Could you spend a day without any sugar?
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Replies
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cwolfman13 wrote: »Maybe it wouldn't be unhealthy to not have veggies in your life, but it wouldn't be OPTIMAL.
I find the dogma that low carb zealots spout in RE to vegetables not really being necessary or important to be disturbing at minimum...it's counter to basic common sense. I'm pretty sure vegetables have been pretty much proven to be very good for you...and you'd be hard pressed to get all of your vitamins and minerals and other micros without heavy supplementation.
I find it to be... evasive. Those avoiding veggies rarely consume the compensatory organ meats which would provide the necessary micronutrients in lieu of veggies that they claim their diet would allow for.
Technically, they don't need the veggies for their vitamins and minerals, but I don't see them scoffing down the offal to get what they need.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Maybe it wouldn't be unhealthy to not have veggies in your life, but it wouldn't be OPTIMAL.
I find the dogma that low carb zealots spout in RE to vegetables not really being necessary or important to be disturbing at minimum...it's counter to basic common sense. I'm pretty sure vegetables have been pretty much proven to be very good for you...and you'd be hard pressed to get all of your vitamins and minerals and other micros without heavy supplementation.
I find it to be... evasive. Those avoiding veggies rarely consume the compensatory organ meats which would provide the necessary micronutrients in lieu of veggies that they claim their diet would allow for.
Technically, they don't need the veggies for their vitamins and minerals, but I don't see them scoffing down the offal to get what they need.
I would also assume that the average Joe/Jane doesn't even know they could eat organ meat for their vitamins and minerals. The gen pop isn't exactly well versed in matters of nutrition...if they were, we wouldn't have all of these problems.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Maybe it makes them feel bad? Maybe they like to experiment? Sugar is fun to eat, but no one will suffer ill health without it.
Eating no veggies isn't good for you. Yeah, there are ways to make up the micronutrients (although I suspect they aren't as good), but the vast majority of people who mostly cut out veggies don't actually eat lots of organ meats and the like. (And the traditional Inuit diet, while not keto, doesn't compete with the blue zone diets anyway.)
So claiming eating no veggies is perfectly healthy seems inaccurate.
EVERY nutrient in vegetables is available elsewhere, vegetables are not the only easy source of life sustaining nutrients. Eating no veggies is not bad for you, you just need to increase familiarity of nutrient content of other food sources to make it easy and healthy.
Dem phytochemicals tho'.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Maybe it makes them feel bad? Maybe they like to experiment? Sugar is fun to eat, but no one will suffer ill health without it.
Eating no veggies isn't good for you. Yeah, there are ways to make up the micronutrients (although I suspect they aren't as good), but the vast majority of people who mostly cut out veggies don't actually eat lots of organ meats and the like. (And the traditional Inuit diet, while not keto, doesn't compete with the blue zone diets anyway.)
So claiming eating no veggies is perfectly healthy seems inaccurate.
EVERY nutrient in vegetables is available elsewhere, vegetables are not the only easy source of life sustaining nutrients. Eating no veggies is not bad for you, you just need to increase familiarity of nutrient content of other food sources to make it easy and healthy.
Dem phytochemicals tho'/
Ah. The buck does stop there, doesn't it?0 -
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PeachyCarol wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
Maybe it makes them feel bad? Maybe they like to experiment? Sugar is fun to eat, but no one will suffer ill health without it.
Eating no veggies isn't good for you. Yeah, there are ways to make up the micronutrients (although I suspect they aren't as good), but the vast majority of people who mostly cut out veggies don't actually eat lots of organ meats and the like. (And the traditional Inuit diet, while not keto, doesn't compete with the blue zone diets anyway.)
So claiming eating no veggies is perfectly healthy seems inaccurate.
EVERY nutrient in vegetables is available elsewhere, vegetables are not the only easy source of life sustaining nutrients. Eating no veggies is not bad for you, you just need to increase familiarity of nutrient content of other food sources to make it easy and healthy.
