All pills are not snake oil
Replies
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Also, didn't the OP use some vague example of someone asking a question vaguely related to a medication for liver disease being told "everything is just snake oil" or "there's no magic pill"?
Because now OP is trashing medically proven pills, especially sedatives and mood stabilizers and the like. Because reasons.
I still don't think I'm as confused as OP, though.
So if it's legal and prescribed you think there can't be anything wrong with it?!?!
That's why you read all of that lovely paperwork the pharmacist sends along with the medication and take it properly as prescribed. Or maybe I'm the weird one who reads all of the information available before taking a new medication. How else are you going to know if you can mix it with alcohol and peeps, after all. SMH0 -
Gosh, I just can't IMAGINE who would have been throwing around phrases like "CICO cult". Really.
Yes, indeed, that group of folks who acknowledge that weight loss is about eating less than you burn is DANGEROUS and CULTLIKE! Be careful! And omg if they discourage you from spending money on your spirulina or whatever, they are just meanies and bullies.
The OP's understanding of prescription medications from Xanax to Methadone is obviously just as comprehensive as her understanding of supplements. At least while she's racking up a post history comprised mostly of complaining about and blaming Everyone Else for Everything, this thread has generated some funny and even informative exchanges between people who don't feel like they need to hide behind PMs
I suppose u think methadone cures heroin addiction? Come hang out in flint, mi at a methadone clinic. Follow a family where the mom is on methadone for about one month and see what your thoughts are. You have no idea what experience and knowledge i have but you're showing your lack of it now.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »I've alrrwThat's myNoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Yea that's my point. This thread wasn't about specific supplements people just somehow assumed that was my agenda.
Within the entire 15 pages of your rant, you never clearly defined what you mean by pills. And in those 15 pages, many of us explained which supplements work (and are proven by science - caffeine, creatine, whey, vitamins associated with deficiencies) and which ones don't work (green tea extracts, fat burners, etc..). The issue is, you continuously put all pills in categories. Which is wrong.
And at this point, I don't even know what the point of this thread is anymore as nothing was ever clearly defined. But if you want to clarify any of the 50 unanswered questions, we would love to listen.
I've already said i don't support any supplements. I don't know enough about them to make any claims. I don't claim to be an expert like people have said i do. I have had success with adipex and metabolife but don't recommend due to the risks and side effects. I think people could have a different approach to their advising if they really care about new people listening. I think it's reckless to comment on things you're not informed about.
Other than that what question do you feel is unanswered?
I think we're informed well-enough to say that taking diet pills (which are unregulated, rarely contain active ingredients, and can be potentially harmful) IS BUYING SNAKE OIL!
We have not received any specific supplement from you in which you are *supporting* or suggesting we "shouldn't assume is all the same", because THEY ARE ALL THE SAME.
Do you understand? That is the question we want answered. What specifically are you supporting? Just the general notion that supplements *may* not be *that* bad? We haven't seen any that say otherwise, nor has there been any proof of suggestion it is so.
What exactly are you trying to say?
I just said I'm not supporting any supplement so how is that unanswered?0 -
You just think people should be nicer in telling people that they're wasting their time, money, and possibly health on these supplements? Is that about it?I've alrrwThat's myNoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Yea that's my point. This thread wasn't about specific supplements people just somehow assumed that was my agenda.
Within the entire 15 pages of your rant, you never clearly defined what you mean by pills. And in those 15 pages, many of us explained which supplements work (and are proven by science - caffeine, creatine, whey, vitamins associated with deficiencies) and which ones don't work (green tea extracts, fat burners, etc..). The issue is, you continuously put all pills in categories. Which is wrong.
And at this point, I don't even know what the point of this thread is anymore as nothing was ever clearly defined. But if you want to clarify any of the 50 unanswered questions, we would love to listen.
I've already said i don't support any supplements. I don't know enough about them to make any claims. I don't claim to be an expert like people have said i do. I have had success with adipex and metabolife but don't recommend due to the risks and side effects. I think people could have a different approach to their advising if they really care about new people listening. I think it's reckless to comment on things you're not informed about.
Other than that what question do you feel is unanswered?
Ummm...
Did i comment supprting ANY supplements? Smh
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rainbowbow wrote: »I've alrrwThat's myNoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Yea that's my point. This thread wasn't about specific supplements people just somehow assumed that was my agenda.
Within the entire 15 pages of your rant, you never clearly defined what you mean by pills. And in those 15 pages, many of us explained which supplements work (and are proven by science - caffeine, creatine, whey, vitamins associated with deficiencies) and which ones don't work (green tea extracts, fat burners, etc..). The issue is, you continuously put all pills in categories. Which is wrong.
