Health is more than body size. Don't use the scale to measure health.
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I'm having a hard time understanding why allowing people to find clothing that fits them (including workout clothing) is "unhealth acceptance". I'm currently losing weight. I still want to look good in what I wear. That doesn't mean I'm complacent, it means that I don't want to look like I'm wearing a burlap sack as I'm trying to improve my health. I also want workout clothing that moves with me, allows me to do the workout I want, and look reasonably nice on me. I see nothing wrong with marketing "perfect fit" clothing for those who are plus size. We too need things to wear as we continue this journey.
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I feel like almost no one has not had the opportunity to run (unlike say SCUBA diving or pole dancing) but admit this may not be true for everyone.
Running actually does have some form elements to it and some strength elements. It's possible to have been running (as people do) and yet do it wrong and have to be taught it.
One way in which people do it wrong is trying to run too fast (common when they've only ever sprinted or run in the context of other sports before). This is one of the benefits of something like C25K. But even beyond this there are issues with form that can be corrected and muscle imbalances that can be fixed.
Not saying YOU or anyone else who doesn't want to should run, but that people shouldn't think they either are or are not "good at it."I have other foot issues that have emerged since but can't as clearly link to the running.
Re fallen arches, I have those, and it's not running in my case--it's a combination of genetics (but for size I have my dad's feet pretty much exactly, it's funny) and probably being overweight.
My issue with your original comment isn't that I think everyone should run. I don't like the idea that others, from on high, need to look out for the fat and tell them what they should or should not do, as if being fat also made you incompetent. (Ironically, this is also why I get my back up about the idea that we need to be warning the fat to eat healthy or stay away from "bad foods," as if they didn't already know they should eat a generally nutritious diet and not overdo the high calorie/low nutrient stuff.) Having been fat, I think we should acknowledge that fat people are, in fact, just as likely to be intelligent and competent as you or I, and simply haven't figured out the weight loss thing yet or, more likely, haven't yet cared enough to do it. The idea that as a fat person I need others to look out for me and tell me what's good for me would NOT have helped me lose weight. However, seeing other overweight people exercise and get fitter and, yes, lose weight, was something that was encouraging and motivating, even though I knew in my head it was something I should do.0 -
KittensMaster wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »
What does that even mean?
How do you know you're good at running before you decide to try running?
I feel like almost no one has not had the opportunity to run (unlike say SCUBA diving or pole dancing) but admit this may not be true for everyone.
The following is my opinion (albeit one shared by at least two of my past physiotherapists):
Some people are built to run. Great biomechanics for running. They're like gazelles, beautiful to watch. They know they can run because when they do it, it's easy and feels good (vs bad).
Some people are ok at running. Medium biomechanics for running, maybe not perfect but they can make it work without hurting themselves.
Some people SUCK at running and will almost certainly hurt themselves if they do it long enough bc their mechanics for it are terrible.
The issue is when people THINK they're in group 2 but are actually in group 3. That can be long term bad news bears (it happened to me).
Many people who are ACTUALLY in group 2 will probably be fine, but there's no real way to know until you've already hurt yourself, possibly permanently
Fairly sure that as bipedal creatures, humans as a whole are in fact born to run.
Now whether they're good at it or whether it's safe or whether they enjoy it or not is an individual matter.
That's a weird argument, obviously we're bipedal and human and not e.g. fish and humans generally run. Obviously I'm talking about the variation in whatever underlies biomechanics that's expressed in individuals.
Huh? What does this even mean?
It means they said a few harsh mean things that are indefensible. Won't admit wrong and nobody lets them off the hook for it.
Now begins a Bill Clintonesque sort of
"What is the defenition of the word is"
Sort of back pedaling
Zero back pedalling, I've been consistent.Yes, there are many factors, various studies implicate BMI eg this one
http://ojs.sagepub.com/content/1/1/2325967113487316.short
Did you read this from your most recent study?Conclusion: The findings of the present study suggest BMI >30 kg/m2, age between 45 and 65 years, noncompetitive behavior, and previous injuries not related to running are associated with increased risk of injury among novice runners, while BMI <20 kg/m2 was protective. Still, the role of the risk factors in the causal mechanism leading to injury needs to be investigated.
