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Eating Paleo, Dreaming of Grain

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  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
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    BramageOMG wrote: »
    The British Dietetic Association named the paleo diet as among the five worst celebrity-endorsed diets of 2015, saying it risks being "unbalanced, time consuming, [and] socially isolating" and so "a sure-fire way to develop nutrient deficiencies".

    A ranking by U.S. News & World Report, involving a panel of experts, evaluated the diet based on factors including health, weight loss, and ease of following. In 2014, it tied for last place out of 32 with the Dukan Diet.

    And yet a couple I know did the Dukan Diet around ten years ago and lost around 25 pounds each and have maintained their weight loss to this day. Apparently they particularly liked it because it allowed them to eat a lot of smoked salmon.

    And here's the Mayo Clinic's rather neutral assessment of the Paleo Diet:
    There is little clinical research on the benefits of paleo diets. A few clinical trials lasting 12 weeks or less have been conducted with small groups of participants.

    These trials suggest that a paleo diet may provide some moderate benefits when compared with diets of fruits, vegetables, lean meats, whole grains, legumes and low-fat dairy products. These moderate benefits may include:

    More weight loss
    Improved glucose tolerance
    Better blood pressure control
    Better appetite management

    However, longer trials with large groups of people randomly assigned to different diets are needed to understand the long-term, overall health benefits and possible risks of a paleo diet.


    So, basically, the "best" diet is the one you like and can stick to.

    All diets work, that's the reason why they get popular and they all boil down to CICO, but it's the ability to stick too it and Dukan is one of the worst due to it's huge restrictions, but if it works for you then that's all that matters. In the end all diets tend to result in pretty much the same relapse rates, which means about 9 out of 10 people will end up back to square one, or worse, within 2 to 3 years.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
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    ndj1979 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    bbontheb wrote: »
    I haven't read all the pages yet but a lot of people that eliminate items on the paleo diet (dairy, wheat, etc) might be feeling somewhat better because they are eating more low fodmap items in their diet, and less high fodmap items that might make us feel pretty crappy. There's some science behind it too :)

    For people who have issues with those things, yes indeed. It doesn't apply to everyone though :)

    You are correct. But when it applies to people like myself, make some room please. I think that's the issue. Too much CICO, not much about metabolics, macros, good eating habits, and not outrunning a bad diet. Being healthy is two things - diet and exercise. 80% diet + 20% exercise. If you eat like crap, exercise means nothing - maybe if you are young you can get away with it. For us old farts, that's NOT an option. Old guys damage their metabolics enough in their life during their "I can get away with it" phase and denial phase. Once you accept, you realize what you really have to do.

    I love when people say 80% diet and 20% exercise because it means they have no clue what they are talking about and get their information from bumper stickers. And don't start with the old farts garbaage, it's not and excuse for believing in crap science.

    ETA btw you are a year older than me, so when do I have to worry about my metabolism? Next year?

    your metabolism is already dead ….

    OMG you're right! :p
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,413 MFP Moderator
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    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    bbontheb wrote: »
    I haven't read all the pages yet but a lot of people that eliminate items on the paleo diet (dairy, wheat, etc) might be feeling somewhat better because they are eating more low fodmap items in their diet, and less high fodmap items that might make us feel pretty crappy. There's some science behind it too :)

    For people who have issues with those things, yes indeed. It doesn't apply to everyone though :)

    You are correct. But when it applies to people like myself, make some room please. I think that's the issue. Too much CICO, not much about metabolics, macros, good eating habits, and not outrunning a bad diet. Being healthy is two things - diet and exercise. 80% diet + 20% exercise. If you eat like crap, exercise means nothing - maybe if you are young you can get away with it. For us old farts, that's NOT an option. Old guys damage their metabolics enough in their life during their "I can get away with it" phase and denial phase. Once you accept, you realize what you really have to do.

    What does the bold even mean?

