There are 'BAD' foods
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I had mentioned earlier in this thread that most people in general don't eat enough nutrient dense food (fruits and vegetables in particular) to truly meet 100% of all RDAs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
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singingflutelady wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »There is bad food for sure. Food is a kind of media that gives our bodies macros and micros (nutrients). Bad food consist of strange chemical addons that our bodies don't need or even worse make damage to them.
One example of a "strange chemical" added to food that does damage to the body?
dihydrogen monoxide
Yup the deadly dihydrogen monoxide
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
I had mentioned earlier in this thread that most people in general don't eat enough nutrient dense food (fruits and vegetables in particular) to truly meet 100% of all RDAs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
Way to move the goalposts..
I asked you a simple question. If you get your micros and eat domino's to fill in your last 500 calories is that good or bad?0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I had mentioned earlier in this thread that most people in general don't eat enough nutrient dense food (fruits and vegetables in particular) to truly meet 100% of all RDAs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
Way to move the goalposts..
I asked you a simple question. If you get your micros and eat domino's to fill in your last 500 calories is that good or bad?
Bad because it's not Cassano's.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I had mentioned earlier in this thread that most people in general don't eat enough nutrient dense food (fruits and vegetables in particular) to truly meet 100% of all RDAs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
Way to move the goalposts..
I asked you a simple question. If you get your micros and eat domino's to fill in your last 500 calories is that good or bad?
What do you mean by "eat domino's". Like eat the store? Or those little tiles?0 -
I would not say that's bad.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I had mentioned earlier in this thread that most people in general don't eat enough nutrient dense food (fruits and vegetables in particular) to truly meet 100% of all RDAs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
Way to move the goalposts..
I asked you a simple question. If you get your micros and eat domino's to fill in your last 500 calories is that good or bad?
0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
Guys, I'm fairly certain I read this same conversation like a year ago.
Right down to the talk about micronutrients in the homemade pizza and the preservatives and white flour in the pizza from the pizza joint.
Same. Possibly even the same person.
And forecaster, how are you so sure the dominoes (or any other pizza joint for that matter) pizza is devoid of micronutrients? Especially when directly comparing the cheeses and pepperoni etc. with each other.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »
Cassano's Pizza King.
Best pizza in the world.
@Carlos_421 Are you from Ohio? I thought Cassano's was relative to Dayton, Ohio!0 -
stevencloser wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
Guys, I'm fairly certain I read this same conversation like a year ago.
Right down to the talk about micronutrients in the homemade pizza and the preservatives and white flour in the pizza from the pizza joint.
Same. Possibly even the same person.
And forecaster, how are you so sure the dominoes (or any other pizza joint for that matter) pizza is devoid of micronutrients? Especially when directly comparing the cheeses and pepperoni etc. with each other.
what if you get a vegetarian pizza??????0 -
I've seen it said a few times in here that trans fats are bad.
I'd disagree. Like anything else, excess of it is bad. Trans fats occur in several foods, even naturally, including in what was once believed would be the miracle fat for people: conjugated linoleic acid (CLA). To truly eliminate trans fat would require eating no dairy, nor fat from ruminants.
Trans fat is noted for having an even greater negative effect on cholesterol than saturated fats.
The problem is the amount of trans fats. The amount occurring naturally in dairy or ruminants is probably fine. Eating fried foods that have been made with partially hydrogenated oil would probably even be fine for most people in decent physical condition maintaining their weight to have with some regularity (once a month, maybe even once a week).
They're a bad idea to allow in frying foods at the rates that modern developed countries are having fried foods, with the physical condition that many of the people consuming them are in.0 -
This conversation does seem like a repeat to me as well.stevencloser wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
Guys, I'm fairly certain I read this same conversation like a year ago.
Right down to the talk about micronutrients in the homemade pizza and the preservatives and white flour in the pizza from the pizza joint.
Same. Possibly even the same person.
And forecaster, how are you so sure the dominoes (or any other pizza joint for that matter) pizza is devoid of micronutrients? Especially when directly comparing the cheeses and pepperoni etc. with each other.
In answer to the question, because of the differences in the flour used. I can't guarantee this for every pizza place, but I know it's true for the bigger chains like dominoes, pizza hut, papa johns. For some micros like magnesium, mine has significantly more because of the flour.
Obviously, it wouldn't be a fair comparison if you get their spinach pizza and ask for extra spinach, and then compare that to my cheese or cheese/pepperoni pizza. But when it comes to comparing the two based on the same toppings, mine will always come out well ahead due to the crust differences.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I would not say that's bad.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I had mentioned earlier in this thread that most people in general don't eat enough nutrient dense food (fruits and vegetables in particular) to truly meet 100% of all RDAs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
Way to move the goalposts..
