Low carb... Is it a diet fad?
Replies
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LOL.
What do I think? Everyone should give Ketogenics at least a legitimate 3 month shot. No carbs for 3 months. It's a challenge a lot of people can't accomplish. Why? It separates those who are dedicated to changing their body, and those who buy Fitbits then eat pancakes, burgers, and drink beer all weekend long.
Because people who buy Fitbits then eat pancakes, burgers, and drink beer all weekend are not dedicated. Seems legit. Your flamebait is showing.0 -
But eating the same for 20 years IS doable.Actually I was talking about manicures and pedicures and paying market rent in a conveniently located urban apartment. 20 years from now, I don't know.
Point was that eating habits of people don't change much unless intentionally changed. If one eats within their calorie range with the variety of food they like and continue it for life, chances are their weight won't fluctuate as much either.Foodwise, I eat moderate carb paleo/primal. 20 years from now, I might be in a nursing home which might make that not possible anymore. Until then, why not? For me, it's a lot less difficult than trying to eat "moderate" amounts of jelly donuts, caramel popcorn and fried chicken sandwiches with a side of fries.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »I can, but I am querying your absolute statement.
good you get it, then we are done here….
unless you want to share some science about the properties of keto/low carb that somehow makes it superior to other ways of eating…?
I don't think any weight loss program/way of eating is superior, I think its a case of do doing what suits the person and what is sustainable for an individual.
Why bother posting anything on either side, its all been posted before (and is getting quite boring) and each side will find something contrary in what the other has posted.
I am contrary to any posting that says their way is the best way for every individual, but nothing wrong in saying this worked for me and may work for you.
Let's face it majority of OP's just want to hear what worked and what didn't work for those who choose to reply. I am done being a participant to derailing the thread, I have to be up for work in less than six hours.
OP do what works for you, you probably know by now what doesn't, give alternatives a try. It may be that over time you alternate between various programs/methods as your circumstances change but do consider the long term and sustainability. Calorie counting is a good first option, after a genuine try if it isn't working see what needs tweaking or see if another program works for you, plenty out there: low carb, meditarrane.an, WW, primal, mindful eating, portion control, etc
not sure why you keep replying to me, as I clearly told OP that Low Carb is not a fad and that she can go ahead and do it; however, the same principles of CICO apply.
My point is that low carb or keto is not some magical elixir that will cure all ills and end all disease in the known world...0 -
Low carb seems to never work for me! I always so much better when my macros are followed.. eating in moderation.. calorie intake vs activity level is key!!! it is so simple and you can eat what you want but within reason..sugar is bad.. complex carbs are awesome! Don't drink your carbs and don't consider sugary foods like candy.. dark chocolate yes. in moderation. with nut butter of choice when you need a sweet.. but I don't think it's a fad.. there will always be those who do it correctly and it does work for them. You just cant go wrong watching your calories, macros and activity level though!!! I think it is the healthiest way. Your body needs fat to deliver the nutrients to your body. Fat is the vehicle ... healthy fat is a must!!! So bottom line here.. when I get rid of carbs I never lose weight.. I have no idea why. I have tried the right way without going to sugary foods.0
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Yeay, someone said complex carbs are awesome.
I could not live without my beans, plain oatmeal, barley, quinoa, avocado, lentils, sweet potatoes, and my apple.
(frustrated that I'm the only one sometimes).0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »toad_allyinlove wrote: »Low carb is it fact or fiction? Fad or good? What do you guys think? Pro's or con's?
What do I think? Everyone should give Ketogenics at least a legitimate 3 month shot. No carbs for 3 months. It's a challenge a lot of people can't accomplish. Why? It separates those who are dedicated to changing their body, and those who buy Fitbits then eat pancakes, burgers, and drink beer all weekend long.
.
Crap. I have a Fitbit, I eat pancakes and burgers and I drink beer. I guess I'm not dedicated to changing my body? Oh wait, I've been here for 3 years, lost 30 lbs, am successfully maintaining, am healthier and more active than I've ever been in my life. Yeah, that's not dedication. Probably just dumb luck.
I knew I liked you. Must be the beer buzz.0 -
Point was that eating habits of people don't change much unless intentionally changed. If one eats within their calorie range with the variety of food they like and continue it for life, chances are their weight won't fluctuate as much either.
Theoretically yes. Put in practice, very often not. Above, I listed the foodz I very much like, and have eaten all my life. I don't moderate those foodz successfully - never have and never will. And I know I'm not alone in this.
Most people don't gain weight eating too many vegetables and fresh fruits. Something like chicken is easily overeaten when breaded and fried or drenched in a corn starchy gravy laden with sugar and soy sauce as in a Chinese restaurant. If that same chicken was not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade, the notion of overeating it would be far less attractive.
But I know you're not in my camp. So we'll agree to disagree.
Well, I agree that if all you allow yourself are foods that don't taste good, the notion of overeating would be far less attractive.
The problem with your argument is that there's plenty of highly palatable ways to eat chicken that are not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade. If it's tasty, some people will overeat it.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »toad_allyinlove wrote: »Low carb is it fact or fiction? Fad or good? What do you guys think? Pro's or con's?
