Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
Replies
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asflatasapancake wrote: »TFaustino67 wrote: »A lot of good info here and made for some interesting reading but I didn't see anything regarding Body Recomp as it pertains to new lifters vs those who have been lifting for over a couple of years; with 'newbie gains' I can see Body Recomp being quite desirable..but long time lifters? Curiosity peaked
I'm pretty sure it was touched on earlier. Newer lifters are going to see faster and better results than someone with years of experience. That would also depend on the type and quality of programming you followed as well as the actual effort put into it. Someone who has been screwing around in the gym for 5 years could make gains on an appropriate program with actual effort. It would also depend on what body fat percentage the person attempts to recomp at.
I would agree with this. I was jerkin' around in the gym for a few months, loosely following a program that I did in college. When I went to a regimented, structured program, the gains certainly came quicker.
I lifted seriously for a while before following a program. There was a significant difference. Effort was the same, but following a well built program made the gains a bit faster.
@usmcmp - I'm looking for a good program. I weight train 3 times a week but not following a program. I'm not wild about Strong Lifts 5 x 5.
My goal is to get definition. Can you please direct me?
Please advice.
Thanks so much.
Check out the free programs on Bodybuilding.com, they come with videos for the exercises. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/find-a-plan.html
New Rules of Lifting for Women is another great place to start. They teach you a lot.
Thanks so much0 -
Runner475, I do the following:
Mon: Chest, Biceps, Abs
Wed: Shoulders, Back, Triceps, Abs
Fri: Legs/Glutes, Abes
Do 4 sets of 4 to 6 reps as heavy as I can w/good form.
Follow up each workout w/abt 15 - 20 min of cardio (w/at least one session being HIIT).
I'm slowly starting to see results (I can lift heavier weights); I'm older so the muscle gains will probably take a little long.
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griffinca2 wrote: »Runner475, I do the following:
Mon: Chest, Biceps, Abs
Wed: Shoulders, Back, Triceps, Abs
Fri: Legs/Glutes, Abes
Do 4 sets of 4 to 6 reps as heavy as I can w/good form.
Follow up each workout w/abt 15 - 20 min of cardio (w/at least one session being HIIT).
I'm slowly starting to see results (I can lift heavier weights); I'm older so the muscle gains will probably take a little long.
Thanks so much.
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Anytime; we're all here to support one another! 0
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@TigerNY128 Start lifting now and up your calories. At 5'7" and 134, you are pretty light and may find that you actually don't want to lose 10 more pounds once you start seeing things tighten up. After trying to lose those "last ten" for several years, I am having the bizarre experience of staying the same weight while my body gets better and smaller. Letting go of the weight goal is a really big mental adjustment, but I suggest you take photos and measurements and give it a shot. IMHO, the thrill of seeing the weight on the barbell go up is more fun than seeing the scale go down! 4
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CJMQ, Yep!! Finally can do bi curls w/a 15 lb DB & curls w/a 30 lb BB along w/50 lb BBs for the deadlift and BB row--progress. Trick is to try and do exercises w/next weight up (even if it's only one or two reps). 0
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griffinca2 wrote: »Runner475, I do the following:
Mon: Chest, Biceps, Abs
Wed: Shoulders, Back, Triceps, Abs
Fri: Legs/Glutes, Abes
Do 4 sets of 4 to 6 reps as heavy as I can w/good form.
Follow up each workout w/abt 15 - 20 min of cardio (w/at least one session being HIIT).
I'm slowly starting to see results (I can lift heavier weights); I'm older so the muscle gains will probably take a little long.
Thanks so much.
Just a recommendation.
That type of program with basically 1 body part a week is usually for advanced lifters who are pretty maxed out on improvements - they are slow and far between for them, so they require this kind of concentration.
If just starting out, meaning under a year, you'll get much more bang for you time-buck by doing each body part 3 x weekly. That program for a beginner will have much slower results from it.
It's been a fad lately to spread lifting out like that, with no good reason, and much research showing it's not nearly as beneficial.
So basically full-body 3 x weekly if you have 3 days with longish time. Compound moves that engage many muscles at once.
