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Going to bed hungry
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RAD_Fitness wrote: »positivepowers wrote: »rwheelin2017 wrote: »The trick is to eat before bed! But just eat the right foods before bed; slow-digesting protein, like cottage cheese or a piece of skinless chicken, coupled with low-carb fruit or vegetables
Exactly!! I've been involved in fitness for many years. There is absolutely no reason you should ever go hungry. Before bed there is nothing wrong with eating as long as it's a protein. I usually opt for a snack of chicken. Not a meal, mind you, but a snack.
Waking up in the middle of the night with hunger pains will sabotage any weight loss you had/have planned. Some people will even sleep eat and that's not good because their go to food will be that chocolate cake left over from the kid's birthday party ( not like I've ever done this or anything
What if I eat carbs instead of protein????
Carbs cause a spike in blood sugar then a swift descent, leading to more intense hunger pangs. Protein is digested more slowly and does not cause the rapid spike.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/9/2375.long
Granted the focus of the study was on diabetics, but the information does correlate to those with normal sugar regulating metabolisms.
protein causes a similar insulin spike...
No it doesnt
Re quoting this because @RAD_Fitness did say that protein does not cause similar spike...1 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »positivepowers wrote: »rwheelin2017 wrote: »The trick is to eat before bed! But just eat the right foods before bed; slow-digesting protein, like cottage cheese or a piece of skinless chicken, coupled with low-carb fruit or vegetables
Exactly!! I've been involved in fitness for many years. There is absolutely no reason you should ever go hungry. Before bed there is nothing wrong with eating as long as it's a protein. I usually opt for a snack of chicken. Not a meal, mind you, but a snack.
Waking up in the middle of the night with hunger pains will sabotage any weight loss you had/have planned. Some people will even sleep eat and that's not good because their go to food will be that chocolate cake left over from the kid's birthday party ( not like I've ever done this or anything
What if I eat carbs instead of protein????
Carbs cause a spike in blood sugar then a swift descent, leading to more intense hunger pangs. Protein is digested more slowly and does not cause the rapid spike.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/9/2375.long
Granted the focus of the study was on diabetics, but the information does correlate to those with normal sugar regulating metabolisms.
protein causes a similar insulin spike...
No it doesnt
actually it does..
This is very basic nutrition. Not something that's up for debate haha
You're correct, it's not up for debate haha. Except that you're misinformed (as usual) and trying to debate the wrong side of it. Protein causes an insulin spike similar to that of carbohydrate. Here's the science, plenty of peer-reviewed studies referenced and linked: http://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
Did you even look at the studies that were listed in the article you posted?
They repeat, they're off topic from what the article is trying to make it seem as the study is saying and you can't even see the full study, just the abstract.
ETA:
the study says this:
"Total carbohydrate (r = 0.39, P < 0.05, n = 36) and sugar (r = 0.36, P < 0.05, n = 36) contents were positively related to the mean insulin scores, whereas fat (r = -0.27, NS, n = 36) and protein (r = -0.24, NS, n = 38) contents were negatively related."
then the article says this:
"In fact, one study found beef to stimulate just as much insulin secretion as brown rice. The blood sugar response of 38 different foods could only explain 23% of the variability in insulin secretion in this study. Thus, there's a lot more that's behind insulin secretion than just carbohydrate."
I guess you missed this part...
Comparison of insulin response between low protein, high carb meal and high protein, low carb meal
Thank you. He simply cherry-picked a couple sentences completely out of context in an attempt to "prove" his errant thinking.
Here's the whole abstract since you were unable to check for yourself. Out of context? Nope.