    And I don't know if you have ever seen the recommendations around here, but all of the "CICO" or IIFYM people getting getting a diet that is balanced and full of nutrient dense foods. I always laugh because just because we point out that the sugar, regardless of source, is all the same, doesn't mean we don't promote a healthy and sustainable way of eating.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    psulemon wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    bbontheb wrote: »
    I haven't read all the pages yet but a lot of people that eliminate items on the paleo diet (dairy, wheat, etc) might be feeling somewhat better because they are eating more low fodmap items in their diet, and less high fodmap items that might make us feel pretty crappy. There's some science behind it too :)

    For people who have issues with those things, yes indeed. It doesn't apply to everyone though :)

    You are correct. But when it applies to people like myself, make some room please. I think that's the issue. Too much CICO, not much about metabolics, macros, good eating habits, and not outrunning a bad diet. Being healthy is two things - diet and exercise. 80% diet + 20% exercise. If you eat like crap, exercise means nothing - maybe if you are young you can get away with it. For us old farts, that's NOT an option. Old guys damage their metabolics enough in their life during their "I can get away with it" phase and denial phase. Once you accept, you realize what you really have to do.

    What does the bold even mean?

    And I don't know if you have ever seen the recommendations around here, but all of the "CICO" or IIFYM people getting getting a diet that is balanced and full of nutrient dense foods. I always laugh because just because we point out that the sugar, regardless of source, is all the same, doesn't mean we don't promote a healthy and sustainable way of eating.

    I'm always surprised how saying that you don't have to cut out sugar always leads to people arguing "Well if you ate nothing but sugar..." back at you.
  • Sarasmaintaining
    Sarasmaintaining Posts: 1,027 Member
    edited May 2015
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    aggelikik wrote: »
    Maggieba wrote: »
    ...if it doesn't work for you, it's not a sustainable thing. And ultimately, we all need to craft a personalized diet for ourselves that sustains us, body and soul.

    This.

    I think it's all about food that makes you feel good. And what is right for you will be different for others.

    I had a very positive experience with a short term elimination diet. When nursing my second child, it was clear early on that she was sensitive to something in my diet (exorcist vomit). So I cut out the usual suspects: dairy, gluten, and soy. I followed a paleo-esque diet for 30 days, and the baby explosives stopped. I slowly started to add the above foods back in and found that dairy was causing her issues. But as a side effect, I noticed what a difference cutting out dairy made for my digestive system: gone were gas pains and bloating, and for the first time ever I had daily movements. I played around with dairy some more and found I can eat certain types of yogurt and hard cheeses. But ice cream and I are now frenemies: it has to be really good for me to eat it bc I know how I'll feel after.

    So, figure out what works for you. As others have responded, there are plenty of ways you can add more carbs if you need them.

    My daughter is lactose intolerant and she's the same way-yogurt and processed American cheese don't bother her. Ice cream takes her out though :/

    Are you sure she is lactose intolerant and not casein intolerant? Because if it is a casein intolerance, casein breaks down when making yoghurt or cheese, so for mild intolerances, she should be able to eat these products.

    Hmmm, her allergist said lactose intolerant after the scratch test came back negative for a full blown dairy allergy, so I didn't pursue it further. But yeah, it's kind of odd that she can tolerate some dairy products but then others like straight milk or ice cream can send her to the bathroom for hours. I'll have to look into casein intolerance-thanks!
  • Sarasmaintaining
    Sarasmaintaining Posts: 1,027 Member
    Options
    aggelikik wrote: »
    aggelikik wrote: »
    Maggieba wrote: »
    ...if it doesn't work for you, it's not a sustainable thing. And ultimately, we all need to craft a personalized diet for ourselves that sustains us, body and soul.

    This.

    I think it's all about food that makes you feel good. And what is right for you will be different for others.

    I had a very positive experience with a short term elimination diet. When nursing my second child, it was clear early on that she was sensitive to something in my diet (exorcist vomit). So I cut out the usual suspects: dairy, gluten, and soy. I followed a paleo-esque diet for 30 days, and the baby explosives stopped. I slowly started to add the above foods back in and found that dairy was causing her issues. But as a side effect, I noticed what a difference cutting out dairy made for my digestive system: gone were gas pains and bloating, and for the first time ever I had daily movements. I played around with dairy some more and found I can eat certain types of yogurt and hard cheeses. But ice cream and I are now frenemies: it has to be really good for me to eat it bc I know how I'll feel after.

