are carbs really that terrible?
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
0% Greek yougurt is not plain yogurt. It has additional processing.kshama2001 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Wouldn't 0% Greek yogurt still be ultra-processed?kshama2001 wrote: »Good vs Evil---meh, I don't know. Here is what I believe and I am a little surprised it didn't come up in these 4 pages. Processed foods are not good for you. No matter how easy they are, no matter how tasty they are, processed foods have junk added to them that aren't meant to be good for you. Adding fructose to food has caused damage to the American population. I believe GMO's are not being digested as intended and should be avoided. I don't eat processed protein or processed carbs. Check the ingredients on your "healthy" yogurt and tell me you feel comfortable eating it. Compare that to plain greek yogurt. If you can process dairy consider dropping flavored yogurt and mix your own starting with greek.
If you are talking about whole unprocessed carbs, I agree with you. Have it, and enjoy it, if you're lucky enough that your body can handle it. I am somewhat lucky but I have to watch my carbs more than I would like to.
If you are eating whole unprocessed foods you will be much better off no matter what your macros end up being...
Hi Gina,
I've found our discussions about processed foods here to be more productive once someone pointed out the Brazilian classifications of processing - Natural/Minimal, Processed, and Ultra Processed.
Since just saying "processed" would technically include the strawberry I pick from my garden and throw in the freezer, we would have semantics debates when someone suggested not eating processed foods. But if what you are actually talking about are Ultra Processed foods, that's a different story. And probably one best left for another thread.
Yogurt is mentioned nine times, both as a Minimally and Ultra Processed food.
Milk and Cheese
"This group includes minimally processed foods such as cow’s milk, cheese curds, plain yogurt, and processed foods such as cheeses."
Ultra
"Milk drinks and yogurts that have been sweetened, coloured, and flavoured are ultra-processed foods, and as such should be avoided."
I'm not sure that adding chocolate and a stabilizer to milk involves more processing than making cheese. It almost seems like they're working in terms of their opinion of the processing, rather than the degree of processing per se.
I am taking no position on 0% Greek yogurt
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Double-Stuff Oreos=54% carbs, 43% fat.
I wonder though... if you're at olive garden and there's those "bread" sticks that people adore, and a bunch of pads of butter, which one will you gorge on while waiting for the meal...
Most people put butter or olive oil on bread. I suspect Olive Garden bread (based on memories from the '90s) has fat in it, too. The only bread I will compulsively eat (naan) does.
Plain fat isn't appealing, but neither is plain sugar.Yes, clearly many of the hyper palatable foods have both carbs and fats in roughly equal quantities. And many do not (popular breakfast "cereal" being a good example). I don't see a lot of people on here crying because they can't stop eating fat. Not many folks feel "addicted" [sic] to fat.
And if I didn't work on it I'd eat hyperpalatable foods (i.e., sweets or salty, fatty, starchy things like fries, as well as basically any delicious restaurant thing, like curries from an Indian restaurant) beyond what I should (and sometimes for emotional reasons). To blame carbs for this seems bizarre.
I wouldn't say it is bizarre. I'd say it is an individual thing. For me, it was sugar. Take out the fat and give me a soda or ju-jubes. I didn't crave the taste of potatoes but they were a gateway food for me that led to more sugary stuff.
Sometimes it IS the carbs.
Sometimes it is other foods. I can't binge on salty or fat foods. My body doesn't work that way. I love cheese, but I can't sit and eat it for hours like I could carbs. An individual thing.
Yup, I could easily overeat on many primarily carb foods, but not so much on primarily fat foods. And then there's how my body feels after each...
My body definitely feels worse after eating some kinds of high fat things than some kinds of high carb things. In fact, very few mostly carb things make me feel bad after eating them, I just think some of those things are good (for me) to limit, as they are not especially nutrient dense for their calories.