"The aim of this study was to systematically compare postprandial insulin responses to isoenergetic 1000-kJ (240-kcal) portions of several common foods. Correlations with nutrient content were determined. Thirty-eight foods separated into six food categories (fruit, bakery products, snacks, carbohydrate-rich foods, protein-rich foods, and breakfast cereals) were fed to groups of 11-13 healthy subjects. Finger-prick blood samples were obtained every 15 min over 120 min. An insulin score was calculated from the area under the insulin response curve for each food with use of white bread as the reference food (score = 100%). Significant differences in insulin score were found both within and among the food categories and also among foods containing a similar amount of carbohydrate. Overall, glucose and insulin scores were highly correlated (r = 0.70, P < 0.001, n = 38). However, protein-rich foods and bakery products (rich in fat and refined carbohydrate) elicited insulin responses that were disproportionately higher than their glycemic responses. Total carbohydrate (r = 0.39, P < 0.05, n = 36) and sugar (r = 0.36, P < 0.05, n = 36) contents were positively related to the mean insulin scores, whereas fat (r = -0.27, NS, n = 36) and protein (r = -0.24, NS, n = 38) contents were negatively related. Consideration of insulin scores may be relevant to the dietary management and pathogenesis of non-insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus and hyperlipidemia and may help increase the accuracy of estimating preprandial insulin requirements."
You guys always talk about, if you claim it to be true, you gotta back it up. Looks like you guys can't do that.
What point do you believe you have made? I'm just trying to follow this discussion, and I think you are talking at cross purposes (at best).
And back to the initial assertion that you are trying to defend: apart from the possible effect on sleep (which will be individual and has zero to do with choosing protein over carbs), what is the difference for weight loss between eating 2000 calories, with 1000 calories of carbs, all eaten before 5 pm, and a diet that instead includes 2000 calories, and 1000 calories of carbs, in which 200 of the carb calories are consumed at 10 pm?
I think you may be confused again about who said what and what I actually said.
No, you are back tracking , because wrong2 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »I was making a point that carbohydrates and protein do not have a similar insulin response.
In fairness, this is true.RAD_Fitness wrote: »The insulin response from carbs is significantly greater.
Again in fairness, according to an insulin index, this is also true. If you go by the "averages", not as significant but higher none the less...
4 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »I was making a point that carbohydrates and protein do not have a similar insulin response.
In fairness, this is true.RAD_Fitness wrote: »The insulin response from carbs is significantly greater.
Again in fairness, according to an insulin index, this is also true. If you go by the "averages", not as significant but higher none the less...
this all stemmed from someone saying don't eat carbs before bed because insulin spike, and then recommended protein, which also spikes insulin. The whole point was that eating protein before bed was not going to make one avoid an insulin spike. Then rad decided to interject himself in the whole thing and blow it out of proportion...1 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »I was making a point that carbohydrates and protein do not have a similar insulin response.
In fairness, this is true.RAD_Fitness wrote: »The insulin response from carbs is significantly greater.
Again in fairness, according to an insulin index, this is also true. If you go by the "averages", not as significant but higher none the less...
this all stemmed from someone saying don't eat carbs before bed because insulin spike, and then recommended protein, which also spikes insulin. The whole point was that eating protein before bed was not going to make one avoid an insulin spike. Then rad decided to interject himself in the whole thing and blow it out of proportion...
I agree, just trying to at the very least be fair...1 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »I was making a point that carbohydrates and protein do not have a similar insulin response.
In fairness, this is true.RAD_Fitness wrote: »The insulin response from carbs is significantly greater.
Again in fairness, according to an insulin index, this is also true. If you go by the "averages", not as significant but higher none the less...
this all stemmed from someone saying don't eat carbs before bed because insulin spike, and then recommended protein, which also spikes insulin. The whole point was that eating protein before bed was not going to make one avoid an insulin spike. Then rad decided to interject himself in the whole thing and blow it out of proportion...
You know, thinking about it when I was responding to RAD_Fitness, the weirdest thing about that post is that they said avoid everything but protein because insulin, but what about fat?
Of course, bigger point, who cares if it spikes insulin.
From that chart, peanuts (which have some carbs, and are more of a source of fat than protein) would be a good choice if you didn't want to spike insulin at all.
So I'm still wondering why that was such good, correct advice.1 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »positivepowers wrote: »rwheelin2017 wrote: »The trick is to eat before bed! But just eat the right foods before bed; slow-digesting protein, like cottage cheese or a piece of skinless chicken, coupled with low-carb fruit or vegetables
Exactly!! I've been involved in fitness for many years. There is absolutely no reason you should ever go hungry. Before bed there is nothing wrong with eating as long as it's a protein. I usually opt for a snack of chicken. Not a meal, mind you, but a snack.
