Sugar-free drinks: the good, the bad and the 'we should be aware'!
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"Sucralose is one of the most tested food ingredients available today. It has been found safe for its intended use by health and food safety experts from around the world. Sucralose is permitted for use in more than 100 countries. It is used in thousands of food and beverage products worldwide and is safe for use over an entire lifetime.
More than 100 scientific studies conducted to describe the safety of sucralose represent a methodical, intentional, and broad-range research program, as required by prominent health and food safety authorities. [R]esearch studies conducted in describing the safety of a new food ingredient must be rigorous and comprehensive.
The studies conducted to assess the safety of sucralose investigated possible effects with short-term exposures and long-term, essentially lifetime, exposures, from conception to advanced adulthood. Many of the sucralose research studies utilized very high daily doses of sucralose, doses far greater that what could be expected to be consumed, to understand margins for safe use. Use of such high daily doses was particularly employed in the core sucralose research studies, in accordance with international standards for studies designed to determine potential risk.
The most frequently cited study supposedly documenting the harmful effects of sucralose was one (conducted with rats, not humans, and funded by the Sugar Association) published in the Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health in 2008 that reportedly found Splenda might "contribute to obesity, destroy 'good' intestinal bacteria and prevent prescription drugs from being absorbed." However, even that study was refuted by one published the following year in Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology which reported that an Expert Panel had found that the previous study was "deficient in several critical areas" and that its conclusions "are not consistent with published literature and not supported by the data presented":
A recent study in rats investigated the retail sweetener product, Granulated SPLENDA No Calorie Sweetener (Splenda). The investigators reported that Splenda increased body weight, decreased beneficial intestinal bacteria, and increased the expression of certain cytochrome P450 (CYP450) enzymes and the transporter protein, P-glycoprotein (P-gp), the latter of which was considered evidence that Splenda or sucralose might interfere with the absorption of nutrients and drugs. The investigators indicated that the reported changes were attributable to the sucralose present in the product tested. An Expert Panel conducted a rigorous evaluation of this study. In arriving at its conclusions, the Expert Panel considered the design and conduct of the study, its outcomes and the outcomes reported in other data available publicly. The Expert Panel found that the study was deficient in several critical areas and that its results cannot be interpreted as evidence that either Splenda, or sucralose, produced adverse effects in male rats, including effects on gastrointestinal microflora, body weight, CYP450 and P-gp activity, and nutrient and drug absorption. The study conclusions are not consistent with published literature and not supported by the data presented." Snopes.com
Sources
1. Baird, I.M., et al. "Repeated Dose Study of Sucralose Tolerance in Human Subjects."
Food and Chemical Toxicology 2000;38 Suppl 2:S123-9.
2. Brusick, D. "Expert Panel Report on a Study of Splenda in Male Rats."
Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology 2009 Oct;55(1):6-12.
3. de la Peña. Empty Pleasures: The Story of Artificial Sweeteners from Saccharin to Splenda.
Greensboro: Univ. of North Carolina Press, 2010. ISBN 978-0-8078-3409-1 (pp. 219-224).
4. Gratzer, Walter. Eurekas and Euphorias: The Oxford Book of Scientific Anecdotes.
Oxford University Press, 2002. ISBN 978-0-1928-0403-7 (pp. 14-15).
5.Grotz, V.L., et al. "An Overview of the Safety of Sucralose."
Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology 2009 Oct;55(1):1-5.
6.O'Brien-Nabors, Lyn. Alternative Sweeteners [Fourth Edition].
Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press, 2011. ISBN 978-1-4398-4614-8 (pp. 185-186).
7.Rodero, A.B., et al. "Toxicity of Sucralose in Humans: A Review."
International Journal of Morphology 27(1):239-244, 2009.
8.Schwarz, Joe. An Apple a Day: The Myths, Misconceptions and Truths About the Foods We Eat.
Toronto: HarperCollins, 2007. ISBN 978-1-55468-399-4 (pp. 203-204).
9.Sollid, Kris, R.D.. "Fast Take: Sucralose & Health."
Food Insight 8 February 2016.0 -
Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss - Xylitol has stalled me at one time during my own weight loss - I also read yesterday that artificially sweetened drinks are hard on tooth enamel and damaging
Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants
So, how would they stall weight loss?
There is some evidence that calorie free artificial sweeteners mess up the mechanism our brain uses to decide if we have had enough to eat... I'm not claiming to know the science behind it. I'm simply stating what my experience has been.
Another interesting experience is that I have had to caution people on how many apples they consume as they have also been a culprit of stalling.
You don't have your patients count calories? No food "stalls" weight loss if they eat at a deficit.0 -
peter56765 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I'm staying away from artificial sweeteners. Drinking sodas isn't important enough to me to wait for more research. I like a glass of wine, or a shot of scotch, and I stop at one.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/artificial-sweeteners-may-change-our-gut-bacteria-in-dangerous-ways/
A mouse study. Further study on gut bacteria:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26474235
CONCLUSION:
In both humans and animals there are characteristic changes in the gut microbiota associated with obesity. In animals but not in humans altering the microbiota can result in weight loss and weight gain which does not occur in humans. This suggests that in humans the changes in gut microbiota are an association with rather than the cause of obesity.