    So, figure out what works for you. As others have responded, there are plenty of ways you can add more carbs if you need them.

    My daughter is lactose intolerant and she's the same way-yogurt and processed American cheese don't bother her. Ice cream takes her out though :/

    Are you sure she is lactose intolerant and not casein intolerant? Because if it is a casein intolerance, casein breaks down when making yoghurt or cheese, so for mild intolerances, she should be able to eat these products.

    are you sure about that statement? if yes, can you please provide a source? thank you.

    I am 100% sure of this because my husband is casein intolerant and two of my kids were born casein intolerant, one outgrew it completely after the first years, the other only partially. At first I also was not aware of casein and lactose intolerance being different, but our pediatrician explained the difference and gave us reading material and instructions. Unfortunately, this all happened several years ago, so I no longer have links to research. But, casein intolerance or other milk protein intolerances are rather common in babies, so a lot of information will come up if you google it in association with babies, elimination diets for breastfeeding mothers or infant formula with hydrolyzed proteins.
    According to our pediatrician, which was verified in practice for us, milk proteins partially break down by the process of fermentation (which occurs when making cheese or yoghurt). So, when a person is not allergic, but only mildly intolerant to milk proteins, it is possible to enjoy these foods without reactions, while milk will cause pains, diarrhea, bloating etc. Protein also breaks down to a lesser extent when cooking milk, so it might be possible to also consume in moderation foods with cooked milk, such as custard or custard-based ice cream.
    In our family, my husband can eat dairy, but not drink milk.
    He can drink small amounts of goat milk but is in pain if he consumes cow milk. One of my kids is at this point fine, but could not tolerate any dairy (except breatmilk) the first years. Then he was gradually able to eat first yoghurt and cheese, then also milk. My other kid, can drink only small amounts of cow milk or ice cream made with raw milk with mild discomfort, but can eat yoghurt without side-effects.

    Wow, you're describing my daughter exactly! She can eat some dairy fine, but then milk and regular ice cream cause her horrible stomach pain (like bent over in agony), uncontrollable bowel movements and when she has a larger quantity of milk/ice cream it can cause throwing up as well. I'll have to do some more research on this, thanks again!
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Options
    psulemon wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    bbontheb wrote: »
    I haven't read all the pages yet but a lot of people that eliminate items on the paleo diet (dairy, wheat, etc) might be feeling somewhat better because they are eating more low fodmap items in their diet, and less high fodmap items that might make us feel pretty crappy. There's some science behind it too :)

    For people who have issues with those things, yes indeed. It doesn't apply to everyone though :)

    You are correct. But when it applies to people like myself, make some room please. I think that's the issue. Too much CICO, not much about metabolics, macros, good eating habits, and not outrunning a bad diet. Being healthy is two things - diet and exercise. 80% diet + 20% exercise. If you eat like crap, exercise means nothing - maybe if you are young you can get away with it. For us old farts, that's NOT an option. Old guys damage their metabolics enough in their life during their "I can get away with it" phase and denial phase. Once you accept, you realize what you really have to do.

    What does the bold even mean?

    And I don't know if you have ever seen the recommendations around here, but all of the "CICO" or IIFYM people getting getting a diet that is balanced and full of nutrient dense foods. I always laugh because just because we point out that the sugar, regardless of source, is all the same, doesn't mean we don't promote a healthy and sustainable way of eating.

    The way people on the fad diets talk you would think those of us on flex and IIFYM are promoting nothing but a junk food/fast food diet. Most of us are on the 80/20 rule (80% nutrient dense, 20% caloric dense) and have just as healthy a diet as anyone else.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Options
    aggelikik wrote: »
    Maggieba wrote: »
    ...if it doesn't work for you, it's not a sustainable thing. And ultimately, we all need to craft a personalized diet for ourselves that sustains us, body and soul.