BMI is only one factor, and the results of the study are basically inconclusive.
When I was fat and running I did not have an injury one single time. In fact, I've never had a running injury.
Yes, I said there are multiple factors that go into it.
It's good that you haven't been injured. You probably have decent biomechanics. (Seriously, if you've done it for years with not a single injury, you're pretty unusual.) But you are not everyone. n=1 is a pretty unacceptable sample size from which to generalize. I am not everyone either, also an n=1. But the fact remains that the risk is high for many. What I initially said was that my OPINION was that overweight people and people of any weight who suck at running would do better to not run. I am pretty much done explaining that.The issue is not whether a fat person can run or not.
Thank you
No, this is what you said:Yeah actually I am not so keen on overweight people running. Or on anyone at any weight who doesn't *already know they're good at running* running. Ftr.
Yes, I said *I* am *not so keen* etc. Read those bits again and tell me what else that could possibly mean in English.
***
Also, you all are welcome to my
- plantar fasciitis x 2 episodes (I tried running more than once!)
- completely fallen arch
- patellofemoral syndrome
- chronic peroneal tendonitis that left me unable to walk for longer than 5 minutes at a time for a full year and with continuing pain and neuropathy to this day (4 years later) and cost me tremendous mental strain (due in part to difficulties even getting it diagnosed) and lots of $$$ to treat - oh yeah, if you run, you'd better be able to afford physiotherapy. LOL to ppl saying running is "free"
I have other foot issues that have emerged since but can't as clearly link to the running. I have other knee issues that are definitely related to the compensations and gluteal weakness that occurred after the peroneal tendonitis. (That happened bc it took forever to get the thing understood, despite seeking immediate help.)
For all that, I had maybe a few months of that beautiful feeling of your body moving in the sun etc etc etc. I say, eff it, walk instead. (If you think you are crap at running. As I was told multiple times by multiple gym teachers.)
I did C25K, had a gait analysis done, did a running clinic, paid $200 bucks for the "right" shoes, read about foot strike etc in freaking Runner's World, read Runner's World constantly, was cautious as f*k, took weeks OFF C25K when I had TINY, TINY twinges that I couldn't read or interpret, went back and repeated weeks when it seemed necessary, didn't matter.
Some people just shouldn't run. In my opinion.
N=10 -
KittensMaster wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »
What does that even mean?
How do you know you're good at running before you decide to try running?
I feel like almost no one has not had the opportunity to run (unlike say SCUBA diving or pole dancing) but admit this may not be true for everyone.
The following is my opinion (albeit one shared by at least two of my past physiotherapists):
Some people are built to run. Great biomechanics for running. They're like gazelles, beautiful to watch. They know they can run because when they do it, it's easy and feels good (vs bad).
Some people are ok at running. Medium biomechanics for running, maybe not perfect but they can make it work without hurting themselves.
Some people SUCK at running and will almost certainly hurt themselves if they do it long enough bc their mechanics for it are terrible.
The issue is when people THINK they're in group 2 but are actually in group 3. That can be long term bad news bears (it happened to me).
Many people who are ACTUALLY in group 2 will probably be fine, but there's no real way to know until you've already hurt yourself, possibly permanently
Fairly sure that as bipedal creatures, humans as a whole are in fact born to run.
Now whether they're good at it or whether it's safe or whether they enjoy it or not is an individual matter.
That's a weird argument, obviously we're bipedal and human and not e.g. fish and humans generally run. Obviously I'm talking about the variation in whatever underlies biomechanics that's expressed in individuals.
Huh? What does this even mean?