What do I think? Everyone should give Ketogenics at least a legitimate 3 month shot. No carbs for 3 months. It's a challenge a lot of people can't accomplish. Why? It separates those who are dedicated to changing their body, and those who buy Fitbits then eat pancakes, burgers, and drink beer all weekend long.
.
Crap. I have a Fitbit, I eat pancakes and burgers and I drink beer. I guess I'm not dedicated to changing my body? Oh wait, I've been here for 3 years, lost 30 lbs, am successfully maintaining, am healthier and more active than I've ever been in my life. Yeah, that's not dedication. Probably just dumb luck.
Yep. I'm also a Fitbit owner pancake eater who was unable to last on keto but managed to lose large on a carb level considered high by some despite starting pre-diabetic and having PCOS. My dumb luck has also brought my blood sugar levels to normal. It has nothing to do with being dedicated to changing my body. Nothing, I tell you.0 -
An ultra low-carb, low-fat, high protein diet makes it easier for me to lose weight because it's low-calorie, streamlined, and according to some theories causes the body to burn more fat. But upon reaching my goal, I add more carbs because I need the energy.0
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nutmegoreo wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »toad_allyinlove wrote: »Low carb is it fact or fiction? Fad or good? What do you guys think? Pro's or con's?
What do I think? Everyone should give Ketogenics at least a legitimate 3 month shot. No carbs for 3 months. It's a challenge a lot of people can't accomplish. Why? It separates those who are dedicated to changing their body, and those who buy Fitbits then eat pancakes, burgers, and drink beer all weekend long.
.
Crap. I have a Fitbit, I eat pancakes and burgers and I drink beer. I guess I'm not dedicated to changing my body? Oh wait, I've been here for 3 years, lost 30 lbs, am successfully maintaining, am healthier and more active than I've ever been in my life. Yeah, that's not dedication. Probably just dumb luck.
I knew I liked you. Must be the beer buzz.
Likely it is the dementia causing carbohydrates that are drawing you to me....0 -
toad_allyinlove wrote: »Low carb is it fact or fiction? Fad or good? What do you guys think? Pro's or con's?
Like most diet trends, low carb comes and goes...it is currently trendy.
Any and all diet approaches work on the same principle. For many, low carb can help in that it tends to put people into a calorie deficit without them thinking about it...think about it...most people would be cutting out a lot of high calorie, low nutrient foods. That said, when you low carb, you're also excluding a lot of very nutrient dense sources of carbohydrates that are often recommended to consume to avoid and/or reverse or mitigate a myriad of diseases and health issues.
Some people also have certain medical conditions for which the benefit from low carbohydrate diets...one of my aunts suffered from seizures and benefited from doing a keto diet as it resulted in fewer seizures.
Currently, it is a very trendy fad though...and there's nothing "magical" about it...it works on the same principle for weight loss as any other diet plan.
Most people who eat anything resembling the SAD could stand to moderate their carbohydrate intake and make better decisions as to what makes up their carbohydrate intake...but low carbing certainly isn't necessary to lose weight...do it if that's what will make you adhere to your diet, not because of some kind of voodoo magic.0 -
Point was that eating habits of people don't change much unless intentionally changed. If one eats within their calorie range with the variety of food they like and continue it for life, chances are their weight won't fluctuate as much either.
Theoretically yes. Put in practice, very often not. Above, I listed the foodz I very much like, and have eaten all my life. I don't moderate those foodz successfully - never have and never will. And I know I'm not alone in this.
Most people don't gain weight eating too many vegetables and fresh fruits. Something like chicken is easily overeaten when breaded and fried or drenched in a corn starchy gravy laden with sugar and soy sauce as in a Chinese restaurant. If that same chicken was not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade, the notion of overeating it would be far less attractive.
But I know you're not in my camp. So we'll agree to disagree.
Well, I agree that if all you allow yourself are foods that don't taste good, the notion of overeating would be far less attractive.
The problem with your argument is that there's plenty of highly palatable ways to eat chicken that are not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade. If it's tasty, some people will overeat it.
I'm not sure if you thought I was saying eating food that doesn't taste good is what enables one to not overeat food. I wasn't though.
Taking the chicken example. Here's a practically universally tasty way of eating chicken that doesn't involve marinade, breading, frying, gravy or stuffing.
One Kosher whole chicken leg with skin, placed in a small baking dish with a half a cup of water at the bottom. Bake without covering at 400 degrees Fahrenheit until skin is crispy, dark meat inside is tender and moist and the bottom of the baking contains a nice oily juice to pour over the chicken and accompanying vegetables, seasoned perfectly by the Kosher salting process. Compatible with Paleo, low carb and Keto. Delicious, but usually not a stuff-your-face-with-it-food-until-you-need-a-nap-or-an-ambulance, like Popeyes, Kentucky Fried, chicken fingers or Szechuan chicken.
