clean eating
Options
Replies
-
allaboutthefood wrote: »Clean eating to me, means more fresh foods, veggies, fruits, meats and anything that grows from a tree or in the ground, the less it's processed the better etc..
Out of curiosity, more than what? I eat lots and lots of vegetables (generally 10-12 servings a day of non starchy veg), some fruit, usually get my meat from a local farm, tend to cook things from scratch, always make my own dressings and pasta sauces, etc. So I'd say I do this "more" than many, and somewhat more than I used to (although I always did it some).
However, even if I liked the term "clean" I'd feel like a liar claiming I was "clean eating," because I include processed foods like smoked salmon and greek yogurt (plain usually, but not 100% of the time) and ice cream in my diet. Yesterday I was at a work thing all day and ate the supplied lunch, which was generally not bad, but included pre-made sandwiches, and it didn't bother me at all as it fit okay in my overall diet. I am always puzzled when people who seem to eat at least as much "non clean" stuff as me (as I understand it) nevertheless call themselves "clean." It seems like they are assuming non-clean eaters eat quite differently when I don't think we generally do.
More to the point, "clean" seems to mean an absence of "unclean," and so "clean = more of this stuff or even mostly this stuff" doesn't really make sense to me. This could be my failing or lack of understanding, though, but it is what I find confusing/dishonest in the label.0 -
SherryTeach wrote: »I would classify myself as a healthy eater as opposed to a clean eater. I make sure to consume plenty of foods that are high in nutrients and i examine my food log to make sure I'm hitting my goals for protein, fiber, vitamins and minerals. But to me, healthy eating also includes modest amounts of foods that I love, including salty snacks, chocolate, wine, ice cream. . . and yes, occasionally Froot Loops. I nearly always stay within my calories; if I go over, it was purposeful for a special occasion. And I've been able to maintain for nearly three years.
Yes this.brilliantwords wrote: »You could both lose or gain weight while eating "clean" if you're at a caloric deficit or surplus. From a nutrition and body composition standpoint eating healthily matters, but solely for weight loss? It doesn't.
I think when people say "clean eating" there's a purist mindset. Eat this, not that. Bad foods, good foods. It's not a realistic long term way to look at weight loss. That used to be me.
I used to be convinced I couldn't lose weight unless I got rid of all junk food. It just perpetuated an "all or nothing" mentality and I just kept failing because of my unrealistic expectations for myself. Now I follow IIFYM, make room for foods I like, am not constantly feeing as if Im failing, and have had a shift in mindset. I am also losing more weight now, and feel much more satisfied.
Why make it harder than you have to?
Nice post.
0 -
brilliantwords wrote: »You could both lose or gain weight while eating "clean" if you're at a caloric deficit or surplus. From a nutrition and body composition standpoint eating healthily matters, but solely for weight loss? It doesn't.
I think when people say "clean eating" there's a purist mindset. Eat this, not that. Bad foods, good foods. It's not a realistic long term way to look at weight loss. That used to be me.
I used to be convinced I couldn't lose weight unless I got rid of all junk food. It just perpetuated an "all or nothing" mentality and I just kept failing because of my unrealistic expectations for myself. Now I follow IIFYM, make room for foods I like, am not constantly feeing as if Im failing, and have had a shift in mindset. I am also losing more weight now, and feel much more satisfied.
Why make it harder than you have to?
Insert standing ovation gif here...
0 -
SherryTeach wrote: »I would classify myself as a healthy eater as opposed to a clean eater. I make sure to consume plenty of foods that are high in nutrients and i examine my food log to make sure I'm hitting my goals for protein, fiber, vitamins and minerals. But to me, healthy eating also includes modest amounts of foods that I love, including salty snacks, chocolate, wine, ice cream. . . and yes, occasionally Froot Loops. I nearly always stay within my calories; if I go over, it was purposeful for a special occasion. And I've been able to maintain for nearly three years.
And here...
