users to use the terms "more ideal" and "less ideal" instead of good/bad foods?
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Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »What are you calling "requirements"? The CDC says men should get 56g of protein a day
http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html
I think if you talk to most people that lift weights or train people that lift they will recommend more protein. I would suggest that eating protein with the "extra" calories would make you healthier than filling in the calories with Ding Dongs, Cheetos, etc.
You're making the assumption that macro and micro goals aren't met first, but that isn't what's being advocated. What is being said is once your macro and micro goals are met then eat ice cream, Oreos, etc.
Edited to fix quotes as best I can.
Say you meet your macro and micro goals daily and have 500 calories "left over". If you go to a nutrition expert and ask them the best way to fill in the additional calories do you think they will say Ding Dongs, ice cream, etc on a daily basis.
That's exactly what my dietician said. First and foremost you should not deprive yourself. If you have room for a treat have one, but only if you have room for it. And you know what, it's so much better now then cutting everything I thought was bad out then binging and purging all of it later because I did a bad thing. It's okay to enjoy food. It's okay to enjoy life. Do not deprive yourself.Or do you think they will say eat a bit more of the nutritionally dense foods you are eating and occasionally have a treat?
So when people have already eating their nutritionally dense food and met their needs then it's okay to have a treat right? Isn't that what everyone is already saying? Moderation and finding balance is what works. If you're only worried about nutrition I have a product for you it's called soylent.0 -
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More gifs please.0
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This poor guy got one look at what happens in the safety box and was scarred for life!
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tincanonastring wrote: »
That there is a beautiful kitty cat gif and very appropriate! No worries.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »
Sorry, here is the response
A race car will run on gas from the convenient store, but not very well. Runs much better on racing fuel. Why fill your extra calories with junk when good, nutritionally dense food is available? Maybe a bit here and there, but not on a daily basis.
I will use your same analogy. What happens when the race car's fuel tank is full of racing fuel? Any extra racing fuel is wasted. Most water soluble micronutrients are wasted in excess, and fat soluble ones can build up to amounts that aren't necessary and in some cases dangerous. By your same analogy, you are advocating that if you have extra money in your car's budget it's better to spend it on on more fuel, even if it goes down the drain rather than give your race car a fresh coat of trendy decoration because decoration is "not important to the function of the car", totally disregarding the psychological and social factors of it.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »
Sorry, here is the response
A race car will run on gas from the convenient store, but not very well. Runs much better on racing fuel. Why fill your extra calories with junk when good, nutritionally dense food is available? Maybe a bit here and there, but not on a daily basis.
I will use your same analogy. What happens when the race car's fuel tank is full of racing fuel? Any extra racing fuel is wasted.
For that analogy to hold, someone would have to be running a smaller-than-optimal deficit.
IE, over-eating for their goals.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »
Sorry, here is the response
A race car will run on gas from the convenient store, but not very well. Runs much better on racing fuel. Why fill your extra calories with junk when good, nutritionally dense food is available? Maybe a bit here and there, but not on a daily basis.
I will use your same analogy. What happens when the race car's fuel tank is full of racing fuel? Any extra racing fuel is wasted.
For that analogy to hold, someone would have to be running a smaller-than-optimal deficit.
IE, over-eating for their goals.
Not necessarily. 2 cups of spinach will provide you with more than half of your daily needs of 90% of vitamins and minerals for 80 calories.0 -
I wonder if packer john is somebody's Silence Dogwood.0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »
Sorry, here is the response
A race car will run on gas from the convenient store, but not very well. Runs much better on racing fuel. Why fill your extra calories with junk when good, nutritionally dense food is available? Maybe a bit here and there, but not on a daily basis.
I will use your same analogy. What happens when the race car's fuel tank is full of racing fuel? Any extra racing fuel is wasted.
For that analogy to hold, someone would have to be running a smaller-than-optimal deficit.
IE, over-eating for their goals.
Not necessarily. 2 cups of spinach will provide you with more than half of your daily needs of 90% of vitamins and minerals for 80 calories.
That doesn't contradict my earlier statement in any way.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »What are you calling "requirements"? The CDC says men should get 56g of protein a day
http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html
I think if you talk to most people that lift weights or train people that lift they will recommend more protein. I would suggest that eating protein with the "extra" calories would make you healthier than filling in the calories with Ding Dongs, Cheetos, etc.
You're making the assumption that macro and micro goals aren't met first, but that isn't what's being advocated. What is being said is once your macro and micro goals are met then eat ice cream, Oreos, etc.
Edited to fix quotes as best I can.
Say you meet your macro and micro goals daily and have 500 calories "left over". If you go to a nutrition expert and ask them the best way to fill in the additional calories do you think they will say Ding Dongs, ice cream, etc on a daily basis. Or do you think they will say eat a bit more of the nutritionally dense foods you are eating and occasionally have a treat?
It's already been said, but you don't get extra credit in nutrition. You can end up with really expensive pee, though.
I can't imagine trying to choke down 500 or more calories of broccoli instead of some ice cream or cookies after macros and micros are met, so I don't. And, mind-blowingly, sometimes I use donuts or ice cream to hit my fat macro if that's what I'm low on for the day.