And at this point, I don't even know what the point of this thread is anymore as nothing was ever clearly defined. But if you want to clarify any of the 50 unanswered questions, we would love to listen.
I've already said i don't support any supplements. I don't know enough about them to make any claims. I don't claim to be an expert like people have said i do. I have had success with adipex and metabolife but don't recommend due to the risks and side effects. I think people could have a different approach to their advising if they really care about new people listening. I think it's reckless to comment on things you're not informed about.
Other than that what question do you feel is unanswered?
I think we're informed well-enough to say that taking diet pills (which are unregulated, rarely contain active ingredients, and can be potentially harmful) IS BUYING SNAKE OIL!
We have not received any specific supplement from you in which you are *supporting* or suggesting we "shouldn't assume is all the same", because THEY ARE ALL THE SAME.
Do you understand? That is the question we want answered. What specifically are you supporting? Just the general notion that supplements *may* not be *that* bad? We haven't seen any that say otherwise, nor has there been any proof of suggestion it is so.
What exactly are you trying to say?
I just said I'm not supporting any supplement so how is that unanswered?
Then this a mean people thread because you are talking in circles.
SMH0 -
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Has anyone made any further progress into interpreting wth the OP is going on about? A discussion on supplements could have been interesting and informative, but other than shaking her head Aliens was the best part. Perhaps the most ridiuclous thread ive ever seen.
Nope, OP has not clarified her point. smh
Only like 5 times -_-0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.UltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
You can be disturbed if you want to. The number of prescription meds my brother was given for lupus and the damage it caused is even more disturbing. So is the accident my friend got in when she didn't know she was driving while on ambien. And so is the fact that people think if it's prescribed it's automatically ok. Michael Jackson thought the same thing.
What? Did she not know she was driving? Did she not know she was on Ambien?
Nevermind. I'm now convinced you are just completely making stuff up.
She blacked out. Like sleep walking. Good grief. Even though u believe Googles only purpose is to support YOUR argument u could easily find similar stories if u Googled ambien horror stories smh
Are... are you blaming her inability to follow instructions on the medication?0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »I've alrrwThat's myNoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Yea that's my point. This thread wasn't about specific supplements people just somehow assumed that was my agenda.
Within the entire 15 pages of your rant, you never clearly defined what you mean by pills. And in those 15 pages, many of us explained which supplements work (and are proven by science - caffeine, creatine, whey, vitamins associated with deficiencies) and which ones don't work (green tea extracts, fat burners, etc..). The issue is, you continuously put all pills in categories. Which is wrong.
And at this point, I don't even know what the point of this thread is anymore as nothing was ever clearly defined. But if you want to clarify any of the 50 unanswered questions, we would love to listen.
I've already said i don't support any supplements. I don't know enough about them to make any claims. I don't claim to be an expert like people have said i do. I have had success with adipex and metabolife but don't recommend due to the risks and side effects. I think people could have a different approach to their advising if they really care about new people listening. I think it's reckless to comment on things you're not informed about.
Other than that what question do you feel is unanswered?
I think we're informed well-enough to say that taking diet pills (which are unregulated, rarely contain active ingredients, and can be potentially harmful) IS BUYING SNAKE OIL!
We have not received any specific supplement from you in which you are *supporting* or suggesting we "shouldn't assume is all the same", because THEY ARE ALL THE SAME.
Do you understand? That is the question we want answered. What specifically are you supporting? Just the general notion that supplements *may* not be *that* bad? We haven't seen any that say otherwise, nor has there been any proof of suggestion it is so.
What exactly are you trying to say?
I just said I'm not supporting any supplement so how is that unanswered?
Really? So this isn't from your opening gambit?I realize there are no pills that you eat whatever you want and live on the couch and lose 50 pounds a day. But some supplements might effectively curb your appetite, or give you the energy to work out, etc.0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »And oh my God close supervision? You nwUltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
And oh my God, close supervision? You better damn well trust your doc with your life like Michael did. you HAVE to know there are tons of docs that overprescribe. I used to think people with medical marijuana cards had terminal illnesses only. Ha! That's naivety at it's finest.
Do you not feel there is some onus on the consumer to educate themselves? Ambien is a hypnotic sedative = not appropriate to be driving while taking it.
Absolutely overprescribing happens. It's, in part because people come into their offices demanding a quick fix for whatever their symptoms are, rather than doing the hard work of balanced diet, exercise, stretching, etc. It's much easier to take a pill and act like it's going to fix everything.