0 -
We have the same taste in posts! ;-)0
-
lemurcat12 wrote: »We have the same taste in posts! ;-)
I was going to rah rah yours too but I had to go pour some more cereal for my kids (cinnamon toast crunch, we are all out of froot loops...
0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Everyone who says they eat clean has their own definition. There is no consensus, one agreed-upon-by-everyone definition.
I eat healthy. I have lots of fruits and veggies, no-fat dairy, whole grains, and lean, white meats. And tuna. If that fits for someone's definition of "clean", yay. If not, that's okay, too. If they don't include me in their idea of "clean," I'm not offended or hurt and wish them well with their plan.
My objective is to be healthy, not to follow a diet plan. So I eat what is right for me. Everyone should do what is right for them.
I largely agree with this and think it's a good way to look at it.
My hang up is that clean eating just really doesn't mean anything specific (as you say), so anyone who claims to be a "clean eater" is just generally saying they eat "better" than others, which of course is presumptuous and probably not true, so I find it obnoxious.
If people want to be obnoxious, their business, though. I'm trying to not be bugged.
When people speak about their own experience and are not referring to you, don't project it on you and you won't be bugged
However, I am sensitive to your feelings on this matter. You may have noticed that I don't make statements like "I am a clean eater" but rather "I don't buy foods with artificial colors" and "the less convenience foods and high glycemic load foods I eat, the better I feel."
0 -
Sure it can work, but the question is for how long? The more foods and food groups you cut out of your diet because they've been arbitrarily labeled "dirty", the more difficult it is to adhere to your diet. When you inevitably find yourself in a situation where you eat one of those foods again (a friend's party, sporting event, night out, etc.) and you have one bite of your now forbidden food, you're going to binge on that food, and that is extremely unhealthy, and can develop into an eating disorder. Some clean eaters go a month without binges, some can go 6 months or even a year without binges, but in the end they all binge, it's only a matter of when. Don't become an orthorexic, create a healthy, sustainable diet that focuses on hitting healthy calorie and macronutrient goals, and not demonizing food groups.
Why would I eat a food that I don't eat? Where are these parties where only one food is served, and who is forcing me to eat food at the party? Why would I go to a sporting event or eating establishment during a night out, and order something that I don't eat? I'm not a clean eater, but that makes no sense no matter how you eat.
Also, do you have any studies to support your claim that all people who eat clean inevitably binge, or is that just hyperbole or an anecdotal assertion?
If you've only cut out one specific food, yea maybe you can go your whole life without ever eating it again, but the more restrictive the diet, the harder it is to avoid the restricted foods indefinitely. Studies have shown that rigid diets are associated with eating disorder, mood disturbances, and excessive concern with body size/shape
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10336790
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11883916
I imagine it would depend on your diet and lifestyle. I have no problem avoiding fast food, prepackaged meals like Stouffer's lasagna, or the above-mentioned Froot Loops. I'm not even a clean eater.
I can't see anything beyond the abstracts, but from your first link: The second strongest canonical correlation (r=0.59) associated calorie counting and conscious dieting with overeating while alone and increased body mass.
It would appear most of MFP is doomed. Doomed!
But it also states that only a small portion of the participants were dieting for weight loss, and it compares flexible dieting to calorie counting/conscious dieting, and to low dietary restraint. Does this mean calorie counting and conscious dieting is supposed to be rigid dieting? That's not the same as restricting food groups or certain foods.
From the second study: Since this was a cross sectional study, causality of eating disorder symptoms could not be addressed.
All that means is that they found a correlation, and the data collected was self-reported, which is notorious for being flawed. It's unfortunate that neither study has the full text, because they don't address what they mean by the terms "rigid dieting" "strict dieting" and "flexible dieting." You can't really extrapolate the studies to this conversation without knowing whether the definition of "strict" or "rigid" dieting is in line with clean eating.
Here's a link to a full study that I found finally.
http://www.goallab.nl/publications/documents/MeulePapiesKubler2012Appetite.pdf
Yea it's unfortunate that for some studies you can only see the abstract. It's too bad that you have to pay for scientific findings haha.