Like don't waste limited workout time on tricep kickbacks when bench press, shoulder press, incline, ect all work the tricep already. If time at end, sure, throw it in.
If you have 6 days weekly and shortish time, then a 2-day split of either upper/lower body or push / pull routines, done 3 x weekly, would hit the same goal.
Volume. Taken care of by frequency and duration.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Instructions.html1 -
I am also Doing this too , the one muscle group each day , well I'm starting on Monday surely you will still see a difference even if you are a beginner at lifting ?0
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Beginning lifters will get more "bang for your buck" doing a full-body routine 3x a week.I am also Doing this too , the one muscle group each day , well I'm starting on Monday surely you will still see a difference even if you are a beginner at lifting ?
Edit: Didn't read @heybales post before replying so I'm just repeating what's been said with much better reasoning and explanation.
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@TigerNY128 Start lifting now and up your calories. At 5'7" and 134, you are pretty light and may find that you actually don't want to lose 10 more pounds once you start seeing things tighten up. After trying to lose those "last ten" for several years, I am having the bizarre experience of staying the same weight while my body gets better and smaller. Letting go of the weight goal is a really big mental adjustment, but I suggest you take photos and measurements and give it a shot. IMHO, the thrill of seeing the weight on the barbell go up is more fun than seeing the scale go down!
@CJMQ Thanks for the advice! I bought a scale that measures body fat. While I know it's not completely accurate, my body fat percentage has gone down a small bit in 2 weeks while my weight has stayed the same. And I'm taking measurements. The best part is, I'm really enjoying lifting!!
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_benjammin wrote: »
Beginning lifters will get more "bang for your buck" doing a full-body routine 3x a week.I am also Doing this too , the one muscle group each day , well I'm starting on Monday surely you will still see a difference even if you are a beginner at lifting ?
Edit: Didn't read @heybales post before replying so I'm just repeating what's been said with much better reasoning and explanation.
There are good reasons while these beginner's programs have been developed and proven to be most effective. Only doing one body part a week isn't giving you enough practice on the major lifts and probably isn't building the necessary foundation to build from.
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This is something I have been thinking about for a little while. At some point I am going to have to put on a little weight. I am starting to see a little too much rib and hip bones. I am not quite ready to add weight yet. I would like my legs to lean out a little more. I would love to see some more muscle definition there!
Has this been the experience with other people? What did you do? Did you do a bulk and cut? Did you just add a couple pounds on while continuing your lifting program? I really have no desire to do a bulk and cut (especially the cut!).0 -
This is something I have been thinking about for a little while. At some point I am going to have to put on a little weight. I am starting to see a little too much rib and hip bones. I am not quite ready to add weight yet. I would like my legs to lean out a little more. I would love to see some more muscle definition there!
Has this been the experience with other people? What did you do? Did you do a bulk and cut? Did you just add a couple pounds on while continuing your lifting program? I really have no desire to do a bulk and cut (especially the cut!).
I kept trying to lose to see if I could slim my legs down, but like you said-ribs, cheek bones. I carry a lot of fat in my butt and legs and killing myself to get to 125 is just not worth it. That being said, I'm also not lean enough to bulk so yes, I'm back at this recomp.0 -
At 6'3" and 175, I'm skinny fat with 22% BF. Ideally I'd like to bulk but my BF is too high and I don't want to loose any more weight so I'll be recomping till I can get down to about 15% BF. Maybe by next summer I'll be ready for a bulk.
It's not a race, it's a marathon... My new mantra!
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »I don't have any research, but I'll post my results here. I've been recomping for about 2 years. I have chronic illness and eating at a deficit can be too much stress on my system.
On the left I was 125 lbs, 24% body fat according to the Eat, Train, Progress body fat estimation thread. On the right I'm still 125 lbs but 2 sizes smaller.
Nice!
How were your lifts during recomp? I find I'm stalling out while cutting, and I'm hoping when I transition to maintenance I can see some further progress.
Well, it's a little different for me because of my chronic pain issues. I often have to scale back and deload so I'm not as far along with my lifts as a lot of ladies who have been lifting the same amount of time. For me the limiting factor is fatigue for the most part, and pain to lesser extent. So I haven't actually gotten to the point where my lifts stop progressing yet.
