Opinions on HIGH fat, MODERATE protein, LOW carb diet!

neanderthin

for those eating high fat like butter, full fat milk, etc. - my question is -

What about the thing the doctors tell us about clogging our arteries with all this fat? I understand that comes from too much saturated fat.

so i dont get how people can claim this is a good thing. Please explain.

Saturated fat doesn't clog arteries? How CAN a saturated fat clog anything at human body temperature?

This (at least for the humor).

Ever handle coconut oil? It's 92% saturated fat, and guess what? It has a melting point of about 70 degrees.

That said, it's pretty simple - the evidence doesn't actually link saturated fat intake to athlerosclerosis (clogged arteries). The vast majority of that whole thing is based on Ancel Keyes's 7 Countries Study, which was highly, highly, cherry-picked (like, he only used the countries that had a less fat = less CVD correlation and ignored the 21 others that didn't show such a correlation and in some cases showed the opposite correlation of more fat = less CVD).

In reality, our ancestors in many places ate as much as 90% of calories from fat, most of which from animal sources. This puts their saturated fat values in the ballpark of 25-30% of total calorie intake (as opposed to the current recommendations of less than 10%). (source: http://www.gnolls.org/715/ )

Also, check out the so-called Inuit Paradox - on their ancestral diet of pretty much just arctic animals (OMG! Nearly all fat!), they have a significantly lower rate of CVD than on a modern diet. You also see this in the Australian Aboriginal population, and the so-called "French Paradox".

Ironically, Stearic Acid, one of the most saturated of saturated fatty acids, has neutral to positive impact on serum levels. Several of the other fatty acids, such as Lauric, Myristic, and Palmitic, have been linked to higher LDL, but an improved HDL to LDL ratio (and evidence is starting to show that it's the ratio more than the raw number that's important, because HDL acts as a garbage collector for the LDL).

Agreed. I aim for 75-80% fat each day.

Stearic Acid is the fat in dark chocolate that people seem to recognize as a good saturated fat because it doesn't raise cholesterol levels. Another factoid is that myritric acid raised LDL the most, but that is in isolation. When consumed with stearic acid the effects are minimal to none and you'll always find stearic acid along with myrtric in the food chain.

Yup, when saturated fat replace other macros, especially carbohydrates the liver starts producing/replacing pattern B with pattern A lipoproteins. Small dense pattern B which interestingly are physically larger in size than pattern A and that's because within those lipoproteins there is a sh1t load of triglycerides with very little actual cholesterol, hence the term small dense. As you know lowering or replacing carbs especially refined carbs triglycerides drop like a rock and that's because the liver starts producing lipoproteins with less trigs and with more cholesterol and the reason LDL goes up.......it's measured in density but because they are pattern A they are actually less atherogenic. It appears that what really matters is the total amount of LDL particles a person has circulating. 2 people could have identical LDL reading with one person having 20,000 LDL particles and the other with 1500. This kind of information has been around for quite a while but changing how America eats by not restricting fat in general means a huge shift in agriculture and of course someone would have to admit they were wrong 40 years ago.....that isn't going to happen any time soon especially with the large institutions.......Harvard comes to mind that still perpetuate a low fat diet.

crandos

The thing is, I read that protein can also be turned into glucose, and fat can't, so by upping the fat and lowering protein, your body would more efficiently use your body fat for fuel

Sorry but this is Broscience... the human body doesn't function this way and you can't force it to change how it works.

Technically speaking, your body doesn't "burn" protein, glucose, OR fat as energy. The energy your cells actually use comes from breaking the chemical bonds of a molecule called ATP (Adenosine triphosphate), which happens during something known as the "Krebs cycle" that takes place at the cellular level, in the mitochondria of your cells. Your body can use all 3 dietary macronutrients, fat, protein, and carbohyrdates, to generate ATP molecules, so it really doesn't make much practical sense to think in terms of whether your body turns protein into glucose, or into fat, etc.

Carbs
This is the fastest, most metabolically efficient source of glycogen replacement for your body. However it is also the fastest to be stored as fat if ingested in excess. Depending on your fitness goals the macro % will vary.