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Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »What are you calling "requirements"? The CDC says men should get 56g of protein a day
http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html
I think if you talk to most people that lift weights or train people that lift they will recommend more protein. I would suggest that eating protein with the "extra" calories would make you healthier than filling in the calories with Ding Dongs, Cheetos, etc.
You're making the assumption that macro and micro goals aren't met first, but that isn't what's being advocated. What is being said is once your macro and micro goals are met then eat ice cream, Oreos, etc.
Edited to fix quotes as best I can.
Say you meet your macro and micro goals daily and have 500 calories "left over". If you go to a nutrition expert and ask them the best way to fill in the additional calories do you think they will say Ding Dongs, ice cream, etc on a daily basis. Or do you think they will say eat a bit more of the nutritionally dense foods you are eating and occasionally have a treat?
It's already been said, but you don't get extra credit in nutrition. You can end up with really expensive pee, though.
I can't imagine trying to choke down 500 or more calories of broccoli instead of some ice cream or cookies after macros and micros are met, so I don't. And, mind-blowingly, sometimes I use donuts or ice cream to hit my fat macro if that's what I'm low on for the day.
In extreme cases you don't just get expensive pee. An extreme case that likes to get mentioned in a different place would be of some idiot who took way too much micronutrient supplements and ended up with kidney failure because of it.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »What are you calling "requirements"? The CDC says men should get 56g of protein a day
http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html
I think if you talk to most people that lift weights or train people that lift they will recommend more protein. I would suggest that eating protein with the "extra" calories would make you healthier than filling in the calories with Ding Dongs, Cheetos, etc.
You're making the assumption that macro and micro goals aren't met first, but that isn't what's being advocated. What is being said is once your macro and micro goals are met then eat ice cream, Oreos, etc.
Edited to fix quotes as best I can.
Say you meet your macro and micro goals daily and have 500 calories "left over". If you go to a nutrition expert and ask them the best way to fill in the additional calories do you think they will say Ding Dongs, ice cream, etc on a daily basis. Or do you think they will say eat a bit more of the nutritionally dense foods you are eating and occasionally have a treat?
It's already been said, but you don't get extra credit in nutrition. You can end up with really expensive pee, though.
I can't imagine trying to choke down 500 or more calories of broccoli instead of some ice cream or cookies after macros and micros are met, so I don't. And, mind-blowingly, sometimes I use donuts or ice cream to hit my fat macro if that's what I'm low on for the day.
In extreme cases you don't just get expensive pee. An extreme case that likes to get mentioned in a different place would be of some idiot who took way too much micronutrient supplements and ended up with kidney failure because of it.
Also true. It's almost like context and dosage matters or something.
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Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Acknowledge that nutritionally sparse foods are crappy for you and if they are used, they should be seldom used, not as a way to fill in daily calorie needs.
Why are they crappy for me? I simply think that's false. Should they replace foods that will fulfill your nutritional needs? Of course not, but no one is saying otherwise. Most people have room in their diets for both more and less nutritionally dense foods, however, and diversity is also important. (Cheese isn't that nutritionally dense, but having some fat and protein isn't a bad thing and many find it filling. I just find it really tasty. So I eat it, although somewhat sparingly.)
Sorry, here is the response
A race car will run on gas from the convenient store, but not very well. Runs much better on racing fuel. Why fill your extra calories with junk when good, nutritionally dense food is available? Maybe a bit here and there, but not on a daily basis.
If eat a well rounded diet that allows you to meet your nutritional requirements and have some discretionary calories left do you get extra credit for going above and beyond your requirements? Do you get extra healthy? If you fill those discretionary calories with something different did that now undo the nutritional markers you hit for for the day?
What are you calling "requirements"? The CDC says men should get 56g of protein a day
http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html
I think if you talk to most people that lift weights or train people that lift they will recommend more protein. I would suggest that eating protein with the "extra" calories would make you healthier than filling in the calories with Ding Dongs, Cheetos, etc.
I'm 125 and regularly get around or more than 125 grams of protein. I don't have a problem with that, but the idea that that's not enough so that I perhaps should avoid a piece of pizza or 2 (by the way, there are pizzas that aren't from chain restaurants before you make assumptions about the ingredients in it or how many calories it has or whatever you might assume based on some particular pizza) or, again, my apple pie in favor of some chicken breast seems silly.
And for that matter I can get more protein per gram from skinless, boneless chicken breast than the roasted, skin-on whole chicken I prefer. Does that make the latter "crap" because more calories and less of certain kinds of nutrients than the alternatives? This seems pretty arbitrary. So long as I have room without sacrificing any needed nutrients or gaining weight when I shouldn't, and so long as it's not actively harming my health for some reason (some ingredient that I have good reason to think is bad for humans or for me specifically), why conclude it's "bad" or "bad for me." Again, that something would be bad in larger quantities doesn't make it "bad" in general. Cheese would be terrible as a staple of one's diet, IMO, but I don't think it's bad at all in reasonable quantities (which will depend on the person and the overall diet).0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »What are you calling "requirements"? The CDC says men should get 56g of protein a day
http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html
I think if you talk to most people that lift weights or train people that lift they will recommend more protein. I would suggest that eating protein with the "extra" calories would make you healthier than filling in the calories with Ding Dongs, Cheetos, etc.