It means they said a few harsh mean things that are indefensible. Won't admit wrong and nobody lets them off the hook for it.
Now begins a Bill Clintonesque sort of
"What is the defenition of the word is"
Sort of back pedaling
Zero back pedalling, I've been consistent.Yes, there are many factors, various studies implicate BMI eg this one
http://ojs.sagepub.com/content/1/1/2325967113487316.short
Did you read this from your most recent study?Conclusion: The findings of the present study suggest BMI >30 kg/m2, age between 45 and 65 years, noncompetitive behavior, and previous injuries not related to running are associated with increased risk of injury among novice runners, while BMI <20 kg/m2 was protective. Still, the role of the risk factors in the causal mechanism leading to injury needs to be investigated.
BMI is only one factor, and the results of the study are basically inconclusive.
When I was fat and running I did not have an injury one single time. In fact, I've never had a running injury.
Yes, I said there are multiple factors that go into it.
It's good that you haven't been injured. You probably have decent biomechanics. (Seriously, if you've done it for years with not a single injury, you're pretty unusual.) But you are not everyone. n=1 is a pretty unacceptable sample size from which to generalize. I am not everyone either, also an n=1. But the fact remains that the risk is high for many. What I initially said was that my OPINION was that overweight people and people of any weight who suck at running would do better to not run. I am pretty much done explaining that.The issue is not whether a fat person can run or not.
Thank you
No, this is what you said:Yeah actually I am not so keen on overweight people running. Or on anyone at any weight who doesn't *already know they're good at running* running. Ftr.
Yes, I said *I* am *not so keen* etc. Read those bits again and tell me what else that could possibly mean in English.
***
Also, you all are welcome to my
- plantar fasciitis x 2 episodes (I tried running more than once!)
- completely fallen arch
- patellofemoral syndrome
- chronic peroneal tendonitis that left me unable to walk for longer than 5 minutes at a time for a full year and with continuing pain and neuropathy to this day (4 years later) and cost me tremendous mental strain (due in part to difficulties even getting it diagnosed) and lots of $$$ to treat - oh yeah, if you run, you'd better be able to afford physiotherapy. LOL to ppl saying running is "free"
I have other foot issues that have emerged since but can't as clearly link to the running. I have other knee issues that are definitely related to the compensations and gluteal weakness that occurred after the peroneal tendonitis. (That happened bc it took forever to get the thing understood, despite seeking immediate help.)
For all that, I had maybe a few months of that beautiful feeling of your body moving in the sun etc etc etc. I say, eff it, walk instead. (If you think you are crap at running. As I was told multiple times by multiple gym teachers.)
I did C25K, had a gait analysis done, did a running clinic, paid $200 bucks for the "right" shoes, read about foot strike etc in freaking Runner's World, read Runner's World constantly, was cautious as f*k, took weeks OFF C25K when I had TINY, TINY twinges that I couldn't read or interpret, went back and repeated weeks when it seemed necessary, didn't matter.
Some people just shouldn't run. In my opinion.
N=1
Also 30% of novice runners who attended a 3 month running clinic in that huge prospective study and 50% of all runners in a given year (get injured, not necessarily w peroneal tendonitis etc)0 -
gaelicstorm26 wrote: »I'm having a hard time understanding why allowing people to find clothing that fits them (including workout clothing) is "unhealth acceptance". I'm currently losing weight. I still want to look good in what I wear. That doesn't mean I'm complacent, it means that I don't want to look like I'm wearing a burlap sack as I'm trying to improve my health. I also want workout clothing that moves with me, allows me to do the workout I want, and look reasonably nice on me. I see nothing wrong with marketing "perfect fit" clothing for those who are plus size. We too need things to wear as we continue this journey.
Yes.
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Have you ever seen photos of swimmers that cross the English Channel?
They come in all shapes and sizes and by god they are strong and have stamina.
