"Asking if I've lost weight isn't a compliment"
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Who said you didn't like them? Well, you called them indefensible, which generally isn't considered a positive comment on things.DeguelloTex wrote: »Who said I didn't like them? You're reading way, way too much into this and there simply is no slippery slope fallacy involved here, at all, period. Nowhere, and I mean literally nowhere, did I state, imply, or say anything from which anyone could reasonably infer that I am asserting any kind of connection between naming something "Health At Every Size" or something like the PATRIOT Act other than they are both examples of trying to frame debate through labels. That's it. Period. There's no other there there.
ETA:
The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:
Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.
***
Now, cite something I wrote which follows that pattern.
If I inferred wrong that you felt they were good and yet indefensible, my apologies.DeguelloTex wrote: »Oh, I think they have looked at it very closely. There's a growing tendency here to label things as "common sense" -- common sense gun control, common sense immigration reform, common sense tax reform -- because, hey, who's against common sense? It seems that the more indefensible something is, the more likely it is to be labeled "common sense." It's a way of trying to frame the issue so as to be able to dismiss any opponents as crackpots who are against common sense, and thereby avoid the sticky business of actually defending a position by trying to shut off debate as unnecessary. It's sort of a passive-aggressive ad hominem, really, to the extent it doesn't shut people up in the first place.
You've gone from, HAES is bad, to HAES means people's voices will be dismissed on health care, and some how silenced (means left unspecified). And the whole thing stems from assuming this woman is advocating a strict Healthy At Every Size philosophy, but the article doesn't really get into it. At most, she's said, for her, the mental stress of dealing with weight might be more unhealthy than actually living with being overweight.DeguelloTex wrote: »So, if you're against health at any size, you're clearly a loon who can and should be dismissed because you hate health. People who hate health should have no voice.0 -
Funny thing is, we know very well what we are doing when we put on an outfit. We know that it makes x look smaller, y look bigger, form fitting, something that makes us look taller etc. Did she expect others not to notice the very reasons she chose her outfit that day? It's like wearing something specifically to show off your cleavage and expect others not to notice it. We gain or lose weight because we have a specific image in our minds of how we want to look or feel, and we admit in our minds that there are benefits to the weight gain or loss. So how is it rude for somebody to compliment on those things that we already understood?
I get compliments on my weight loss every 2 weeks or so at the gym (i have only lost 16 lbs, but I have been doing a lot of freeweights so I look like I lost more) I love that my hard work is noticed. I knew I didn't like the way It looked before I lost that weight, and I know that it looks better now, do we expect others not to have eyes and realize the same thing we do?
I am still about 25 lbs away from my weight loss goal and I am considered overweight, but this fat culture needs to stop. (as a fat person I think I have the right to have that opinion) People often say that fat people can be healthy too but are they taking into consideration that most "fat people" now days are actually morbidly obese? That' can't be healthy,.0 -
Have you lost weight?
a. Yes
b. No
c. I don't know/I don't care
As simple as that. It's just a question.
why do we care so much about other people's comments and opinions anyway? A comment can affect you only if you allow it to, so you can just choose not to care!0 -
It's like you're passing this stuff through a badly bugged English to senecarr translator and then responding. I've done none of those things. Where did I say that people's voices will be dismissed on healthcare? An actual quote of something I wrote would be helpful here. It seems like you're pretty seriously conflating what I perceive to be the goal of framing an issue as if it's not worthy of legitimate debate with actually succeeding in dismissing that debate. Or something.
Who said you didn't like them? Well, you called them indefensible, which generally isn't considered a positive comment on things.DeguelloTex wrote: »Who said I didn't like them? You're reading way, way too much into this and there simply is no slippery slope fallacy involved here, at all, period. Nowhere, and I mean literally nowhere, did I state, imply, or say anything from which anyone could reasonably infer that I am asserting any kind of connection between naming something "Health At Every Size" or something like the PATRIOT Act other than they are both examples of trying to frame debate through labels. That's it. Period. There's no other there there.
ETA:
The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. In most cases, there are a series of steps or gradations between one event and the one in question and no reason is given as to why the intervening steps or gradations will simply be bypassed. This "argument" has the following form:
Event X has occurred (or will or might occur).
Therefore event Y will inevitably happen.
***
Now, cite something I wrote which follows that pattern.