I asked you a simple question. If you get your micros and eat domino's to fill in your last 500 calories is that good or bad?
good, we agree then that domino's pizza is not bad.
0 -
All pizza is good. Its just a fact. So lets all live with that and eat pizza for the betterment of human society.0
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mattyc772014 wrote: »All pizza is good. Its just a fact. So lets all live with that and eat pizza for the betterment of human society.
Amen, brother!!0 -
So far the only beneficial thing I've taken away from this thread, is that now I want pizza.0
-
suziecue20 wrote: »I see lots of posts stating that there are no 'bad' foods but if this is the case why do we have expressions like 'naughty but nice' when we have eaten something scrumptious we know we shouldn't have?
I know that with CICO I could spend all or most of my daily calories on foods like full fat cheeses, cakes, pastries, biscuits [cookies], ice cream, deep fried chips [fries], sausages, fatty meat and still lose weight but at what cost to my health?
There are lots of foods that are 'bad' but obviously only when they are eaten in high volume and too frequently.
I eat 'bad' foods occasionally under the premise that 'a little bit of what you fancy does you good' and the fact that they stop me feeling deprived and becoming a self-righteous martyr.
So come on, admit it folks, there are 'bad' foods.
I don't think there are 'bad' foods in the way you mean. There are some foods I wouldn't eat, like fugu sashimi, but that is just a personal risk preference.
0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
I had mentioned earlier in this thread that most people in general don't eat enough nutrient dense food (fruits and vegetables in particular) to truly meet 100% of all RDAs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
The answer to this issue is to eat more nutrient dense foods.
I don't find it difficult to eat lots of nutrient dense foods (many of which happen to be low cal) and also to eat some lower nutrient foods that I especially like (like cheese).0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I had mentioned earlier in this thread that most people in general don't eat enough nutrient dense food (fruits and vegetables in particular) to truly meet 100% of all RDAs.ForecasterJason wrote: »
It goes back to the nutrient dense vs less nutrient dense idea. Like I said before, while it doesn't me I should eat excessive amounts of it, because my pizza is not made from white flour it's not something that I need to put in the small amount of calories to eat in moderation. Basically, I'd say if you're going to eat dominoes, that's a low nutrient calorie dense food to be eaten in moderation. Not so the case with mine, so that's what I'd say is wrong with their pizza made from white flour.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
so it boils down to the fact that your processing is good, hence your pizza is good; while Dominos processing is bad, hence their pizza is bad…
and what is wrong with white flour?
Just because something is not nutritionally dense, does not make it bad. Unless you know of a person you gets ALL their food, micros, and macros from one source? Or are you saying that you could only eat your pizza and get all your micros, macros, and hit your calorie target for the day?
Again, who gets ALL their micros from one source? If you eat fruits and vegetables to get your micros and have 500 calories left over and eat dominos, is that good or bad?
Way to move the goalposts..
I asked you a simple question. If you get your micros and eat domino's to fill in your last 500 calories is that good or bad?
Bad because it's not Cassano's.
Fair point.ForecasterJason wrote: »
This conversation does seem like a repeat to me as well.stevencloser wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
I actually never said that my pizza contains an excess of micros (with the exception of manganese, I'm not sure that there are any micro amounts more than the RDA). Rather, dominoes and other pizza made from white flour is severely lacking (compared to mine) of several micros. Magnesium is one micro that stands out. 4 slices of my pizza has around 35% of the RDA just from the dough. Calorie for calorie, you'd have to eat a massive amount more of dominoes to come anywhere close when comparing cheese vs cheese, pepperoni vs pepperoni, etc.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Others may disagree, but I would consider foods that contain several preservatives and extra "stuff" that I wouldn't consider food ingredients to be more unhealthy than a food product not made with the extra ingredients.ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I wouldn't put it in the worst category, I'd consider dominoes to be more bad than good from an overall nutritional standpoint. The dough has several ingredients added as either preservatives or conditioners that would not be found even in certain authentic pizza places. If you're getting, say, a plain cheese pizza or pepperoni, the pizza is essentially fairly low in micros. So, I'd say the combination of being a low nutrient dense food coupled with extra "stuff" added to it that don't belong in authentic pizza would make it more of a bad food than good.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I personally don't think pizza (made from an authentic place that uses minimal ingredients or homemade) is a bad food. That being said, and I guess this is where the whole 'moderation' thing comes in, generally speaking more bread is consumed when people eat pizza than when eating the components individually. In other words, a normal sized homemade pizza I make contains close to 2 cups of flour. This means that 4 slices has nearly 1 cup of flour, which would be equivalent to 4-5 slices of bread. Based on carb counts and the thickness of the crust, I think it's fair to say that in general, a large and certainly an XL commercial pizza would contain at least as much flour.Alatariel75 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »suziecue20 wrote: »Weightloss businesses such as Weightwatchers and Slimming World have no problem defining some foods as 'bad' - Slimming World by categorising some calorie dense foods as 'syns' [sin = bad]. The new Weightwatchers plan by penalising the dieter by upping the points on foods they deem undesirable [bad]. I am sure both these organisations employ qualified nutritionists.