I absolutely agree that correlation studies are much weaker than something proving causation, but at the same time it can't be completely discredited.
It is true that much of the evidence for restrictive diets leading to unhealthy behavior is anecdotal, but time and time again, nutritionists and dietitians have seen the results of restrictive dieting over and over again, and that cannot be discounted. Maybe it has not been studied enough, but that does not mean it isn't occurring.
Thanks, I'll have to read it later, no time now. FTR, I don't disagree that restriction can lead to issues with binging or disordered thoughts about food, I'm just not sold on it being tied to a particular eating style as much as simply a function of the individual. I think people who go overboard with restricting food items would be just as likely to go overboard with something like calorie counting or exercise, especially if they have obsessive tendencies initially.
I thought I saw something about obsessive yesterday but it turned out to be impulsive. Never-the-less, as you were discussing eating disorders and personality, I'll include it.
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/8130552_Rigid_and_flexible_control_of_eating_behavior_in_a_college_population
In addition to the traditional weight, eating, and affective measurements, the current study included a measure of impulsivity. This was added because impulsivity may be a risk factor for eating disorders (Lowe & Eldredge, 1993), and impulsivity and rigid control (RC) show similar patterns with regard to eating behavior and eating disorder symptomology (Pudel & Westenhoefer, 1998). In regard to RC and FC, it was hypothesized that high levels of impulsivity would be correlated with higher levels of RC, as individuals with higher levels of RC are the ones believed to be more prone to engage in disinhibited eating. Furthermore, impulsivity is partially defined as the lack of ability to plan (Barratt, 1993), hence, lower levels of impulsivity were hypothesized to be associated with higher levels of FC, as individuals high in FC tend to plan for periods of increased consumption and self-regulate better than those individuals high in RC (Westenhoefer et al., 1994).
*******
In order to eat the way I want to eat, which includes avoiding convenience foods and working larger meals into my calorie budget, I utilize planning skills extensively.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »I have seen many people state clean eating does not work. I'm just curious, how do you define clean eating? In your opinion, what is it's successes, or failures. What is it's opposite dirty eating?
When you say it doesn't work - in what way?? to nourish the body and to keep the person alive??
Clean eating is whatever you want it to be. I'm not sure there is any particular or definitive guide.
I'm sure it's just a better and healthier way of eating to the standard diet.
This pinpoints what annoys me about the "clean eating" claim. I suspect most of us -- including those of us who don't go on and on about how we are "clean eaters" or think our diets deserve special labels -- try to eat healthy and likely eat better than the standard diet (which in the US anyway has plenty of issues). So when someone claims they are a "clean eater," I see them as saying their diet is "better and healthier" than those who aren't clean eaters, and of course that's not true often.
More to the point, their food is not actually "cleaner," so that choice of word seems designed to be rude and to insult others by calling their food not clean.
I understand about the labeling and agree that they are necessary. I am confused at times why someone calls losing weight or what eating plan they choose...a lifestyle. I believe however that people can call things whatever they choose...most if not all the times those things don't affect me.
I think however...while it might not be important to me to have a label...it is important to others. It gives them a plan...a structured way of thinking...guidelines to follow. I get it even if it is not something that I find applicable to myself.
One other thing that I will say...while I too have seen "clean eaters"...vegans...vegetarians...paleoists (sp) that appear to think they are better than others...I have also see some "IIFYM" type eaters that think that their way is superior and that everyone else are just idots that have no self-control and that it is all in their heads. I have also seen them brag about eating ice cream every night as if somehow that makes them superior over those that have chosen to cut it from their diets.
Now could my own diet be healthier...probably. Have I given up the majority of "processed"..."convenience"..."fast food"...yes. Am I willing to cut even more of those types of food...probably not unless for some specific health reason.
Anyway...that is my rant for the day...I can live in peace now.
0 -
According to...
