All pills are not snake oil
Replies
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^There are far more above the line than I would have expected.0
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tincanonastring wrote: »I would like more logice, please. Perhaps a Venn Diagram of snake oil?
Where do peeps fall in there? I don't see them.0 -
I've alrrwThat's myNoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Yea that's my point. This thread wasn't about specific supplements people just somehow assumed that was my agenda.
Within the entire 15 pages of your rant, you never clearly defined what you mean by pills. And in those 15 pages, many of us explained which supplements work (and are proven by science - caffeine, creatine, whey, vitamins associated with deficiencies) and which ones don't work (green tea extracts, fat burners, etc..). The issue is, you continuously put all pills in categories. Which is wrong.
And at this point, I don't even know what the point of this thread is anymore as nothing was ever clearly defined. But if you want to clarify any of the 50 unanswered questions, we would love to listen.
I've already said i don't support any supplements. I don't know enough about them to make any claims. I don't claim to be an expert like people have said i do. I have had success with adipex and metabolife but don't recommend due to the risks and side effects. I think people could have a different approach to their advising if they really care about new people listening. I think it's reckless to comment on things you're not informed about.
Other than that what question do you feel is unanswered?
I think we're informed well-enough to say that taking diet pills (which are unregulated, rarely contain active ingredients, and can be potentially harmful) IS BUYING SNAKE OIL!
We have not received any specific supplement from you in which you are *supporting* or suggesting we "shouldn't assume is all the same", because THEY ARE ALL THE SAME.
Do you understand? That is the question we want answered. What specifically are you supporting? Just the general notion that supplements *may* not be *that* bad? We haven't seen any that say otherwise, nor has there been any proof of suggestion it is so.
What exactly are you trying to say?0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »Has anyone made any further progress into interpreting wth the OP is going on about? A discussion on supplements could have been interesting and informative, but other than shaking her head Aliens was the best part. Perhaps the most ridiuclous thread ive ever seen.
I don't get why it's still up...I mean all these discussions are interesting so I'm glad it is. But when other things get poofed but this stays confuses me.
However like I said I'm happy this discussion continues.
It was left up so that it would make it to Friday, since this was obviously a mean people thread all along..,
Bingo. Fridays wouldn't be the same around here without at least one thread calling us mean, bullys, or cico cult .. Because we believe in scientific facts , we're a cult. Seems legit . Lmao ! Happy Friday !0 -
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UltimateRBF wrote: »Has anyone made any further progress into interpreting wth the OP is going on about? A discussion on supplements could have been interesting and informative, but other than shaking her head Aliens was the best part. Perhaps the most ridiuclous thread ive ever seen.
I don't get why it's still up...I mean all these discussions are interesting so I'm glad it is. But when other things get poofed but this stays confuses me.
However like I said I'm happy this discussion continues.
Why does it keep getting reopened after being closed? That's the question. smh0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I would like more logice, please. Perhaps a Venn Diagram of snake oil?
Interesting that green tea is high on the "legit" scale...for cholesterol. I wonder in what doses and quantities it's useful for that at. Probably not at any doses that could be found over the counter or in a few glasses of tea daily. I'll have to do some researching on that.
Also very interesting, but completely unsurprising, is that "weight loss/control" doesn't come a single time in that infograph. Hmm, imagine that.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11897173
This is the study it's referring to.
CONCLUSION:
Consumption of green tea was associated with lower serum concentration of total cholesterol in Japanese healthy workers age 40-69 years; however, green tea consumption was unrelated to serum HDL-cholesterol and triglycerides.0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
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UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
Mmmm peep s'mores....0 -
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UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
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UltimateRBF wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I would like more logice, please. Perhaps a Venn Diagram of snake oil?
Interesting that green tea is high on the "legit" scale...for cholesterol. I wonder in what doses and quantities it's useful for that at. Probably not at any doses that could be found over the counter or in a few glasses of tea daily. I'll have to do some researching on that.
Also very interesting, but completely unsurprising, is that "weight loss/control" doesn't come a single time in that infograph. Hmm, imagine that.
I mentioned this in another post, but I recently became aware of an adverse event where an office could not stop patient bleeding after injection with a 26ga needle (a very small one). The patient was on an undisclosed "Green Tea regimen and drinking several cups a day - she had effectively removed her clotting factors.0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
I've got the beer!0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
Um, why is the chocolate on the grill? That's going to get messy...0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I would like more logice, please. Perhaps a Venn Diagram of snake oil?