And yes, yes, I know MFP is full of sane and moderated former chubs who luv to science and never did this in the first place. They got fat eating too many mangos, asparagus salad and oat porridge. But for the rest of us...
This is an interesting angle... rarely do we ever see examples of people saying they are addicted to savory foods... in these forums it is always "sugar is as bad as heroin", no matter how many times people talk about the fact that the foods people tend to over eat have high calorie content from fat as much as just the sugar. So are you saying that people tend to over eat on things like chicken tenders, Popeyes, KFC, and Szechuan chicken because it is the breading that causes them to overeat? It's the carbs that are causing people to overeat, is that what you are saying?
You can put me in the camp of - I like fried chicken, roasted chicken, grilled chicken - pretty much anything other than plain boiled chicken. I was overweight because I ate too many of all different kinds of foods - not because I was stuffing my face with a bucket of the Colonel's addictive secret recipe or entire pints of Ben and Jerry's at a time.
But I'm interested in what you are really saying here, because at least it is something different than the usual sugar argument!0 -
I eat low carb. It just seems to be where I naturally fall when I am eating healthily for me. I have not always been this way. My diet used to consist of toast in the mornings, home baked cookies for snacks, and pastas for supper. Until I figured out through years of trial and error that wheat/gluten is what triggers my migraines.
So, editing out the wheat has essentially put me in the low carb camp. I generally average 75-100gm of carbs per day. I find my body is super happy with this way of eating, I have maintained energy throughout losing weight, I am happy, and the food choices I make keep me full. I am usually eating about .8-1gm of protein per lb of lean body mass(estimate), and about 40% fat. So I for sure fall in the low carb high fat eating style. I still eat things like oats, rice, and grains, sweet potato, all veggies, some gluten free baking, some fruits(I really prefer veg over fruit), and dairy. I make bread I can eat and the only one I can stand uses ground flax which just happens to be naturally low carb. When putting together my meals I just pick a serving size that fits my cals and when combined with the fat and protein choices I make, I end up eating less carb.
I have done keto before (20gm total carbs/day) and loved it! Tried to move back into it last week but failed as I have a pretty busy workout schedule ATM, and "keto flu" was killing my energy. Had I pushed a few more days I know I would have felt that energy rush and been all good but I am thinking right now just is not the ideal time to transition. The reason I was doing it was to support a friend.
I think it works for some people. I don't think it is a fad or an unnatural way of eating. If high carb works for you, do it! But for many, lowered carbs help them feel good and aids in lowering their calorie counts.0 -
My understanding is the only reason a Ketogenic diet can work in losing weight is if that diet also puts you in a caloric deficit. Which is exactly what CICO is all about. Eat less than you burn. So, really, in order to work, Keto has to *also* be CICO. You cannot exclude it.Can you lose weight and become healthier with CICO?
Yes
Can you lose weight and become healthier with Ketogenics?
Yes
CICO, in and of itself, is not a diet. It's a proven scientific principle that has to form the basic premise of every single dietary weight loss vehicle in existence.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »
My understanding is the only reason a Ketogenic diet can work in losing weight is if that diet also puts you in a caloric deficit. Which is exactly what CICO is all about. Eat less than you burn. So, really, in order to work, Keto has to *also* be CICO. You cannot exclude it.Can you lose weight and become healthier with CICO?
Yes
Can you lose weight and become healthier with Ketogenics?
Yes
CICO, in and of itself, is not a diet. It's a proven scientific principle that has to form the basic premise of every single dietary weight loss vehicle in existence.
I never understand why people separate keto from CICO ....they are the same thing and operate on the same principle, with respect to weight loss.0 -
Point was that eating habits of people don't change much unless intentionally changed. If one eats within their calorie range with the variety of food they like and continue it for life, chances are their weight won't fluctuate as much either.
Theoretically yes. Put in practice, very often not. Above, I listed the foodz I very much like, and have eaten all my life. I don't moderate those foodz successfully - never have and never will. And I know I'm not alone in this.
Most people don't gain weight eating too many vegetables and fresh fruits. Something like chicken is easily overeaten when breaded and fried or drenched in a corn starchy gravy laden with sugar and soy sauce as in a Chinese restaurant. If that same chicken was not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade, the notion of overeating it would be far less attractive.
But I know you're not in my camp. So we'll agree to disagree.
Well, I agree that if all you allow yourself are foods that don't taste good, the notion of overeating would be far less attractive.
The problem with your argument is that there's plenty of highly palatable ways to eat chicken that are not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade. If it's tasty, some people will overeat it.
I'm not sure if you thought I was saying eating food that doesn't taste good is what enables one to not overeat food. I wasn't though.
Taking the chicken example. Here's a practically universally tasty way of eating chicken that doesn't involve marinade, breading, frying, gravy or stuffing.
One Kosher whole chicken leg with skin, placed in a small baking dish with a half a cup of water at the bottom. Bake without covering at 400 degrees Fahrenheit until skin is crispy, dark meat inside is tender and moist and the bottom of the baking contains a nice oily juice to pour over the chicken and accompanying vegetables, seasoned perfectly by the Kosher salting process. Compatible with Paleo, low carb and Keto. Delicious, but usually not a stuff-your-face-with-it-food-until-you-need-a-nap-or-an-ambulance, like Popeyes, Kentucky Fried, chicken fingers or Szechuan chicken.
