Do you view your old eating habits as a personal failing?

Lourdesong

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Lourdesong wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Lourdesong wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

pavingnewpaths wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Lourdesong wrote: »

I guess I was using a definition of failure that had to with what I feel was a lack of character. And I personally would put "Not caring" in that "lack of character" camp.

I wouldn't. (I'd consider it neutral.)

Disregarding circumstances out of your control (health issues and such), why would you say it's neutral?

I wouldn't particularly use the term "character" just because it's a bit vague. But it certainly shows a lack of self-discipline and a need for instant gratification, along with many other things. All of which are negative qualities, in my own opinion.

Everyone has a lack of self-discipline, etc., about some things, first of all.

I see it as a matter of priorities. That I currently prioritize my weight and fitness and all that is great, and pleasurable for me, but if it wasn't on balance worth it to me, why would that make me a person with less character than the alternative.

I spend a lot of time reading good books, because that's something I prioritize (although I've done it less since getting obsessed with fitness). If someone else doesn't find the enjoyment I do in this and prefers to spend the same time doing something else (including, say, watching reality TV), does that make that person someone with less character? Or just someone with different interests and priorities?

There are all kinds of good reasons (and not so good) people may not bother to focus on their weight, but trying to make it into some kind of moral issue seems wrong to me. It's reasonably hard to even sort out how much is conscious and how much isn't.

I feel like you didn't answer his question. And I don't really get your analogy about books vs. reality tv.

An analogy that makes more sense to me would be someone not prioritizing paying their bills because they'd rather read books or watch reality tv than deal with the headache of their finances. If someone thought that paying their bills (i.e. being responsible) was less of a priority than the fun of books and television, that seems like a negative quality to me.

You are assuming that someone has an affirmative responsibility to maintain a particular weight, and if so then they are failing to meet that responsibility if they become overweight.

They may be skirting their responsibility to maintain, not a weight that I or the BMI says they should be, but the weight they would be happy with being, yes. In other words, choosing overeating and weight gain instead of the weight/size (whatever it is) they want, all because they like pizza and lots of it...or whatever.

Wait, aren't we talking about people who aren't bothered about being overweight? People who simply don't care or, given a choice between losing weight and having to restrict their eating, don't care that much?

I wasn't talking about people who aren't bothered by being overweight. Perhaps that's why there is some confusion here, and that could be on me, not sure. I was taking an attitude of "not caring" (about overeating and the consequences of it, in particular) as something more like a "screw it" mentality.

I wasn't taking "not caring" as "I don't care that I'm overweight according to BMI, or I don't care that I haven't lost some vanity pounds, I'm happy the weight I am."

I understood this thread to be about overeating, portion sizes, etc. Though body size is related (mainly in outcome), it's eating behaviors and mentalities around it that I thought we were discussing.

For example, until my mid-20s I was 125-130. In my mind that was non-ideal--I thought 115 would be much better--but I didn't really know how to lose weight and whenever I thought about learning what to do or doing one of those diets you see or having to count calories (pre fun computer apps) it seemed burdensome and unpleasant, whereas I knew I could maintain a weight I thought was okay (though not ideal) and eat whatever I wanted.

I decided (consciously and not) that I'd rather eat whatever I wanted.

I don't see that as a violation of some responsibility, I see it as making a reasonable choice about priorities.

Later, I gained a bunch of weight through some careless eating and becoming less active (and I'm most critical of myself for the less active bit, but mostly I think I was kind of clueless). After I reached 150 I stopped weighing myself and was somewhat in denial about just how heavy I was until I saw a photo at 180 and flipped out and decided to lose the weight. At that point I cared.

After maintaining that loss for some years I went through stuff (like everyone, of course) and for me that meant that maintaining my loss wasn't a priority and I fell back into some bad habits and, especially, was not active. Imagining myself in that situation now, I think there were more effective ways I could have dealt and I wish I'd done certain things earlier in life (like getting some therapy), but I just don't feel like there was a significant moral component to gaining weight or not eating at my maintenance calorie level (or not counting calories or figuring out how to cut back once I knew I was losing). For me, during that period of my life, I didn't care enough about not being overweight. I cared about not drinking (and for me that meant I had somewhat limited will power in other areas of life) and I was incredibly stressed at work (which yes didn't prevent me from eating well, but it used up emotional energy that I later spent on getting back into a more fit lifestyle when I was less stressed). Would it have been better if I'd been someone capable of doing all these things at once? Sure, probably, but there are plenty of things I've done that others haven't--people are different and have different strengths and weaknesses and for me I was doing my best at that time and I just don't think the weight gain was that big a deal. (And maybe if I did I'd not have gained, who knows.)