There are absolutely legitimate reasons for taking prescriptions in disease processes, but there needs to be some realistic expectations on the part of the consumer that meds in isolation from other interventions (physiotherapy, nutritional support, psychotherapy, etc.) will have a limited effect. These things won't always work in isolation. It requires time, patience, and diligence to find the right balances.
This is a very different situation from running to the local 'health food store' and take a bunch of random pills that claim to support weight loss, while not actually being subjected to any regulatory standards.
And it's not like it's difficult. Even the tv commercials say not to operate heavy machinery while on the medication and that it can induce sleep walking.
Exactly. Consumer education is readily available for prescription meds. There is no reason for people to be blindly taking meds without some understanding of the possible dangers. There needs to be some responsibility to educate yourself about what you are taking. The same cannot be said for weight loss supplements (regarding the availability of information).
Except when people talk about supplements u jump on them and say they're inherently bad because u dont know enough about them. But prescriptions u say u know they're bad but it's ok because a doctor told u they were bad and is watching to make sure they're not TOO bad. People should just open their minds a bit. The same "educate yourself about what u are taking applies to EVERYTHING". And people need to realize that MANY doctors overprescribe Michael Jackson and other "rich celebrities" aren't the only examples of that he's just a good example because everyone knows about it.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.UltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
You can be disturbed if you want to. The number of prescription meds my brother was given for lupus and the damage it caused is even more disturbing. So is the accident my friend got in when she didn't know she was driving while on ambien. And so is the fact that people think if it's prescribed it's automatically ok. Michael Jackson thought the same thing.
What? Did she not know she was driving? Did she not know she was on Ambien?
Nevermind. I'm now convinced you are just completely making stuff up.
She blacked out. Like sleep walking. Good grief. Even though u believe Googles only purpose is to support YOUR argument u could easily find similar stories if u Googled ambien horror stories smh
Are... are you blaming her inability to follow instructions on the medication?
She drove while sleep walking. Ugh go ahead and take ambien if you love it so much. As long as you don't live near me in michigan.0 -
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Are we on kitty gifs yet?0 -
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nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
Ahhh....you are THAT kind of attorney. Now everything makes sense. SMH.
I think an attorney would put together a more cogent argument. Then again, I once sat on a jury where the main defense was a red herring/smoke screen. They presented a different argument which the prosecution never successfully addressed because they were incompetent. It was enough to plant doubt and did the job.
So good job OP. You realized your supplements argument was a non-starter, then switched over to prescription drugs. You're still not presenting a winning case since you have yet to make any legitimate point the jury can hang its hat on.
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I think we're informed well-enough to say that taking diet pills (which are unregulated, rarely contain active ingredients, and can be potentially harmful) IS BUYING SNAKE OIL!
We have not received any specific supplement from you in which you are *supporting* or suggesting we "shouldn't assume is all the same", because THEY ARE ALL THE SAME.
Do you understand? That is the question we want answered. What specifically are you supporting? Just the general notion that supplements *may* not be *that* bad? We haven't seen any that say otherwise, nor has there been any proof of suggestion it is so.
What exactly are you trying to say?I just said I'm not supporting any supplement so how is that unanswered?
"I realize there are no pills that you eat whatever you want and live on the couch and lose 50 pounds a day. But some supplements might effectively curb your appetite, or give you the energy to work out, etc. and even if it is a placebo effect on some of them, so what? If you're eating better and working out more and blame the pill, what's the harm unless it's actually dangerous. I think posting that a supplement is snake oil without knowing anything about it is just as reckless as promoting something you know nothing about. Supplements obviously work for some people. I think it makes more sense to talk about specific research and what the pros and cons and potential dangers are rather than just jumping on people whenever they mention any sort of pill. "
Because of the entire topic that you posted. WHAT0 -
UltimateRBF wrote: »Also, didn't the OP use some vague example of someone asking a question vaguely related to a medication for liver disease being told "everything is just snake oil" or "there's no magic pill"?
Because now OP is trashing medically proven pills, especially sedatives and mood stabilizers and the like. Because reasons. Michael Jackson.
I still don't think I'm as confused as OP, though.
Fixed that for you
oooh, thanks!0 -
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nutmegoreo wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »And oh my God close supervision? You nwUltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
And oh my God, close supervision? You better damn well trust your doc with your life like Michael did. you HAVE to know there are tons of docs that overprescribe. I used to think people with medical marijuana cards had terminal illnesses only. Ha! That's naivety at it's finest.
Do you not feel there is some onus on the consumer to educate themselves? Ambien is a hypnotic sedative = not appropriate to be driving while taking it.