    This.

    I think it's all about food that makes you feel good. And what is right for you will be different for others.

    I had a very positive experience with a short term elimination diet. When nursing my second child, it was clear early on that she was sensitive to something in my diet (exorcist vomit). So I cut out the usual suspects: dairy, gluten, and soy. I followed a paleo-esque diet for 30 days, and the baby explosives stopped. I slowly started to add the above foods back in and found that dairy was causing her issues. But as a side effect, I noticed what a difference cutting out dairy made for my digestive system: gone were gas pains and bloating, and for the first time ever I had daily movements. I played around with dairy some more and found I can eat certain types of yogurt and hard cheeses. But ice cream and I are now frenemies: it has to be really good for me to eat it bc I know how I'll feel after.

    So, figure out what works for you. As others have responded, there are plenty of ways you can add more carbs if you need them.

    My daughter is lactose intolerant and she's the same way-yogurt and processed American cheese don't bother her. Ice cream takes her out though :/

    Are you sure she is lactose intolerant and not casein intolerant? Because if it is a casein intolerance, casein breaks down when making yoghurt or cheese, so for mild intolerances, she should be able to eat these products.

    Hmmm, her allergist said lactose intolerant after the scratch test came back negative for a full blown dairy allergy, so I didn't pursue it further. But yeah, it's kind of odd that she can tolerate some dairy products but then others like straight milk or ice cream can send her to the bathroom for hours. I'll have to look into casein intolerance-thanks!

    A friend of mine can drink creams but not straight milk. Not sure why that is but some food issues can be rather odd.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,413 MFP Moderator
    Options
    psulemon wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    bbontheb wrote: »
    I haven't read all the pages yet but a lot of people that eliminate items on the paleo diet (dairy, wheat, etc) might be feeling somewhat better because they are eating more low fodmap items in their diet, and less high fodmap items that might make us feel pretty crappy. There's some science behind it too :)

    For people who have issues with those things, yes indeed. It doesn't apply to everyone though :)

    You are correct. But when it applies to people like myself, make some room please. I think that's the issue. Too much CICO, not much about metabolics, macros, good eating habits, and not outrunning a bad diet. Being healthy is two things - diet and exercise. 80% diet + 20% exercise. If you eat like crap, exercise means nothing - maybe if you are young you can get away with it. For us old farts, that's NOT an option. Old guys damage their metabolics enough in their life during their "I can get away with it" phase and denial phase. Once you accept, you realize what you really have to do.

    What does the bold even mean?

    And I don't know if you have ever seen the recommendations around here, but all of the "CICO" or IIFYM people getting getting a diet that is balanced and full of nutrient dense foods. I always laugh because just because we point out that the sugar, regardless of source, is all the same, doesn't mean we don't promote a healthy and sustainable way of eating.

    The way people on the fad diets talk you would think those of us on flex and IIFYM are promoting nothing but a junk food/fast food diet. Most of us are on the 80/20 rule (80% nutrient dense, 20% caloric dense) and have just as healthy a diet as anyone else.

    According to many on this site, all we eat are donuts. Never have they considered looking at any of our diaries and seeing a variety of wholesome foods. Don't get me wrong, I love to cook but ice cream and muffins keep me sane.

  • Chrysalid2014
    Chrysalid2014 Posts: 1,038 Member
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    psulemon wrote: »

    According to many on this site, all we eat are donuts. Never have they considered looking at any of our diaries and seeing a variety of wholesome foods. Don't get me wrong, I love to cook but ice cream and muffins keep me sane.

    Oh, I've done it that way too. And when 'donut hour' finally comes around and you've been thinking about it and watching the clock and digging your fingernails into the sofa all afternoon and finally finally it's time and you've been 'good' so you get your little sugary poison reward and you try to make it last as long as possible but even so it's finished far, far too soon and you lick every crumb and bit of frosting off the wrapper and then you start demonstrating your willpower again, a.k.a. counting down the days until the next one?