Interesting that green tea is high on the "legit" scale...for cholesterol. I wonder in what doses and quantities it's useful for that at. Probably not at any doses that could be found over the counter or in a few glasses of tea daily. I'll have to do some researching on that.
Also very interesting, but completely unsurprising, is that "weight loss/control" doesn't come a single time in that infograph. Hmm, imagine that.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11897173
This is the study it's referring to.
CONCLUSION:
Consumption of green tea was associated with lower serum concentration of total cholesterol in Japanese healthy workers age 40-69 years; however, green tea consumption was unrelated to serum HDL-cholesterol and triglycerides.
Ah, if that's the strength of the evidence, I now understand why there are so many circles above the line.0 -
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UltimateRBF wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I would like more logice, please. Perhaps a Venn Diagram of snake oil?
Interesting that green tea is high on the "legit" scale...for cholesterol. I wonder in what doses and quantities it's useful for that at. Probably not at any doses that could be found over the counter or in a few glasses of tea daily. I'll have to do some researching on that.
Also very interesting, but completely unsurprising, is that "weight loss/control" doesn't come a single time in that infograph. Hmm, imagine that.
I mentioned this in another post, but I recently became aware of an adverse event where an office could not stop patient bleeding after injection with a 26ga needle (a very small one). The patient was on an undisclosed "Green Tea regimen and drinking several cups a day - she had effectively removed her clotting factors.
Yikes that must have been some megadoses of green tea. I didn't even know it could have anticoagulant properties, jeez.
That's also a good cautionary tale to tell your Dr about ALL supplements and meds you take-even the "natural" ones.
I've learned to ask several questions:
Are you taking any prescribed medications?
Are you self medicating?
Are you taking any supplements, vitamins, alternative/natural/organic medications?
Are you on any diets plans?
Amazing how many people don't count supplements as medicine.
0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I would like more logice, please. Perhaps a Venn Diagram of snake oil?
Interesting that green tea is high on the "legit" scale...for cholesterol. I wonder in what doses and quantities it's useful for that at. Probably not at any doses that could be found over the counter or in a few glasses of tea daily. I'll have to do some researching on that.
Also very interesting, but completely unsurprising, is that "weight loss/control" doesn't come a single time in that infograph. Hmm, imagine that.
I mentioned this in another post, but I recently became aware of an adverse event where an office could not stop patient bleeding after injection with a 26ga needle (a very small one). The patient was on an undisclosed "Green Tea regimen and drinking several cups a day - she had effectively removed her clotting factors.
Yikes that must have been some megadoses of green tea. I didn't even know it could have anticoagulant properties, jeez.
That's also a good cautionary tale to tell your Dr about ALL supplements and meds you take-even the "natural" ones.
I've learned to ask several questions:
Are you taking any prescribed medications?
Are you self medicating?
Are you taking any supplements, vitamins, alternative/natural/organic medications?
Are you on any diets plans?
Amazing how many people don't count supplements as medicine.
Many discount OTC meds as well. Scary considering how much damage can be done with acetaminophen and ibuprofen.0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
Tastes like chicken!
0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I would like more logice, please. Perhaps a Venn Diagram of snake oil?
Interesting that green tea is high on the "legit" scale...for cholesterol. I wonder in what doses and quantities it's useful for that at. Probably not at any doses that could be found over the counter or in a few glasses of tea daily. I'll have to do some researching on that.
Also very interesting, but completely unsurprising, is that "weight loss/control" doesn't come a single time in that infograph. Hmm, imagine that.
I mentioned this in another post, but I recently became aware of an adverse event where an office could not stop patient bleeding after injection with a 26ga needle (a very small one). The patient was on an undisclosed "Green Tea regimen and drinking several cups a day - she had effectively removed her clotting factors.
Yikes that must have been some megadoses of green tea. I didn't even know it could have anticoagulant properties, jeez.
That's also a good cautionary tale to tell your Dr about ALL supplements and meds you take-even the "natural" ones.
I've learned to ask several questions:
Are you taking any prescribed medications?
Are you self medicating?
Are you taking any supplements, vitamins, alternative/natural/organic medications?