Absolutely overprescribing happens. It's, in part because people come into their offices demanding a quick fix for whatever their symptoms are, rather than doing the hard work of balanced diet, exercise, stretching, etc. It's much easier to take a pill and act like it's going to fix everything.
There are absolutely legitimate reasons for taking prescriptions in disease processes, but there needs to be some realistic expectations on the part of the consumer that meds in isolation from other interventions (physiotherapy, nutritional support, psychotherapy, etc.) will have a limited effect. These things won't always work in isolation. It requires time, patience, and diligence to find the right balances.
This is a very different situation from running to the local 'health food store' and take a bunch of random pills that claim to support weight loss, while not actually being subjected to any regulatory standards.
And it's not like it's difficult. Even the tv commercials say not to operate heavy machinery while on the medication and that it can induce sleep walking.
Exactly. Consumer education is readily available for prescription meds. There is no reason for people to be blindly taking meds without some understanding of the possible dangers. There needs to be some responsibility to educate yourself about what you are taking. The same cannot be said for weight loss supplements (regarding the availability of information).
Except when people talk about supplements u jump on them and say they're inherently bad because u dont know enough about them. But prescriptions u say u know they're bad but it's ok because a doctor told u they were bad and is watching to make sure they're not TOO bad. People should just open their minds a bit. The same "educate yourself about what u are taking applies to EVERYTHING". And people need to realize that MANY doctors overprescribe Michael Jackson and other "rich celebrities" aren't the only examples of that he's just a good example because everyone knows about it.
I have said absolutely none of those things. I have never jumped into a thread where someone is talking about supplements (I guess this thread would count as first time), with the exception of people who are asking about potassium supplementation, because supplementation without doctor supervision can lead to cardiac dysrhythmias. Potassium is not required on labels, so I recommend people see their doctors before taking potassium supplements to make sure they are actually deficient. I am saying that people need to be responsible for educating themselves to make informed decisions in conjunction with their health care team members, regardless of what they are taking, be it prescription, over the counter, or alternative health treatments. Many of these things can interfere with the others.
In my previous statement, I specifically said that over prescription occurs. As a reminder of my previous statement:Do you not feel there is some onus on the consumer to educate themselves? Ambien is a hypnotic sedative = not appropriate to be driving while taking it.
Absolutely overprescribing happens. It's, in part because people come into their offices demanding a quick fix for whatever their symptoms are, rather than doing the hard work of balanced diet, exercise, stretching, etc. It's much easier to take a pill and act like it's going to fix everything.
There are absolutely legitimate reasons for taking prescriptions in disease processes, but there needs to be some realistic expectations on the part of the consumer that meds in isolation from other interventions (physiotherapy, nutritional support, psychotherapy, etc.) will have a limited effect. These things won't always work in isolation. It requires time, patience, and diligence to find the right balances.
This is a very different situation from running to the local 'health food store' and take a bunch of random pills that claim to support weight loss, while not actually being subjected to any regulatory standards.
Additionally, I have never said anything about Michael Jackson because frankly I just don't care. Please review who it is YOU are ascribing all of these words to, because they did not come from me.0 -
Also, didn't the OP use some vague example of someone asking a question vaguely related to a medication for liver disease being told "everything is just snake oil" or "there's no magic pill"?
Because now OP is trashing medically proven pills, especially sedatives and mood stabilizers and the like. Because reasons.
I still don't think I'm as confused as OP, though.
So if it's legal and prescribed you think there can't be anything wrong with it?!?!
I didn't say anything, one way or the other, about anything being wrong with it. I just pointed out the inconsistency of your arguments. You read the rest into it.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.UltimateRBF wrote: »discretekim wrote: »I think the problem is many of them are dangerous and people don't always realize it as they are not regulated by the Fda. Why do they have jaundice warnings?? A healthy diet is much safer. And does work. People can do suppliments but they should be adequately informed. And why take the risk if you don't need to
Most if the drugs you see class actions for were sold to, i mean regulated by, the fda at one point. Frankly I'd be less bothered by a loved one taking green tea extract than adipex, xanax, ambien, methadone, dilaudid, etc. They push prescription pills like mad with horrible side effects.
Xanax, Ambien, methadone, Dilaudid and the like have risks, absolutely. They are prescribed under a Dr's close supervision.
But they're actual medications that have been actually proven to work for treating actual legitimate serious health conditions.
The fact you'd rather see a family member waste their time with useless green tea pills or something but wouldn't want them to see relief from say, crippling anxiety or insomnia or severe pain or opiate addiction because-Oh No, Big Pharma!
Is disturbing.