I think it's a good thing to see fat people exercising. I'd rather see that than just 'model' physiques. To me it promotes exercise not obesity - I guess it's how you personally see the photo(s)0 -
Trying to justify being fat and saying that its not about the number on the scale..okay. When it comes to running, that number on the scale matters, a lot. It might be mean to say but the girl in the picture in that article is not healthy as much as she'd like to believe she is. She's overweight. Let's be realistic, please. 10 years of running..wtf? Did it ever occur to her that being lighter would be easier on her joints..I'm so tired of society trying to have acceptance about everything..society is too sensitive. She's not healthy. She's not fit. She's overweight for crying out loud. The article screams "HEY, YOU CAN RUN AND EAT DONUTS TOO!" Running is a good way to lose weight but this article is bull sh8t in the sense it screams acceptance...0
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Again - personal perception. Interesting nonetheless who perceives it as promoting and validating different things.0
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I can run. I can eat donuts. Neither have any direct correlation between the number on the scale. CICO does.
Besides the point..the article is bs..of course CICO..but if you eat donuts all the time, what benefits is that doing for your body in terms of recovery? Nothing wrong with treating yourself to donuts occasionally though..0 -
SarcasmIsMyLoveLanguage wrote: »http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Health+more+than+body+size+Dont+scale+measure+health+experts/11257544/story.html
"We live in a society where people who happen to carry a few extra pounds are looked down upon and face a lot of bias and discrimination — especially as you come to higher BMIs — and that makes their lives miserable. It's not that they actually have health problems."
Totally disingenuous. First, people who are urged to lose weight aren't carrying around "a few extra pounds", but a significant amount of weight that current medical opinion says is unhealthy. Second, they often do have health problems, or if they don't at present in time they will have weight-related problems.
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oh god reading some responses I felt like jeez I have to say sorry for being obese for the first 25 years of my life and sorry that during that time I didn't actually hate my self
, felt disgusted with my body or didn't wrote a post like many people do "oh I'm 20 lbs overweight, I look like a whale, I don't want to get out of my house".
so while she possibly choose to lose the weight or not, she can't be photographed? look good? promote exercise/clothes? be on the cover of the magazine?
oh yesss we have to wait until she is fit and healthy enough to fit the role model so she can even dare to speak about running #SMH
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okay, so you finally decided after 25 years of your life to change..awesome...some of us didn't wait that long.oh god reading some responses I felt like jeez I have to say sorry for being obese for the first 25 years of my life and sorry that during that time I didn't actually hate my self , felt disgusted with my body or didn't wrote a post like many people do "oh I'm 20 lbs overweight, I look like a whale, I don't want to get out of my house".
so while she possibly choose to lose the weight or not, she can't be photographed? look good? promote exercise/clothes? be on the cover of the magazine?
oh yesss we have to wait until she is fit and healthy enough to fit the role model so she can even dare to speak about running #SMH
Quit being so sensitive.0 -
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williamwj2014 wrote: »
okay, so you finally decided after 25 years of your life to change..awesome...some of us didn't wait that long.oh god reading some responses I felt like jeez I have to say sorry for being obese for the first 25 years of my life and sorry that during that time I didn't actually hate my self , felt disgusted with my body or didn't wrote a post like many people do "oh I'm 20 lbs overweight, I look like a whale, I don't want to get out of my house".
so while she possibly choose to lose the weight or not, she can't be photographed? look good? promote exercise/clothes? be on the cover of the magazine?
oh yesss we have to wait until she is fit and healthy enough to fit the role model so she can even dare to speak about running #SMH
Quit being so sensitive.
wait? what? quit doing what? this is freaking hilarious, I don't do anything just because you feel like it pal
pss and some didn't have to start anything, cause they manage to always be in perfect healthy weight> are they like in more awesomeness level than you?