What is your health condition? I have mild lupus and stay sore a lot. But I never know if it is like that for everyone, or if it is the lupus. If you are not comfortable talking about it on the public forum, please message me.
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Bump0
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Thing of it is, I'm not really a newbie. I have been working out off & on for a while (even tried some full body routines) with minimal results. I like the routine I'm using (Push, Pull, Legs/Glutes). I have several different exercises for each body part and switch them out periodically; I also switch out the # of reps, sets, etc. so I'm not doing the same things over & over again--I'm starting to see results (slow, but sure). 0
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Question: I'm a calorie banker. My TDEE is not that high so if I plan to eat 2500 calories on Saturday, I have a couple of pretty low days during the week, a couple at 1400, maybe one at 1600, and a couple right at maintenance.
Will this have any negative effects on my recomp success? I make sure to hit my protein goal but my low days tend to fall on lifting days.0 -
I think in order to build muscle, I think you need to up your calories on the days you workout and keep the days you do lower cals on the days you don't. I'm not an expert or personal trainer but from what I have been reading in women's fitness mags you need to make the change.0
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A caloric surplus is the #1 dietary requirement for building muscle.
Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day.
The ideal caloric surplus will cause you to gain weight at the ideal rate. For men, that ideal weight gain rate is about 0.5 pound per week (2lbs per month). For women, it’s about 0.25 pound per week (1lb per month).
Weigh yourself at least once per week first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and keep track of your weight (or, weigh in every morning and take the weekly average). If it’s increasing at the ideal rate, you’re perfect. If it isn’t, adjust your daily calorie intake up or down until it is.-1 -
TacticalSumo wrote: »A caloric surplus is the #1 dietary requirement for building muscle.
Specifically, the ideal daily caloric surplus for men is 250 additional calories per day. For women, it’s 125 additional calories per day.
The ideal caloric surplus will cause you to gain weight at the ideal rate. For men, that ideal weight gain rate is about 0.5 pound per week (2lbs per month). For women, it’s about 0.25 pound per week (1lb per month).
Weigh yourself at least once per week first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and keep track of your weight (or, weigh in every morning and take the weekly average). If it’s increasing at the ideal rate, you’re perfect. If it isn’t, adjust your daily calorie intake up or down until it is.
There are many instances where people can build muscle on a deficit. There are also people who prove that recomposition is possible. This entire post is not about bulking, which is what you are preaching. Most people don't want to bulk, so slower gains while losing fat is a valid option.2 -
But you still need to eat more calories on the days you workout (especially if you're lifting) in order to make muscle gains. If you eat at a deficit, your muscles have a hard time growing. A lb of muscle is more dense (and takes up less space) than one lb of fat and in order to gain muscle you cannot deprive it of the calories it needs to grow; eating at a deficit on the days you workout will not help w/muscle growth. The whole idea of recomp (vs. bulk) is to basically eat at maintenance and structure your workout so that you gain muscle and lose body fat. 0
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griffinca2 wrote: »But you still need to eat more calories on the days you workout (especially if you're lifting) in order to make muscle gains. If you eat at a deficit, your muscles have a hard time growing. A lb of muscle is more dense (and takes up less space) than one lb of fat and in order to gain muscle you cannot deprive it of the calories it needs to grow; eating at a deficit on the days you workout will not help w/muscle growth. The whole idea of recomp (vs. bulk) is to basically eat at maintenance and structure your workout so that you gain muscle and lose body fat.
Not necessarily. Your body doesn't shut down muscle building when you go to bed on lifting days. Your muscles are at the peak of repairing the day after you lift, not the day you lift. Eating more on the day you lift provides more fuel for lifting, but not necessarily repair which is when the building actually happens. That's fine if you prefer to eat more on days you lift.0 -
My goal is to get definition. Can you please direct me?
Please advice.
Thanks so much.
I've been doing Starting Strength method of barbell training for about 2.5 years (with a 6-mo break in there). I really like the approach. I started my strength training journey with New Rules of Lifting for Women (NROLW), but was stalling out with dumbbells and cable machines after a couple of months, and the exercise selection seemed too complicated. But it was a good start for sure, and NROLW did a good job explaining why women should lift.