They aren't especially high cal, though (I mean stuff like bread, rice, potatoes). The high cal foods with lots of carbs I tend to enjoy also have lots of fat.0 -
Carbs usually won't make you fat, you can even eat more of them than the same amount of fat calories. After eating carbs, you want to move your body. After eating fats, you have no energy and it's more likely that the fat will store as fat. It's still calories in vs calories out but still something people should be aware of. The fat you eat is often the fat you wear. Carbs can indirectly cause weight gain because with enough carbs your body is not burning the dietary fat you eat. Your body prefers carbs so the dietary fat will be stored as fat. Dietary fat is stored very efficiently in adipose tissue. The solution to people who love carbs is a high carb low fat diet. Don't eat lots of fat with your carbs because the fat will be stored as fat. All countries who eat more than 75% of their daily calories from carbs have a thin population. Thailand, India, Japan, just name it. The people who think eating meat, cheese, dairy and eggs will make you look like a lean model are just ignorant. It's ignorant to think that the fat you eat magically burns away and the carbs convert themselves into fat. Carbs converting into fat (de novo lipogenesis) is very rare in humans. It will happen if you drink sodas and fruit smoothies tho but rice, bread and potatoes? No way you will get fat from those foods. The reason people lose weight on ketogenic low carb diets is because the dieters feel like *kitten* and eat nothing. Ketose only happens when you are sick so you are simulating sickness by not eating carbs.0
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I feel you could go through and do this with all kinds of foods and cherry pick to make an example.lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Double-Stuff Oreos=54% carbs, 43% fat.
I wonder though... if you're at olive garden and there's those "bread" sticks that people adore, and a bunch of pads of butter, which one will you gorge on while waiting for the meal...
Most people put butter or olive oil on bread. I suspect Olive Garden bread (based on memories from the '90s) has fat in it, too. The only bread I will compulsively eat (naan) does.
Plain fat isn't appealing, but neither is plain sugar.Yes, clearly many of the hyper palatable foods have both carbs and fats in roughly equal quantities. And many do not (popular breakfast "cereal" being a good example). I don't see a lot of people on here crying because they can't stop eating fat. Not many folks feel "addicted" [sic] to fat.
I bet that would be different in the '80s. Pop dieting lore constantly tells people they are "addicted" to sugar. Yet Michael Moss' Sugar Fat Salt suggests that a huge reason for the increase in obesity since the '80s is the tripling of cheese consumption (fat). Granted, we've increased calories from many things.
I find plain starches entirely uninteresting, and same with overly sugary things, so that might be biasing me. I think plain bread or pasta is boring, cold cereal (sugary or no) is unpleasant, oatmeal I prefer sweetened only with berries, sugary coffee = ugh, etc. But if I have cheese I have to exercise will power to not overeat and when I didn't I would regularly eat a large chunk of good cheese.
And if I didn't work on it I'd eat hyperpalatable foods (i.e., sweets or salty, fatty, starchy things like fries, as well as basically any delicious restaurant thing, like curries from an Indian restaurant) beyond what I should (and sometimes for emotional reasons). To blame carbs for this seems bizarre.
Like I would counter that if I was somewhere that offered a cheese plate (near pure fat) or offered a rice cakes, I and most people would hit up the cheese platter.
In fact, I think it is a rather contrived example to put even plain bread up against butter or butter up against almost anything. We have social conventions against eating pure butter. You'll find kids are far more likely to eat pure butter given the chance, at least part of that is they have not yet been indoctrinated with the cultural norm of "you do not eat pure butter, it is for putting on things."
This is a good point, regarding children and conditioning in regards to fatty foods. I know that when they were children, my aunt used to sneak into the refrigerator and eat mayonnaise with a spoon and that my mother used to just eat plain butter.
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Good way to kill yourself lifting without carbs. No energy and under a barbell. I did the low carb thing one day, and felt like crap when leaving.0
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Sure. But would that rack of ribs lead to cravings? For me it wouldn't. It would be damned tasty though!Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Double-Stuff Oreos=54% carbs, 43% fat.
I wonder though... if you're at olive garden and there's those "bread" sticks that people adore, and a bunch of pads of butter, which one will you gorge on while waiting for the meal...
Most people put butter or olive oil on bread. I suspect Olive Garden bread (based on memories from the '90s) has fat in it, too. The only bread I will compulsively eat (naan) does.
Plain fat isn't appealing, but neither is plain sugar.Yes, clearly many of the hyper palatable foods have both carbs and fats in roughly equal quantities. And many do not (popular breakfast "cereal" being a good example). I don't see a lot of people on here crying because they can't stop eating fat. Not many folks feel "addicted" [sic] to fat.
And if I didn't work on it I'd eat hyperpalatable foods (i.e., sweets or salty, fatty, starchy things like fries, as well as basically any delicious restaurant thing, like curries from an Indian restaurant) beyond what I should (and sometimes for emotional reasons). To blame carbs for this seems bizarre.
I wouldn't say it is bizarre. I'd say it is an individual thing. For me, it was sugar. Take out the fat and give me a soda or ju-jubes. I didn't crave the taste of potatoes but they were a gateway food for me that led to more sugary stuff.
