If calories in-calories out is immutable...

ahoy_m8

I can identify. Maybe this is a useful antidote. I'm a long time maintainer, and when I get to the top of my maintenance range, I track carefully for a small deficit to lose 5 lbs. I aim for .5lb/wk. I also weigh every day to track fluctuations & loss. Last time I went into a deficit to lose 5 lb, I was still sporadically seeing high weights (like my starting weight) on the scale as long as 5 weeks into deficit eating. It was really demoralizing and each time made me wonder why it wasn't working--has something changed, was I counting wrong, etc. But then when I looked at my weight trend (I plot a 7-day rolling average), it was really clear that the deficit WAS working just like the math predicted. Those high weights were just outlier data points that, even as a seasoned tracker, momentarily threw me off.

The point is looking at a single weight in isolation is misleading. You need several weeks of data to get an accurate picture. Also, take a look at this. A lot of folks, me included, hover at the same weight around 3 weeks then --whoosh--3 weeks worth of weight loss gone in 1-2 days. Stay the course and give it time. Best to you!

starwhisperer6

It is the rule always, here is what just saying it doesn't take into account and I think gets often lost in translation. Just because a website tells you how many calories you need for your height and weight doesn't mean that it is spot on, it is an estimate of thousands of people. I have a scion XB, my Dad has a Honda sedan, they look the same size, but man my XB uses a lot less gas to do the exact same job. CICO will absolutely work, but there are reasons that you CI might be less than you think or have been told. Or that your CO is more efficient than the person next to you. Play with it, log accurately (yeah the whole scale thing is probably a good idea if you are not losing) and see if the estimates are right for you.

rankinsect

GaleHawkins wrote: »

mandy318 wrote: »

...why such variation in resulting weight loss?

I am a very routine person and a logical thinker. I have needed to lose about 50lbs for about 4 years. I'm 37 & female, btw.

When I choose a diet plan, I seem to be able to shed 6-8 lbs...then nothing. I understand the things I may do to sabotage my diet...like not tracking accurately or "cheating". But what about when I do the same things, week after week, and one week I lose 2 lbs, then the next none.

It's so disheartening and it's usually the reason I fall off most diets after about 3 months.

I find it so hard to lose over 6-8 lbs, that I wonder if maybe something else is going on--insulin resistance or pcos?

I'd love some input and advice.

About three weeks ago I started alternate day fasting. I lost 6lbs in two weeks....now nothing. But this has happened with every diet I've tried.

@mandy318 CICO is only valid in a lab setting technically speaking.

Humans for example have about 50 hormones being produced and circulated at any given time. The levels of some of these will be a factor in weight gain/loss. What we eat and how much we eat often does have an emotional component.

Two people who weigh 200 pounds each could each eat 2000 calories daily yet still have a different weight gain/loss.

Because there are a ton of factors that determine our weight dieting can be hard to figure out. We are all different but in time we can learn what works for us.

Yes insulin resistance or pcos are two REAL factors that can impact weight loss.

It was only when I stopped dieting at the age of 63 (2014) and started to eat for better health did my fat start melting and my health markers start to moving in a positive direction.

CICO is a factor without question but it is one of many factors.

Just like all cars do not get the same miles per gallon when using the same fuel neither do we humans.

CICO is true. Yes, people can have different results, but that is because CI, CO, and fat mass are imprecisely measured or estimated. Two people of the same weight do not have the same CO, so obviously they get different results even with the same CI.

To the OP - fat loss at a constant deficit is fairly linear, but weight loss is not, because weight includes many things besides fat.

leodora1

I know what you mean - it can be frustrating. In my personal experience, I found that over-thinking everything is a killer. Also, fasting was terrible and MY body did not adapt well. Outside of assuming everything else that has been mentioned here, I eat six times a day. It works for me. Consistency worked and a bit of good old fashioned detachment. It all works out in the end if consistency is the trademark of your program. I have tried WW, JC, SL, intermittent fasting, South Beach, and so on... the only lifestyle that consistently works for me is exercise and a protein/carb six times a day sticking with 1200 - 1500 calories.

One more note... in 2014, I was working out, eating right, and gained 30 lbs in out two months. I found out I had hypothyroidism. It took about 18 months to get my meds in check and now back to good old consistency and six meals a day.

SW: 196
Age: 41
H: 62"
CW: 166
GW: 150
Started getting serious about this: 10/10/2015. I have lost 30 lbs in 13 weeks.

daniwilford

I was consistently following a lower carb and sodium, higher protein and fiber diet last April to July. As a post menopausal obese woman, I consistently lost 2 pounds every 7 days. When I began strength training and was lower on the obesity scale that consistency changed. I began to lose in a more erratic fashion, but I lost weight equal to my deficit over time. The portion of my diet that is composed of carbs, my sodium intake and increases in the intensity of my work outs cause daily variations in pounds. But over the coarse of 9 months my expected weight loss as predicted by CICO is over 95% accurate or off by less than one pound.

