Could you spend a day without any sugar?
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I have never been able to accomplish no sugar, but once I had 20-25 grams and I was just miserable. Now i eat a dark chocolate bar whenever I can get my hands on one.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
Maybe it makes them feel bad? Maybe they like to experiment? Sugar is fun to eat, but no one will suffer ill health without it.
Eating no veggies isn't good for you. Yeah, there are ways to make up the micronutrients (although I suspect they aren't as good), but the vast majority of people who mostly cut out veggies don't actually eat lots of organ meats and the like. (And the traditional Inuit diet, while not keto, doesn't compete with the blue zone diets anyway.)
So claiming eating no veggies is perfectly healthy seems inaccurate.
I think this is more of an opinion than a proven fact.
I do eat veggies. I like them and think they are good for me, but I'm not sure that eating no veggies has been proven harmful for people.
While I agree with this being an opinion, I'm also thinking that no veggies (or fruits) could be harmful in a small sense because....there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
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Maybe it wouldn't be unhealthy to not have veggies in your life, but it wouldn't be OPTIMAL.0
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Maybe it wouldn't be unhealthy to not have veggies in your life, but it wouldn't be OPTIMAL.
I find the dogma that low carb zealots spout in RE to vegetables not really being necessary or important to be disturbing at minimum...it's counter to basic common sense. I'm pretty sure vegetables have been pretty much proven to be very good for you...and you'd be hard pressed to get all of your vitamins and minerals and other micros without heavy supplementation.0 -
Nope. I would not want to do it. Would not even attempt it.0
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<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.0 -
I find the idea of eating ZERO sugar to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY sugar.
I find the idea of eating ZERO fruits and vegetables to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY fruits and vegetables.
I find the idea of eating ZERO carbs to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY carbs.
Have I sufficiently covered all the ridiculous extremes?0 -
juggernaut1974 wrote: »I find the idea of eating ZERO sugar to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY sugar.
I find the idea of eating ZERO fruits and vegetables to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY fruits and vegetables.
I find the idea of eating ZERO carbs to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY carbs.
Have I sufficiently covered all the ridiculous extremes?
You didn't say anything about not eating ONLY McDonald's, so clearly you're advocating for eating only McDonald's. Typical food industry shillery.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »juggernaut1974 wrote: »I find the idea of eating ZERO sugar to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY sugar.
I find the idea of eating ZERO fruits and vegetables to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY fruits and vegetables.
I find the idea of eating ZERO carbs to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY carbs.
Have I sufficiently covered all the ridiculous extremes?
You didn't say anything about not eating ONLY McDonald's, so clearly you're advocating for eating only McDonald's. Typical food industry shillery.
typical juggernaut....0 -
<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...0 -
Queenmunchy wrote: »I've read about these zero carb diets. It's so not for me, but this woman has a blog on it after being zero carb for many years www.myzerocarblife
The thing is, even though it's minute, she isn't "zero carb" either. She eats eggs which have .6 carbs per egg. That's just one example.
I think she says that she had eggs during her pregnancy, but has since gone back to just meat like she had before. She had at least more than one day, but either way - it's so bizarre to me!
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janejellyroll wrote: »juggernaut1974 wrote: »I find the idea of eating ZERO sugar to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY sugar.
I find the idea of eating ZERO fruits and vegetables to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY fruits and vegetables.
I find the idea of eating ZERO carbs to be equally silly to the idea of eating ONLY carbs.
Have I sufficiently covered all the ridiculous extremes?
You didn't say anything about not eating ONLY McDonald's, so clearly you're advocating for eating only McDonald's. Typical food industry shillery.
Shhhhhh don't out me or I'll lose my McKickback0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Maybe it wouldn't be unhealthy to not have veggies in your life, but it wouldn't be OPTIMAL.
I find the dogma that low carb zealots spout in RE to vegetables not really being necessary or important to be disturbing at minimum...it's counter to basic common sense. I'm pretty sure vegetables have been pretty much proven to be very good for you...and you'd be hard pressed to get all of your vitamins and minerals and other micros without heavy supplementation.
Exactly.0 -
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies.
Oh, I agree. I find the need to limit vegetables or worry about eating onions or carrots or brussels sprouts vs. some others something I would never do, but one can certainly eat normal amounts of vegetables (eat as many as most do in non low carb diets, meet recommended amounts if one is careful and probably somewhat choosy) within a keto diet.
What I find odd and zealotry is the constant stress on vegetables NOT being important or necessary and NO carbs being possible and healthy by some of the low carb advocates here, and I think it's that kind of rhetoric (as well as comments about the low carb group doing a carnivorous challenge) that drives the idea that low carb people don't (or eat very few). From many of the comments you'd think that lower carb is always better, even if the carbs are from vegetables (and certainly don't bring up fruit!).