You can be disturbed if you want to. The number of prescription meds my brother was given for lupus and the damage it caused is even more disturbing. So is the accident my friend got in when she didn't know she was driving while on ambien. And so is the fact that people think if it's prescribed it's automatically ok. Michael Jackson thought the same thing.
What? Did she not know she was driving? Did she not know she was on Ambien?
Nevermind. I'm now convinced you are just completely making stuff up.
She blacked out. Like sleep walking. Good grief. Even though u believe Googles only purpose is to support YOUR argument u could easily find similar stories if u Googled ambien horror stories smh
Are... are you blaming her inability to follow instructions on the medication?
She drove while sleep walking. Ugh go ahead and take ambien if you love it so much. As long as you don't live near me in michigan.
I took ambien about 5 years ago, and IIRC, that was listed as a known potential side effect (along with sleep-eating and other things). You know what I did? Took precautions to make sure I wasn't able to actually get in my car during my sleep.
Pretty much all prescribed medications have known potential side effects. That is why the doctor and patient should thoughtfully consider possible risks vs benefits. That's what I have had to do every time we switch medications. But in the supplement industry, there really isn't any discussion of the two, the peddlers just tell their "clients" to take it and all their problems will be solved.0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
Ahhh....you are THAT kind of attorney. Now everything makes sense. SMH.
Yeah, this seems to be promoting Shakespeare's idea. (Henry VI part II: IV,ii,73)0 -
Med mal and products liability require a little more than that, though.nutmegoreo wrote: »thorsmom01 wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »UltimateRBF wrote: »NoIdea101NoIdea wrote: »
So if a new member comes here and posts "hey, guys, I'm new to the boards, looking for some support on this journey. I've had some success with xyz but it made me to jittery. My friend recommended abc and I'm wondering if anyone has tried it"
You think saying "there are no magic pills" is better than actually having a discussion about abc? And you think being sarcastic and condescending towards new posters is a good style for people here to learn? If you do, fine we disagree. If you don't then why are you arguing with me? I didn't ask for a supplement lesson.
How is saying "abc doesn't work, save your money", condescending?
If they followed your method, they'd be upset by being told abc doesn't work, you can lose weight for free just by eating at a deficit.
Plus, we have had these conversations so, so many times. Would it also be condescending to tell the OP to just use the search function? Can guarantee that none of our opinions on the several hundred threads about it would have changed!
I don't think there's in conversation in here that hasn't been had. But you're dammed if you do damned if you don't unless you're posting a "how hot is the person above you" thread apparently. If you post on an old topic they're like "we had this conversation already look it up" but if you do that and comment they're like "why are you reopening this old thread" smh apparently the boards have to go only the exact way certain people say.
I take solace in all the private messages from people, which I just discovered you can get today, who agree with me and have been put off by the bullying and negative attitudes. "Cico cult" as someone called it, that's a new one but made me laugh. But wouldn't encourage them to post their concerns publicly they know they'll just be called obese snake oil salesman or made up friends. It's okay though. People are more comfortable around like minded people and it's easier to push away people who disagree than to be accepting of differences so i can't expect better from such a large group.
There isn't a CICO cult. CICO is a mathematical equation that all bodies abide by. But what many of us understand, that science suggest that most pills are absolutely worthless. If you actually posted a thread regarding specific supplements or provided any type of scientific proof, this thread would be much different.
Oh there's totally a cult. Didn't you get the group text? We're doing a ceremony at midnight tonight under the light of the moon. Bring cookies.
Don't forget the goat.
I was thinking of a different sacrificial animal.
Lamb? Virgin? Marshmallow Peep?
All cico cult members , we meet at midnight tonight. Bring peeps And chocolate we can eat at a deficit and lose weight.
Can I be a junior member? I'm not around much, but I can bring Skittles. Good for repelling tigers and bears (and maybe lions, oh my), and I suspect a potential step down from the PeepCleanse.VintageFeline wrote: »Is the use of "SMH" like some sort of internet tourettes?
Jozz, I don't think you even know what your original point was at this stage. SMH.
I just listed what my points were less than an hour ago. But the responses of course went off track and my disdain for doctors who over prescribe and my experiences came out. Of course people think there's a pill for everything and think if their doc prescribed it then it's the bees knees but hey I'm an attorney so I can make lots of money off of that belief.
I guess your problem here is that you weren't able to strike all the people with brainwaves.
0 -
I've watched a lot of law and order. Um, pills bad? Rapists are worse though (long live svu!)
Smh0 -
I think I know why there's so much smh in this thread. The OP is constantly changing her arguments back and forth...back and forth....smh0
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So who's going to start a CICO cult meeting thread?0
This discussion has been closed.
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