United States Code, 2010 Edition
Title 21 - FOOD AND DRUGS
CHAPTER 9 - FEDERAL FOOD, DRUG, AND COSMETIC ACT
SUBCHAPTER II - DEFINITIONS
(gg) The term “processed food” means any food other than a raw agricultural commodity and includes any raw agricultural commodity that has been subject to processing, such as canning, cooking, freezing, dehydration, or milling.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title21/html/USCODE-2010-title21-chap9-subchapII.htm
Yes, that's the government's definition, but in a layman's discussion about clean eating, when people say "processed foods" they are generally referring to "convenience foods."
Convenience food, or tertiary processed food, is food that is commercially prepared (often through processing) to optimize ease of consumption. Such food is usually ready to eat without further preparation. It may also be easily portable, have a long shelf life, or offer a combination of such convenient traits. Although restaurant meals meet this definition, the term is seldom applied to them. Convenience foods include ready-to-eat dry goods, frozen foods such as TV dinners, shelf-stable foods, prepared mixes such as cake mix, and snack foods.
0 -
For some people it is not unrealistic nor is it hard. If it is unrealistic and/or hard for you...then don't attempt it. Just don't judge others on what you can or can not do.
I make my own personal judgements on what does and does not make sense to me. Basing one's diet around an un-definable term in the context of diet makes no sense to me. You know nothing about me so please do not infer what you think I can or can not do...
Makes no difference to be as well. Why you continue to use meaningless terms in the context of diet bewilders me...Someone can eat "dirty"...someone can eat "clean"...makes no difference to me. I choose to eat in a way that fits in to MY life...not someone elses.
0 -
For some people it is not unrealistic nor is it hard. If it is unrealistic and/or hard for you...then don't attempt it. Just don't judge others on what you can or can not do.
I make my own personal judgements on what does and does not make sense to me. Basing one's diet around an un-definable term in the context of diet makes no sense to me. You know nothing about me so please do not infer what you think I can or can not do...Someone can eat "dirty"...someone can eat "clean"...makes no difference to me. I choose to eat in a way that fits in to MY life...not someone elses.
When I used the term "you" I wasn't necessarily referring to you personally...but to people in general...which would include myself.Makes no difference to be as well. Why you continue to use meaningless terms in the context of diet bewilders me...
Meaningless terms? Not sure what you mean by that. I didn't make those terms up. If someone wants to use one of those "meaningless terms" to describe themselves...I don't have a problem with that. I doesn't affect me.0 -
Meaningless terms? Not sure what you mean by that. I didn't make those terms up. If someone wants to use one of those "meaningless terms" to describe themselves...I don't have a problem with that. I doesn't affect me.
Sure you do. You know full well those terms in the context of diet have no meaning. Does not matter if you made them up or not... you are perpetuating their use. Maybe you don't care, but I think the youngster just starting out deserves accurate information, not nonsense...0 -
Eating a healthy diet is not an eating disorder.Sure it can work, but the question is for how long? The more foods and food groups you cut out of your diet because they've been arbitrarily labeled "dirty", the more difficult it is to adhere to your diet. When you inevitably find yourself in a situation where you eat one of those foods again (a friend's party, sporting event, night out, etc.) and you have one bite of your now forbidden food, you're going to binge on that food, and that is extremely unhealthy, and can develop into an eating disorder. Some clean eaters go a month without binges, some can go 6 months or even a year without binges, but in the end they all binge, it's only a matter of when. Don't become an orthorexic, create a healthy, sustainable diet that focuses on hitting healthy calorie and macronutrient goals, and not demonizing food groups.
Binging on junk food is not something that all healthy eaters do.
I realize that some people here have had eating disorders. Whatever they need to do to manage them is great and what they should do. However, not everyone has an ED.
Assuming that people without EDs will suddenly develop them because they chose to eat healthy food...as if that's some foregone conclusion...it's ludicrous.
Please do not demonize healthy diets.
I don't demonize healthy diets, I demonize irrational diets that aren't based on any sound science and lead to bad relationships with food...
But you have demonized healthy diets. Your comment about how a binge is inevitable is demonizing healthy diets. "Don't become an orthorexic," you say,
Eating healthy food is not an eating disorder. It's a good, healthy thing to do and you've demonized it with your incorrect (and unscientific) statements. "...in the end they all binge, it's only a matter of when."