I don't assume most low carbers share those ideas.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
I know, which is why I posted another side of low carb/keto. Just like there are variations on moderation diets, there are variations on low carb. Can someone live without veggies and be healthy? Yep. Can they do it without carbs or meat or sugar or any other food/group? Yep. It's harder, takes more effort, but that's their choice. I don't have any reason to vilify carbs in general, just for me. For me, most carb-y foods are de debil. But that's just for me. Low carb has benefits and drawbacks, just like everything else in life. Just thought I'd throw in my three cents.
TL;DR... Not everyone who eats low carb is anti-carb.0 -
I think the point was that you were making fun of things that weren't said by anyone but you.cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »feck veggies...they're obviously horrible for you...
all hail no carbs....death to carbs as they are the greatest of all demons...die, die, die....
That is really silly, a complete exaggeration of what has actually been said here and not remotely close to anyone's point.
I'm pretty sure nobody has ever exaggerated or used sarcasm on MFP ever....
What do you think when you read this?...
Bonnie: I miss the change of seasons.
Brad: Right, we NEED SNOW! We should have piles of it to shovel and it would be great if it could be TEN DEGREES below zero outside. Sunshine is awful! Dark skies are REQUIRED for good winters! Snow and ice are SO GREAT!! Minnesota winters are so much better than Florida ones!!
Do you, as a reasonable person, think that Bonnie seems foolish?0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?
Zero sugar was specifically meant to mean zero vegetables in OP's question.
As for the health issues, there are tons of studies that show that people who eat lots of vegetables and fruit have better health results -- correlation studies, of course, but similar to the evidence that eating lots of sugar is bad for you (which of course excessive sugar is).
Also, I said that I was skeptical that people who ate no vegetables ate other foods that provided all the benefits of vegetables. While it is theoretically possible to find other food sources for the micronutrients we've identified (although call me skeptical that anyone who cuts out veggies is actually doing that), those are not the only benefits that exist in foods, which is why people like Marion Nestle caution about having too limited a diet (although she doesn't mean there's a risk from cutting out candy, obviously).
Edit: I just think it's ironic that people who like to go on and on about how their choices are allegedly so much healthier also are so insistent that vegetables are absolutely unnecessary and not important.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?
really? i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most people who aren't eating their veg and fruit are pretty deficient nutrient wise and would thus suffer adverse consequences. the vast majority of the population doesn't know jack about actual nutrition nor do most new users to MFP...so i think suggesting that vegetables and whatnot aren't necessary to a healthy diet is somewhat disturbing....but hey...that's just me...carry on.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »feck veggies...they're obviously horrible for you...
all hail no carbs....death to carbs as they are the greatest of all demons...die, die, die....
That is really silly, a complete exaggeration of what has actually been said here and not remotely close to anyone's point.
So, you eat organ meats daily to get your dose of micronutrients then?0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Maybe it wouldn't be unhealthy to not have veggies in your life, but it wouldn't be OPTIMAL.
I find the dogma that low carb zealots spout in RE to vegetables not really being necessary or important to be disturbing at minimum...it's counter to basic common sense. I'm pretty sure vegetables have been pretty much proven to be very good for you...and you'd be hard pressed to get all of your vitamins and minerals and other micros without heavy supplementation.
I find it to be... evasive. Those avoiding veggies rarely consume the compensatory organ meats which would provide the necessary micronutrients in lieu of veggies that they claim their diet would allow for.
Technically, they don't need the veggies for their vitamins and minerals, but I don't see them scoffing down the offal to get what they need.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Maybe it wouldn't be unhealthy to not have veggies in your life, but it wouldn't be OPTIMAL.
I find the dogma that low carb zealots spout in RE to vegetables not really being necessary or important to be disturbing at minimum...it's counter to basic common sense. I'm pretty sure vegetables have been pretty much proven to be very good for you...and you'd be hard pressed to get all of your vitamins and minerals and other micros without heavy supplementation.
I find it to be... evasive. Those avoiding veggies rarely consume the compensatory organ meats which would provide the necessary micronutrients in lieu of veggies that they claim their diet would allow for.
Technically, they don't need the veggies for their vitamins and minerals, but I don't see them scoffing down the offal to get what they need.
I would also assume that the average Joe/Jane doesn't even know they could eat organ meat for their vitamins and minerals. The gen pop isn't exactly well versed in matters of nutrition...if they were, we wouldn't have all of these problems.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Maybe it makes them feel bad? Maybe they like to experiment? Sugar is fun to eat, but no one will suffer ill health without it.