Dem phytochemicals tho'/
Ah. The buck does stop there, doesn't it?
I don't believe you can get them from liver, and if you get them from a supplement, the supplement is going to be ground up and refined vegetables, isn't it?
You could argue if they count as nutrients or not.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Maybe it wouldn't be unhealthy to not have veggies in your life, but it wouldn't be OPTIMAL.
I find the dogma that low carb zealots spout in RE to vegetables not really being necessary or important to be disturbing at minimum...it's counter to basic common sense. I'm pretty sure vegetables have been pretty much proven to be very good for you...and you'd be hard pressed to get all of your vitamins and minerals and other micros without heavy supplementation.
who needs nutrition when you have eliminated all carbs? The no carb affect covers for the no micros, and actually increases your health!0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?
really? i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most people who aren't eating their veg and fruit are pretty deficient nutrient wise and would thus suffer adverse consequences. the vast majority of the population doesn't know jack about actual nutrition nor do most new users to MFP...so i think suggesting that vegetables and whatnot aren't necessary to a healthy diet is somewhat disturbing....but hey...that's just me...carry on.
If you're claiming that what someone said is wrong and that people are going to suffer adverse consequences even in cases where they are getting those same nutrients from other sources, I'd like to see a study backing up that claim. Anecdotally, I know several people who do not include fruits and veggies as a staple in their diets and who have no adverse health issues or are nutrient-deficient, so I'm interested to see the research supporting your claim that these are necessary for a healthy diet.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?
really? i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most people who aren't eating their veg and fruit are pretty deficient nutrient wise and would thus suffer adverse consequences. the vast majority of the population doesn't know jack about actual nutrition nor do most new users to MFP...so i think suggesting that vegetables and whatnot aren't necessary to a healthy diet is somewhat disturbing....but hey...that's just me...carry on.
If you're claiming that what someone said is wrong and that people are going to suffer adverse consequences even in cases where they are getting those same nutrients from other sources, I'd like to see a study backing up that claim. Anecdotally, I know several people who do not include fruits and veggies as a staple in their diets and who have no adverse health issues or are nutrient-deficient, so I'm interested to see the research supporting your claim that these are necessary for a healthy diet.
yea, that poster clearly said if they were not getting their nutrients there would be adverse health affects. He never made reference to alternate sources...so not really sure where you are going with this.0 -
I think constipation has some pretty uncomfortable harmful effects on the body, ever hear of hemorrhoids, and colon cancer?I think this is more of an opinion than a proven fact.
I do eat veggies. I like them and think they are good for me, but I'm not sure that eating no veggies has been proven harmful for people.
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Seriously, are we really advocating that fruits and veggies are not necessary for a healthy diet? And we are leaving that out there for the random lurkers on MFP to see, the ones who aren't doing a ketogenic diet with strict controls on what they are choosing to eat, people who aren't supplementing their micronutrients with other sources, as well as the people eating a SAD who are now going to interpret that that "no, you don't need to eat fruits and vegetables, lots of people on MFP said they aren't necessary for a healthy diet.".
Every time the moderation vs elimination debate comes up people get bashed if they don't qualify a statement of "eat whatever you like in moderation" with "focusing primarily on nutrient dense foods". So I find leaving the statement of "fruits and vegetables aren't necessary for a healthy diet" to be extremely unhelpful and potentially dangerous without providing all of the various caveats that one would need to follow in order to take that zero fruit and vegetable diet to the healthy level again...
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cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?
really? i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most people who aren't eating their veg and fruit are pretty deficient nutrient wise and would thus suffer adverse consequences. the vast majority of the population doesn't know jack about actual nutrition nor do most new users to MFP...so i think suggesting that vegetables and whatnot aren't necessary to a healthy diet is somewhat disturbing....but hey...that's just me...carry on.