You're demonizing healthy diets.0 -
Eating a healthy diet is not an eating disorder.Sure it can work, but the question is for how long? The more foods and food groups you cut out of your diet because they've been arbitrarily labeled "dirty", the more difficult it is to adhere to your diet. When you inevitably find yourself in a situation where you eat one of those foods again (a friend's party, sporting event, night out, etc.) and you have one bite of your now forbidden food, you're going to binge on that food, and that is extremely unhealthy, and can develop into an eating disorder. Some clean eaters go a month without binges, some can go 6 months or even a year without binges, but in the end they all binge, it's only a matter of when. Don't become an orthorexic, create a healthy, sustainable diet that focuses on hitting healthy calorie and macronutrient goals, and not demonizing food groups.
Binging on junk food is not something that all healthy eaters do.
I realize that some people here have had eating disorders. Whatever they need to do to manage them is great and what they should do. However, not everyone has an ED.
Assuming that people without EDs will suddenly develop them because they chose to eat healthy food...as if that's some foregone conclusion...it's ludicrous.
Please do not demonize healthy diets.
I don't demonize healthy diets, I demonize irrational diets that aren't based on any sound science and lead to bad relationships with food...
But you have demonized healthy diets. Your comment about how a binge is inevitable is demonizing healthy diets. "Don't become an orthorexic," you say,
Eating healthy food is not an eating disorder. It's a good, healthy thing to do and you've demonized it with your incorrect (and unscientific) statements. "...in the end they all binge, it's only a matter of when."
You're demonizing healthy diets.
Actually he is correct, how many times do we see on these forums of people making threads that, "I keep binging because I restrict myself on not eating certain foods", etc, etc. Like many times a weeks or more.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Sure it can work, but the question is for how long? The more foods and food groups you cut out of your diet because they've been arbitrarily labeled "dirty", the more difficult it is to adhere to your diet. When you inevitably find yourself in a situation where you eat one of those foods again (a friend's party, sporting event, night out, etc.) and you have one bite of your now forbidden food, you're going to binge on that food, and that is extremely unhealthy, and can develop into an eating disorder. Some clean eaters go a month without binges, some can go 6 months or even a year without binges, but in the end they all binge, it's only a matter of when. Don't become an orthorexic, create a healthy, sustainable diet that focuses on hitting healthy calorie and macronutrient goals, and not demonizing food groups.
Why would I eat a food that I don't eat? Where are these parties where only one food is served, and who is forcing me to eat food at the party? Why would I go to a sporting event or eating establishment during a night out, and order something that I don't eat? I'm not a clean eater, but that makes no sense no matter how you eat.
Also, do you have any studies to support your claim that all people who eat clean inevitably binge, or is that just hyperbole or an anecdotal assertion?
If you've only cut out one specific food, yea maybe you can go your whole life without ever eating it again, but the more restrictive the diet, the harder it is to avoid the restricted foods indefinitely. Studies have shown that rigid diets are associated with eating disorder, mood disturbances, and excessive concern with body size/shape
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10336790
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11883916
I wouldn't necessarily characterize clean eating as rigid. Less convenient than eating convenience foods, sure, but not so much rigid. Your studies didn't define rigid eating but I found this:
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/8130552_Rigid_and_flexible_control_of_eating_behavior_in_a_college_population
You wouldn't characterize clean eating as an "all or nothing" approach? I don't think there is a less flexible form of dieting than clean eating, at least none that I've come across. There is a reason most nutritionists debate "Clean Eating vs. Flexible Dieting" as the two main forms of dieting on two ends of the spectrum. Clean eating is not flexible at all, it is extremely rigid.
This makes me think they are using a very different definition of clean eating than just the standard 'natural and un/minimally processed'. Because simply avoiding overly processed and synthetic foods still allows for a very flexible diet.
That depends highly on your definition of a processed food, which is itself subjective.
