when did this obsession for women having big butts start, and why?
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OneHundredToLose wrote: »I just want to say that I fully support any woman who wants to be inelegant in this way. Elegance is overrated anyway
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michellemybelll wrote: »Rage_Phish wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »
Personally I'm not a fan of the J-Lo look, it just seems a bit inelegant to me, Eva Longoria has a much more elegant physique. My advice to any woman is just to get your body fat to a healthy % and follow a balanced and regular exercise routine - after that learn to accept yourself and be proud. And that goes for guys too - no one knew what a 'six pack' was before the 90s.
who doesnt love a nice bit of mansplaining
i *kitten* hate that made up word. it does nothing but set feminism back.
Well if it makes you feel any better I have personally coined the term "femsplaining" and will totally start lecturing a dude about his prostate if he ever tries to tell me that my cramps aren't "all that bad".0 -
What a weird thing to get mad about.0
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Inelegant? Really? Well then, I love being inelegant.
It's one thing to have a personal preference, but to down a person based off their natural body type? That's just cruel. It tells a lot about your character.0 -
Sure they had photoshop in the 50's duh! What was I thinking? No six packs before the 90's.
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Did someone say "dynamic tension"?mattyc772014 wrote: »Sure they had photoshop in the 50's duh! What was I thinking? No six packs before the 90's.
Must be hard work!
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michellemybelll wrote: »Rage_Phish wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »
Personally I'm not a fan of the J-Lo look, it just seems a bit inelegant to me, Eva Longoria has a much more elegant physique. My advice to any woman is just to get your body fat to a healthy % and follow a balanced and regular exercise routine - after that learn to accept yourself and be proud. And that goes for guys too - no one knew what a 'six pack' was before the 90s.
who doesnt love a nice bit of mansplaining
i *kitten* hate that made up word. it does nothing but set feminism back.
which word do you prefer?0 -
hamlet1222 wrote: »Okay, this has kind of gone off topic, and I'm horrified that this thread has started taking a racial tone.
I've already received 6 flags from people for my initial post apparently being abusive. I don't see how politely stating a personal preference in an example (a preference that is opposed to the popular norm of bigger is better) can be seen as abusive, but never mind.
Thanks to all those who gave a reasoned answer - I think the point about social trends constantly evolving and repeating is a great one.
You were actually kinda clueless that you never noticed the racial differences in this, so don't be horrified, lol. It's not a new thing. It's a very old thing. But if it's new in the mainstream US because of rappers and Jlo and Latina actresses, that's just because we are picking up from the cultures that have always been here. It took us long enough!hamlet1222 wrote: »thanks guys, gotta say though, I was hoping for more of a socio-anthropological analysis in the anwers
Which one, sociological, or anthropological?
If you're looking for a made up evo-psych reason, go ahead and make up your own, it will probably as valid as the average evo-psych argument.
More on the sociological side? Simple, women's fashion will always change in an never ending treadmill to force women to feel insecure in their bodies, and drive them towards doing things that represent their willingness to endure discomfort as a way of pleasing cis-het men's expectations. Squat-butts represent this trend very well in requiring yet even harder requirements than other things - a woman will have to butt in a fair length of time at the gym or need surgery if she isn't born with the attributes desired. It even gives society an added ability to spurn a woman as having failed to have that kind of butt for her own faults and lack of dedication because media perpetuates that any woman can get a butt with enough work and exercise - something hard to try to make women feel bad about with something like breasts that can't be altered much by exercise. So now not only can women be made to feel bad about their appearance, they can be made to feel bad about not doing something about it.
Is that what kind of explanation you wanted?
Funny But no. Women of other shapes have been told their butts were too big for so long that this can't represent something something added to spurn women. Unless you break down which women, of course. It's just a blending of cultures, imho.
White women can naturally have a big booty, too, before anyone gets upset that I'm leaving us out. In fact, I used to feel very bad back in the 80's, because my butt had obvious cheeks and the video and print girls' never did back then. OTOH, guys at school especially liked my booty, so real life didn't fit video ideals anyway!
They never had side ab lines in those girls back then, either. I can't believe I spent my youth thinking I was so abnormal with my extra lines and cheeks, lol! It's awful. Now our teeny-butt girls are going to go through the same thing, darnit.
(For an example of the butts back in the 80's, check out Billy Idol's 'Eyes Without a Face' video. You couldn't even tell front from back, really.)
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Thank you. I'm multiracial, but white passing. I've always had a more "mature" body as I was growing up. Men sexualized me before I even knew what sex was. At the same time, society shamed me into hating my hips, my butt, my curly hair, and many other parts of me. Being that I'm white passing, I've had the privilege of growing up not having my looks scrutinized even half as badly as other women of color. Personally I'm glad that other body types are being embraced, even if it means I have to see really poorly done fake *kitten* out there.