You're making the assumption that macro and micro goals aren't met first, but that isn't what's being advocated. What is being said is once your macro and micro goals are met then eat ice cream, Oreos, etc.
Edited to fix quotes as best I can.
Say you meet your macro and micro goals daily and have 500 calories "left over". If you go to a nutrition expert and ask them the best way to fill in the additional calories do you think they will say Ding Dongs, ice cream, etc on a daily basis. Or do you think they will say eat a bit more of the nutritionally dense foods you are eating and occasionally have a treat?
It's already been said, but you don't get extra credit in nutrition. You can end up with really expensive pee, though.
I can't imagine trying to choke down 500 or more calories of broccoli instead of some ice cream or cookies after macros and micros are met, so I don't. And, mind-blowingly, sometimes I use donuts or ice cream to hit my fat macro if that's what I'm low on for the day.
Not according to this peer reviewed article on WedMD. Article is specifically talking about gaining weight, but it is telling you how to "fill in" to get to your calorie goal:
Calories Count, But So Do Nutrients
Focus on healthy foods to gain weight, because even though you have more leeway with calories, good nutrition still rules.
"Weight gain requires eating calorie-rich but also nutrient-rich foods -- not just high-calorie foods with lots of fat, sugar, or empty calories," says Alice Bender, RD, nutrition communications manager for the American Institute for Cancer Research.
The goal is to choose foods that are packed with vitamins, minerals, nutrients, and calories so each bite is loaded with good nutrition.
"Start with nutritious foods and then wherever you can, enrich the foods with additional ingredients like yogurt, fruit, nuts, and healthy fats," Escott-Stump says.
Complete article:
http://www.webmd.com/diet/how-to-gain-weight
Again, an occasional few cookies, etc is fine, you shouldn't be using calorie dense nutrient light foods to fill a surplus calorie need after getting your macros.
Filling surplus calories with nutritionally poor foods on a regular basis may not impact you weight, but can have negative impacts on blood pressure, cholesterol, etc.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »What are you calling "requirements"? The CDC says men should get 56g of protein a day
http://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/everyone/basics/protein.html
I think if you talk to most people that lift weights or train people that lift they will recommend more protein. I would suggest that eating protein with the "extra" calories would make you healthier than filling in the calories with Ding Dongs, Cheetos, etc.
You're making the assumption that macro and micro goals aren't met first, but that isn't what's being advocated. What is being said is once your macro and micro goals are met then eat ice cream, Oreos, etc.
Edited to fix quotes as best I can.
Say you meet your macro and micro goals daily and have 500 calories "left over". If you go to a nutrition expert and ask them the best way to fill in the additional calories do you think they will say Ding Dongs, ice cream, etc on a daily basis. Or do you think they will say eat a bit more of the nutritionally dense foods you are eating and occasionally have a treat?
It's already been said, but you don't get extra credit in nutrition. You can end up with really expensive pee, though.
I can't imagine trying to choke down 500 or more calories of broccoli instead of some ice cream or cookies after macros and micros are met, so I don't. And, mind-blowingly, sometimes I use donuts or ice cream to hit my fat macro if that's what I'm low on for the day.
Not according to this peer reviewed article on WedMD. Article is specifically talking about gaining weight, but it is telling you how to "fill in" to get to your calorie goal:
Calories Count, But So Do Nutrients
Focus on healthy foods to gain weight, because even though you have more leeway with calories, good nutrition still rules.
"Weight gain requires eating calorie-rich but also nutrient-rich foods -- not just high-calorie foods with lots of fat, sugar, or empty calories," says Alice Bender, RD, nutrition communications manager for the American Institute for Cancer Research.
The goal is to choose foods that are packed with vitamins, minerals, nutrients, and calories so each bite is loaded with good nutrition.
"Start with nutritious foods and then wherever you can, enrich the foods with additional ingredients like yogurt, fruit, nuts, and healthy fats," Escott-Stump says.
Complete article:
http://www.webmd.com/diet/how-to-gain-weight
Again, an occasional few cookies, etc is fine, you shouldn't be using calorie dense nutrient light foods to fill a surplus calorie need after getting your macros.
Filling surplus calories with nutritionally poor foods on a regular basis may not impact you weight, but can have negative impacts on blood pressure, cholesterol, etc.
"Not just" indicates that they are not advocating those who are trying to gain weight to eat solely those things, but instead focus on... wait, you guessed it... hitting their macro and micro goals for the day and then eating whatever. I'm sure it's very easy to be tempted to hear the words "bulk" or "gaining weight" and assume you can eat whatever you want, but this RD is saying no, eat your fruits and vegetables, too.
I'm not sure how this is saying anything different and in seriousness, have you ever done enough exercise where you end up with 1,000+ extra calories and tried to fill that with micro-nutrient dense foods? This is how we get the people who cannot eat 1,200 calories asking what they should do because you feel full.
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