If I inferred wrong that you felt they were good and yet indefensible, my apologies.DeguelloTex wrote: »Oh, I think they have looked at it very closely. There's a growing tendency here to label things as "common sense" -- common sense gun control, common sense immigration reform, common sense tax reform -- because, hey, who's against common sense? It seems that the more indefensible something is, the more likely it is to be labeled "common sense." It's a way of trying to frame the issue so as to be able to dismiss any opponents as crackpots who are against common sense, and thereby avoid the sticky business of actually defending a position by trying to shut off debate as unnecessary. It's sort of a passive-aggressive ad hominem, really, to the extent it doesn't shut people up in the first place.
You've gone from, HAES is bad, to HAES means people's voices will be dismissed on health care, and some how silenced (means left unspecified). And the whole thing stems from assuming this woman is advocating a strict Healthy At Every Size philosophy, but the article doesn't really get into it. At most, she's said, for her, the mental stress of dealing with weight might be more unhealthy than actually living with being overweight.DeguelloTex wrote: »So, if you're against health at any size, you're clearly a loon who can and should be dismissed because you hate health. People who hate health should have no voice.0 -
Edited because this has already been covered
Many times. 0 -
I really don't believe that people are more easily offended than before. It's just the internet and exploitative media have given them a much larger voice. Just recently there was an article about a protest in my city on how a "coalition" of women were protesting some offence and when I talked to one of the members it turns out it was coalition of about 10 people.
I can't think of anyone in my life who has been seriously offended by something in years; or at least offended enough to talk about it. My only exposure to all these upsets is through the media.0 -
I really don't believe that people are more easily offended than before. It's just the internet and exploitative media have given them a much larger voice. Just recently there was an article about a protest in my city on how a "coalition" of women were protesting some offence and when I talked to one of the members it turns out it was coalition of about 10 people.
I can't think of anyone in my life who has been seriously offended by something in years; or at least offended enough to talk about it. My only exposure to all these upsets is through the media.
That's a good point.
To add to it, when someone doesn't like something - it doesn't mean they're offended. I don't like when people call me skinny now - it bothers me. It doesn't offend me though, and it's not anything I'd ever address. I feel like dislike/annoy/irritate is interpreted as offensive in a lot of cases, and made a bigger deal than it really is (not necessarily by the person that's irritated, either).
There's an example to this in this thread. Someone said something raises their hackles and another person assigned the word offensive to it.
Off topic, sorry!0 -
I love it when people notice that I've lost weight0
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I take it as a compliment because I'm trying to lose weight, and if they noticed, that means I'm successful at it. And if I'm successful at that, it means I can be successful at other things, which is a problem I've always had. I wouldn't say it to someone I didn't know, though, because I can see where some might take offense at it.0
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I don't mind when people notice I've lost weight IF I've lost weight. I can somewhat see where the writer of the article was coming from though because I recently saw a few acquaintances that I had not seen in a year or so. I know I have gained a few pounds since I last saw them yet they greeted me with "you look nice, you've lost weight". Was I offended? Not really but I did comment to my husband on our way home that it's ridiculous that women have to mention weight and go so far as to say you've lost some when you clearly have not.
I'm in the camp that only mentions weight loss when I know the person has been trying and wants to receive such a comment. If I've not seen you then I don't mention it. I have a friend who has lost a ton of weight because she has chronic pancreatisis and is literally in agony every single times she eats. I know an early comment said you can tell when people aren't healthy but that's not always the case. When my friend makes enough effort with make-up you can't tell she's sick. I have two autoimmune disorders and a Chiari malformation that required brain surgery and I look perfectly healthy most of the time.0 -
rebbylicious wrote: »Funny thing is, we know very well what we are doing when we put on an outfit. We know that it makes x look smaller, y look bigger, form fitting, something that makes us look taller etc. Did she expect others not to notice the very reasons she chose her outfit that day? It's like wearing something specifically to show off your cleavage and expect others not to notice it. We gain or lose weight because we have a specific image in our minds of how we want to look or feel, and we admit in our minds that there are benefits to the weight gain or loss. So how is it rude for somebody to compliment on those things that we already understood?
I get compliments on my weight loss every 2 weeks or so at the gym (i have only lost 16 lbs, but I have been doing a lot of freeweights so I look like I lost more) I love that my hard work is noticed. I knew I didn't like the way It looked before I lost that weight, and I know that it looks better now, do we expect others not to have eyes and realize the same thing we do?