Sometimes it IS the carbs.
Sometimes it is other foods. I can't binge on salty or fat foods. My body doesn't work that way. I love cheese, but I can't sit and eat it for hours like I could carbs. An individual thing.
Yup, I could easily overeat on many primarily carb foods, but not so much on primarily fat foods. And then there's how my body feels after each...
What do you mean by "primarily fat foods"? Would nuts and fatty meats like baby back ribs and bacon qualify?
I was thinking of bacon yes. I can over eat on nuts, but mainly because they are convenient and easy to just pop in my mouth without thinking. They ARE high calorie, so yes, I have to be careful. I don't "crave" nuts, though.
And, if I eat myself silly with bacon, I don't often find myself wanting another fatty food soon after.
If I eat a lot of sugary foods, I typically crave more sugary foods.
Again, that's me. I just find it easier not to fight against my body so I just don't eat them.
As Lemur notes, many refined carb foods are also fatty foods (desserts and chips for example), many aren't such as Cap'n Crunch. If I eat a bowl of Cap'n crunch, I want more and I'm hungry. If I eat an avocado for breakfast, which I did today, I'm fine until lunch, and I'll find it easier to have a nutritious lunch.
Again, I'm only speaking for me: it's just easier to reach MY goals when I limit the heavily refined carbs in my diet.
Got ya. I could totally overeat on nuts, and if baby back ribs count, I could easily eat more than twice my TDEE at one meal.
What Needs2 said goes for me too. And, no, it wouldn't lead to cravings (although if I eat lots of ribs and bacon in my diet I tend to want it more, just as when I eat lots of sweets I tend to want sweets more -- I think people want what they are used to). However, eating pasta or even a cookie doesn't cause me to crave things either.
I understand it might work that way for you, but even if sugar cereal causes you to crave more, that doesn't mean it's an issue of "carbs" not fat or a reason to generalize about "carbs" being bad for people. It's not all carbs, it's sugary refined carbs (or maybe refined carbs in general), and it's not that way for everyone. To the extent I have cravings, I'm as likely to crave a fattier food (like pulled pork or good cheese) as I am something more carby. And the only foods that are mostly just carbs (no fat) that I crave are fruit. I love potatoes, but even roasted I find them much more crave-able with a little olive oil, etc.
Again, not claiming this is anything but my individual reaction, but since I'm arguing against generalizations I think it's relevant.
For what it's worth, I limit highly refined carbs too, because they often aren't particularly nutritious. I consider the calories and how tasty they are before eating them. But for me that's the same consideration I apply to other foods (and related to why I similarly don't eat processed meat or much deep fat fried stuff). It's not a "carb" thing.0 -
Wall of wrong. If it's CICO, it's CICO.Carbs usually won't make you fat, you can even eat more of them than the same amount of fat calories. After eating carbs, you want to move your body. After eating fats, you have no energy and it's more likely that the fat will store as fat. It's still calories in vs calories out but still something people should be aware of. The fat you eat is often the fat you wear. Carbs can indirectly cause weight gain because with enough carbs your body is not burning the dietary fat you eat. Your body prefers carbs so the dietary fat will be stored as fat. Dietary fat is stored very efficiently in adipose tissue. The solution to people who love carbs is a high carb low fat diet. Don't eat lots of fat with your carbs because the fat will be stored as fat. All countries who eat more than 75% of their daily calories from carbs have a thin population. Thailand, India, Japan, just name it. The people who think eating meat, cheese, dairy and eggs will make you look like a lean model are just ignorant. It's ignorant to think that the fat you eat magically burns away and the carbs convert themselves into fat. Carbs converting into fat (de novo lipogenesis) is very rare in humans. It will happen if you drink sodas and fruit smoothies tho but rice, bread and potatoes? No way you will get fat from those foods. The reason people lose weight on ketogenic low carb diets is because the dieters feel like *kitten* and eat nothing. Ketose only happens when you are sick so you are simulating sickness by not eating carbs.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
And for me it's definitely a refined carb kind of thing. And having some chips is always going to lead me to crave something refined carb like.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Sure. But would that rack of ribs lead to cravings? For me it wouldn't. It would be damned tasty though!Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Double-Stuff Oreos=54% carbs, 43% fat.
I wonder though... if you're at olive garden and there's those "bread" sticks that people adore, and a bunch of pads of butter, which one will you gorge on while waiting for the meal...
Most people put butter or olive oil on bread. I suspect Olive Garden bread (based on memories from the '90s) has fat in it, too. The only bread I will compulsively eat (naan) does.