Eating no veggies isn't good for you. Yeah, there are ways to make up the micronutrients (although I suspect they aren't as good), but the vast majority of people who mostly cut out veggies don't actually eat lots of organ meats and the like. (And the traditional Inuit diet, while not keto, doesn't compete with the blue zone diets anyway.)
So claiming eating no veggies is perfectly healthy seems inaccurate.
EVERY nutrient in vegetables is available elsewhere, vegetables are not the only easy source of life sustaining nutrients. Eating no veggies is not bad for you, you just need to increase familiarity of nutrient content of other food sources to make it easy and healthy.
Dem phytochemicals tho'.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Maybe it makes them feel bad? Maybe they like to experiment? Sugar is fun to eat, but no one will suffer ill health without it.
Eating no veggies isn't good for you. Yeah, there are ways to make up the micronutrients (although I suspect they aren't as good), but the vast majority of people who mostly cut out veggies don't actually eat lots of organ meats and the like. (And the traditional Inuit diet, while not keto, doesn't compete with the blue zone diets anyway.)
So claiming eating no veggies is perfectly healthy seems inaccurate.
EVERY nutrient in vegetables is available elsewhere, vegetables are not the only easy source of life sustaining nutrients. Eating no veggies is not bad for you, you just need to increase familiarity of nutrient content of other food sources to make it easy and healthy.
Dem phytochemicals tho'/
Ah. The buck does stop there, doesn't it?0 -
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PeachyCarol wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
Maybe it makes them feel bad? Maybe they like to experiment? Sugar is fun to eat, but no one will suffer ill health without it.
Eating no veggies isn't good for you. Yeah, there are ways to make up the micronutrients (although I suspect they aren't as good), but the vast majority of people who mostly cut out veggies don't actually eat lots of organ meats and the like. (And the traditional Inuit diet, while not keto, doesn't compete with the blue zone diets anyway.)
So claiming eating no veggies is perfectly healthy seems inaccurate.
EVERY nutrient in vegetables is available elsewhere, vegetables are not the only easy source of life sustaining nutrients. Eating no veggies is not bad for you, you just need to increase familiarity of nutrient content of other food sources to make it easy and healthy.
Dem phytochemicals tho'/
Ah. The buck does stop there, doesn't it?
I don't believe you can get them from liver, and if you get them from a supplement, the supplement is going to be ground up and refined vegetables, isn't it?
You could argue if they count as nutrients or not.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Maybe it wouldn't be unhealthy to not have veggies in your life, but it wouldn't be OPTIMAL.
I find the dogma that low carb zealots spout in RE to vegetables not really being necessary or important to be disturbing at minimum...it's counter to basic common sense. I'm pretty sure vegetables have been pretty much proven to be very good for you...and you'd be hard pressed to get all of your vitamins and minerals and other micros without heavy supplementation.
who needs nutrition when you have eliminated all carbs? The no carb affect covers for the no micros, and actually increases your health!0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?
really? i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most people who aren't eating their veg and fruit are pretty deficient nutrient wise and would thus suffer adverse consequences. the vast majority of the population doesn't know jack about actual nutrition nor do most new users to MFP...so i think suggesting that vegetables and whatnot aren't necessary to a healthy diet is somewhat disturbing....but hey...that's just me...carry on.
If you're claiming that what someone said is wrong and that people are going to suffer adverse consequences even in cases where they are getting those same nutrients from other sources, I'd like to see a study backing up that claim. Anecdotally, I know several people who do not include fruits and veggies as a staple in their diets and who have no adverse health issues or are nutrient-deficient, so I'm interested to see the research supporting your claim that these are necessary for a healthy diet.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?
really? i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most people who aren't eating their veg and fruit are pretty deficient nutrient wise and would thus suffer adverse consequences. the vast majority of the population doesn't know jack about actual nutrition nor do most new users to MFP...so i think suggesting that vegetables and whatnot aren't necessary to a healthy diet is somewhat disturbing....but hey...that's just me...carry on.
If you're claiming that what someone said is wrong and that people are going to suffer adverse consequences even in cases where they are getting those same nutrients from other sources, I'd like to see a study backing up that claim. Anecdotally, I know several people who do not include fruits and veggies as a staple in their diets and who have no adverse health issues or are nutrient-deficient, so I'm interested to see the research supporting your claim that these are necessary for a healthy diet.
yea, that poster clearly said if they were not getting their nutrients there would be adverse health affects. He never made reference to alternate sources...so not really sure where you are going with this.0 -
I think constipation has some pretty uncomfortable harmful effects on the body, ever hear of hemorrhoids, and colon cancer?I think this is more of an opinion than a proven fact.
I do eat veggies. I like them and think they are good for me, but I'm not sure that eating no veggies has been proven harmful for people.
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