I am still about 25 lbs away from my weight loss goal and I am considered overweight, but this fat culture needs to stop. (as a fat person I think I have the right to have that opinion) People often say that fat people can be healthy too but are they taking into consideration that most "fat people" now days are actually morbidly obese? That' can't be healthy,.
Funny thing, as far as I know, there's actually women who are like that.0 -
Ready2Rock206 wrote: »Discussing my weight at all is not acceptable. It is a horribly rude topic and I'd rather be punched in the face then discuss my weight with random people with no social skills who think it is an acceptable topic.
Clearly you have never been punched in the face. It hurts much more than being asked if you have lost weight.
I have actually been punched in the face once. I'd still rather not discuss my body with random people. Unless I'm on MFP or some other specifically weight related place.
But I'm also not going to be offended or make the person fell bad for discussing it. I'm just not going to engage and just change the topic and move on. If you ask if I've lost weight I will say "some" smile and change the topic.
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People get upset if you comment on their weight when they haven't lost weight
People get upset if you DON'T comment on their weight when they HAVE lost weight
God forbid you confuse weight with a baby bump.
I don't comment on weight - AT ALL - unless someone else leads with it. Not mine, not theirs, nor anyone elses.
I do think that maybe I'll start asking happy people what meds they have started taking and how they like them; or
maybe asking unhappy people whether they're having issue with their Prozac prescription...
I think that'll go over well... no?
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Personally I don't get all this fuss. I am fat. And when I say that, let me be clear. My BMI says I am morbidly obese; though right now I would argue that I am probably "just" Obese. I have lost 50 lbs so far. So my weight change has become noticeable. This means that it is talked about EVERY SINGLE TIME I GO ANYWHERE WITH ANYONE I KNOW. And guess what .... I could care less.
We have to accept who we are and be happy with ourselves. You wanna get in better shape/healthier? Great! Me Too! But that doesn't mean I am going to ignore my current problems and not deal with them. That won't solve anything and just feeds the fire.
Hello, my name is Justin, I'm 25, and I am obese. Yes I have lost weight, but I have a lot more to go. I will be and look fat until I lose the remainder of that weight. I'm cool with that, because if I wasn't, the last decade of my life would have been a lot harder. Furthermore, this lifestyle change isn't easy. Embracing the struggles and problems makes it that much easier.0 -
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »My parents in-law don't celebrate Christmas, due to their "religion". I still send them a merry Christmas card every year
I refuse to let anyone take it away from me!!
What privilege you must have, to force your holiday on people who don't want it.
Do you openly/publicly celebrate the 4th of July or Thanksgiving ? Because there are a lot of indigenous Americans who find those pretty horrific and would rather not have them forced upon them.
One year my mother, brother and I participated in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Day_of_Mourning_(United_States_protest)
I think it's time to go again. My minister acknowledges this minimally the service before Thanksgiving.
I think it's funny on Mother's Day when people are trying to figure out if I am a mother or not.
I don't care if people wish me a Merry Christmas or Happy Holiday. I would never send anyone a card not appropriate for the religion they celebrate.
I'd be annoyed if people didn't notice a big weight loss. My mother sees me every week and doesn't notice (or major changes to my hairstyle) so I keep her posted.0 -
Exactly this...my husband has one arm that is very discolored from an anti nausea drug his mom took when she was pregnant...PeachyCarol wrote: »LyndseyLovesToLift wrote: »On one hand, it's annoying when people take offense to everything people say. Get over yourself.
On the other hand, I don't think anyone should be making comments about other people's bodies. However, if it's meant as a compliment, and it's the thought that counts, it's really not worth getting worked up about it.
When I get comments like, "you're so tiny" or "you're so skinny," I just smile with that polite little half-laugh thing and go about my business. I prefer getting comments like, "you look strong" or "you look fit," but we can't pick and choose what compliments people are giving us. The comments that bother me are, "you're getting too skinny - you need to stop" or "you're looking awfully thin...are you healthy?" or "oh, so you decided to eat today?" These comments are just ignorant and misinformed. I eat plenty, I'm at a healthy weight for my height, and I'm no longer seeking to lose weight. However, I wouldn't write an article about it. In the end, who the hell cares? Just brush it off.