If you're claiming that what someone said is wrong and that people are going to suffer adverse consequences even in cases where they are getting those same nutrients from other sources, I'd like to see a study backing up that claim. Anecdotally, I know several people who do not include fruits and veggies as a staple in their diets and who have no adverse health issues or are nutrient-deficient, so I'm interested to see the research supporting your claim that these are necessary for a healthy diet.
sigh...
i'm claiming that people who don't get their nutrients are at risk for adverse effects. i'd further wager that most people (general populace) who doesn't eat their fruit and veg are not getting proper nutrients...just look around you...
anecdotally, my dad rarely touched fruit or vegetables...he died of a massive heart attack at 62 that was largely attributable to his *kitten* diet...anecdotally.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?
really? i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most people who aren't eating their veg and fruit are pretty deficient nutrient wise and would thus suffer adverse consequences. the vast majority of the population doesn't know jack about actual nutrition nor do most new users to MFP...so i think suggesting that vegetables and whatnot aren't necessary to a healthy diet is somewhat disturbing....but hey...that's just me...carry on.
If you're claiming that what someone said is wrong and that people are going to suffer adverse consequences even in cases where they are getting those same nutrients from other sources, I'd like to see a study backing up that claim. Anecdotally, I know several people who do not include fruits and veggies as a staple in their diets and who have no adverse health issues or are nutrient-deficient, so I'm interested to see the research supporting your claim that these are necessary for a healthy diet.
yea, that poster clearly said if they were not getting their nutrients there would be adverse health affects. He never made reference to alternate sources...so not really sure where you are going with this.
moderator is baiting?0 -
daniwilford wrote: »
I think constipation has some pretty uncomfortable harmful effects on the body, ever hear of hemorrhoids, and colon cancer?I think this is more of an opinion than a proven fact.
I do eat veggies. I like them and think they are good for me, but I'm not sure that eating no veggies has been proven harmful for people.
I'll add one. How about diverticulosis?0 -
daniwilford wrote: »
I think constipation has some pretty uncomfortable harmful effects on the body, ever hear of hemorrhoids, and colon cancer?I think this is more of an opinion than a proven fact.
I do eat veggies. I like them and think they are good for me, but I'm not sure that eating no veggies has been proven harmful for people.
I'll add one. How about diverticulosis?
The cure for that is to have they effected part of the colon removed. I would rather eat some fiber, where we find fiber? Plants! Eat some plants already.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?
really? i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most people who aren't eating their veg and fruit are pretty deficient nutrient wise and would thus suffer adverse consequences. the vast majority of the population doesn't know jack about actual nutrition nor do most new users to MFP...so i think suggesting that vegetables and whatnot aren't necessary to a healthy diet is somewhat disturbing....but hey...that's just me...carry on.
If you're claiming that what someone said is wrong and that people are going to suffer adverse consequences even in cases where they are getting those same nutrients from other sources, I'd like to see a study backing up that claim. Anecdotally, I know several people who do not include fruits and veggies as a staple in their diets and who have no adverse health issues or are nutrient-deficient, so I'm interested to see the research supporting your claim that these are necessary for a healthy diet.
yea, that poster clearly said if they were not getting their nutrients there would be adverse health affects. He never made reference to alternate sources...so not really sure where you are going with this.
The people being accused of low carb/keto dogma have very clearly stated in this thread that veggies are not necessary and the nutrients can be obtained from other sources, so I'm left wondering where others who are stating people will be nutrient deficient without veggies are going with their statements. It's right here:lemurcat12 wrote: »
Maybe it makes them feel bad? Maybe they like to experiment? Sugar is fun to eat, but no one will suffer ill health without it.
Eating no veggies isn't good for you. Yeah, there are ways to make up the micronutrients (although I suspect they aren't as good), but the vast majority of people who mostly cut out veggies don't actually eat lots of organ meats and the like. (And the traditional Inuit diet, while not keto, doesn't compete with the blue zone diets anyway.)
So claiming eating no veggies is perfectly healthy seems inaccurate.
EVERY nutrient in vegetables is available elsewhere, vegetables are not the only easy source of life sustaining nutrients. Eating no veggies is not bad for you, you just need to increase familiarity of nutrient content of other food sources to make it easy and healthy.
It seems like the veggie argument goalpost is being moved all over the place in this discussion. The low carb people are saying that sugar, including the sugar in fruit or veggies, is not necessary for good health because the body can produce its own. No one is saying the nutrients are unnecessary, they are just stating that they can be obtained from other sources.
Unless someone has a study that can prove that fruits and veggies are absolutely necessary to a healthy diet and that people who do not eat fruits and veggies, even if obtaining nutrients from alternative sources, will suffer adverse health effects, then it seems this discussion is more about people's personal food preferences than the necessity of certain foods being included in a diet based on science.0 -
Are you posting this as a mod or as a user?cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?
really? i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most people who aren't eating their veg and fruit are pretty deficient nutrient wise and would thus suffer adverse consequences. the vast majority of the population doesn't know jack about actual nutrition nor do most new users to MFP...so i think suggesting that vegetables and whatnot aren't necessary to a healthy diet is somewhat disturbing....but hey...that's just me...carry on.
If you're claiming that what someone said is wrong and that people are going to suffer adverse consequences even in cases where they are getting those same nutrients from other sources, I'd like to see a study backing up that claim. Anecdotally, I know several people who do not include fruits and veggies as a staple in their diets and who have no adverse health issues or are nutrient-deficient, so I'm interested to see the research supporting your claim that these are necessary for a healthy diet.
yea, that poster clearly said if they were not getting their nutrients there would be adverse health affects. He never made reference to alternate sources...so not really sure where you are going with this.
The people being accused of low carb/keto dogma have very clearly stated in this thread that veggies are not necessary and the nutrients can be obtained from other sources, so I'm left wondering where others who are stating people will be nutrient deficient without veggies are going with their statements. It's right here:lemurcat12 wrote: »
Maybe it makes them feel bad? Maybe they like to experiment? Sugar is fun to eat, but no one will suffer ill health without it.
Eating no veggies isn't good for you. Yeah, there are ways to make up the micronutrients (although I suspect they aren't as good), but the vast majority of people who mostly cut out veggies don't actually eat lots of organ meats and the like. (And the traditional Inuit diet, while not keto, doesn't compete with the blue zone diets anyway.)
So claiming eating no veggies is perfectly healthy seems inaccurate.
EVERY nutrient in vegetables is available elsewhere, vegetables are not the only easy source of life sustaining nutrients. Eating no veggies is not bad for you, you just need to increase familiarity of nutrient content of other food sources to make it easy and healthy.
It seems like the veggie argument goalpost is being moved all over the place in this discussion. The low carb people are saying that sugar, including the sugar in fruit or veggies, is not necessary for good health because the body can produce its own. No one is saying the nutrients are unnecessary, they are just stating that they can be obtained from other sources.
Unless someone has a study that can prove that fruits and veggies are absolutely necessary to a healthy diet and that people who do not eat fruits and veggies, even if obtaining nutrients from alternative sources, will suffer adverse health effects, then it seems this discussion is more about people's personal food preferences than the necessity of certain foods being included in a diet based on science.
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WinoGelato wrote: »Seriously, are we really advocating that fruits and veggies are not necessary for a healthy diet? And we are leaving that out there for the random lurkers on MFP to see, the ones who aren't doing a ketogenic diet with strict controls on what they are choosing to eat, people who aren't supplementing their micronutrients with other sources, as well as the people eating a SAD who are now going to interpret that that "no, you don't need to eat fruits and vegetables, lots of people on MFP said they aren't necessary for a healthy diet.".
Every time the moderation vs elimination debate comes up people get bashed if they don't qualify a statement of "eat whatever you like in moderation" with "focusing primarily on nutrient dense foods". So I find leaving the statement of "fruits and vegetables aren't necessary for a healthy diet" to be extremely unhelpful and potentially dangerous without providing all of the various caveats that one would need to follow in order to take that zero fruit and vegetable diet to the healthy level again...
So much this.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »<snip>there wouldn't be much quality potty time going on without them! Tons of meat and cheese! Just thinking about the constipation makes me cringe.
One of the advantages of low carb is fewer BMs. They still happen and with no problem, they just don't happen as often. Constipation usually means dehydration, which applies to regular diets too.
By the by, most low carb people do eat veggies. It's the higher carb ones that are avoided or at least rationed. Low carb doesn't always mean zero veggies. It can, but it doesn't have to. Hubby is in keto. For lunch, he's eating 350g of chicken meat, 125g of mushrooms, and 320g of veggies. He ate veggies for breakfast and he'll have them for dinner too.
there have already been comments here about how they are really not necessary nor have they proven to have any health benefits, etc...this kind of dogma goes on a lot around here it seems...
Those comments were made in response to someone else saying that eating no veggies wouldn't be good for you, which was made in response to someone else stating that no one will suffer ill health without sugar (not veggies). Does anyone know of a study showing that people who do not consume fruits and/or veggies experience adverse health effects, even in cases where the person is able to get the nutrients from an alternative source?
really? i'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most people who aren't eating their veg and fruit are pretty deficient nutrient wise and would thus suffer adverse consequences. the vast majority of the population doesn't know jack about actual nutrition nor do most new users to MFP...so i think suggesting that vegetables and whatnot aren't necessary to a healthy diet is somewhat disturbing....but hey...that's just me...carry on.
If you're claiming that what someone said is wrong and that people are going to suffer adverse consequences even in cases where they are getting those same nutrients from other sources, I'd like to see a study backing up that claim. Anecdotally, I know several people who do not include fruits and veggies as a staple in their diets and who have no adverse health issues or are nutrient-deficient, so I'm interested to see the research supporting your claim that these are necessary for a healthy diet.
yea, that poster clearly said if they were not getting their nutrients there would be adverse health affects. He never made reference to alternate sources...so not really sure where you are going with this.
The people being accused of low carb/keto dogma have very clearly stated in this thread that veggies are not necessary and the nutrients can be obtained from other sources, so I'm left wondering where others who are stating people will be nutrient deficient without veggies are going with their statements. It's right here:lemurcat12 wrote: »
Maybe it makes them feel bad? Maybe they like to experiment? Sugar is fun to eat, but no one will suffer ill health without it.
Eating no veggies isn't good for you. Yeah, there are ways to make up the micronutrients (although I suspect they aren't as good), but the vast majority of people who mostly cut out veggies don't actually eat lots of organ meats and the like. (And the traditional Inuit diet, while not keto, doesn't compete with the blue zone diets anyway.)
So claiming eating no veggies is perfectly healthy seems inaccurate.
EVERY nutrient in vegetables is available elsewhere, vegetables are not the only easy source of life sustaining nutrients. Eating no veggies is not bad for you, you just need to increase familiarity of nutrient content of other food sources to make it easy and healthy.
It seems like the veggie argument goalpost is being moved all over the place in this discussion. The low carb people are saying that sugar, including the sugar in fruit or veggies, is not necessary for good health because the body can produce its own. No one is saying the nutrients are unnecessary, they are just stating that they can be obtained from other sources.
Unless someone has a study that can prove that fruits and veggies are absolutely necessary to a healthy diet and that people who do not eat fruits and veggies, even if obtaining nutrients from alternative sources, will suffer adverse health effects, then it seems this discussion is more about people's personal food preferences than the necessity of certain foods being included in a diet based on science.
Well given this:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01635589209514201
Says fruits and vegetable consumption, particularly fruit, reduces cancer risk, and other studies have shown no reduction in cancer from supplements (study I heard mentioned by Harvard nutrition, so I don't have it handy), I'd say there is something in fruit but not in supplements that has cancer preventative properties. Does increased risk of cancer qualify as adverse health effects?0 -
Here is a article about the importance of dietary fiber what is even better 147 reference articles that support the claims of the health benefits of fiber.
http://www.nationalfibercouncil.org/pdfs/Fiber_Review_Paper.pdf0
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