Anyway, I eventually cared again, or felt more able to focus on other things, so I lost the weight.

In the overall list of things I've done that I'm ashamed of and things I've done that I'm proud of, getting fat and getting thin (well, average) are both pretty neutral. Getting fit and accomplishing certain athletic goals are things I feel more proud of, I suppose.

Right, let's say you're happy at 165, then. If you choose again and again to overeat knowing full well that this will result in weight gain, and continue to do it anyway even if it means you will balloon well beyond 165 - the weight you say you're happy being - are you not making an irresponsible trade off and cheating yourself for what? To be unrestrained around pizza or whatever foods you love?

The person is deciding whether the trade off is worth it to them. My premise was someone who chose to maintain at 165, because she could eat more or could maintain without worrying about it, vs. getting to a non-overweight weight.

If she chooses to allow herself to gain, presumably she either doesn't care that much vs. the other things which would have to change (and so the question becomes why should she?), OR she doesn't perceive that she's making a choice (which I think is common--people feel powerless when they are not all the time, but belief matters to action).

I think people who continue to gain at the expense of their health and say it doesn't matter, they don't care about all the things they are missing out, on are terribly sad. But at that point I don't think it's a failure of responsibility, I think they are stuck and need to figure out that they have options.

I haven't set any standard for anyone else. I failed to meet my own standard I set for myself, because pizza is delicious and whole pizzas are tastier than 2-3 slices, and all that. I cheated myself by making irresponsible choices. Anyone else's standard they have for themselves is indeed their business, I haven't dictated anyone's standard. What I have done is talked about how we operate to meet or fail to meet our standards.

Then we are talking past each other. I'm not questioning what you say about yourself--that's your business. I just wouldn't apply that to everyone else who happens to be overweight and say that they failed to meet some responsibility or standard (as I understood the post I replied to above to be saying).

Yes, I think we have been talking past each other, but it has been interesting discussion nonetheless. Regardless, I think that we talking past each other is cemented here, because you're perceiving me to be talking about overweight bodies (overweight according to who?) when what I'm talking about is overeating (the amount of which varies by individual, but the consequences are the same if done consistently enough).

Mr_Knight

The thread started out asking how we all view our own old habits. It's ended up as a JudgementFest on other people's habits.

Lourdesong

Mr_Knight wrote: »

The thread started out asking how we all view our own old habits. It's ended up as a JudgementFest on other people's habits.

The habit of overeating?

DedRepublic

zyxst wrote: »

BlackScorpio91 wrote: »

DedRepublic wrote: »

You just have to decide what you want more....brownies...or weight loss. Or count the calories in brownies and stay at a deficit.

My advice would be to have a cheat meal (NOT DAY) once a week. And on this meal add brownies. For me...Saturday night is cheat meal...usually family date night and date night with wifey. We always go out to eat...it is mandatory. On this meal I splurge a little.

This

My Cheat Meal from Saturday. I was down 3 lbs on the week and needed to make up som cals...plus I'm love the Monte Cristo meal so I added it to my usual. See...I splurge sometimes...but once and only once per week...sometimes I dream about this meal during the week especially if I'm low carbing it...makes it that much more satisfying. Now on the Cheat Meal it is best to limit it to 45 minutes or less and for me it takes the place of meals 5 and 6 on Saturday...so I do not eat again on the day after this meal. Also best to keep the Cheat Meal to night time as doing in over lunch may lead to more cheating throughout the day. Also this meal is productive for me as I usually workout heavy 2 hours before the meal...so I give those carbs some place to go.



Man, that's evil. Do I even want to know what's on the plate with the fries? Yes, I do and then I can have fantasies about eating it.



A Monte Cristo sandwich. I'd recognize it anywhere. Fried Ham and Cheese sandwich with powdered sugar on top. The restaurant I used to get mine at would serve it with a side of Raspberry jam. Cut a piece, put jam on it and yum!

ETA- it looks like there's jam on that plate too.

The jam is Raspberry Jam!! Yes this is the Monte Crisco and it is the stuff of dreams. I would literally have ribs in my right hand and Monte Crico Sandwich in my left and and just alternate. I'm salivating at the mouth thinking about it now...let the dreams begin...