And yes, yes, I know MFP is full of sane and moderated former chubs who luv to science and never did this in the first place. They got fat eating too many mangos, asparagus salad and oat porridge. But for the rest of us...
No, it looked like you were saying that the only way people would overeat chicken is if it had been breaded or fried, dressed with starchy gravy, stuffed with Stouffer's and/or soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade.
I'm saying it's just as easy to overeat roast chicken (for example). Lots of people love roast chicken as much or more than they do fried. People overeat what they find super-tasty. And if it's something they eat often they'll be getting fat on it.
ETA: TBH, all of those things you say are "stuff-your-face-with-it-food-until-you-need-a-nap-or-an-ambulance" - those are things most people I know would rarely overeat or even buy because they just don't taste that great to them.
ETA2: The most people I'm referring to - these are all overweight or obese people.0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »
My understanding is the only reason a Ketogenic diet can work in losing weight is if that diet also puts you in a caloric deficit. Which is exactly what CICO is all about. Eat less than you burn. So, really, in order to work, Keto has to *also* be CICO. You cannot exclude it.Can you lose weight and become healthier with CICO?
Yes
Can you lose weight and become healthier with Ketogenics?
Yes
CICO, in and of itself, is not a diet. It's a proven scientific principle that has to form the basic premise of every single dietary weight loss vehicle in existence.
I never understand why people separate keto from CICO ....they are the same thing and operate on the same principle, with respect to weight loss.
For the same reason you argued for months that a low carb diet couldn't be IIFYM. These terms have a history on these forums and different connotations that people feel doesn't fit what they're trying to convey.0 -
Point was that eating habits of people don't change much unless intentionally changed. If one eats within their calorie range with the variety of food they like and continue it for life, chances are their weight won't fluctuate as much either.
Theoretically yes. Put in practice, very often not. Above, I listed the foodz I very much like, and have eaten all my life. I don't moderate those foodz successfully - never have and never will. And I know I'm not alone in this.
Most people don't gain weight eating too many vegetables and fresh fruits. Something like chicken is easily overeaten when breaded and fried or drenched in a corn starchy gravy laden with sugar and soy sauce as in a Chinese restaurant. If that same chicken was not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade, the notion of overeating it would be far less attractive.
But I know you're not in my camp. So we'll agree to disagree.
Well, I agree that if all you allow yourself are foods that don't taste good, the notion of overeating would be far less attractive.
The problem with your argument is that there's plenty of highly palatable ways to eat chicken that are not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade. If it's tasty, some people will overeat it.
I'm not sure if you thought I was saying eating food that doesn't taste good is what enables one to not overeat food. I wasn't though.
Taking the chicken example. Here's a practically universally tasty way of eating chicken that doesn't involve marinade, breading, frying, gravy or stuffing.
One Kosher whole chicken leg with skin, placed in a small baking dish with a half a cup of water at the bottom. Bake without covering at 400 degrees Fahrenheit until skin is crispy, dark meat inside is tender and moist and the bottom of the baking contains a nice oily juice to pour over the chicken and accompanying vegetables, seasoned perfectly by the Kosher salting process. Compatible with Paleo, low carb and Keto. Delicious, but usually not a stuff-your-face-with-it-food-until-you-need-a-nap-or-an-ambulance, like Popeyes, Kentucky Fried, chicken fingers or Szechuan chicken.
And yes, yes, I know MFP is full of sane and moderated former chubs who luv to science and never did this in the first place. They got fat eating too many mangos, asparagus salad and oat porridge. But for the rest of us...
Seeing how I sometimes eat whole chickens made with my own marinade with 0 sugar or breading, I can tell you no to that.0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »
My understanding is the only reason a Ketogenic diet can work in losing weight is if that diet also puts you in a caloric deficit. Which is exactly what CICO is all about. Eat less than you burn. So, really, in order to work, Keto has to *also* be CICO. You cannot exclude it.Can you lose weight and become healthier with CICO?
Yes
Can you lose weight and become healthier with Ketogenics?
Yes
CICO, in and of itself, is not a diet. It's a proven scientific principle that has to form the basic premise of every single dietary weight loss vehicle in existence.
I never understand why people separate keto from CICO ....they are the same thing and operate on the same principle, with respect to weight loss.
For the same reason you argued for months that a low carb diet couldn't be IIFYM. These terms have a history on these forums and different connotations that people feel doesn't fit what they're trying to convey.
not sure how that is even remotely similar, but thanks for bringing up an old thread...
and for the record, low carb is not IIFYM...0 -
Wetcoaster wrote: »Fact or fiction? It's a real way to eat. I am not sure what you mean with that.
I don't think it is a fad. That would imply it is short lived and it was not an uncommon way to eat up into the 50s. Atkins has been around a few decades.