Protein
Protein is the human body's second choice for glycogen replenishment. Why? Because it takes less energy to process protein than fat (it takes 4 cals of energy to process 1g of protein). This is why doing just pure cardio actually burns muscle tissue. Why do you think marathoners are usually so thin? It's more efficient for the body to convert muscle proteins into ATP than fat stores (and the body is all about efficiency).

Protein has a single purpose in your body... to build and repair damaged muscle. This is why bodybuilders and power-lifters consume so much protein. They are constantly micro-tearing the muscle fibers and the protein they consume is used to repair and grow new muscle fibers. Again, depending on your fitness goals your macro % will vary, but a standard rule of thumb is 1g per 1 pound of lean body weight. This is the problem most fall into... they forget it's LEAN body weight not total body weight.

Fat
Fat has gotten a bad rap. Sad too because fat is essential for healthy neurological function. There's a reason you get into a 'fog' when on a low fat diet. When you restrict the body's intake of healthy fats, your brain cannot function at it's optimal level. This is where the bodybuilding stereotype of 'meathead' comes from. Bodybuilders are on a very low fat diet when training for a show and as they restrict their fat intake more and more they tend to 'get stupid'... it's just a physiological fact and it will happen to anyone, not just the lunks. On the flip side... ever hear the saying "fish is brain food"? Well it's true. Fish/seafood are filled with Omega 3/6/9 fats. Arguably the best fats to consume. Since fats are essential for neurological efficiency the more fish you eat the better for your brain. Does it make you 'smarter'? Well, no. But it does allow your brain to function at its peak levels. The downside to fat is that it is the least efficient source of glycogen replenishment and therefore will always be the body's last choice for energy. It takes 9 calories to burn 1g of body fat versus the 4 calories for 1g of protein. Your macro % will vary but should never go above 30%.

Now all this being said, this is why it is crucial to have some sort of strength training in your workout regimen. If you are using your muscle groups to perform 'work' your body will know this and says to itself, "Hey, this guy/girl is asking us to perform these lifting tasks daily. That's cool, but now he/she wants us to go for a long run. Okay, well since we need all the muscle we can get for the work we are doing every day we can't burn the muscle for energy so let's use the carbs. Oh crap, no carbs available? Ok then, guess we have to use the fat stores, ugh." I know it sounds silly, but that's how it works for most people. It's also why it takes forever to lose actual body fat.

So what's the best 'diet' for you? As others will tell you, it completely depends on your goals and your fitness regimen. Speaking for myself... I do CrossFit 5 days/week combined with Strength Training 3 days/week. I'm also currently switching to a Paleo diet and I'm a Type 2 Diabetic. The recommended macros for the average CrossFitter is 40C/30P/30F. This is fine for most people but with MY goals and my Diabetes I must keep my carbs at a lower level to avoid increased blood glucose levels. I also want to promote fat loss but maintain/build lean muscle. So I have dialed my macros to 35C/45P/20F, but I also keep my carbs under 100g/day as my cap. I also adjust them based on my activity level on the weekends. Since I use my weekends as my rest days I reduce my caloric intake slightly and eat less protein, but slightly more carbs and fats to help replenish. Play around with your percentages until you find where you feel energized, alert, and sharp... and you are still accomplishing your fitness goals.

Sorry this was so long, but I really hate broscience and don't want to see anyone get derailed.

wow thanks for this +1post

KatLifter

The thing is, I read that protein can also be turned into glucose, and fat can't, so by upping the fat and lowering protein, your body would more efficiently use your body fat for fuel

Sorry but this is Broscience... the human body doesn't function this way and you can't force it to change how it works.

Technically speaking, your body doesn't "burn" protein, glucose, OR fat as energy. The energy your cells actually use comes from breaking the chemical bonds of a molecule called ATP (Adenosine triphosphate), which happens during something known as the "Krebs cycle" that takes place at the cellular level, in the mitochondria of your cells. Your body can use all 3 dietary macronutrients, fat, protein, and carbohyrdates, to generate ATP molecules, so it really doesn't make much practical sense to think in terms of whether your body turns protein into glucose, or into fat, etc.

Carbs
This is the fastest, most metabolically efficient source of glycogen replacement for your body. However it is also the fastest to be stored as fat if ingested in excess. Depending on your fitness goals the macro % will vary.

Protein
Protein is the human body's second choice for glycogen replenishment. Why? Because it takes less energy to process protein than fat (it takes 4 cals of energy to process 1g of protein). This is why doing just pure cardio actually burns muscle tissue. Why do you think marathoners are usually so thin? It's more efficient for the body to convert muscle proteins into ATP than fat stores (and the body is all about efficiency).

Protein has a single purpose in your body... to build and repair damaged muscle. This is why bodybuilders and power-lifters consume so much protein. They are constantly micro-tearing the muscle fibers and the protein they consume is used to repair and grow new muscle fibers. Again, depending on your fitness goals your macro % will vary, but a standard rule of thumb is 1g per 1 pound of lean body weight. This is the problem most fall into... they forget it's LEAN body weight not total body weight.

Fat
Fat has gotten a bad rap. Sad too because fat is essential for healthy neurological function. There's a reason you get into a 'fog' when on a low fat diet. When you restrict the body's intake of healthy fats, your brain cannot function at it's optimal level. This is where the bodybuilding stereotype of 'meathead' comes from. Bodybuilders are on a very low fat diet when training for a show and as they restrict their fat intake more and more they tend to 'get stupid'... it's just a physiological fact and it will happen to anyone, not just the lunks. On the flip side... ever hear the saying "fish is brain food"? Well it's true. Fish/seafood are filled with Omega 3/6/9 fats. Arguably the best fats to consume. Since fats are essential for neurological efficiency the more fish you eat the better for your brain. Does it make you 'smarter'? Well, no. But it does allow your brain to function at its peak levels. The downside to fat is that it is the least efficient source of glycogen replenishment and therefore will always be the body's last choice for energy. It takes 9 calories to burn 1g of body fat versus the 4 calories for 1g of protein. Your macro % will vary but should never go above 30%.

Now all this being said, this is why it is crucial to have some sort of strength training in your workout regimen. If you are using your muscle groups to perform 'work' your body will know this and says to itself, "Hey, this guy/girl is asking us to perform these lifting tasks daily. That's cool, but now he/she wants us to go for a long run. Okay, well since we need all the muscle we can get for the work we are doing every day we can't burn the muscle for energy so let's use the carbs. Oh crap, no carbs available? Ok then, guess we have to use the fat stores, ugh." I know it sounds silly, but that's how it works for most people. It's also why it takes forever to lose actual body fat.

So what's the best 'diet' for you? As others will tell you, it completely depends on your goals and your fitness regimen. Speaking for myself... I do CrossFit 5 days/week combined with Strength Training 3 days/week. I'm also currently switching to a Paleo diet and I'm a Type 2 Diabetic. The recommended macros for the average CrossFitter is 40C/30P/30F. This is fine for most people but with MY goals and my Diabetes I must keep my carbs at a lower level to avoid increased blood glucose levels. I also want to promote fat loss but maintain/build lean muscle. So I have dialed my macros to 35C/45P/20F, but I also keep my carbs under 100g/day as my cap. I also adjust them based on my activity level on the weekends. Since I use my weekends as my rest days I reduce my caloric intake slightly and eat less protein, but slightly more carbs and fats to help replenish. Play around with your percentages until you find where you feel energized, alert, and sharp... and you are still accomplishing your fitness goals.

Sorry this was so long, but I really hate broscience and don't want to see anyone get derailed.

What is your source for this information. particularly saying for fat,

Your [fat] macro % will vary but should never go above 30%.

Scubanana7

I no scientist, armed with data. All I know is that by going LC HF, I lost 30 pounds in 4 months and DROPPED my CHOLESTROL from 202 to 162.

Before that, it took over a year to lose the FIRST 30 pounds and my cholestrol slowly climbed that entire time.

Don't need science to tell me what works for me. Oh, and I don't CHEAT like I used to cuz I am happy and full on eating delicious food.

I am 58, diabetic, and hypothryoid. It took many different type of diets to find out what worked best for me. I found it. I am happy with it, I FEEL GREAT, I work out VERY hard (1 hr, 40 minutes today) and I can stick with it. That is all the science I need. I will NEVER eat wheat again. I will NEVER eat a lot of carbs again. I will add more fruits (berries, melon, apple) and a few moderate carb veges when my goal is reached.

I am always so Amazed at the folks who want to tell me I am eating wrong. My numbers don't lie. My "feeling great" is no lie.
To each his own and don't knock it if you haven't tried it. I TRIED IT YOUR WAY.

lpina2mi

It is THE ANSWER for some. For me, higher fat (30-35%) has been key. Higher than that seems to work against me,

Debbiedebbiey

Noob bump

Blizaine

High Fat, Mod Pro, Low Carb has worked wonders for me. I am always full and I get to eat more cals than I did before. I would have to eat about 1800-2000 to maintain my weight on a low fat "ballanced" diet. On this diet I'm able to maintain weight at 2600 calories. A calorie is definitely not a calorie. And fat is far more satiating to begin with. So I'm never hungry. My fat macro is 75%, pro is 20%, carb is 5%. Plus my blood pressure is as low as it's ever been (107/70).

Ampierce

Bump, this is the lifestyle I live and I feel better and am healthier. :happy:

choijanro

For my macros,, 60% protein , 20% carbs & 20% healthy fats

For my micros,, 100% or 80% like vitamins,minerals,etc

kmstieg

Great thread....bump for later. I too love this WOE.

hookilau

Keto was unhealthy for me - I was tired all the time, struggled at work, loss muscle mass and my gym work outs - cardio and strength training were affected. Low carb is generally considered to be less than 100g. I was ok with this but less than 50g affected me badly

From what I've read, the amount of carbs can vary from person to person. It sounds to me as though it was either too low for you or LC just isn't something you would thrive on. I am doing really well on less than 30 g of carbs per day & my DH who outweighs me by about 50# does something like 50 g daily.

It all depends upon the person. I struggled at first at the gym but I'm seeing gains on a regular basis now & so is he. Though I struggled at first, he never had an issue. It's possible that because I have historically gone lower than he that my transition was rougher :drinker:

hookilau

Thing is...people with insulin problems...carbs just exacerbate hunger. If I eat carbs that are not vegetables or berries I am STARVING at 2000 cals. When I eat low carb I am very satisfied between 1200 and 1800 with no urge at all to eat. THIS is how the low carb diet is superior to ME, it allows me a deficit without starving to death and being tormented by insulin driven hunger pangs.

QFT....me too!

ktysroom

This was a rather long thread so I didn't read through all of it. So, apologies if this has been mentioned. One concern, mostly for women going on a this type of diet is hormonal disruption. I have talked with a number of women who have had hormonal issues after following high protein or high fat diets for a while. So, perhaps keep an eye on your hormone levels, by getting them checked, if you are doing this sort of diet. Also, do not forget that fruits and veggies are your friend. Getting rid of too many of them can cause digestive issues as well.

denisehill2680

I am still working out my macros. I got off the diet for 1 month and gained back 50 lbs....I am kicking myself hard for that. I am a vegetarian so I have to be creative. I need to start doing tofu again, that helped with the protein. I make fat bombs with cream cheese, coconut oil, and grass fed butter to help get my fats in. I have a couple fat bombs to start off with, wheat bran, nutritional yeast, and chia seeds post workout for slow burning carbs. I have a garden burger with mayo and cucumber slices for lunch and a salad for dinner. I do protein shakes to try and supplement the protein. I hope the macros are ok, I am still playing around with it. Any suggestions are appreciated.

AlabasterVerve

Denise, do you enjoy eating those things? Fat bombs, salad, tofu and chia seeds sound like a miserable diet to me. What did you eat for the month you gained 50lbs?

If I were you I'd focus on finding foods you love to eat -- really love -- first and foremost and then worry about the macros. If you don't enjoy the food you won't be able to stick with the diet so what's the point?