    No thanks. I'd rather have none.
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,268 Member
    edited May 2015
    Options
    psulemon wrote: »

    According to many on this site, all we eat are donuts. Never have they considered looking at any of our diaries and seeing a variety of wholesome foods. Don't get me wrong, I love to cook but ice cream and muffins keep me sane.

    Oh, I've done it that way too. And when 'donut hour' finally comes around and you've been thinking about it and watching the clock and digging your fingernails into the sofa all afternoon and finally finally it's time and you've been 'good' so you get your little sugary poison reward and you try to make it last as long as possible but even so it's finished far, far too soon and you lick every crumb and bit of frosting off the wrapper and then you start demonstrating your willpower again, a.k.a. counting down the days until the next one?

    No thanks. I'd rather have none.

    You must be so fun at parties...

    digging fingernails in? sugary poison reward? last as long as possible? lick crumbs?

    are you kidding me? anyone that acts like that needs professional mental health help...

    btw my homemade donuts per MFP recipe builder are 78-100 calories each...so guess what I eat 3 or 4 if I want.

    ETA: I eat chocolate every night and it's nothing like that...I do savour it but eh if I don't get it not a biggy...

    and I think it's time to make some donuts...
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Options
    psulemon wrote: »

    According to many on this site, all we eat are donuts. Never have they considered looking at any of our diaries and seeing a variety of wholesome foods. Don't get me wrong, I love to cook but ice cream and muffins keep me sane.

    Oh, I've done it that way too. And when 'donut hour' finally comes around and you've been thinking about it and watching the clock and digging your fingernails into the sofa all afternoon and finally finally it's time and you've been 'good' so you get your little sugary poison reward and you try to make it last as long as possible but even so it's finished far, far too soon and you lick every crumb and bit of frosting off the wrapper and then you start demonstrating your willpower again, a.k.a. counting down the days until the next one?

    No thanks. I'd rather have none.

    Wow, this is quite a vivid and fevered fantasy.

    What about those of us who just eat a donut sometimes, enjoy it, and go on with our lives?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Options
    And yet a couple I know did the Dukan Diet around ten years ago and lost around 25 pounds each and have maintained their weight loss to this day. Apparently they particularly liked it because it allowed them to eat a lot of smoked salmon.

    This is goofy. I eat lots of smoked (and non smoked, for that matter) salmon. I'm pretty sure the only diet it would be hard to fit into is a vegetarian or vegan one.

    Oh, and a paleo or "clean" (insert eye-roll) diet if one were really hard core, I guess, since usually a little sugar is used in the smoking process and it's processed, by definition.

    My dad used to catch and smoke his own and give me some, but hasn't been lately, so I have to buy it.
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,012 Member
    Options
    psulemon wrote: »

    According to many on this site, all we eat are donuts. Never have they considered looking at any of our diaries and seeing a variety of wholesome foods. Don't get me wrong, I love to cook but ice cream and muffins keep me sane.

    Oh, I've done it that way too. And when 'donut hour' finally comes around and you've been thinking about it and watching the clock and digging your fingernails into the sofa all afternoon and finally finally it's time and you've been 'good' so you get your little sugary poison reward and you try to make it last as long as possible but even so it's finished far, far too soon and you lick every crumb and bit of frosting off the wrapper and then you start demonstrating your willpower again, a.k.a. counting down the days until the next one?

    No thanks. I'd rather have none.

    To be fair, I don't think this is typical of the average person's desire for and reaction to a doughnut. This is some pretty high drama to associate with a treat. I eat all the debil foods on occasion and I can honestly say I have never experienced that kind of emotional stress due to food, period.
  • miriamtob
    miriamtob Posts: 436 Member
    edited May 2015
    Options
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    JordisTSM wrote: »
    @Nony_Mouse thank you for bringing some much needed sense to this thread. It was quite a wild ride until you showed up :smile:

    Aw, thanks :). There were several others who were doing a good job of debunking while us NZers slept though. Also, I can call it work, cos archaeology ;) (which I never get sick of talking about). Who should I send the invoice to do you think?