For starting strength, you can check out http://startingstrength.com/site/books or http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-3rd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0982522738
I'm currently doing an intermediate program - there are a lot of options in the method of how to progress. My best lifts at BW of 132 lb / 5'5 / 43 yo are:
Squat - 187.5 lb
Deadlift - 230 lb
Overhead press - 77.5 lb
Bench press - 112 lb
Max chin-ups - 7
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griffinca2 wrote: »Thing of it is, I'm not really a newbie. I have been working out off & on for a while (even tried some full body routines) with minimal results. I like the routine I'm using (Push, Pull, Legs/Glutes). I have several different exercises for each body part and switch them out periodically; I also switch out the # of reps, sets, etc. so I'm not doing the same things over & over again--I'm starting to see results (slow, but sure).
No, that's still newbie if you haven't been serious and consistent about it - proved by fact you have minimal results.
So no that program is not best for you in terms of your goal, not enough volume.
And you do need to precisely do the same things over and over again, with heavier weight, to see improvement.
After you get out of newbie stage, then moving the reps around can keep helping with improvements.
But right now when you change reps you are probably wasting some time trying to get the correct weight for that rep range, by the time you get it, you likely have not much time before you switch it up again, or the lifts, and lose out on real benefit.
Whatever improvements you are getting now - you could be getting more much easier with a better program with more volume spread throughout the week.
Why not make it straight push/pull repeated 3 x weekly.0 -
griffinca2 wrote: »But you still need to eat more calories on the days you workout (especially if you're lifting) in order to make muscle gains. If you eat at a deficit, your muscles have a hard time growing. A lb of muscle is more dense (and takes up less space) than one lb of fat and in order to gain muscle you cannot deprive it of the calories it needs to grow; eating at a deficit on the days you workout will not help w/muscle growth. The whole idea of recomp (vs. bulk) is to basically eat at maintenance and structure your workout so that you gain muscle and lose body fat.
You need enough calories on days you workout to get a truly good workout. That could be handled purely by meal timing.
You need more calories during repair, as mentioned, the 24-36 post good workout. So if you evening workout, that could be a bigger dinner and/or snack, and more the next day.
The post you were commenting to about very low calories all week long to an overage on weekend day - ya, true, that's not beneficial program either, probably just gaining some fat back on that day, even if it was proceeded by a good lifting session day.0 -
griffinca2 wrote: »But you still need to eat more calories on the days you workout (especially if you're lifting) in order to make muscle gains. If you eat at a deficit, your muscles have a hard time growing. A lb of muscle is more dense (and takes up less space) than one lb of fat and in order to gain muscle you cannot deprive it of the calories it needs to grow; eating at a deficit on the days you workout will not help w/muscle growth. The whole idea of recomp (vs. bulk) is to basically eat at maintenance and structure your workout so that you gain muscle and lose body fat.
You need enough calories on days you workout to get a truly good workout. That could be handled purely by meal timing.
You need more calories during repair, as mentioned, the 24-36 post good workout. So if you evening workout, that could be a bigger dinner and/or snack, and more the next day.
The post you were commenting to about very low calories all week long to an overage on weekend day - ya, true, that's not beneficial program either, probably just gaining some fat back on that day, even if it was proceeded by a good lifting session day.
Is this in response to my question? Why would I be gaining fat if I'm in maintenance? What I eat on Saturday doesn't put me over my weekly calorie goal. Maybe I missed something and you're not talking about me.0 -
heybales, I've lost 11 lbs, 9% body fat, 3 in off my waist, I can now do deadlifts & rows w/a 50 lb BB, I can do Bi curls w/a 15 lb DB or 30 lb BB--just by upping my cals, watching my sugar and doing 1-day push, 1-day pull & 1-day legs/glutes w/15 - 20 min of cardio (some of it HIIT) since Mar 15. And P.S. I'm probably old enough to be some folks on here's grandmother. I was past the pink DB stage but was having trouble progressing; once I got serious the changes started happening. 1
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