It can be good for those who need to reduce carbs for health reasons or enjoy eating that way.
Pros and cons are going to vary between people. I eat low carb and have for some months now. For me the pros are:- Improved blood glucose
- Improved autoimmune issues (pain reduction)
- Improved cognitive functions
- Improved energy
- Fewer headaches
- No more reactive hypoglycaemia
- Better skin
- Reduced appetite and cravings
- Easy to eat at a slight deficit and lose weight
- More regular
- Excellent food
- Improved blood lipids
The cons would be:- Inconvenience
- Ummmm......
Cons would be no yummy carbs
No yummy carbs? No no. This thread was about low carb diet and not a carnivorous, almost no carb diet.
I eat a very low carb, ketogenic diet yet last night I had green beans with butter, pork roast with some gravy, and a slice of carrot cake. There's a few things in that meal that qualify as yummy barely any carbs.Fact or fiction? It's a real way to eat. I am not sure what you mean with that.
I don't think it is a fad. That would imply it is short lived and it was not an uncommon way to eat up into the 50s. Atkins has been around a few decades.
It can be good for those who need to reduce carbs for health reasons or enjoy eating that way.
Pros and cons are going to vary between people. I eat low carb and have for some months now. For me the pros are:- Improved blood glucose
- Improved autoimmune issues (pain reduction)
- Improved cognitive functions
- Improved energy
- Fewer headaches
- No more reactive hypoglycaemia
- Better skin
- Reduced appetite and cravings
- Easy to eat at a slight deficit and lose weight
- More regular
- Excellent food
- Improved blood lipids
The cons would be:- Inconvenience
- Ummmm......
OP just putting a disclaimer here that this is great for this poster but does may not apply to you or the rest of the population ...
Fixed.
fixed it for you0 -
I say this as someone currently doing the ketogenic lifestyle - "low carb" diets have such a bad reputation b/c a few idiots like to claim that it gives them magical powers. It's a great way to lose weight FOR ME b/c it manages my large appetite and I don't feel bloated and gross all the time. Many people can eat lots of carbs and be fine. It's a means to an end, but the ultimate reality is that CICO is all that matters overall. If you think it might help, try it. If you hate it, then STOP. It's not rocket surgery.0
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jimandpam87 wrote: »I say this as someone currently doing the ketogenic lifestyle - "low carb" diets have such a bad reputation b/c a few idiots like to claim that it gives them magical powers. It's a great way to lose weight FOR ME b/c it manages my large appetite and I don't feel bloated and gross all the time. Many people can eat lots of carbs and be fine. It's a means to an end, but the ultimate reality is that CICO is all that matters overall. If you think it might help, try it. If you hate it, then STOP. It's not rocket surgery.
pretty much agree with this...0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »
My understanding is the only reason a Ketogenic diet can work in losing weight is if that diet also puts you in a caloric deficit. Which is exactly what CICO is all about. Eat less than you burn. So, really, in order to work, Keto has to *also* be CICO. You cannot exclude it.Can you lose weight and become healthier with CICO?
Yes
Can you lose weight and become healthier with Ketogenics?
Yes
CICO, in and of itself, is not a diet. It's a proven scientific principle that has to form the basic premise of every single dietary weight loss vehicle in existence.
I never understand why people separate keto from CICO ....they are the same thing and operate on the same principle, with respect to weight loss.
For the same reason you argued for months that a low carb diet couldn't be IIFYM. These terms have a history on these forums and different connotations that people feel doesn't fit what they're trying to convey.
not sure how that is even remotely similar, but thanks for bringing up an old thread...
and for the record, low carb is not IIFYM...
I think it can be. They just choose different macros than us.0 -
Point was that eating habits of people don't change much unless intentionally changed. If one eats within their calorie range with the variety of food they like and continue it for life, chances are their weight won't fluctuate as much either.
Theoretically yes. Put in practice, very often not. Above, I listed the foodz I very much like, and have eaten all my life. I don't moderate those foodz successfully - never have and never will. And I know I'm not alone in this.
Most people don't gain weight eating too many vegetables and fresh fruits. Something like chicken is easily overeaten when breaded and fried or drenched in a corn starchy gravy laden with sugar and soy sauce as in a Chinese restaurant. If that same chicken was not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade, the notion of overeating it would be far less attractive.
But I know you're not in my camp. So we'll agree to disagree.
Well, I agree that if all you allow yourself are foods that don't taste good, the notion of overeating would be far less attractive.
The problem with your argument is that there's plenty of highly palatable ways to eat chicken that are not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade. If it's tasty, some people will overeat it.
I'm not sure if you thought I was saying eating food that doesn't taste good is what enables one to not overeat food. I wasn't though.
Taking the chicken example. Here's a practically universally tasty way of eating chicken that doesn't involve marinade, breading, frying, gravy or stuffing.