I just want to say that I relate to this experience a lot. I realize now that, as a child, a lot of the criticism that I faced about my body was because I wasn't quite passing well enough. People in my family didn't want to give the impression that we were anything but white and people outside of my family weren't quite sure which box to put me in.
I'm glad that things are a bit more open now and that there are more multi-racial and multi-ethnic people who growing up in a more accepting environment. The OP is thinking about beauty in such an outmoded and outdated way. It's old-fashioned, and frankly, sad.
~light-skinned Latina with a fabulously inelegant *kitten*0 -
My advice to you is stop staring at women's butts so much.0
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Well as a woman I know my worth is tied to what men think of my body rather than my sparkling wit, intelligence or personal and professional accomplishments. Therefore I am quite happy big butts are fashionable because I can achieve that with strength training and diet, unlike big boobs which could only be mine with surgery. Beats starving myself into irrelevance like during the 1980s and 90s.0
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I reckon is all about vogue. Now females ask for it because is the trend, in the 90s they wanted backcombed hair, in the 60s extra colored outfits, in the 50s Marilyn curves, in the 20s the right to vote (oh so annoying these women) . If you receive some visual messages of female celebrities with big boots then you slowly grow the desire to imitate them in order to be accepted socially. Then there is always part of the population that is advantaged by trends because it naturally has that x characteristic. Is the same for men; imitating haircuts or even wanting their eyebrows to be done (straight, bi, homo, doesn't count anymore, see ronaldo perfect look, I seriously want his beautiful mobile n) or for the fashion industry. Human brains are easily manipulated by outer inputs.
In the specific case, I don't know any girl that wants a bigger bottom, maybe a firmer one... so the question should be related to some numbers and percentages... all this women asking for big inelegant (you are so soft) side "b" maybe are not that many! God save tiny girls! Ad maiora 0 -
cafeaulait7 wrote: »hamlet1222 wrote: »Okay, this has kind of gone off topic, and I'm horrified that this thread has started taking a racial tone.
I've already received 6 flags from people for my initial post apparently being abusive. I don't see how politely stating a personal preference in an example (a preference that is opposed to the popular norm of bigger is better) can be seen as abusive, but never mind.
Thanks to all those who gave a reasoned answer - I think the point about social trends constantly evolving and repeating is a great one.
You were actually kinda clueless that you never noticed the racial differences in this, so don't be horrified, lol. It's not a new thing. It's a very old thing. But if it's new in the mainstream US because of rappers and Jlo and Latina actresses, that's just because we are picking up from the cultures that have always been here. It took us long enough!hamlet1222 wrote: »thanks guys, gotta say though, I was hoping for more of a socio-anthropological analysis in the anwers
Which one, sociological, or anthropological?
If you're looking for a made up evo-psych reason, go ahead and make up your own, it will probably as valid as the average evo-psych argument.
More on the sociological side? Simple, women's fashion will always change in an never ending treadmill to force women to feel insecure in their bodies, and drive them towards doing things that represent their willingness to endure discomfort as a way of pleasing cis-het men's expectations. Squat-butts represent this trend very well in requiring yet even harder requirements than other things - a woman will have to butt in a fair length of time at the gym or need surgery if she isn't born with the attributes desired. It even gives society an added ability to spurn a woman as having failed to have that kind of butt for her own faults and lack of dedication because media perpetuates that any woman can get a butt with enough work and exercise - something hard to try to make women feel bad about with something like breasts that can't be altered much by exercise. So now not only can women be made to feel bad about their appearance, they can be made to feel bad about not doing something about it.
Is that what kind of explanation you wanted?
Funny But no. Women of other shapes have been told their butts were too big for so long that this can't represent something something added to spurn women. Unless you break down which women, of course. It's just a blending of cultures, imho.
White women can naturally have a big booty, too, before anyone gets upset that I'm leaving us out. In fact, I used to feel very bad back in the 80's, because my butt had obvious cheeks and the video and print girls' never did back then. OTOH, guys at school especially liked my booty, so real life didn't fit video ideals anyway!
They never had side ab lines in those girls back then, either. I can't believe I spent my youth thinking I was so abnormal with my extra lines and cheeks, lol! It's awful. Now our teeny-butt girls are going to go through the same thing, darnit.
(For an example of the butts back in the 80's, check out Billy Idol's 'Eyes Without a Face' video. You couldn't even tell front from back, really.)
To me, the ideas of fashion are usually going to be aimed at presenting what becomes hard to attain. In the eras when human starvation was common, having a certain amount of girth was desirable. As food has become plentiful and maintaining a low body weight becomes hard, that has become desirable. Being able to stay thin represents in part the classism of conspicuous consumption in having the time to plan meals, use time on exercise, and having acess to nutritional education.
