Alternative to weight training for muscle maintenance?
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amusedmonkey wrote: »I do simple yoga only very (very) occasionally (did I mention only occasionally). But I lift weights regularly. With that aside . . .
I don't think anyone is arguing that progressive resistance training requires using weights, or am I wrong?
The question you all seem to batting back and forth is how much this form of yoga is capable of producing the same stimuli as a weight-based progressive resistance training program. I don't know the answer to this (but am mildly curious) because I don't know this specific yoga program, don't know how much the resistance comes in the form of moving weight, holding under tension, yada, yada, yada.
But most of my weight-lifting compadres have a very healthy respect for bodyweight exercises, right? And surely there are bodyweight routines that can (1) help retain lean mass (as OP wants) and (2) even add muscle mass under the right circumstances. Not sure where the disagreement is without more specific details about why this particular form of yoga might be / might not be an effective form of resistance training.
The answer to your question is that it doesn't produce the same exact stimuli as weight lifting (and they were actually arguing that yoga is not progressive resistance training because it does not involve increased weight). That particular type of yoga usually focuses more on isometric strength so although it does have a muscle reserving and strength increasing effect it does not produce as much size.
I can venture and say that the disagreement may have roots in the fact that yoga is generally seen as a flexibility/stability exercise but the strength aspect of it is rarely talked about.
Thank you!ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote:I'm curious too, as I have always read that one can retain lean mass and possibly even add some with body weight as long as there is progressive overload.
I don't think there's any doubt at all about that. I think it's harder to track truly progressive overload (especially if your mass is changing over time, up or down), and one might top out fairly quickly depending on one's strength level at program beginning (whereas with weight you can always add it to the bar). But I think it unquestionable that one can do it.
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My point exactly-he's lifting something with weight. Now, if he increases that weight each week, or whatever, it will be progressive resistance training.stevencloser wrote: »He's lifting up those 10 kg but they're at the end of a stick. Lifting it like that is exponentially harder than just lifting the 10 kg straight up. Even though it's both the same weight (minus the stick).
I don't see how yoga fits into that category.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Lol. Yea okay. You keep telling yourself that. And to say that yoga is weight training that's just absurd.
Ha ha ha – I must say, that's a typical comment from someone whose knowledge of yoga is limited to some imagined stereotype of ladies lying on the floor or chanting 'ohm'. (:-)
Ashtanga yoga is similar in ways to calisthenics or gymnastics training – it builds core strength, functional strength and power using the bodyweight as resistance, and this is an example of the kind of physique it can build when one has worked up to the advanced poses:
(These photos aren't of me, obviously, that is Kino MacGregor.)
I am not saying that is not difficult..but that does not make it the same as lifting progressively heavier things. Your body weight is your body weight and once you adjust to putting it in different poses you have maxed out any benefit that you were getting.
In a progressive lifting routine you can continually add weight so, in essence, you never max out...
That's where goals come in play. For some people they just want to be strong enough to do certain things (advanced poses in this case - which takes years), others are happy to maintain their current muscle mass while others just want to look good. Even progressive lifting hits a wall after a long while because the human body has physical limits. Granted it's does build much more lifting strength than body weight training (which builds greater functional strength and balance), but lifting strength is not everyone's goal and that's alright.
you kind of just moved the goal posts.
You tried to say that yoga = progressive overload, and now you are saying it depends on goals..
I agree that it depends on goals..
but you will have a hard time convincing me that yoga = progressive lifting...
That's not really what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that there are different ways to preserve and strengthen muscles with progressive muscle adaptation. The way a person chooses depends on their goals. Yoga is not lifting, no. I never said that. What I said is that some kinds of yoga can be a strength and resistance exercise. Strength training is not limited to conventional weight lifting.
I believe you said it's progressive resistance training, which implies that there is an increase in "resistance". I don't do yoga because it hurts my body, but I have no doubt it has many benefits. It just doesn't seem to fit into progressive resistance training because there is no increase in body weight.
In body weight as a whole no, but in the amount of resistance placed on a muscle group by adopting a pose that places more of the body weight on the said muscle group. Look at the crow pose progression for example:
In the first picture both the arms and the legs are sharing the body weight load, you can see how the load is gradually (progressively) switched to the arms and more core strength is being created (progressively) in every step because the amount of weight the core has to lift increases.
ummm you are still lifting the same weight, which is the persons body weight…..
Spot on.
I say this because unless the person is gaining weight, thus adding more weight to lift, then it can't be progressive resistance training. However, it is definitely some kind of training that is beneficial.
You build muscle with resistance training, and even then it's not easy at all.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »I do simple yoga only very (very) occasionally (did I mention only occasionally). But I lift weights regularly. With that aside . . .
I don't think anyone is arguing that progressive resistance training requires using weights, or am I wrong?
The question you all seem to batting back and forth is how much this form of yoga is capable of producing the same stimuli as a weight-based progressive resistance training program. I don't know the answer to this (but am mildly curious) because I don't know this specific yoga program, don't know how much the resistance comes in the form of moving weight, holding under tension, yada, yada, yada.