One Kosher whole chicken leg with skin, placed in a small baking dish with a half a cup of water at the bottom. Bake without covering at 400 degrees Fahrenheit until skin is crispy, dark meat inside is tender and moist and the bottom of the baking contains a nice oily juice to pour over the chicken and accompanying vegetables, seasoned perfectly by the Kosher salting process. Compatible with Paleo, low carb and Keto. Delicious, but usually not a stuff-your-face-with-it-food-until-you-need-a-nap-or-an-ambulance, like Popeyes, Kentucky Fried, chicken fingers or Szechuan chicken.
And yes, yes, I know MFP is full of sane and moderated former chubs who luv to science and never did this in the first place. They got fat eating too many mangos, asparagus salad and oat porridge. But for the rest of us...
No, it looked like you were saying that the only way people would overeat chicken is if it had been breaded or fried, dressed with starchy gravy, stuffed with Stouffer's and/or soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade.
I'm saying it's just as easy to overeat roast chicken (for example). Lots of people love roast chicken as much or more than they do fried. People overeat what they find super-tasty. And if it's something they eat often they'll be getting fat on it.
ETA: TBH, all of those things you say are "stuff-your-face-with-it-food-until-you-need-a-nap-or-an-ambulance" - those are things most people I know would rarely overeat or even buy because they just don't taste that great to them.
ETA2: The most people I'm referring to - these are all overweight or obese people.
Yup. I don't ever fry food at home, and I never liked KFC/Popeyes. If my mom makes fried chicken or if I go to a good restaurant that has it I might get it, but a much more regular meal for me when I was getting fat was roasted chicken. Sure, I'd cook some potatoes and vegetables with it (in the chicken fat in the roasting pan), but was the problem food choice or that I didn't moderate how much I ate of it very well? The latter.
Of course, eating until I needed a nap or ambulance wasn't my thing or probably most people's who end up fat. It's really easy to get fat just overeating a little, regularly. I am not a big person, and I started gaining weight when I rather abruptly became sedentary. At the time my maintenance was probably about 1600 -- it's not very hard to regularly exceed 1600 even without a lot of so-called "junk" food. (Especially if you do like to try new restaurants and hang out with foodie types.) As I got fatter my maintenance calories went up some, and I started being even more lax as to how much I ate, but it still didn't require gorging myself on the regular. Easy enough to do it with the kinds of meals I eat now -- just also allowing mindless eating of whatever happened to be on offer at the office or an added cookie after lunch and not thinking about portion sizes and then finishing my plate because it was there.0 -
Point was that eating habits of people don't change much unless intentionally changed. If one eats within their calorie range with the variety of food they like and continue it for life, chances are their weight won't fluctuate as much either.
Theoretically yes. Put in practice, very often not. Above, I listed the foodz I very much like, and have eaten all my life. I don't moderate those foodz successfully - never have and never will. And I know I'm not alone in this.
Most people don't gain weight eating too many vegetables and fresh fruits. Something like chicken is easily overeaten when breaded and fried or drenched in a corn starchy gravy laden with sugar and soy sauce as in a Chinese restaurant. If that same chicken was not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade, the notion of overeating it would be far less attractive.
But I know you're not in my camp. So we'll agree to disagree.
Well, I agree that if all you allow yourself are foods that don't taste good, the notion of overeating would be far less attractive.
The problem with your argument is that there's plenty of highly palatable ways to eat chicken that are not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade. If it's tasty, some people will overeat it.
I'm not sure if you thought I was saying eating food that doesn't taste good is what enables one to not overeat food. I wasn't though.
Taking the chicken example. Here's a practically universally tasty way of eating chicken that doesn't involve marinade, breading, frying, gravy or stuffing.
One Kosher whole chicken leg with skin, placed in a small baking dish with a half a cup of water at the bottom. Bake without covering at 400 degrees Fahrenheit until skin is crispy, dark meat inside is tender and moist and the bottom of the baking contains a nice oily juice to pour over the chicken and accompanying vegetables, seasoned perfectly by the Kosher salting process. Compatible with Paleo, low carb and Keto. Delicious, but usually not a stuff-your-face-with-it-food-until-you-need-a-nap-or-an-ambulance, like Popeyes, Kentucky Fried, chicken fingers or Szechuan chicken.
And yes, yes, I know MFP is full of sane and moderated former chubs who luv to science and never did this in the first place. They got fat eating too many mangos, asparagus salad and oat porridge. But for the rest of us...
No, it looked like you were saying that the only way people would overeat chicken is if it had been breaded or fried, dressed with starchy gravy, stuffed with Stouffer's and/or soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade.
I'm saying it's just as easy to overeat roast chicken (for example). Lots of people love roast chicken as much or more than they do fried. People overeat what they find super-tasty. And if it's something they eat often they'll be getting fat on it.
ETA: TBH, all of those things you say are "stuff-your-face-with-it-food-until-you-need-a-nap-or-an-ambulance" - those are things most people I know would rarely overeat or even buy because they just don't taste that great to them.
ETA2: The most people I'm referring to - these are all overweight or obese people.