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williamwj2014 wrote: »Trying to justify being fat and saying that its not about the number on the scale..okay. When it comes to running, that number on the scale matters, a lot. It might be mean to say but the girl in the picture in that article is not healthy as much as she'd like to believe she is. She's overweight. Let's be realistic, please. 10 years of running..wtf? Did it ever occur to her that being lighter would be easier on her joints..I'm so tired of society trying to have acceptance about everything..society is too sensitive. She's not healthy. She's not fit. She's overweight for crying out loud. The article screams "HEY, YOU CAN RUN AND EAT DONUTS TOO!" Running is a good way to lose weight but this article is bull sh8t in the sense it screams acceptance...
Agree. Thank you.
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There is some difference between "perfect" and "morbidly obese". Healthy does not mean "perfect". We are all here for a goal and hopefully will not fall off after some 2 months fad diet.0
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If an overweight person has healthy stats and can do the normal activities that he or she needs (and wants) to do, then I'm not going to say that person is unhealthy based on his or her weight. Being a little overweight isn't a problem for most people. Being morbidly obese often is, but that's between an individual and that person's physician.0
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lithezebra wrote: »If an overweight person has healthy stats and can do the normal activities that he or she needs (and wants) to do, then I'm not going to say that person is unhealthy based on his or her weight.
That doesn't change the reality that they are, in fact, unhealthy.
Not all damage is immediately visible, even with bloodwork.
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As I have mentioned before, if you look around, obese people are missing from the population of 70+.0
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That comment I made was a response to karyabc's last post.
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And you know it's not encouraging anyone to exercise how? I know a number of people who were inspired to exercise by such things as the book "Short, Fat Triathlete." And exercise, as well as falling in love with a particular athletic endeavor is a good way to inspire out of shape people to get into shape, which will involve losing weight.
Also, picture says "you can be fat AND be fit, if you exercise."
Person who thinks (wrongly, of course) that she's just genetically fat thinks "it would be fun to be more fit and do something athletic and I might feel better." So she starts working toward some goal. Worst case, she gets more fit and healthy but eats more so maintains her overweight status. More likely, she gets more fit and healthy and loses some but stalls out at some point because she needs to focus on diet too. In some cases, she gets more fit and healthy and as she gets serious about training she changes her diet or consciously starts focusing on losing more weight and does so.
IMO, all 3 of these are better than being overweight and inactive if one has the capacity to be active.
I don't get your need to be negative about it.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
And you know it's not encouraging anyone to exercise how? I know a number of people who were inspired to exercise by such things as the book "Short, Fat Triathlete." And exercise, as well as falling in love with a particular athletic endeavor is a good way to inspire out of shape people to get into shape, which will involve losing weight.
Also, picture says "you can be fat AND be fit, if you exercise."
She is not fit.
Sorry.
It's one thing to start running on a weight loss journey - I was 270 when I started running, I get it. But what she is doing by running and staying obese is just irreparably damaging her internals.
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Yes, obese people can be healthy, just like some smokers live well into their 80s. I know a woman who is a 350 pound frame on a 5' body, who has diabetes and sleep apnea, yet she's in her 80s alive and kicking actively involved in social life. outliers exist. No one is debating that (although in this particular case we really don't know since she is still young). Heck, one of the oldest women in the world was interviewed and she revealed she believed smoking was the secret behind her extraordinary ability to survive time passing.
Seeing her active is sure inspiring and beats the alternative. The practice needs to be praised, not the look. She is fit despite of her weight, not because of it. This is what actually fascinates me when I read the popular media. Now in her case she may not want to lose the weight because her job depends on it, but in general sometimes people with excuses tend to get praised for "embracing their curves" and treated like heroes for doing something any health-conscious person should pay attention to. A thinner model running would not make the news because it does not sound interesting or sensationalized, that's all.
What's funny is that just 3 years ago I was a happily morbidly obese 300+ pound person, and I thought I was invincible. Until I got diagnosed with prediabetes and it ripped off my security blanket, forcing me to change my outlook on several issues.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
And you know it's not encouraging anyone to exercise how? I know a number of people who were inspired to exercise by such things as the book "Short, Fat Triathlete." And exercise, as well as falling in love with a particular athletic endeavor is a good way to inspire out of shape people to get into shape, which will involve losing weight.