Plain fat isn't appealing, but neither is plain sugar.Yes, clearly many of the hyper palatable foods have both carbs and fats in roughly equal quantities. And many do not (popular breakfast "cereal" being a good example). I don't see a lot of people on here crying because they can't stop eating fat. Not many folks feel "addicted" [sic] to fat.
And if I didn't work on it I'd eat hyperpalatable foods (i.e., sweets or salty, fatty, starchy things like fries, as well as basically any delicious restaurant thing, like curries from an Indian restaurant) beyond what I should (and sometimes for emotional reasons). To blame carbs for this seems bizarre.
I wouldn't say it is bizarre. I'd say it is an individual thing. For me, it was sugar. Take out the fat and give me a soda or ju-jubes. I didn't crave the taste of potatoes but they were a gateway food for me that led to more sugary stuff.
Sometimes it IS the carbs.
Sometimes it is other foods. I can't binge on salty or fat foods. My body doesn't work that way. I love cheese, but I can't sit and eat it for hours like I could carbs. An individual thing.
Yup, I could easily overeat on many primarily carb foods, but not so much on primarily fat foods. And then there's how my body feels after each...
What do you mean by "primarily fat foods"? Would nuts and fatty meats like baby back ribs and bacon qualify?
I was thinking of bacon yes. I can over eat on nuts, but mainly because they are convenient and easy to just pop in my mouth without thinking. They ARE high calorie, so yes, I have to be careful. I don't "crave" nuts, though.
And, if I eat myself silly with bacon, I don't often find myself wanting another fatty food soon after.
If I eat a lot of sugary foods, I typically crave more sugary foods.
Again, that's me. I just find it easier not to fight against my body so I just don't eat them.
As Lemur notes, many refined carb foods are also fatty foods (desserts and chips for example), many aren't such as Cap'n Crunch. If I eat a bowl of Cap'n crunch, I want more and I'm hungry. If I eat an avocado for breakfast, which I did today, I'm fine until lunch, and I'll find it easier to have a nutritious lunch.
Again, I'm only speaking for me: it's just easier to reach MY goals when I limit the heavily refined carbs in my diet.
Got ya. I could totally overeat on nuts, and if baby back ribs count, I could easily eat more than twice my TDEE at one meal.
I don't think I get the types of cravings being discussed. I mean, I do crave certain foods sometimes, but it's really more of a hankering, than a "must have now!!" type thing. And it's more likely to be a fatty food than a sugary/carby food.
I believe we all have different bodies and brains. And I'm happy my tough to resist foods are refined carbs. I can easily limit or remove them. It would be harder for me to remove fats and meet my goals.
Oh yeah, chips. Frito Lay may well be the devil.
But again: Lay's Classic chips have 160 calories per serving, 90 of which (or over half) are from fat.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
And for me it's definitely a refined carb kind of thing. And having some chips is always going to lead me to crave something refined carb like.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Sure. But would that rack of ribs lead to cravings? For me it wouldn't. It would be damned tasty though!Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Double-Stuff Oreos=54% carbs, 43% fat.
I wonder though... if you're at olive garden and there's those "bread" sticks that people adore, and a bunch of pads of butter, which one will you gorge on while waiting for the meal...
Most people put butter or olive oil on bread. I suspect Olive Garden bread (based on memories from the '90s) has fat in it, too. The only bread I will compulsively eat (naan) does.
Plain fat isn't appealing, but neither is plain sugar.Yes, clearly many of the hyper palatable foods have both carbs and fats in roughly equal quantities. And many do not (popular breakfast "cereal" being a good example). I don't see a lot of people on here crying because they can't stop eating fat. Not many folks feel "addicted" [sic] to fat.
And if I didn't work on it I'd eat hyperpalatable foods (i.e., sweets or salty, fatty, starchy things like fries, as well as basically any delicious restaurant thing, like curries from an Indian restaurant) beyond what I should (and sometimes for emotional reasons). To blame carbs for this seems bizarre.
I wouldn't say it is bizarre. I'd say it is an individual thing. For me, it was sugar. Take out the fat and give me a soda or ju-jubes. I didn't crave the taste of potatoes but they were a gateway food for me that led to more sugary stuff.
Sometimes it IS the carbs.
Sometimes it is other foods. I can't binge on salty or fat foods. My body doesn't work that way. I love cheese, but I can't sit and eat it for hours like I could carbs. An individual thing.