Are you on any diets plans?
Amazing how many people don't count supplements as medicine.
Many discount OTC meds as well. Scary considering how much damage can be done with acetaminophen and ibuprofen.
The fda just decreased the amount of acetaminophen that a person should injest daily also.0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
So no sacrifice?0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
Um, why is the chocolate on the grill? That's going to get messy...
This. Clearly that person has never made Peep S'mores.
Never fear cult members. I shall be your guide to the magic of roasted sugary marshmallow goodness...0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »I have a background and education in pharmacy. I've seen some bad things happen from some supposedly harmless supplements. Also read some even scarier things about the shocking lack of real regulation in the supplement industry. I should try to dig up some stuff later when I'm not super busy and avoiding work
This. Some of those unregulated weight-loss supplements are hormone analogs or pre-cursors that can screw up your metabolism pretty badly (especially if they contain a steroid ring-structure).
Some of them are essentially metamucil. Fiber that fills up your stomach and makes you feel full so you eat less. You can get the same effect by just buying high-fiber foods, or a pill labeled as fiber, for less expense.
I'd like to point out that even prescription weight loss meds are not necessarily safe. Some of them have been implicated in pulmonary fibrosis, a condition which is deadly and has no cure other than a lung transplant.
Frankly I think for most people the health risks of staying fat are less than the health risks of the pills. Unless I were a candidate for stomach stapling (which means you have at least 2 serious medical conditions as a result of your weight), I would not take the risk of trying weight loss pills.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »"All pills are not snake oil." That's the title of this thread. Did anyone else have to take a basic logic course in college? Because if "all pills are not snake oil" is true, then we can reason that there are no pills that are snake oil. Except that the OP seems to think that there are pills that are snake oil; she just believes that they're the kind prescribed by doctors and supplements are safe and okay. And now I'm confused and thinking that this thread is headed into very dangerous advice territory.
No logic, please. smh
Oh, I love you! (for the gif)0 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
So no sacrifice?
You will have to come in order to see our sacrifice. I hear it could be a roasted frog , but I'm unsure. Just come and see , but don't forget to bring the chocolate . ( we will eat it in moderation and preach our cico lifestyle to one another )0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »I would like more logice, please. Perhaps a Venn Diagram of snake oil?
Interesting that green tea is high on the "legit" scale...for cholesterol. I wonder in what doses and quantities it's useful for that at. Probably not at any doses that could be found over the counter or in a few glasses of tea daily. I'll have to do some researching on that.
Also very interesting, but completely unsurprising, is that "weight loss/control" doesn't come a single time in that infograph. Hmm, imagine that.
I mentioned this in another post, but I recently became aware of an adverse event where an office could not stop patient bleeding after injection with a 26ga needle (a very small one). The patient was on an undisclosed "Green Tea regimen and drinking several cups a day - she had effectively removed her clotting factors.
Yikes that must have been some megadoses of green tea. I didn't even know it could have anticoagulant properties, jeez.
That's also a good cautionary tale to tell your Dr about ALL supplements and meds you take-even the "natural" ones.
I've learned to ask several questions:
Are you taking any prescribed medications?
Are you self medicating?
Are you taking any supplements, vitamins, alternative/natural/organic medications?
Are you on any diets plans?
Amazing how many people don't count supplements as medicine.
Many discount OTC meds as well. Scary considering how much damage can be done with acetaminophen and ibuprofen.
The fda just decreased the amount of acetaminophen that a person should injest daily also.
I tried a search for that information, but it is showing a drop to 4000mg/day as the cap changed in 2014. Has there been something more recent?
I had a diabetic patient shut down her kidneys staying within the suggested limits on ibuprofen.
I personally had lowered kidney function due to NSAID use at a lower than acceptable limit, but over a four month time period. My doc didn't even want to test it, but I was persistence.
Many people think that as long as they stay within the daily limit it's fine, but don't consider other sources of the drug, or forget that there is also a limit on the number of consecutive days for which it should be taken.0 -
Also, didn't the OP use some vague example of someone asking a question vaguely related to a medication for liver disease being told "everything is just snake oil" or "there's no magic pill"?
Because now OP is trashing medically proven pills, especially sedatives and mood stabilizers and the like. Because reasons.
I still don't think I'm as confused as OP, though.0
This discussion has been closed.
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