I don't see large bottoms being about multi-culturalism because the ideals included with still tend to be about having "an itty bitty waist, but round thing in your face" to quote Sir Mix-A-Lot. Having both aspects at once represents something hard to obtain.0 -
Too much attention on your butt. There's a way to fix that.
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oh_happy_day wrote: »I'm going to ignore the unsolicited advice you've decided to bequeath upon us ladies, we're just so grateful to hear your views on how elegant our physiques are or aren't.
My guess is that the current obsession is big butts is multifaceted and depends how deep you want to dig into gender, race, fashion and culture.
There has always been an 'ideal' physique in women - tiny waists (corsets!) in Victorian times, Twiggy was the It Girl in the 1960s, tall and Amazonian in the 80s, the waif look of the 90s, low rise jeans and defined abs in the early 2000s, and right now it's all about hourglass shapes with exaggerated hip to waist ratio. There's always something that we're all meant to aspire to. Currently we're meant to be slender enough to have a thigh gap but still have a booty....sure, that's realistic. Fitspo and instagram fit models are everywhere, reinforcing the slim with a booty ideal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrp0zJZu0a4
Buzzfeed did a cool video on this.hamlet1222 wrote: »I see a lot of questions from women wanting to get their posteriors bigger, getting advice on doing squats etc, and it leaves me wondering when did this obsession start? 20 years ago we had the likes of Cindy Crawford and Pamela Anderson, and none of them had disproportionately large backsides.
If you look back further than 20 years you'd probably find that curves and butts have been popular for a long time. Check out paintings from the Renaissance. Curves were indicative of fertility, health and enough wealth to feed yourself properly. From the early 20th century, the ideal form started to become more slender. Women stopped wearing corsets routinely - metal was required for war production, it became more socially acceptable for women to be physically active. Fashions changed along with this, think about the difference between Victorian era clothing and the flapper dresses of the 1920s.
Then there are people who suggest that the obsession with big butts are an example of a feature which is generally associated with black women but has only became fashionable once appropriated by white culture. See also: baby hairs, twerking, 'ghetto'/rap style, bantu knots etc. Here are articles discussing that aspect. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/23/why-black-bum-only-good-white-skin-cultural-appropriation
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/13/why-are-people-suddenly-so-concerned-about-hijacking-black-culture.html
http://www.beautyredefined.net/beauty-whitewashed-how-white-ideals-exclude-women-of-color/hamlet1222 wrote: »
Personally I'm not a fan of the J-Lo look, it just seems a bit inelegant to me, Eva Longoria has a much more elegant physique. My advice to any woman is just to get your body fat to a healthy % and follow a balanced and regular exercise routine - after that learn to accept yourself and be proud. And that goes for guys too - no one knew what a 'six pack' was before the 90s.
In summary, if you're not a fan of big butts you will probably only need to wait 5-10 years and there'll be another idealized physique.
Awesome post. thank you.0 -
Idk jeans are hell for women with big butts lol speaking from my experience. I always hated my large butt and when I was 40 pounds over wieght I felt huge haha sooo I appreciate the big butt song lol0
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Did someone say "dynamic tension"?mattyc772014 wrote: »Sure they had photoshop in the 50's duh! What was I thinking? No six packs before the 90's.
Must be hard work!
He's been neglecting his quads
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Astonishing amount of negativity for someone having suggested we accept ourselves as we are. And here I've been naively thinking that self-acceptance is a cornerstone of physical and mental well-being.
Thank you for that. I think far, far too few people embrace that philosophy.hamlet1222 wrote: »My advice to any woman is just to get your body fat to a healthy % and follow a balanced and regular exercise routine - after that learn to accept yourself and be proud.
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Bookworm1860 wrote: »Astonishing amount of negativity for someone having suggested we accept ourselves as we are. And here I've been naively thinking that self-acceptance is a cornerstone of physical and mental well-being.
Thank you for that. I think far, far too few people embrace that philosophy.hamlet1222 wrote: »My advice to any woman is just to get your body fat to a healthy % and follow a balanced and regular exercise routine - after that learn to accept yourself and be proud.
Oh please. Stating that JLo's natural body build is inelegant does not promote self-acceptance or a philosophy of self pride. It merely suggests that the OP had an opinion that he wanted everybody to know about. To paraphrase tomatoey, who cares.0 -
honestly im happy about it !! used to get picked on in school because i had a bubble butt ..and know all the girls that tormented me about it are trying to get one
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One man's inelegant is another man's...extremely elegant. Take from it what you will, but attraction is subjective.0
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okay, I was hoping this thread would tail off, but it seems to be out of my hands - and I have thought about asking the moderators to delete it, but it wouldn't really be fair to people who've obviously spent a lot of time reading and contributing to it - especially the Shakespeare guys response - that was a true work of art.