    Would you say that for the majority of human history, humans have had an intimate understanding of where our food sources come from?
    A quote from a noted evolutionary diet researcher:
    99.99% of our genes were formed before the development of agriculture. -S. Boyd Eaton, M.D., MEDICAL ANTHROPOLOGIST
    Please share your thoughts on this statement.
  • juggernaut1974
    juggernaut1974 Posts: 6,212 Member
    Options
    psulemon wrote: »

    According to many on this site, all we eat are donuts. Never have they considered looking at any of our diaries and seeing a variety of wholesome foods. Don't get me wrong, I love to cook but ice cream and muffins keep me sane.

    Oh, I've done it that way too. And when 'donut hour' finally comes around and you've been thinking about it and watching the clock and digging your fingernails into the sofa all afternoon and finally finally it's time and you've been 'good' so you get your little sugary poison reward and you try to make it last as long as possible but even so it's finished far, far too soon and you lick every crumb and bit of frosting off the wrapper and then you start demonstrating your willpower again, a.k.a. counting down the days until the next one?

    No thanks. I'd rather have none.

    Really wish you'd quit projecting your own insecurities on the rest of the MFP population.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    Options
    psulemon wrote: »

    According to many on this site, all we eat are donuts. Never have they considered looking at any of our diaries and seeing a variety of wholesome foods. Don't get me wrong, I love to cook but ice cream and muffins keep me sane.

    Oh, I've done it that way too. And when 'donut hour' finally comes around and you've been thinking about it and watching the clock and digging your fingernails into the sofa all afternoon and finally finally it's time and you've been 'good' so you get your little sugary poison reward and you try to make it last as long as possible but even so it's finished far, far too soon and you lick every crumb and bit of frosting off the wrapper and then you start demonstrating your willpower again, a.k.a. counting down the days until the next one?

    No thanks. I'd rather have none.

    LOL

    Maybe if you made room for these thing in your day then you would not be craving them so badly, have you ever considered that???

    Why do I have this image of someone sitting on a couch nibbling on a donut, putting it back down, looking at it, nibbling some more.....total ridiculous...

    if you want a donut, eat a donut ...you don't have to wait for "donut time"....geez
  • LBuehrle8
    LBuehrle8 Posts: 4,044 Member
    Options
    psulemon wrote: »

    According to many on this site, all we eat are donuts. Never have they considered looking at any of our diaries and seeing a variety of wholesome foods. Don't get me wrong, I love to cook but ice cream and muffins keep me sane.

    Oh, I've done it that way too. And when 'donut hour' finally comes around and you've been thinking about it and watching the clock and digging your fingernails into the sofa all afternoon and finally finally it's time and you've been 'good' so you get your little sugary poison reward and you try to make it last as long as possible but even so it's finished far, far too soon and you lick every crumb and bit of frosting off the wrapper and then you start demonstrating your willpower again, a.k.a. counting down the days until the next one?

    No thanks. I'd rather have none.

    This seems really extreme.
  • zyxst
    zyxst Posts: 9,145 Member
    Options
    psulemon wrote: »

    According to many on this site, all we eat are donuts. Never have they considered looking at any of our diaries and seeing a variety of wholesome foods. Don't get me wrong, I love to cook but ice cream and muffins keep me sane.

    Oh, I've done it that way too. And when 'donut hour' finally comes around and you've been thinking about it and watching the clock and digging your fingernails into the sofa all afternoon and finally finally it's time and you've been 'good' so you get your little sugary poison reward and you try to make it last as long as possible but even so it's finished far, far too soon and you lick every crumb and bit of frosting off the wrapper and then you start demonstrating your willpower again, a.k.a. counting down the days until the next one?

    No thanks. I'd rather have none.

    408476393.jpg
    Really projecting there.

    I have foods I really, really look forward to eating, sometimes plan my meals around having that one item, but I've not had the emotions you're describing over a food item.
This discussion has been closed.