But most of my weight-lifting compadres have a very healthy respect for bodyweight exercises, right? And surely there are bodyweight routines that can (1) help retain lean mass (as OP wants) and (2) even add muscle mass under the right circumstances. Not sure where the disagreement is without more specific details about why this particular form of yoga might be / might not be an effective form of resistance training.
The answer to your question is that it doesn't produce the same exact stimuli as weight lifting (and they were actually arguing that yoga is not progressive resistance training because it does not involve increased weight). That particular type of yoga usually focuses more on isometric strength so although it does have a muscle reserving/increasing and strength increasing effect it does not produce as much size.
I can venture and say that the disagreement may have roots in the fact that yoga is generally seen as a flexibility/stability exercise but the strength aspect of it is rarely talked about.
Yoga indeed does make a person flexible, and from the picture I've seen here there are so very interesting poses.
I think isometric is a good characterization of yoga. My hat is off to anyone who does yoga.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Lol. Yea okay. You keep telling yourself that. And to say that yoga is weight training that's just absurd.
Ha ha ha – I must say, that's a typical comment from someone whose knowledge of yoga is limited to some imagined stereotype of ladies lying on the floor or chanting 'ohm'. (:-)
Ashtanga yoga is similar in ways to calisthenics or gymnastics training – it builds core strength, functional strength and power using the bodyweight as resistance, and this is an example of the kind of physique it can build when one has worked up to the advanced poses:
(These photos aren't of me, obviously, that is Kino MacGregor.)
I am not saying that is not difficult..but that does not make it the same as lifting progressively heavier things. Your body weight is your body weight and once you adjust to putting it in different poses you have maxed out any benefit that you were getting.
In a progressive lifting routine you can continually add weight so, in essence, you never max out...
That's where goals come in play. For some people they just want to be strong enough to do certain things (advanced poses in this case - which takes years), others are happy to maintain their current muscle mass while others just want to look good. Even progressive lifting hits a wall after a long while because the human body has physical limits. Granted it's does build much more lifting strength than body weight training (which builds greater functional strength and balance), but lifting strength is not everyone's goal and that's alright.
you kind of just moved the goal posts.
You tried to say that yoga = progressive overload, and now you are saying it depends on goals..
I agree that it depends on goals..
but you will have a hard time convincing me that yoga = progressive lifting...
That's not really what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that there are different ways to preserve and strengthen muscles with progressive muscle adaptation. The way a person chooses depends on their goals. Yoga is not lifting, no. I never said that. What I said is that some kinds of yoga can be a strength and resistance exercise. Strength training is not limited to conventional weight lifting.
I believe you said it's progressive resistance training, which implies that there is an increase in "resistance". I don't do yoga because it hurts my body, but I have no doubt it has many benefits. It just doesn't seem to fit into progressive resistance training because there is no increase in body weight.
In body weight as a whole no, but in the amount of resistance placed on a muscle group by adopting a pose that places more of the body weight on the said muscle group. Look at the crow pose progression for example:
In the first picture both the arms and the legs are sharing the body weight load, you can see how the load is gradually (progressively) switched to the arms and more core strength is being created (progressively) in every step because the amount of weight the core has to lift increases.
ummm you are still lifting the same weight, which is the persons body weight…..
Spot on.
I say this because unless the person is gaining weight, thus adding more weight to lift, then it can't be progressive resistance training. However, it is definitely some kind of training that is beneficial.
You build muscle with resistance training, and even then it's not easy at all.
It's basic physics people! Weight distribution and center of gravity change the amount of force (resistance) which can be increased progressively by manipulating these factors... I give up and leave you with these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0PNuMyIsDk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlYEi0PgG1g 0 -
My point exactly-he's lifting something with weight. Now, if he increases that weight each week, or whatever, it will be progressive resistance training.stevencloser wrote: »He's lifting up those 10 kg but they're at the end of a stick. Lifting it like that is exponentially harder than just lifting the 10 kg straight up. Even though it's both the same weight (minus the stick).
I don't see how yoga fits into that category.
It's still AS IF you increased the weight. Lifting the 10 kg at the end of the stick is as hard as, say lifting 40 straight up. So if you go from lifting 10 kg straight up to lifting it at the end of a stick, that's progressive in the amount of force you have to exert to lift it up, equal to increasing the weight.0 -
For the last 3 years all my strength/muscle development was done through attending different group fitness classes. I've done Body Pump (the only brand) and a variety of Shred, Power Sculpt, Full Body Workout, etc. classes, gradually increasing the weights I use in each hand from 3lb to 12.5lb (which is the most that most gyms have in their workout studios). I also do a lot of cardio classes because I like them (Zumba, Aqua fit, Kickboxing, Groove). And I do ballet and other dance classes for flexibility.
I've had good results from this pursuit and highly recommend it as a "painless" way of getting in shape. lol I see many people stop with light weights (2 - 5lb) and would love to tell them, that body builders use low weights and high reps to bulk up, contrary to what they think (that they're going to get bulky)
I have good strength and definition from this approach and achieved it gradually throughout my weightloss and then maintenance (I don't care that people say you can't do this).0
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