Waking up in the middle of the night with hunger pains will sabotage any weight loss you had/have planned. Some people will even sleep eat and that's not good because their go to food will be that chocolate cake left over from the kid's birthday party ( not like I've ever done this or anything
What if I eat carbs instead of protein????
Carbs cause a spike in blood sugar then a swift descent, leading to more intense hunger pangs. Protein is digested more slowly and does not cause the rapid spike.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/9/2375.long
Granted the focus of the study was on diabetics, but the information does correlate to those with normal sugar regulating metabolisms.
protein causes a similar insulin spike...
No it doesnt
actually it does..
This is very basic nutrition. Not something that's up for debate haha
You're correct, it's not up for debate haha. Except that you're misinformed (as usual) and trying to debate the wrong side of it. Protein causes an insulin spike similar to that of carbohydrate. Here's the science, plenty of peer-reviewed studies referenced and linked: http://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
Did you even look at the studies that were listed in the article you posted?
They repeat, they're off topic from what the article is trying to make it seem as the study is saying and you can't even see the full study, just the abstract.
ETA:
the study says this:
"Total carbohydrate (r = 0.39, P < 0.05, n = 36) and sugar (r = 0.36, P < 0.05, n = 36) contents were positively related to the mean insulin scores, whereas fat (r = -0.27, NS, n = 36) and protein (r = -0.24, NS, n = 38) contents were negatively related."
then the article says this:
"In fact, one study found beef to stimulate just as much insulin secretion as brown rice. The blood sugar response of 38 different foods could only explain 23% of the variability in insulin secretion in this study. Thus, there's a lot more that's behind insulin secretion than just carbohydrate."
That does seem contradictory
Also doesn't brown rice constitute a complex carbohydrate source (which includes protein and fiber)? And doesn't beef contain significant fat? Wouldn't the more apt comparison be to look at lean chicken vs. white rice or white bread? I don't understand what point they're making by comparing the insulin response of beef and brown rice, since both are sources of multiple macros.0 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »positivepowers wrote: »rwheelin2017 wrote: »The trick is to eat before bed! But just eat the right foods before bed; slow-digesting protein, like cottage cheese or a piece of skinless chicken, coupled with low-carb fruit or vegetables
Exactly!! I've been involved in fitness for many years. There is absolutely no reason you should ever go hungry. Before bed there is nothing wrong with eating as long as it's a protein. I usually opt for a snack of chicken. Not a meal, mind you, but a snack.
Waking up in the middle of the night with hunger pains will sabotage any weight loss you had/have planned. Some people will even sleep eat and that's not good because their go to food will be that chocolate cake left over from the kid's birthday party ( not like I've ever done this or anything
What if I eat carbs instead of protein????
Carbs cause a spike in blood sugar then a swift descent, leading to more intense hunger pangs. Protein is digested more slowly and does not cause the rapid spike.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/9/2375.long
Granted the focus of the study was on diabetics, but the information does correlate to those with normal sugar regulating metabolisms.
protein causes a similar insulin spike...
No it doesnt
actually it does..
This is very basic nutrition. Not something that's up for debate haha
You're correct, it's not up for debate haha. Except that you're misinformed (as usual) and trying to debate the wrong side of it. Protein causes an insulin spike similar to that of carbohydrate. Here's the science, plenty of peer-reviewed studies referenced and linked: http://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
Did you even look at the studies that were listed in the article you posted?
They repeat, they're off topic from what the article is trying to make it seem as the study is saying and you can't even see the full study, just the abstract.
ETA:
the study says this:
"Total carbohydrate (r = 0.39, P < 0.05, n = 36) and sugar (r = 0.36, P < 0.05, n = 36) contents were positively related to the mean insulin scores, whereas fat (r = -0.27, NS, n = 36) and protein (r = -0.24, NS, n = 38) contents were negatively related."
then the article says this:
"In fact, one study found beef to stimulate just as much insulin secretion as brown rice. The blood sugar response of 38 different foods could only explain 23% of the variability in insulin secretion in this study. Thus, there's a lot more that's behind insulin secretion than just carbohydrate."
That does seem contradictory
Also doesn't brown rice constitute a complex carbohydrate source (which includes protein and fiber)? And doesn't beef contain significant fat? Wouldn't the more apt comparison be to look at lean chicken vs. white rice or white bread? I don't understand what point they're making by comparing the insulin response of beef and brown rice, since both are sources of multiple macros.