I just want to apologize to any women I offended with my foolish choice of words in the original post. I should never have used the word inelegant. I don't think there was anything wrong with stating an honest preference, but it shouldn't have been unsolicited and it was wrong to imply that my particular preference is something women should strive for (it is indeed none of my business) - although it's a shame people missed my last paragraph (which bookworm didn't - thank you).
I would like to point out though, that it seems fine for people to be saying how much they like big butts and the media applauds it, but how does that make skinny women feel - who no matter what they do can't get such a posterior? Had I said the opposite to what I said, would I have received equal condemnation?
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There's a difference between saying "I prefer big butts" to "your big butt is inelegant and you should change it", which is what YOU said.0
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Are you testing us?0
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hamlet1222 wrote: »okay, I was hoping this thread would tail off, but it seems to be out of my hands - and I have thought about asking the moderators to delete it, but it wouldn't really be fair to people who've obviously spent a lot of time reading and contributing to it - especially the Shakespeare guys response - that was a true work of art.
I just want to apologize to any women I offended with my foolish choice of words in the original post. I should never have used the word inelegant. I don't think there was anything wrong with stating an honest preference, but it shouldn't have been unsolicited and it was wrong to imply that my particular preference is something women should strive for (it is indeed none of my business) - although it's a shame people missed my last paragraph (which bookworm didn't - thank you).
I would like to point out though, that it seems fine for people to be saying how much they like big butts and the media applauds it, but how does that make skinny women feel - who no matter what they do can't get such a posterior? Had I said the opposite to what I said, would I have received equal condemnation?
I think if you had made a post claiming that any perfectly normal kind of butt was "inelegant" you would have received the same type of response. I've got the kind of body you find displeasing and I'm not sure why you felt the need to say what you did. Honest preferences are perfectly fine (I've got them too), but when you've got to degenerate groups of people to state them, it is often going to alienate people.
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hamlet1222 wrote: »okay, I was hoping this thread would tail off, but it seems to be out of my hands - and I have thought about asking the moderators to delete it, but it wouldn't really be fair to people who've obviously spent a lot of time reading and contributing to it - especially the Shakespeare guys response - that was a true work of art.
I just want to apologize to any women I offended with my foolish choice of words in the original post. I should never have used the word inelegant. I don't think there was anything wrong with stating an honest preference, but it shouldn't have been unsolicited and it was wrong to imply that my particular preference is something women should strive for (it is indeed none of my business) - although it's a shame people missed my last paragraph (which bookworm didn't - thank you).
I would like to point out though, that it seems fine for people to be saying how much they like big butts and the media applauds it, but how does that make skinny women feel - who no matter what they do can't get such a posterior? Had I said the opposite to what I said, would I have received equal condemnation?
Yes.
It has nothing to do with the fact that bigger butts are more popular right now. There is a difference between saying "I prefer <insert body type>" and "<insert body type> is inelegant". Your post went past expressing your personal preference in a body type and into insulting another. I doubt many would object if you had just stated that you prefer a certain body type.
No one missed your last paragraph. To me, that was probably the tipping point. I know it was meant to be a positive thing but, to me, if came off condescending, especially in the context of the rest of the post.0 -
@hamlet1222 First, thank you for your apology. It is rare that people apologize around here. So I appreciate it.
I don't offend easily, but as a woman with a big old natural booty despite how healthy or fit I am, I did take offense to your original post. As many others stated, it wasn't your preference that got me, but it was the implication that I can't be a healthy body weight or person if I naturally have one. When I lose weight she is the last to go. And even when she gets smaller she is still disproportionately larger than the rest of my body. I can't change my genetics.
Again, I don't think anyone was offended that you simply stated a preference and you are in fact entitled to that preference. It doesn't bother me a bit that some men want a woman with a smaller bottom. As you stated above, it was the implication that we should strive for that body.
I saw that you stated everyone should embrace their appearance but it did not seem to go along with the rest of what you were saying so it came across as disingenuous and a total contradiction.
To answer your questions, I don't think women that don't have a big butt are offended that people make songs about liking butts or that women with them are deemed beautiful. It does not mean that those that do not have a big bottom are not beautiful too. The reason it is being shouted from the roof top now is because, for a period, mainstream America, frowned on women that were more round on the bottom. These songs and the new booty craze is just a celebration of America embracing that body type again. That is not saying that you should get surgery to be something you aren't.
Had you said the opposite-meaning you think women that have small butts are inelegant would I personally have been offended. No. But would I have thought it was jetky and rude? Yes. Not sure if I would have had made the time to respond to it. Would others have responded and been offended? Yes. So overall, I think it's never a good idea, nice, necessary, or accepted to state a preference and simultaneously insult others.
I hope I have not come across as demeaning towards you. I'm hoping to answer your questions and express my point of view in the most respectful way possible.
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