Yup, I could easily overeat on many primarily carb foods, but not so much on primarily fat foods. And then there's how my body feels after each...
What do you mean by "primarily fat foods"? Would nuts and fatty meats like baby back ribs and bacon qualify?
I was thinking of bacon yes. I can over eat on nuts, but mainly because they are convenient and easy to just pop in my mouth without thinking. They ARE high calorie, so yes, I have to be careful. I don't "crave" nuts, though.
And, if I eat myself silly with bacon, I don't often find myself wanting another fatty food soon after.
If I eat a lot of sugary foods, I typically crave more sugary foods.
Again, that's me. I just find it easier not to fight against my body so I just don't eat them.
As Lemur notes, many refined carb foods are also fatty foods (desserts and chips for example), many aren't such as Cap'n Crunch. If I eat a bowl of Cap'n crunch, I want more and I'm hungry. If I eat an avocado for breakfast, which I did today, I'm fine until lunch, and I'll find it easier to have a nutritious lunch.
Again, I'm only speaking for me: it's just easier to reach MY goals when I limit the heavily refined carbs in my diet.
Got ya. I could totally overeat on nuts, and if baby back ribs count, I could easily eat more than twice my TDEE at one meal.
I don't think I get the types of cravings being discussed. I mean, I do crave certain foods sometimes, but it's really more of a hankering, than a "must have now!!" type thing. And it's more likely to be a fatty food than a sugary/carby food.
I believe we all have different bodies and brains. And I'm happy my tough to resist foods are refined carbs. I can easily limit or remove them. It would be harder for me to remove fats and meet my goals.
Oh yeah, chips. Frito Lay may well be the devil.
But again: Lay's Classic chips have 160 calories per serving, 90 of which (or over half) are from fat.
That's why they are so yummy. I would never overeat those nasty baked potato chips.0 -
"It's so easy to overeat carbs. I can eat potatoes all day ... once I've drench them in butter ... and sour creme .. owe and bacon bits, but that is protein right?"lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
And for me it's definitely a refined carb kind of thing. And having some chips is always going to lead me to crave something refined carb like.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Sure. But would that rack of ribs lead to cravings? For me it wouldn't. It would be damned tasty though!Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Double-Stuff Oreos=54% carbs, 43% fat.
I wonder though... if you're at olive garden and there's those "bread" sticks that people adore, and a bunch of pads of butter, which one will you gorge on while waiting for the meal...
Most people put butter or olive oil on bread. I suspect Olive Garden bread (based on memories from the '90s) has fat in it, too. The only bread I will compulsively eat (naan) does.
Plain fat isn't appealing, but neither is plain sugar.Yes, clearly many of the hyper palatable foods have both carbs and fats in roughly equal quantities. And many do not (popular breakfast "cereal" being a good example). I don't see a lot of people on here crying because they can't stop eating fat. Not many folks feel "addicted" [sic] to fat.
And if I didn't work on it I'd eat hyperpalatable foods (i.e., sweets or salty, fatty, starchy things like fries, as well as basically any delicious restaurant thing, like curries from an Indian restaurant) beyond what I should (and sometimes for emotional reasons). To blame carbs for this seems bizarre.
I wouldn't say it is bizarre. I'd say it is an individual thing. For me, it was sugar. Take out the fat and give me a soda or ju-jubes. I didn't crave the taste of potatoes but they were a gateway food for me that led to more sugary stuff.
Sometimes it IS the carbs.
Sometimes it is other foods. I can't binge on salty or fat foods. My body doesn't work that way. I love cheese, but I can't sit and eat it for hours like I could carbs. An individual thing.
Yup, I could easily overeat on many primarily carb foods, but not so much on primarily fat foods. And then there's how my body feels after each...
What do you mean by "primarily fat foods"? Would nuts and fatty meats like baby back ribs and bacon qualify?
I was thinking of bacon yes. I can over eat on nuts, but mainly because they are convenient and easy to just pop in my mouth without thinking. They ARE high calorie, so yes, I have to be careful. I don't "crave" nuts, though.
And, if I eat myself silly with bacon, I don't often find myself wanting another fatty food soon after.
If I eat a lot of sugary foods, I typically crave more sugary foods.
Again, that's me. I just find it easier not to fight against my body so I just don't eat them.
As Lemur notes, many refined carb foods are also fatty foods (desserts and chips for example), many aren't such as Cap'n Crunch. If I eat a bowl of Cap'n crunch, I want more and I'm hungry. If I eat an avocado for breakfast, which I did today, I'm fine until lunch, and I'll find it easier to have a nutritious lunch.
Again, I'm only speaking for me: it's just easier to reach MY goals when I limit the heavily refined carbs in my diet.
Got ya. I could totally overeat on nuts, and if baby back ribs count, I could easily eat more than twice my TDEE at one meal.
I don't think I get the types of cravings being discussed. I mean, I do crave certain foods sometimes, but it's really more of a hankering, than a "must have now!!" type thing. And it's more likely to be a fatty food than a sugary/carby food.
I believe we all have different bodies and brains. And I'm happy my tough to resist foods are refined carbs. I can easily limit or remove them. It would be harder for me to remove fats and meet my goals.
Oh yeah, chips. Frito Lay may well be the devil.
But again: Lay's Classic chips have 160 calories per serving, 90 of which (or over half) are from fat.
I've one a few eating contests in my time, but I'd be hard pressed to bulk myself on pure potato with no garnishing, or even if I gave myself salt to add to it. A potato is pretty pure carb. Never tried any potato cereal though.0 -
Animals have teeth, claw, and barbs to keep from being eaten. They can also run or swim away. Plants often have toxins. This is why the FDA has approved the active ingredient in stevia as a sweetener, but not the whole leaf. Not everything is known about all the other interesting chemicals and compounds in the natural leaf. Natural =/= good for you.
Mushrooms , the toxin amantin
Some neato stuff about tomatoes and other vegetables and the alkaloids they produce for defence.
Lupin, grass pea, fava, and castor beans.0 -
Carbs usually won't make you fat, you can even eat more of them than the same amount of fat calories. After eating carbs, you want to move your body. After eating fats, you have no energy and it's more likely that the fat will store as fat. It's still calories in vs calories out but still something people should be aware of. The fat you eat is often the fat you wear. Carbs can indirectly cause weight gain because with enough carbs your body is not burning the dietary fat you eat. Your body prefers carbs so the dietary fat will be stored as fat. Dietary fat is stored very efficiently in adipose tissue. The solution to people who love carbs is a high carb low fat diet. Don't eat lots of fat with your carbs because the fat will be stored as fat. All countries who eat more than 75% of their daily calories from carbs have a thin population. Thailand, India, Japan, just name it. The people who think eating meat, cheese, dairy and eggs will make you look like a lean model are just ignorant. It's ignorant to think that the fat you eat magically burns away and the carbs convert themselves into fat. Carbs converting into fat (de novo lipogenesis) is very rare in humans. It will happen if you drink sodas and fruit smoothies tho but rice, bread and potatoes? No way you will get fat from those foods. The reason people lose weight on ketogenic low carb diets is because the dieters feel like *kitten* and eat nothing. Ketose only happens when you are sick so you are simulating sickness by not eating carbs.
Rather than making me want to move, carbs from foods made from flour make me sleepy. I have a high carb/low protein snack before bed and it helps me sleep.
A high carb low fat diet diet would be disastrous for me. When I eat higher carbs, I don't feel full and want to eat and eat and eat. I have seen many other posters here say the same thing.
I do great losing weight on around 40% carbs, 30% fat and 30% protein.
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But the baked scoops still act as decent salsa conveyors. The thing is, though, the calorie difference is minimal: they have less fat but more carbs per serving.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
And for me it's definitely a refined carb kind of thing. And having some chips is always going to lead me to crave something refined carb like.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Sure. But would that rack of ribs lead to cravings? For me it wouldn't. It would be damned tasty though!Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Double-Stuff Oreos=54% carbs, 43% fat.
I wonder though... if you're at olive garden and there's those "bread" sticks that people adore, and a bunch of pads of butter, which one will you gorge on while waiting for the meal...
Most people put butter or olive oil on bread. I suspect Olive Garden bread (based on memories from the '90s) has fat in it, too. The only bread I will compulsively eat (naan) does.
Plain fat isn't appealing, but neither is plain sugar.Yes, clearly many of the hyper palatable foods have both carbs and fats in roughly equal quantities. And many do not (popular breakfast "cereal" being a good example). I don't see a lot of people on here crying because they can't stop eating fat. Not many folks feel "addicted" [sic] to fat.
And if I didn't work on it I'd eat hyperpalatable foods (i.e., sweets or salty, fatty, starchy things like fries, as well as basically any delicious restaurant thing, like curries from an Indian restaurant) beyond what I should (and sometimes for emotional reasons). To blame carbs for this seems bizarre.
I wouldn't say it is bizarre. I'd say it is an individual thing. For me, it was sugar. Take out the fat and give me a soda or ju-jubes. I didn't crave the taste of potatoes but they were a gateway food for me that led to more sugary stuff.
Sometimes it IS the carbs.
Sometimes it is other foods. I can't binge on salty or fat foods. My body doesn't work that way. I love cheese, but I can't sit and eat it for hours like I could carbs. An individual thing.
Yup, I could easily overeat on many primarily carb foods, but not so much on primarily fat foods. And then there's how my body feels after each...
What do you mean by "primarily fat foods"? Would nuts and fatty meats like baby back ribs and bacon qualify?
I was thinking of bacon yes. I can over eat on nuts, but mainly because they are convenient and easy to just pop in my mouth without thinking. They ARE high calorie, so yes, I have to be careful. I don't "crave" nuts, though.
And, if I eat myself silly with bacon, I don't often find myself wanting another fatty food soon after.
If I eat a lot of sugary foods, I typically crave more sugary foods.
Again, that's me. I just find it easier not to fight against my body so I just don't eat them.
As Lemur notes, many refined carb foods are also fatty foods (desserts and chips for example), many aren't such as Cap'n Crunch. If I eat a bowl of Cap'n crunch, I want more and I'm hungry. If I eat an avocado for breakfast, which I did today, I'm fine until lunch, and I'll find it easier to have a nutritious lunch.
Again, I'm only speaking for me: it's just easier to reach MY goals when I limit the heavily refined carbs in my diet.
Got ya. I could totally overeat on nuts, and if baby back ribs count, I could easily eat more than twice my TDEE at one meal.
I don't think I get the types of cravings being discussed. I mean, I do crave certain foods sometimes, but it's really more of a hankering, than a "must have now!!" type thing. And it's more likely to be a fatty food than a sugary/carby food.
I believe we all have different bodies and brains. And I'm happy my tough to resist foods are refined carbs. I can easily limit or remove them. It would be harder for me to remove fats and meet my goals.
Oh yeah, chips. Frito Lay may well be the devil.
But again: Lay's Classic chips have 160 calories per serving, 90 of which (or over half) are from fat.
That's why they are so yummy. I would never overeat those nasty baked potato chips.
So on lifting days, I eat the carby, lower fat chips and on non-lifting days, the less carby, fattier chips. Probably overkill, but it works.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
But the baked scoops still act as decent salsa conveyors. The thing is, though, the calorie difference is minimal: they have less fat but more carbs per serving.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
And for me it's definitely a refined carb kind of thing. And having some chips is always going to lead me to crave something refined carb like.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Sure. But would that rack of ribs lead to cravings? For me it wouldn't. It would be damned tasty though!Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Double-Stuff Oreos=54% carbs, 43% fat.
I wonder though... if you're at olive garden and there's those "bread" sticks that people adore, and a bunch of pads of butter, which one will you gorge on while waiting for the meal...
Most people put butter or olive oil on bread. I suspect Olive Garden bread (based on memories from the '90s) has fat in it, too. The only bread I will compulsively eat (naan) does.
Plain fat isn't appealing, but neither is plain sugar.Yes, clearly many of the hyper palatable foods have both carbs and fats in roughly equal quantities. And many do not (popular breakfast "cereal" being a good example). I don't see a lot of people on here crying because they can't stop eating fat. Not many folks feel "addicted" [sic] to fat.
And if I didn't work on it I'd eat hyperpalatable foods (i.e., sweets or salty, fatty, starchy things like fries, as well as basically any delicious restaurant thing, like curries from an Indian restaurant) beyond what I should (and sometimes for emotional reasons). To blame carbs for this seems bizarre.
I wouldn't say it is bizarre. I'd say it is an individual thing. For me, it was sugar. Take out the fat and give me a soda or ju-jubes. I didn't crave the taste of potatoes but they were a gateway food for me that led to more sugary stuff.
Sometimes it IS the carbs.
Sometimes it is other foods. I can't binge on salty or fat foods. My body doesn't work that way. I love cheese, but I can't sit and eat it for hours like I could carbs. An individual thing.
Yup, I could easily overeat on many primarily carb foods, but not so much on primarily fat foods. And then there's how my body feels after each...
What do you mean by "primarily fat foods"? Would nuts and fatty meats like baby back ribs and bacon qualify?
I was thinking of bacon yes. I can over eat on nuts, but mainly because they are convenient and easy to just pop in my mouth without thinking. They ARE high calorie, so yes, I have to be careful. I don't "crave" nuts, though.
And, if I eat myself silly with bacon, I don't often find myself wanting another fatty food soon after.
If I eat a lot of sugary foods, I typically crave more sugary foods.
Again, that's me. I just find it easier not to fight against my body so I just don't eat them.
As Lemur notes, many refined carb foods are also fatty foods (desserts and chips for example), many aren't such as Cap'n Crunch. If I eat a bowl of Cap'n crunch, I want more and I'm hungry. If I eat an avocado for breakfast, which I did today, I'm fine until lunch, and I'll find it easier to have a nutritious lunch.
Again, I'm only speaking for me: it's just easier to reach MY goals when I limit the heavily refined carbs in my diet.
Got ya. I could totally overeat on nuts, and if baby back ribs count, I could easily eat more than twice my TDEE at one meal.
I don't think I get the types of cravings being discussed. I mean, I do crave certain foods sometimes, but it's really more of a hankering, than a "must have now!!" type thing. And it's more likely to be a fatty food than a sugary/carby food.
I believe we all have different bodies and brains. And I'm happy my tough to resist foods are refined carbs. I can easily limit or remove them. It would be harder for me to remove fats and meet my goals.
Oh yeah, chips. Frito Lay may well be the devil.
But again: Lay's Classic chips have 160 calories per serving, 90 of which (or over half) are from fat.
That's why they are so yummy. I would never overeat those nasty baked potato chips.
So on lifting days, I eat the carby, lower fat chips and on non-lifting days, the less carby, fattier chips. Probably overkill, but it works.
Baked Scoops ::sick::0 -
The craving argument being used in this discussion seems a bit spurious (not as pertains to the people making them, but rather in a universal sense). It's a popular line that carbs lead to more carb cravings, but I think it's more appropriate to say that tasty food is more-ish.
If I'm not mistaken, the results of the Yale Food Addiction survey point to pizza as the most often craved/more-ish food cited by respondents. A perfect combination of savory carb/protein/fat goodness.
The how and why of craving is probably quite complex. Right now, I'm sitting here craving a poached egg on toast. I'm hungry, so I'll go make it as soon as I'm done typing this My reason for craving it could be tied to good memories of having eaten it in the past, the fact that it's tasty, the fact that my stomach isn't quite settled and I associate it with my mother making it when I was feeling poorly as a child -- all sorts of things.
I have, at another time in my life, been simply mad for egg salad. And yes, eating it made me want more. The combination of the taste and texture? I kept wanting to experience it.
I always give anecdotes because I'm not of the belief that my experiences are unique. While I realize I'm just one person, I also realize that... I'm not super special or weirdly out of sync in how my body is. I'm going to assume that other people like me exist out there. I'm also going to assume that other people different from me exist out there. Which brings me back to my point:
The argument for cravings isn't, imo, a good one, because cravings following the ingestion of just carbs isn't a universal phenomenon AND because I'm not convinced that cravings are purely a biological construct.0 -
Are brownies a carb? If so, carbs are fine.0
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Yes, for me, carbs are the devil.0
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Therealobi1 wrote: »rjmudlax13 wrote: »dangit...why didn't anyone tell me there was a carbs are bad thread started. Now I need to waste hours of my life catching up.
*Grabs popcorn*
Here you go. You can share mine. ^_^
is it sugar free popcorn?
For this recurring argument? Hell no! XD0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »I have, at another time in my life, been simply mad for egg salad. And yes, eating it made me want more. The combination of the taste and texture? I kept wanting to experience it.
I always give anecdotes because I'm not of the belief that my experiences are unique. While I realize I'm just one person, I also realize that... I'm not super special or weirdly out of sync in how my body is. I'm going to assume that other people like me exist out there. I'm also going to assume that other people different from me exist out there. Which brings me back to my point:
The argument for cravings isn't, imo, a good one, because cravings following the ingestion of just carbs isn't a universal phenomenon AND because I'm not convinced that cravings are purely a biological construct.
You are not alone in that anecdote. Homemade egg salad...just one more spoonful. Another little bit. Just a tad more. Aaaaand...gone. I loved it wrapped in a lettuce leaf. Or plain. Or on thick slices of soft homemade bread. The horror when I really paid attention to the calories of what a serving should have been, versus the amount I ate until I felt satisfied.
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Seriously though, who actually hates carbs? Even if you do low carb (WHY WHY WHY?!), that doesn't mean you don't enjoy eating them. Carbs = good. Calorie = calorie.0
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