Yes, I have read some posts that claim to think picking an apple is processing. But my definition wouldn't matter, that used in the study would.
There was no definition given for processed food in either of the studies I linked. Are you referring to a different study?
Without definition of terms any article or study is extremely subjective and therefore mostly meaningless.
A study about rigid dieting is not meaningless just because there's no definition of a processed foods. The fact that people are cutting foods out of their diet in the first place makes the diet rigid, not what they are cutting out.
I disagree. Without definitions the study tells us little. Is cutting foods what is meant by "rigid"? Is it all that is meant? What foods? How many foods? Do calories remain the same, or is there also severe calorie restriction?
Without knowing what is meant by "rigid" the study is as meaningless as the phrase "clean eating" without a definition.
Fair enough, in return I'd ask you why you think it can be beneficial to completely cut certain foods out of your diet?
I never said I think that, but for some people I imagine it probably is beneficial. Allergies, obviously. But, it could also be beneficial to cut trigger foods (foods that you just can't seem to stop eating once you start) from your diet. Even if you do eventually cave and binge on them, it's got to be better than doing it on a regular basis.
And then there are foods that you might cut simply because you don't think they are worth the calories. I stopped eating fast food years ago. In the past couple of decades I've had fast food maybe 2-3 times when traveling and it was all that was available. I can't even remember the last time I ate it.0 -
Meaningless terms? Not sure what you mean by that. I didn't make those terms up. If someone wants to use one of those "meaningless terms" to describe themselves...I don't have a problem with that. I doesn't affect me.
Sure you do. You know full well those terms in the context of diet have no meaning. Does not matter if you made them up or not... you are perpetuating their use. Maybe you don't care, but I think the youngster just starting out deserves accurate information, not nonsense...
These are the terms that I have used on this thread...
"clean eaters"...vegans...vegetarians...paleoists (sp)
"dirty"
"clean"
"IIFYM"
Am I the only one in all of the history of MFP to have ever used these terms?
Have you never used any of these terms during your time on MFP?
How does using these terms in any way perpetuate their use?
Do you jump on everyone that uses any of these terms?
Also...where does it state on MFP that I have to verify with you or anyone else what terms that I use?
Surely...these terms are used quite frequently on MFP. Why does my usage of these terms perpetuate their use or have any adverse affects on the youngsters?
Title of the thread..."clean eating". How are we supposed to discuss the topic without referring to "clean eaters"?
0 -
Clean Eating?
I define it as...lean meats, fish, fresh fruits and veggies, nuts, whole grained, home baked stuff, beans, raw, whole dairy and whole eggs.
I needed an ideal to strive toward: clean eating!
I eat this way 70% of the time - close enough.
And my results are stellar to reflect very high goals regarding peak fitness and optimal health.
I want to eat clean as I understand the concept without turning my diet into a religion you all much join.
People like that are such bores!
0 -
Angry much?Meaningless terms? Not sure what you mean by that. I didn't make those terms up. If someone wants to use one of those "meaningless terms" to describe themselves...I don't have a problem with that. I doesn't affect me.
Sure you do. You know full well those terms in the context of diet have no meaning. Does not matter if you made them up or not... you are perpetuating their use. Maybe you don't care, but I think the youngster just starting out deserves accurate information, not nonsense...
These are the terms that I have used on this thread...
"clean eaters"...vegans...vegetarians...paleoists (sp)
"dirty"
"clean"
"IIFYM"
Am I the only one in all of the history of MFP to have ever used these terms?
Have you never used any of these terms during your time on MFP?
How does using these terms in any way perpetuate their use?
Do you jump on everyone that uses any of these terms?
Also...where does it state on MFP that I have to verify with you or anyone else what terms that I use?
Surely...these terms are used quite frequently on MFP. Why does my usage of these terms perpetuate their use or have any adverse affects on the youngsters?
Title of the thread..."clean eating". How are we supposed to discuss the topic without referring to "clean eaters"?
0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392K Introduce Yourself
- 43.6K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 402 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 998 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions