There are 'BAD' foods
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Also the two second rule is bunk. Your food hits the floor, it's contaminated. (I worked in a microbiology lab testing food for e. coli, listeria, salmonella, etc.)0
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Carlos_421 wrote: »This is worth repeating:
Cassano's has the very best pizza.
yea, but is it reinforced with micros? If not, bad...0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »This is worth repeating:
Cassano's has the very best pizza.
yea, but is it reinforced with micros? If not, bad...
It's reinforced with with magic deliciousness.0 -
(additional sensible thinking snipped)Carlos_421 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
This 100%. I too don't think I know anyone IRL who would argue against the idea that bad foods exist.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
But as I also previously stated, I've never had anyone IRL argue with it or even question what it meant. Never.stevencloser wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »TheBeachgod wrote: »I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are bad foods.
LOL And I feel the exact opposite.
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could be so naive as to say there are not bad foods.
So which foods are bad? Name them and there's a thousand people who don't feel that way and another thousand who will tell you some of the foods you think are "good" are bad.
The fact we can argue about this for so many pages, with a good dose of woo in here too to argue for "bad" foods, shows there is no such thing. It's just as arbitrary as clean and all that other stuff where ten people will have ten different ideas of what it means.
Did you see my post about people using two different meanings of "bad" and talking past each other.
I'm curious if you think everyone would agree that foods fall in the second meaning, which is what is being rejected. (I'd personally give you transfats, which I avoid.)
Obviously everyone agrees that some foods aren't that nutritious. To me, that doesn't make them bad. They might be very good in the right circumstances, in fact (if they are tasty).
Or my argument that most people just don't care enough to start an argument on the street about this kind of stuff.
This is me. When I hear people say things like"this is so good but it's probably not healthy at all" I cringe on the inside but I don't say anything.
IRL, I often do respond: "Meh; everything in moderation." or "Yeahbut you already ate that nice salad." or "One donut won't kill you, it's a daily diet of them . . . ." or (to certain people as appropriate) "it's an exception, given how you eat" or "you look healthy enough to handle it". There are lots of one-liner options.
But heck, I'm a li'l ol' lady, and we're allowed to be all crotchety and moralistic, eh?
I always laugh when I hear someone say "you look healthy".0 -
There is bad food for sure. Food is a kind of media that gives our bodies macros and micros (nutrients). Bad food consist of strange chemical addons that our bodies don't need or even worse make damage to them.0
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Also the two second rule is bunk. Your food hits the floor, it's contaminated. (I worked in a microbiology lab testing food for e. coli, listeria, salmonella, etc.)
Oooh I'm emetophobic and paranoid, I do love a microbiologist.
Deeply fascinated by all things bacteria/virus related, I live in horror at the longevity and stamina of norovirus.
On the bad food issue - I've read the first 9 pages and had to go and buy a takeaway chicken, bacon and avocado salad. It was ice cold, full of pine nuts and absolutely delicious. Plenty of calories left for a light dinner later.
Personally, I don't have the will, patience or capacity to micro-analyse, erm, macros. Kudos to all who do, I admire you. I just need to lose some weight, and will do so by eating at a deficit. Chemicals in food, carcinogens? Something is going to kill me. I might get bowel cancer, I might have a heart attack or a stroke, or I might get run over by a London bus tomorrow. I think it's all relative, but that's just my opinion.
Love the discussion though.
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It's worth noting that food preservatives have made it possible for more people to be fed, for less food to spoil, and for far fewer illnesses and deaths from foodborne illnesses. Preservatives are not "bad" per se either. And humans have been preserving food for millennia ; through dehydration, salt (pickling), sugar (honey even) and other means.
Oh, stop being so sensible!0 -
Also the two second rule is bunk. Your food hits the floor, it's contaminated. (I worked in a microbiology lab testing food for e. coli, listeria, salmonella, etc.)
Oooh I'm emetophobic and paranoid, I do love a microbiologist. Deeply fascinated by all things bacteria/virus related, I live in horror at the longevity and stamina of norovirus.
On the bad food issue - I've read the first 9 pages and had to go and buy a takeaway chicken, bacon and avocado salad. It was ice cold, full of pine nuts and absolutely delicious. Plenty of calories left for a light dinner later.
Personally, I don't have the will, patience or capacity to micro-analyse, erm, macros. Kudos to all who do, I admire you. I just need to lose some weight, and will do so by eating at a deficit. Chemicals in food, carcinogens? Something is going to kill me. I might get bowel cancer, I might have a heart attack or a stroke, or I might get run over by a London bus tomorrow. I think it's all relative, but that's just my opinion.
Love the discussion though.
I probably won't get run over by a London bus tomorrow.0 -
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
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Oh yeah I forgot olestra. Leaky *kitten* should be on everyone's 'no fly' food list! LOL0
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Mister_Ladyfingers wrote: »
Olestra. Thats all I've got. (I mean....if it causes anal leakage then it's bad food by anyone's standards. *nods*)
You mean sharting? bad0 -
There is bad food for sure. Food is a kind of media that gives our bodies macros and micros (nutrients). Bad food consist of strange chemical addons that our bodies don't need or even worse make damage to them.
One example of a "strange chemical" added to food that does damage to the body?0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »There is bad food for sure. Food is a kind of media that gives our bodies macros and micros (nutrients). Bad food consist of strange chemical addons that our bodies don't need or even worse make damage to them.
One example of a "strange chemical" added to food that does damage to the body?
dihydrogen monoxide0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »There is bad food for sure. Food is a kind of media that gives our bodies macros and micros (nutrients). Bad food consist of strange chemical addons that our bodies don't need or even worse make damage to them.
One example of a "strange chemical" added to food that does damage to the body?
dihydrogen monoxide
Breath it and it can kill you!!!0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »There is bad food for sure. Food is a kind of media that gives our bodies macros and micros (nutrients). Bad food consist of strange chemical addons that our bodies don't need or even worse make damage to them.
One example of a "strange chemical" added to food that does damage to the body?
dihydrogen monoxide
Breath it and it can kill you!!!
I imagine that is true of many foods.0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »There is bad food for sure. Food is a kind of media that gives our bodies macros and micros (nutrients). Bad food consist of strange chemical addons that our bodies don't need or even worse make damage to them.
One example of a "strange chemical" added to food that does damage to the body?
dihydrogen monoxide
Yup the deadly dihydrogen monoxide
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