And want you to purchase their products.
Totally missed the point!
No I didn't. They label things as "bad" so you feel guilty for eating it, and instead buy their product. You only feel bad because you're told to. I eat pizza and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat a candybar and I love it, I don't feel bad about it. I eat fried chicken and I love it, I don't feel bad about it.
I felt bad when I OVERINDULGED on those (and any other) things. Not the food, the act.
Well for me its the other way around. I eat pizza and chocolate - they are bad foods to me but I don't feel bad about eating them - my choice.
what is bad about pizza? It has protein, fat, and carbs….three essential macronutrients...
I never get the 'pizza is bad' thing. If you take the ingredients individually, it's a balanced, rounded meal. Bread, meat, veg, some cheese...
But make the bread round and the rest of the food on top of it and all of a sudden it's satan. I don't get it.
what makes a pizza from say, dominos, bad?
why is homemade good and not homemade bad?
By contrast, my homemade pizza is made from freshly ground whole grain flour. Additionally, much of the flour sits in a sourdough starter, which makes the micronutrients more absorbable. This means my pizza dough is dramatically higher inn micros than dominoes, and it is essentially a good source of numerous minerals and a few vitamins. Also, there are aren't any dough conditioners and preservatives added to my pizza. All of that put together makes my pizza a good food, IMO.
What if you get all your micros from a different source?
Also, lack of micros does not make something bad, it just makes it less nutritionally dense.
So basically your processing is better than dominos, which makes dominos bad? At the end of the day they are both processed pizza and I fail to see how one is bad and one is good; they are both just pizza.
Since my pizza has a much higher micro content, I consider it something that I can better use to meet my nutrient needs. Whereas, dominoes is something that you wouldn't typically look for to fulfil any micros (though I realize there are small amounts of a couple), so it's something that becomes part of the small calorie allotment for less nutrient dense foods. I know some here try to follow the 80/20 guide for nutrient dense vs low nutrient dense foods. Instead of making pizza part of the 20, I would put mine in the 80 category (though of course that doesn't mean I should gorge myself on it).
You fail to understand that just because your pizza contains 1000% over the rda of micros it does not make it good or bad, it just makes it pizza. Also, your body can't process additional micros so you get zero benefit from going over in them.
Just because food has preservatives does not make it bad.
Guys, I'm fairly certain I read this same conversation like a year ago.
Right down to the talk about micronutrients in the homemade pizza and the preservatives and white flour in the pizza from the pizza joint.
Same. Possibly even the same person.
And forecaster, how are you so sure the dominoes (or any other pizza joint for that matter) pizza is devoid of micronutrients? Especially when directly comparing the cheeses and pepperoni etc. with each other.
In answer to the question, because of the differences in the flour used. I can't guarantee this for every pizza place, but I know it's true for the bigger chains like dominoes, pizza hut, papa johns. For some micros like magnesium, mine has significantly more because of the flour.
Obviously, it wouldn't be a fair comparison if you get their spinach pizza and ask for extra spinach, and then compare that to my cheese or cheese/pepperoni pizza. But when it comes to comparing the two based on the same toppings, mine will always come out well ahead due to the crust differences.
If someone relies on flour for a significant source of their micros, they probably should be eating more vegetables.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »
Cassano's Pizza King.
Best pizza in the world.
@Carlos_421 Are you from Ohio? I thought Cassano's was relative to Dayton, Ohio!
I am and it is!!
I'm actually slightly south of Dayton but we have one in Fairfield and my buddy lives by the one in Middletown.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »
Cassano's Pizza King.
Best pizza in the world.
@Carlos_421 Are you from Ohio? I thought Cassano's was relative to Dayton, Ohio!
I am and it is!!
I'm actually slightly south of Dayton but we have one in Fairfield and my buddy lives by the one in Middletown.
Aye yay! I'm from Dayton, currently in Cbus getting ready for a move to Cincy!!
Sorry to interupt/derail the thread- continue!0
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