All pills are not snake oil
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Jozz, you'll do well here.0
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And oh my God close supervision? You nwUltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
And oh my God, close supervision? You better damn well trust your doc with your life like Michael did. you HAVE to know there are tons of docs that overprescribe. I used to think people with medical marijuana cards had terminal illnesses only. Ha! That's naivety at it's finest.
Do you not feel there is some onus on the consumer to educate themselves? Ambien is a hypnotic sedative = not appropriate to be driving while taking it.
Absolutely overprescribing happens. It's, in part because people come into their offices demanding a quick fix for whatever their symptoms are, rather than doing the hard work of balanced diet, exercise, stretching, etc. It's much easier to take a pill and act like it's going to fix everything.
There are absolutely legitimate reasons for taking prescriptions in disease processes, but there needs to be some realistic expectations on the part of the consumer that meds in isolation from other interventions (physiotherapy, nutritional support, psychotherapy, etc.) will have a limited effect. These things won't always work in isolation. It requires time, patience, and diligence to find the right balances.
This is a very different situation from running to the local 'health food store' and take a bunch of random pills that claim to support weight loss, while not actually being subjected to any regulatory standards.0 -
And oh my God close supervision? You nwUltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
And oh my God, close supervision? You better damn well trust your doc with your life like Michael did. you HAVE to know there are tons of docs that overprescribe. I used to think people with medical marijuana cards had terminal illnesses only. Ha! That's naivety at it's finest.
Those medications, when prescribed by a responsible doctor and monitored according to the standards of care, are effective treatments. Yes, it is true there are a number of less responsible doctors and patients who doctor shop, who circumvent the guidelines or laws for using some of these drugs. When they are found there are legal mechanisms to address that.
Michael Jackson's agents specifically hired the doctor who gave him his drugs because he would do it without questioning too closely. Just because very rich celebrity who could afford to hire people to do exactly what he wanted without question abused the system does not mean that those drugs should not be used where appropriate.0 -
If you don't support supplements, what was the point of this post?
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And oh my God close supervision? You nwUltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
And oh my God, close supervision? You better damn well trust your doc with your life like Michael did. you HAVE to know there are tons of docs that overprescribe. I used to think people with medical marijuana cards had terminal illnesses only. Ha! That's naivety at it's finest.
Can we not fear monger against prescription drugs? To be honest, it is people who have this mentality towards prescription medication that made me embarrassed to be taking a mood stabilizer and other psych meds as needed. People would say oh- those aren't needed/over prescribed/you don't need them. I stupidly listened to them and after a few severe manic episodes that led to some very very dangerous and potentially deadly choices, decided being on meds was the safer option.
Moral- do not assume one is on medication because it is "over prescribed" and no one but ones doctor should be giving medication advice.0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »And oh my God close supervision? You nwUltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
And oh my God, close supervision? You better damn well trust your doc with your life like Michael did. you HAVE to know there are tons of docs that overprescribe. I used to think people with medical marijuana cards had terminal illnesses only. Ha! That's naivety at it's finest.
Do you not feel there is some onus on the consumer to educate themselves? Ambien is a hypnotic sedative = not appropriate to be driving while taking it.
Absolutely overprescribing happens. It's, in part because people come into their offices demanding a quick fix for whatever their symptoms are, rather than doing the hard work of balanced diet, exercise, stretching, etc. It's much easier to take a pill and act like it's going to fix everything.
There are absolutely legitimate reasons for taking prescriptions in disease processes, but there needs to be some realistic expectations on the part of the consumer that meds in isolation from other interventions (physiotherapy, nutritional support, psychotherapy, etc.) will have a limited effect. These things won't always work in isolation. It requires time, patience, and diligence to find the right balances.
This is a very different situation from running to the local 'health food store' and take a bunch of random pills that claim to support weight loss, while not actually being subjected to any regulatory standards.
And it's not like it's difficult. Even the tv commercials say not to operate heavy machinery while on the medication and that it can induce sleep walking.0 -
And a CICO cult? LMAO! This entire website is based on CICO! Or did you not realize that?0
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And oh my God close supervision? You nwUltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
And oh my God, close supervision? You better damn well trust your doc with your life like Michael did. you HAVE to know there are tons of docs that overprescribe. I used to think people with medical marijuana cards had terminal illnesses only. Ha! That's naivety at it's finest.
Can we not fear monger against prescription drugs? To be honest, it is people who have this mentality towards prescription medication that made me embarrassed to be taking a mood stabilizer and other psych meds as needed. People would say oh- those aren't needed/over prescribed/you don't need them. I stupidly listened to them and after a few severe manic episodes that led to some very very dangerous and potentially deadly choices, decided being on meds was the safer option.
Moral- do not assume one is on medication because it is "over prescribed" and no one but ones doctor should be giving medication advice.
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nutmegoreo wrote: »And oh my God close supervision? You nwUltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
And oh my God, close supervision? You better damn well trust your doc with your life like Michael did. you HAVE to know there are tons of docs that overprescribe. I used to think people with medical marijuana cards had terminal illnesses only. Ha! That's naivety at it's finest.
Do you not feel there is some onus on the consumer to educate themselves? Ambien is a hypnotic sedative = not appropriate to be driving while taking it.
Absolutely overprescribing happens. It's, in part because people come into their offices demanding a quick fix for whatever their symptoms are, rather than doing the hard work of balanced diet, exercise, stretching, etc. It's much easier to take a pill and act like it's going to fix everything.
There are absolutely legitimate reasons for taking prescriptions in disease processes, but there needs to be some realistic expectations on the part of the consumer that meds in isolation from other interventions (physiotherapy, nutritional support, psychotherapy, etc.) will have a limited effect. These things won't always work in isolation. It requires time, patience, and diligence to find the right balances.
This is a very different situation from running to the local 'health food store' and take a bunch of random pills that claim to support weight loss, while not actually being subjected to any regulatory standards.
And it's not like it's difficult. Even the tv commercials say not to operate heavy machinery while on the medication and that it can induce sleep walking.
Exactly. Consumer education is readily available for prescription meds. There is no reason for people to be blindly taking meds without some understanding of the possible dangers. There needs to be some responsibility to educate yourself about what you are taking. The same cannot be said for weight loss supplements (regarding the availability of information).0 -
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diannethegeek wrote: »"All pills are not snake oil." That's the title of this thread. Did anyone else have to take a basic logic course in college? Because if "all pills are not snake oil" is true, then we can reason that there are no pills that are snake oil. Except that the OP seems to think that there are pills that are snake oil; she just believes that they're the kind prescribed by doctors and supplements are safe and okay. And now I'm confused and thinking that this thread is headed into very dangerous advice territory.
No logic, please. smh0 -
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Has anyone made any further progress into interpreting wth the OP is going on about? A discussion on supplements could have been interesting and informative, but other than shaking her head Aliens was the best part. Perhaps the most ridiuclous thread ive ever seen.0
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Has anyone made any further progress into interpreting wth the OP is going on about? A discussion on supplements could have been interesting and informative, but other than shaking her head Aliens was the best part. Perhaps the most ridiuclous thread ive ever seen.
Nope, OP has not clarified her point. smh0 -
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UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Kevin Bacon just confirmed. He will be bent over saying "Thank you sir may I have another"
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Wait. So the OP is enraged and chastising everyone who dare say that supplements are snake oil, but she openly trashes people who are taking medicine prescribed by their doctor?
And then the OP uses the example of Michael Jackson for the dangers of prescribed meds? You know the guy who shopped around until he found a doc more than happy to prescribe him whatever meds would leave him high as a f'in kite with no regard?
And then OP followed it up with the scary cautionary tale of her friend who got into a car accident on Ambien who couldn't be bothered to read the warning label or follow doctor's orders?
Ok, then. Gotcha.
Sincerely,
The High Priestess of the CICO Cult
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Wait. So the OP is enraged and chastising everyone who dare say that supplements are snake oil, but she openly trashes people who are taking medicine prescribed by their doctor?
And then the OP uses the example of Michael Jackson for the dangers of prescribed meds? You know the guy who shopped around until he found a doc more than happy to prescribe him whatever meds would leave him high as a f'in kite with no regard?
And then OP followed it up with the scary cautionary tale of her friend who got into a car accident on Ambien who couldn't be bothered to read the warning label or follow doctor's orders?
Ok, then. Gotcha.
Sincerely,
The High Priestess of the CICO Cult
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UltimateRBF wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »This turned into my favorite thread. It's been awhile.
There's one way to make it better ....
<Removed by MFP Moderators>
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At this point I have no effing clue what's going on and I'm pretty sure the OP is even more confused.
Another one here who has been on psych meds, needs meds for insomnia and will llikely be back on psych meds at some point. I also at no point thought medical marijauna was for the terminally ill only (that doesn't even make sense and I live in the UK where it's still illegal).
Another member of the CICO cult here because science. Science scienceing is my favourite thing.
EAT IT!0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »Has anyone made any further progress into interpreting wth the OP is going on about? A discussion on supplements could have been interesting and informative, but other than shaking her head Aliens was the best part. Perhaps the most ridiuclous thread ive ever seen.
I don't get why it's still up...I mean all these discussions are interesting so I'm glad it is. But when other things get poofed but this stays confuses me.
However like I said I'm happy this discussion continues.
It was left up so that it would make it to Friday, since this was obviously a mean people thread all along..,
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UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
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Alluminati wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »This turned into my favorite thread. It's been awhile.
There's one way to make it better ....
<Removed by MFP Moderators>
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I would like more logice, please. Perhaps a Venn Diagram of snake oil?
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WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »Has anyone made any further progress into interpreting wth the OP is going on about? A discussion on supplements could have been interesting and informative, but other than shaking her head Aliens was the best part. Perhaps the most ridiuclous thread ive ever seen.
I don't get why it's still up...I mean all these discussions are interesting so I'm glad it is. But when other things get poofed but this stays confuses me.
However like I said I'm happy this discussion continues.
It was left up so that it would make it to Friday, since this was obviously a mean people thread all along..,
I didn't get the memo..are mean people threads typically a Friday occurrence?
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This discussion has been closed.
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