Also, picture says "you can be fat AND be fit, if you exercise."
She is not fit.
Sorry.
Why are you apologizing to me? Nothing I said was about HER fitness. I don't have any interest in whether she's fit or not, I just find it bizarre that instead of embracing the positive message that even fat people can and should exercise, that some seem to prefer that fat people stay inactive so we can better criticize them for being unhealthy.
I should have phrased the point better, though--the photo says: you can be fat NOW and yet work on becoming fit, if you exercise. I agree that while you will be MORE fit even if you don't lose any weight you won't be entirely fit so long as you are obese. Where you and I differ (among other things) is that I DON'T think it's that important that someone be thinking "I will run to lose weight" in order to end up becoming fit (including losing weight) as a result of exercise + other changes. It's one positive change that's better than nothing and may well start a chain of position changes.
The point is that some who IS fat can BECOME fit--she is not doomed to stay as is or to stay inactive. As I have said several times now (including in what you quoted), I believe that part of getting fit will involve losing weight.
But obviously you don't immediately lose the weight. It takes time.
I have a photo of myself after I'd lost about 40 lbs from my heaviest riding a biking in a local ride. I don't much like the photo--I still am obese, and I don't like how I look obese--but I'm proud at the progress between how I was when I started and how I was then. And I think there are definitely people who could be inspired to think they can get healthier and do things like bike and run and exercise in other ways by the fact that someone who is as fat as I still was is able to.
I would not argue that I was at some ideal weight when I was still obese, like I said--I was trying to lose weight. But your posts on this board seem to suggest that if someone isn't constantly apologizing for being huge and disgusting and is instead working on increasing her fitness through exercise without directly talking (or perhaps focusing on) the weight loss aspect, that she's somehow leading others to become fat, which is frankly ridiculous.
What I see is that lots of people feel unable to lose weight and terrible about themselves and that the latter feeling tends to result in them not doing what they need to do to lose weight. Realizing you can focus on fitness even if you don't yet believe you can lose the weight encourages positive behavior changes vs. staying the same, and likely helps empower people to believe they can lose the weight too, in many cases. I know focusing on fitness and exercise was really helpful for me, again.It's one thing to start running on a weight loss journey - I was 270 when I started running, I get it. But what she is doing by running and staying obese is just irreparably damaging her internals.
Didn't someone say she's 18? I don't think we have reason to assume that she--or that anyone inspired by seeing her running--will stay obese. Most people don't want to be obese, and getting active is a really positive lifestyle change, as you and I both know.0 -
Would you say this lady is unhealthy? I am smaller than her yet no way near her fitness level. I don't think she promotes fat (like the running woman) myself.... I just see strength of mind and body. Strong men competitors aren't always the ripped kind (from what I have seen - I'm no expert).
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-swimming-blog/2013/aug/09/how-i-swam-english-channel0 -
One of the things I liked the most about the last marathon I went to (as a volunteer medic) was that it wasn't full of people who looked the same. Some of them were old and some were fat... and the marathon was still for them. They trained for it and they ran it, whether they came in at the front or the rear. I was super inspired by all of them and talked to as many people as I could to find out why they were there.
Nobody was celebrating being old/overweight/obese - they were celebrating the fact that they were runners who just completed this crazy awesome challenge. I wasn't inspired to get any fatter by talking to the overweight/obese runners and listening to their stories, but I did register for a color run and tried to get back on the c25k thing.
I LOVE seeing people who look like me do things that I wish I could do. It IS inspiring.
Most of the time, my fat just makes me wish I was invisible. I can't go out of the house and run because people are looking! People might see me jiggle! I *need* to see people who get out there and do it anyway.
TL;DR: Yes to more fat people on fitness covers, please.0
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