MondayJune22nd2015

1st the less you weigh, the less calories you need; I readjust my calories monthly & 2nd are you factoring water weight gain, from menstruating? I gain 5 pounds. Focus on monthly progress, not weekly. If you aren't seeing a difference after a month, then readjust; until you do. I had also gained an additional 4 pounds of water weight in 2 days, from taking an antibiotic. So I couldn't even entirely rely, on my monthly results.

ElizabethOakes2

The scale will really mess with you. Try taking your measurements on your weigh-in day.
Keep in mind that diets that include fasting, or days under 1000 calories can set off your body's insulin/sugar balance. It's better to keep consistent nutrition instead of seesawing.

mandy318

Thanks so much for all the info. Lots of people here think like I do!

My current weight is 192. Goal: 172 (to begin with, I'd love to lose this by March, for a trip I'm going on)

I'm eating 500 cal on "fast" days and freely on off days. So far, fasting is working well for me. I recently started a new job and found myself eating alot less by default due to a change in my daily schedule. It has actually been easy to incorporate the fasting. I feel like fasting functions as a behavior modification for me...just in 3 weeks I've noticed that I'm not as reactive to the feeling of hunger--which enables me to make a dispassionate food choice.

For me, eating 6x a day means 6x I have to make the right decision about what to eat. Meal planning is not my strong point. If I can not have to rely on it, I'm better off.

I'll stick with this for 3 more weeks and if I don't see a change over time, I'll make a drs appt and push to see if there is some other challenge.

Thank you all!!

neohdiver

mandy318 wrote: »

...why such variation in resulting weight loss?

When I choose a diet plan, I seem to be able to shed 6-8 lbs...then nothing. I understand the things I may do to sabotage my diet...like not tracking accurately or "cheating". But what about when I do the same things, week after week, and one week I lose 2 lbs, then the next none.

I'd love some input and advice.

Does your car get the same gas mileage every single mile, uphill and downhill, city traffic and highway traffic? Why would you expect your body (a much messier machine) to get the same calorie mileage all the time?

lorrpb

The last month for me:

GaleHawkins

Basically everything has valid be it CICO, hormonal impact, etc, etc.

For my simple mind all of these factors net results get computed when I get on my scales and weigh by body each morning. Daily weight-ins will vary so I just look at my weight as of the 1st of each month as it compares to the same date on prior months and that gives me a heads up of my true real life CICO.

Weight loss/gain is my secondary concern. My #1 concern is to eat in a way that improves my health markers. When I do that my secondary concerned so far has been addressed by default.

For a year now I have hit my max weight of 207 two times and my min weight if 197 three times. As my health markers improve I work to make sure my next Max is more like 202 and Min weight is more like 192. If it takes me to age 70 (5 more years) to get to a 180-170 range that is just find as long as my overall health markers are improving or staying in normal ranges.

For some reason in my case as my health improves over a period of time my weight will drop or some call it ones 'set point' is declining. From age 15 to 25 my set point was about 175 pounds. My max weight over the past 5 years has been 250 but for some reason without watching my CICO I never crossed that weight. Having been just under 200 for a while now I am calling that my new 'set point'.

Now that I stay stuffed feeling eating about every 12 hours managing my CI is much easier. The winter months my CO is harder to manage. During the summer with work around the place my CO will be so that my CI will manage itself for the most part since I no longer have food cravings.

Yes CICO is real but when we regain good physical and mental health (regarding food usage) the brain can take over managing our weight like it has for mankind since recorded history.

rileysowner

CICO is what is comes down to, but there are so many variables that play into this. There is the difficulty of being sure, even with the most careful measuring there are going to be variations in foods, margins of error of the scale, and the like. Then there is calories out, changes in daily activity (NEAT) happen daily and that means different amounts of calories burned. Various hormones can cause changes that in the long run all even out, but in the short run can cause variation in CO. Then there is the difficulty in measuring results. What most people measure is weight, but weight is a measure of progress that is horribly variable for things that have nothing to do with losing fat. Water weight is the most obvious, but then there is food weight is your digestion is running slow, and the rest. If there was an accurate, inexpensive way to measure fat loss, it would be the measure you would want to use, but there isn't. That means the scale, measuring tape, and photographs are what we have to work with. All those variables, and more, mean that while CICO is working, it effects may be masked or skewed. It does not mean CICO isn't working.

Merkavar

Really just sounds like your giving up to quick.

You mentioned losing 6-8lb then nothing and losing 2lb a week.

Does that mean you stick to your plan for 4-8 weeks then quit?

I'm not female so I haven't experienced it first hand but my understanding is that they have monthly water fluctuations.