Regarding this remark, not to single out your post, but it's been said a lot in this thread. I'd like to offer a different perspective.
My nephew was born without one of his hands. He actually prefers if people ask him about it to people just sort of furtively staring.
One day, when he was little, we were with the kids at a local nature center, and a woman was there. She had no arm. We walked up, introduced ourselves and during the course of the conversation asked how she lost it. She told us, my sister told her the doctor's theory on my my nephew didn't have a hand, and the woman gave him some tips on tying his shoes. She then thanked us for asking about it.
Sometimes, it can be okay to ask.
He prefers people ask...and what's funny is that it is not offensive at all....and that really is about his body....
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This all is actually very funny now that I think about it...
We had a weight loss challenge at work...we had a dietician come in...
We have a health and wellness group...
It's not random people that comment it's people you know well enough that will comment if they so choose.
The owner of the company I've known since I was 6...been working here for 16 years...yes he knows me...0 -
LOL. Poe's Law strikes again.I love the amount of slippery slope in this thread.
Apparently one woman asks people to consider she that some people don't want to talk about their weight, including using it as a compliment, and the results are: we're all going to car crash, cancel all holidays, and possibly have immigrants come take our guns away in the night.
Could anyone tell me where the author asked this become some kind of national law, that we can't say "have you lost weight" to people without 90+ days in a gulag? I really missed that part of the article.
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Maybe those other cultures should all stop being so rude and read THE guidelines.PeachyCarol wrote: »
It's not an issue of social skills as much as plain old manners. One of the reasons you don't talk about people losing weight is that it may be because they're sick. The other big one would be that it's just wildly inappropriate to walk up to someone and start talking about their body.It feels like sometimes people want everyone to just sit still and if you do engage in conversation don't discuss anything other than the weather or other neutral topics.
Because heaven forbide you touch on a unpleasant or embarrassing topic.
People say that asking about weight etc shows poor social skills, seems like not being able to handle a touchy subject is the real lack of social skills.
I imagine for most people losing weight is a positive thing, they aimed to lose weight, get healthier and if they achieve it then why can't people compliment them.
Should we eliminate entire topics from discussion just because some people may have lost weight for bad reasons like illness?
If that's the case we can't talk about people's children since they might be sick, we can't talk about their friends or family in case one is sick or dying, don't even ask about sports in case their team lost on the weekend. Don't ask how they are going even if they look sad or depressed cause you might get a bad response or rub salt in a wound. Don't congratulate someone for getting a first aid certificate in case they don't renew it when it expires.
So are people too sensitive? Assuming the worst of people, thinking compliments are backhanded insults?
Most of us have eyes, are very visual so why is physical appearance such a sore area. What will you notice first, a new hair cut, losing 20kg or a change to your personality or intellect? Got to start the conversation somewhere?
Wonder how much flack I'll get for this.
It's much easier when everyone follows the same guidelines. When people do what we are seeing here, with everyone making up their own set of rules and demanding that the rest of the world behave their way and making themselves the arbiters of what is and isn't okay...it doesn't work. You end up with a bunch of pissed off people. A bunch of people being offensive, maybe without meaning to be, and a bunch of people being offended, maybe without the right to be.
When everyone follows the guidelines, nobody has to ask the questions you ask because everyone already knows the answers. No offense is taken where it wasn't intended, etc. It's just easier.
So you're okay being the arbiter. LOL.
Do you realize even different cultures vary on what's an acceptable topic of conversation?
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Coming from an Asian family who was not raised in America, words can be abrasive. I don't get a simple, "did you gain weight?" it comes with grabbing my love handles or a poke at my stomach. I was taught to have thick skin and just be blunt, "yes, I've gained weight. I'm working on it though." And the conversation ends there. In that short conversation is concern, not judgment, so I learn to accept it, because truthfully, I have gained weight and can stand to lose a bit. No point in being offended by an obvious statement, could just be me though.0
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Frankly, the writer's a goddamn snowflake. I'm sure if you told her "your hair looks good today", she'd think you were plotting to undermine her career and see her whoring herself out in a gutter because her hair is actually horrible and how dare you suggest otherwise.
Some people need to give others reason to hate them because their own self-loathing is clearly not enough.0 -
My mum came to stay on the weekend and I haven't seen her for a looong time. She said to me "you look so slim and beautiful! You're gorgeous honey and I am SO proud of you. It must be so hard to stick at this for so long".