The only chicken I will ever consider eating is roasted or grilled skinless chicken breast, but that's just me. I have an odd aversion to the taste of most things meat so I don't represent the majority. Even if people tend to like fried chicken and the like, it's not the carbs, it's the taste and texture. When it comes to savory things, I have noticed that people tend to gravitate towards crunchy on the outside and/or "rich", both of which inherently need fat but not necessarily carbs. Many people I know would overeat steak given the chance if it was a convenience low priced item. And what about the bacon craze? Some people overeat that in scary amounts although the amount of carbs is minimal.
If you could render a "starchy" gravy that is low in carbs or make a low carb breading that is indistinguishable from the real thing, I guarantee people would overeat it just the same. For perspective, the usual fried chicken thigh contains 6-8 grams of carbs and about twice that amount of fat (calories from fat are more than 4 times the calories from carbs)
When someone says they are "addicted to sugar" they usually mean they overeat high fat items that happen to contain sugar. I'm sure they exist, but it's very uncommon for people to say that and mean pixy sticks and jawbreakers.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »
My understanding is the only reason a Ketogenic diet can work in losing weight is if that diet also puts you in a caloric deficit. Which is exactly what CICO is all about. Eat less than you burn. So, really, in order to work, Keto has to *also* be CICO. You cannot exclude it.Can you lose weight and become healthier with CICO?
Yes
Can you lose weight and become healthier with Ketogenics?
Yes
CICO, in and of itself, is not a diet. It's a proven scientific principle that has to form the basic premise of every single dietary weight loss vehicle in existence.
I never understand why people separate keto from CICO ....they are the same thing and operate on the same principle, with respect to weight loss.
For the same reason you argued for months that a low carb diet couldn't be IIFYM. These terms have a history on these forums and different connotations that people feel doesn't fit what they're trying to convey.
not sure how that is even remotely similar, but thanks for bringing up an old thread...
and for the record, low carb is not IIFYM...
I think it can be. They just choose different macros than us.
Agreed, it just needs to fit the low carb, high fat macro ratio...still fitting the macros0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Point was that eating habits of people don't change much unless intentionally changed. If one eats within their calorie range with the variety of food they like and continue it for life, chances are their weight won't fluctuate as much either.
Theoretically yes. Put in practice, very often not. Above, I listed the foodz I very much like, and have eaten all my life. I don't moderate those foodz successfully - never have and never will. And I know I'm not alone in this.
Most people don't gain weight eating too many vegetables and fresh fruits. Something like chicken is easily overeaten when breaded and fried or drenched in a corn starchy gravy laden with sugar and soy sauce as in a Chinese restaurant. If that same chicken was not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade, the notion of overeating it would be far less attractive.
But I know you're not in my camp. So we'll agree to disagree.
Well, I agree that if all you allow yourself are foods that don't taste good, the notion of overeating would be far less attractive.
The problem with your argument is that there's plenty of highly palatable ways to eat chicken that are not breaded or fried, not dressed with starchy gravy, not stuffed with Stouffer's and not soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade. If it's tasty, some people will overeat it.
I'm not sure if you thought I was saying eating food that doesn't taste good is what enables one to not overeat food. I wasn't though.
Taking the chicken example. Here's a practically universally tasty way of eating chicken that doesn't involve marinade, breading, frying, gravy or stuffing.
One Kosher whole chicken leg with skin, placed in a small baking dish with a half a cup of water at the bottom. Bake without covering at 400 degrees Fahrenheit until skin is crispy, dark meat inside is tender and moist and the bottom of the baking contains a nice oily juice to pour over the chicken and accompanying vegetables, seasoned perfectly by the Kosher salting process. Compatible with Paleo, low carb and Keto. Delicious, but usually not a stuff-your-face-with-it-food-until-you-need-a-nap-or-an-ambulance, like Popeyes, Kentucky Fried, chicken fingers or Szechuan chicken.
And yes, yes, I know MFP is full of sane and moderated former chubs who luv to science and never did this in the first place. They got fat eating too many mangos, asparagus salad and oat porridge. But for the rest of us...
No, it looked like you were saying that the only way people would overeat chicken is if it had been breaded or fried, dressed with starchy gravy, stuffed with Stouffer's and/or soaked in a sugar sweetened marinade.
I'm saying it's just as easy to overeat roast chicken (for example). Lots of people love roast chicken as much or more than they do fried. People overeat what they find super-tasty. And if it's something they eat often they'll be getting fat on it.
ETA: TBH, all of those things you say are "stuff-your-face-with-it-food-until-you-need-a-nap-or-an-ambulance" - those are things most people I know would rarely overeat or even buy because they just don't taste that great to them.
ETA2: The most people I'm referring to - these are all overweight or obese people.
The only chicken I will ever consider eating is roasted or grilled skinless chicken breast, but that's just me. I have an odd aversion to the taste of most things meat so I don't represent the majority. Even if people tend to like fried chicken and the like, it's not the carbs, it's the taste and texture. When it comes to savory things, I have noticed that people tend to gravitate towards crunchy on the outside and/or "rich", both of which inherently need fat but not necessarily carbs. Many people I know would overeat steak given the chance if it was a convenience low priced item. And what about the bacon craze? Some people overeat that in scary amounts although the amount of carbs is minimal.