Brown rice doesn't have significantly more protein or fiber than white rice and the fattiness of beef depends on the cut.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Of course, bigger point, who cares if it spikes insulin.
Right becasue how else can you shuttle amino acids into your muscles for growth and repair if protein didn't spike insulin..?
4 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »RAD_Fitness wrote: »positivepowers wrote: »rwheelin2017 wrote: »The trick is to eat before bed! But just eat the right foods before bed; slow-digesting protein, like cottage cheese or a piece of skinless chicken, coupled with low-carb fruit or vegetables
Exactly!! I've been involved in fitness for many years. There is absolutely no reason you should ever go hungry. Before bed there is nothing wrong with eating as long as it's a protein. I usually opt for a snack of chicken. Not a meal, mind you, but a snack.
Waking up in the middle of the night with hunger pains will sabotage any weight loss you had/have planned. Some people will even sleep eat and that's not good because their go to food will be that chocolate cake left over from the kid's birthday party ( not like I've ever done this or anything
What if I eat carbs instead of protein????
Carbs cause a spike in blood sugar then a swift descent, leading to more intense hunger pangs. Protein is digested more slowly and does not cause the rapid spike.
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/53/9/2375.long
Granted the focus of the study was on diabetics, but the information does correlate to those with normal sugar regulating metabolisms.
protein causes a similar insulin spike...
No it doesnt
actually it does..
This is very basic nutrition. Not something that's up for debate haha
You're correct, it's not up for debate haha. Except that you're misinformed (as usual) and trying to debate the wrong side of it. Protein causes an insulin spike similar to that of carbohydrate. Here's the science, plenty of peer-reviewed studies referenced and linked: http://weightology.net/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/
Did you even look at the studies that were listed in the article you posted?
They repeat, they're off topic from what the article is trying to make it seem as the study is saying and you can't even see the full study, just the abstract.
ETA:
the study says this:
"Total carbohydrate (r = 0.39, P < 0.05, n = 36) and sugar (r = 0.36, P < 0.05, n = 36) contents were positively related to the mean insulin scores, whereas fat (r = -0.27, NS, n = 36) and protein (r = -0.24, NS, n = 38) contents were negatively related."
then the article says this:
"In fact, one study found beef to stimulate just as much insulin secretion as brown rice. The blood sugar response of 38 different foods could only explain 23% of the variability in insulin secretion in this study. Thus, there's a lot more that's behind insulin secretion than just carbohydrate."
That does seem contradictory
Also doesn't brown rice constitute a complex carbohydrate source (which includes protein and fiber)? And doesn't beef contain significant fat? Wouldn't the more apt comparison be to look at lean chicken vs. white rice or white bread? I don't understand what point they're making by comparing the insulin response of beef and brown rice, since both are sources of multiple macros.
All starches are complex carbs. The idea that brown rice is and white rice is not is based on a misunderstanding (common one) of what a complex carb is.
White rice and brown rice aren't particularly different on the GI scale, because the amount of fiber in brown rice is commonly overestimated by people who think it makes a difference (protein is usually pretty similar too).
Brown rice is mostly carb.
Ah, good old USDA:
brown basmati rice: 33 g carbs (88%) in 150 calories (45 g), 4 g protein, 2 g fiber.
white basmati rice: 34 g carbs in 160 calories (45 g), 3 g protein, 1 g fiber.
(No brown rice vs. white bias here; I don't like any rice that much and slightly prefer brown. Wild rice is great, but not really rice.)1 -
RAD_Fitness wrote: »I was making a point that carbohydrates and protein do not have a similar insulin response.
In fairness, this is true.RAD_Fitness wrote: »The insulin response from carbs is significantly greater.
Again in fairness, according to an insulin index, this is also true. If you go by the "averages", not as significant but higher none the less...
this all stemmed from someone saying don't eat carbs before bed because insulin spike, and then recommended protein, which also spikes insulin. The whole point was that eating protein before bed was not going to make one avoid an insulin spike. Then rad decided to interject himself in the whole thing and blow it out of proportion...
I agree, just trying to at the very least be fair...
Understand and agree
1
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