I was on cloud 9 after that. I have worked hard, I do look better and I DID look dreadful when I started. So happy someone acknowledged my efforts. I don't see how any of that could be taken as an offense. Who looks good at a BMI of 52?!0 -
It's not an issue of social skills as much as plain old manners. One of the reasons you don't talk about people losing weight is that it may be because they're sick. The other big one would be that it's just wildly inappropriate to walk up to someone and start talking about their body.It feels like sometimes people want everyone to just sit still and if you do engage in conversation don't discuss anything other than the weather or other neutral topics.
Because heaven forbide you touch on a unpleasant or embarrassing topic.
People say that asking about weight etc shows poor social skills, seems like not being able to handle a touchy subject is the real lack of social skills.
I imagine for most people losing weight is a positive thing, they aimed to lose weight, get healthier and if they achieve it then why can't people compliment them.
Should we eliminate entire topics from discussion just because some people may have lost weight for bad reasons like illness?
If that's the case we can't talk about people's children since they might be sick, we can't talk about their friends or family in case one is sick or dying, don't even ask about sports in case their team lost on the weekend. Don't ask how they are going even if they look sad or depressed cause you might get a bad response or rub salt in a wound. Don't congratulate someone for getting a first aid certificate in case they don't renew it when it expires.
So are people too sensitive? Assuming the worst of people, thinking compliments are backhanded insults?
Most of us have eyes, are very visual so why is physical appearance such a sore area. What will you notice first, a new hair cut, losing 20kg or a change to your personality or intellect? Got to start the conversation somewhere?
Wonder how much flack I'll get for this.
It's much easier when everyone follows the same guidelines. When people do what we are seeing here, with everyone making up their own set of rules and demanding that the rest of the world behave their way and making themselves the arbiters of what is and isn't okay...it doesn't work. You end up with a bunch of pissed off people. A bunch of people being offensive, maybe without meaning to be, and a bunch of people being offended, maybe without the right to be.
When everyone follows the guidelines, nobody has to ask the questions you ask because everyone already knows the answers. No offense is taken where it wasn't intended, etc. It's just easier.
Isn't manners part of social skills?
But why should a topic be off topic just because of the chance that it might upset them. Like if it is 100% going to offend them then sure don't ask. Like if your at a funeral for someone mum don't ask how's she going.
But most people I have meet who have lost weight worked at it and if I notice they put effort in and achieved a goal in going to congratulate them.
If I then get told they were sick I'm going to say sorry.
It just seems to me like normal human interactions. It's never going to be perfect and your solution seems to be avoid it all together.
Also who makes up these guidelines you mentioned? You seem to be in the minority if you read over this thread.
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Did you lose weight, never bothered me, but I never know what to say. Do I offer how much? I'm proud of my loss, but don't want to admit how much I used to weigh. Usually, I say, "Yeah. Some. Thanks!"
Then there's the "How'd you do it?" questions, that I used to ask, so I'm sympathetic to those questions, but feel like "Counted calories" falls short on them0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »Boo fricking hoo.
"I like your new hairstyle." "Why did you remind me of my old, terrible one?!!?!?!"
What a way to go through life.
Agreed. If someone is trying to tell you something they think is nice you say thank you and that's that.0 -
Did you lose weight, never bothered me, but I never know what to say. Do I offer how much? I'm proud of my loss, but don't want to admit how much I used to weigh. Usually, I say, "Yeah. Some. Thanks!"
Then there's the "How'd you do it?" questions, that I used to ask, so I'm sympathetic to those questions, but feel like "Counted calories" falls short on them
I say ate less, worked out a lot.
Except once when this creepy guy wouldn't shut up about how much better my body looked. I told him "kickboxing."0 -
christinev297 wrote: »
Good point... I would probably be upset if someone asked if I'd gained weight, but I would rather someone told me. It took me being 2 stone overweight before I actually realised how much weight I'd put on, even though a few people around me noticed me gaining.0 -
I don't mind anyone asking me if I've lost weight...I have. It's a pretty big difference how I look now to how I looked a year and a half ago. It's not like they are asking about some secret event that happened in my life. I was fat and now i'm less fat. People are free to ask me anything about it. I much prefer that to the number of times I was asked if I was pregnant when i was obese.0
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