If you could render a "starchy" gravy that is low in carbs or make a low carb breading that is indistinguishable from the real thing, I guarantee people would overeat it just the same. For perspective, the usual fried chicken thigh contains 6-8 grams of carbs and about twice that amount of fat (calories from fat are more than 4 times the calories from carbs)
When someone says they are "addicted to sugar" they usually mean they overeat high fat items that happen to contain sugar. I'm sure they exist, but it's very uncommon for people to say that and mean pixy sticks and jawbreakers.
Yep - I agree with all of this. I can put away a frightening amount of steak for a relatively small person... People tend to like food that tastes good - period. Why everyone wants to focus on one specific ingredient, when virtually no food is made up of one single ingredient, it is the combination of several yummy things, or the memories that it evokes (lasagna will always remind me of food that my mom cooked) that make it craveable.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »
My understanding is the only reason a Ketogenic diet can work in losing weight is if that diet also puts you in a caloric deficit. Which is exactly what CICO is all about. Eat less than you burn. So, really, in order to work, Keto has to *also* be CICO. You cannot exclude it.Can you lose weight and become healthier with CICO?
Yes
Can you lose weight and become healthier with Ketogenics?
Yes
CICO, in and of itself, is not a diet. It's a proven scientific principle that has to form the basic premise of every single dietary weight loss vehicle in existence.
I never understand why people separate keto from CICO ....they are the same thing and operate on the same principle, with respect to weight loss.
For the same reason you argued for months that a low carb diet couldn't be IIFYM. These terms have a history on these forums and different connotations that people feel doesn't fit what they're trying to convey.
not sure how that is even remotely similar, but thanks for bringing up an old thread...
and for the record, low carb is not IIFYM...
I think it can be. They just choose different macros than us.
in my experience carbs are never a minimum in IIFYM0 -
PeculiarLou wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »snickerscharlie wrote: »
My understanding is the only reason a Ketogenic diet can work in losing weight is if that diet also puts you in a caloric deficit. Which is exactly what CICO is all about. Eat less than you burn. So, really, in order to work, Keto has to *also* be CICO. You cannot exclude it.Can you lose weight and become healthier with CICO?
Yes
Can you lose weight and become healthier with Ketogenics?
Yes
CICO, in and of itself, is not a diet. It's a proven scientific principle that has to form the basic premise of every single dietary weight loss vehicle in existence.
I never understand why people separate keto from CICO ....they are the same thing and operate on the same principle, with respect to weight loss.
For the same reason you argued for months that a low carb diet couldn't be IIFYM. These terms have a history on these forums and different connotations that people feel doesn't fit what they're trying to convey.
not sure how that is even remotely similar, but thanks for bringing up an old thread...
and for the record, low carb is not IIFYM...
I think it can be. They just choose different macros than us.
Agreed, it just needs to fit the low carb, high fat macro ratio...still fitting the macros
most people that do IIFYM view carbs as a filler and protein and fats are minimum ..
so I dont agree0 -
Wetcoaster wrote: »Fact or fiction? It's a real way to eat. I am not sure what you mean with that.
I don't think it is a fad. That would imply it is short lived and it was not an uncommon way to eat up into the 50s. Atkins has been around a few decades.
It can be good for those who need to reduce carbs for health reasons or enjoy eating that way.
Pros and cons are going to vary between people. I eat low carb and have for some months now. For me the pros are:- Improved blood glucose
- Improved autoimmune issues (pain reduction)
- Improved cognitive functions
- Improved energy
- Fewer headaches
- No more reactive hypoglycaemia
- Better skin
- Reduced appetite and cravings
- Easy to eat at a slight deficit and lose weight
- More regular
- Excellent food
- Improved blood lipids
The cons would be:- Inconvenience
- Ummmm......
Cons would be no yummy carbs
No yummy carbs? No no. This thread was about low carb diet and not a carnivorous, almost no carb diet.
I eat a very low carb, ketogenic diet yet last night I had green beans with butter, pork roast with some gravy, and a slice of carrot cake. There's a few things in that meal that qualify as yummy barely any carbs.Fact or fiction? It's a real way to eat. I am not sure what you mean with that.
I don't think it is a fad. That would imply it is short lived and it was not an uncommon way to eat up into the 50s. Atkins has been around a few decades.
It can be good for those who need to reduce carbs for health reasons or enjoy eating that way.
Pros and cons are going to vary between people. I eat low carb and have for some months now. For me the pros are:- Improved blood glucose
- Improved autoimmune issues (pain reduction)
- Improved cognitive functions
- Improved energy
- Fewer headaches
- No more reactive hypoglycaemia
- Better skin
- Reduced appetite and cravings
- Easy to eat at a slight deficit and lose weight
- More regular
- Excellent food
- Improved blood lipids
The cons would be:- Inconvenience
- Ummmm......
OP just putting a disclaimer here that this is great for this poster but does may not apply to you or the rest of the population ...
Fixed.
fixed it for you
0
This discussion has been closed.
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