So could you see big numbers when you lose water weight and get motivated

Then 2-4 weeks later see small or no movement because your gaining water weight and then get demotivated?

All while you were losing fat but not seeing it on the scales because of water weight.

Stick with it longer would be my suggestion.

allyphoe

mandy318 wrote: »

My current weight is 192. Goal: 172 (to begin with, I'd love to lose this by March, for a trip I'm going on)

I'm eating 500 cal on "fast" days and freely on off days.

1) You're not going to lose 20 pounds in 6 weeks. Given your start weight, it's enormously unlikely you'll lose 20 pounds in 10 weeks. Unrealistic expectations can make it harder to stick to your plan, because you perceive failure rather than realistic success.

2) If you aren't logging every day, how will you know whether you have an overall deficit? What's your plan if you don't have an overall deficit? IF isn't a plan that works for me, but I know from hard experience that I have absolutely no problem eating 3,800 calories in a day. Five hundred on fast days + 3,800 on off days = maintenance for me.

strong_curves

mandy318 wrote: »

Thanks so much for all the info. Lots of people here think like I do!

My current weight is 192. Goal: 172 (to begin with, I'd love to lose this by March, for a trip I'm going on)

I'm eating 500 cal on "fast" days and freely on off days.[/b] So far, fasting is working well for me. I recently started a new job and found myself eating alot less by default due to a change in my daily schedule. It has actually been easy to incorporate the fasting. I feel like fasting functions as a behavior modification for me...just in 3 weeks I've noticed that I'm not as reactive to the feeling of hunger--which enables me to make a dispassionate food choice.

For me, eating 6x a day means 6x I have to make the right decision about what to eat. Meal planning is not my strong point. If I can not have to rely on it, I'm better off.

I'll stick with this for 3 more weeks and if I don't see a change over time, I'll make a drs appt and push to see if there is some other challenge.

Thank you all!!

Are you logging at all? Are you counting calories at all?

20 lbs in 2.5 months is really aggressive.

veganbaum

mandy318 wrote: »

Thanks so much for all the info. Lots of people here think like I do!

My current weight is 192. Goal: 172 (to begin with, I'd love to lose this by March, for a trip I'm going on)

I'm eating 500 cal on "fast" days and freely on off days. So far, fasting is working well for me. I recently started a new job and found myself eating alot less by default due to a change in my daily schedule. It has actually been easy to incorporate the fasting. I feel like fasting functions as a behavior modification for me...just in 3 weeks I've noticed that I'm not as reactive to the feeling of hunger--which enables me to make a dispassionate food choice.

For me, eating 6x a day means 6x I have to make the right decision about what to eat. Meal planning is not my strong point. If I can not have to rely on it, I'm better off.

I'll stick with this for 3 more weeks and if I don't see a change over time, I'll make a drs appt and push to see if there is some other challenge.

Thank you all!!

Everyone's addressed the weight loss isn't linear issue. But does eating "freely" on your "off" days mean you're not logging? If you've had issues with losing in the past, you're not one of the (what I'd consider) lucky ones who can lose weight without logging. You need to log.

Also, 20 pounds in two months is not only unlikely to happen, but also not really a good idea. Since you have given up several times, it's probably time you try to find a way that works and is sustainable.

blankiefinder

mandy318 wrote: »

Thanks so much for all the info. Lots of people here think like I do!

My current weight is 192. Goal: 172 (to begin with, I'd love to lose this by March, for a trip I'm going on)

I'm eating 500 cal on "fast" days and freely on off days. So far, fasting is working well for me. I recently started a new job and found myself eating alot less by default due to a change in my daily schedule. It has actually been easy to incorporate the fasting. I feel like fasting functions as a behavior modification for me...just in 3 weeks I've noticed that I'm not as reactive to the feeling of hunger--which enables me to make a dispassionate food choice.

For me, eating 6x a day means 6x I have to make the right decision about what to eat. Meal planning is not my strong point. If I can not have to rely on it, I'm better off.

I'll stick with this for 3 more weeks and if I don't see a change over time, I'll make a drs appt and push to see if there is some other challenge.

Thank you all!!

You're 'eating freely' on your non-fast days? This could completely eliminate your weekly deficit. Also, is this really how you want to continue eating for the rest of your life? Learn to eat in a way that you will be able to maintain at your goal weight.

And use a food scale! and log everything, fast days or not. If you're not doing this, then really, what's the point?

scolaris

What helped for me was to once and for all very clearly, very cleanly, very dispassionately partition PROCESS (my work) from PRODUCT (my body's work). If my program is based on sound principles & I am consistently doing my work, I have to accept that my body will do its work on its own arcane terms. So far this has carried me through several bumps & skids.

Sued0nim

You should be eating to maintenance on your off days, not freely ...so as they say you still have to weigh your food and log