Further noted in the scientific american article cited above:
These patterns do not prove that the sweeteners caused the problems. Indeed, it is quite possible that overweight people are simply more likely than others to consume artificial sweeteners. But Segal's team went further, testing the association directly in a small group of lean and healthy human volunteers who normally eschewed artificial sweeteners. After consuming the U.S. Food and Drug Administration's maximum dose of saccharin over a period of five days, four of the seven subjects showed a reduced glucose response in addition to an abrupt change in their gut microbes. The three volunteers whose glucose tolerance did not dip showed no change in their gut microbes.
Although not everyone seems susceptible to this effect, the findings do warrant more research, the scientists say. The Israeli group concluded in its paper that artificial sweeteners “may have directly contributed to enhancing the exact epidemic that they themselves were intended to fight”—that is, the sweeteners may be making at least some of us heavier and more ill.
Edited to add - of course further research is warranted - there are conflicting findings.
Yeah, I am making an informed choice that there is no reason for ME to consume artificial sweeteners on a regular basis. Plus, they taste nasty.0 -
Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss - Xylitol has stalled me at one time during my own weight loss - I also read yesterday that artificially sweetened drinks are hard on tooth enamel and damaging
Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants
So, how would they stall weight loss?
There is some evidence that calorie free artificial sweeteners mess up the mechanism our brain uses to decide if we have had enough to eat... I'm not claiming to know the science behind it. I'm simply stating what my experience has been.
Another interesting experience is that I have had to caution people on how many apples they consume as they have also been a culprit of stalling.
What is the mechanism behind apples, aspartame and sucralose causing your patients (???!!!!????) to stall?
I assume as you have patients you can provide detailed clinical evidence and a resounding rationale for your claim?
These are rather bold claims, I'd love to see some evidence, otherwise it's really no different than saying your patients (!!!!?????!!!!!) stalled in their weigh loss because they put their right shoe on before their left.0 -
Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »There is some evidence that calorie free artificial sweeteners mess up the mechanism our brain uses to decide if we have had enough to eat... I'm not claiming to know the science behind it. I'm simply stating what my experience has been.
Then please post that evidence.Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »Another interesting experience is that I have had to caution people on how many apples they consume as they have also been a culprit of stalling.
So do you post on threads where people are talking about fruit/veggies warning them of the dangers of apple eating?Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »There is some evidence that calorie free artificial sweeteners mess up the mechanism our brain uses to decide if we have had enough to eat... I'm not claiming to know the science behind it. I'm simply stating what my experience has been.
Then you probably shouldn't be counseling your coworkers to not consume it or posting anecdotal evidence on message boards. I don't claim to know the science behind Star Trek transporter technology. That's why I don't troll around on the internet explaining how Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle can be negated and asking people to give up driving to work when why don't they just use transporters.0 -
Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss - Xylitol has stalled me at one time during my own weight loss - I also read yesterday that artificially sweetened drinks are hard on tooth enamel and damaging
Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants
You're saying artificial sweeteners damage tooth enamel? Or do you mean the acid in diet soda damages tooth enamel?
Research has highlighted that there is a lack of data on the potential actions of foods containing certain sweeteners, yes, sugar and acid in general can be damaging. I just thought it was interesting that I came across an article that was stating that sweeteners are hard on enamel.
I just find it interesting because there's been a slew of articles from dental hygienists* saying that using xylitol can reduce the number of dental caries people experience. My dental hygienist keeps giving me literature on it.
*My friend who is a dentist just shakes his head at this research and smiles politely since he has the same dental hygienist I do.0 -
Believe what you want or don't want. My experience with artificial sweetener is not good. Why do I get headaches when taking it in? Why does my friend's lupus symptoms disappear after stopping diet drinks? Why does my mother continue to overeat, even when she's drinking and eating diet foods? I don't need an article or study to tell me to stay away. The choice is yours.0
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Believe what you want or don't want. My experience with artificial sweetener is not good. Why do I get headaches when taking it in? Why does my friend's lupus symptoms disappear after stopping diet drinks? Why does my mother continue to overeat, even when she's drinking and eating diet foods? I don't need an article or study to tell me to stay away. The choice is yours.
You all put your left shoe on before your right?0 -
Believe what you want or don't want. My experience with artificial sweetener is not good. Why do I get headaches when taking it in? Why does my friend's lupus symptoms disappear after stopping diet drinks? Why does my mother continue to overeat, even when she's drinking and eating diet foods? I don't need an article or study to tell me to stay away. The choice is yours.
I don't think anyone has argued that individual bodies can't have individual negative reactions. Just that it's inappropriate to say "these people I know have negative reactions and we seem to be able to trace it to the sweeteners, therefore no one else should have them." Plenty of people have particular sensitivities or reactions to kinds of foods, even outside of allergies. Doesn't make them across-the-board bad for you.0 -
Believe what you want or don't want. My experience with artificial sweetener is not good. Why do I get headaches when taking it in? Why does my friend's lupus symptoms disappear after stopping diet drinks? Why does my mother continue to overeat, even when she's drinking and eating diet foods? I don't need an article or study to tell me to stay away. The choice is yours.
So, you stay away from them. That does not mean others have to. The logic that since I have an issue with something so everyone should avoid it is an incorrect conclusion. The correct conclusion is since you and your friend have issues, you should avoid, not necessarily anyone else. My wife has issues with broccoli and cauliflower which developed over time. By your thinking everyone should avoid these because she has issues. That is simply not correct. She should and does avoid them, I, however, enjoy them.0 -
Believe what you want or don't want. My experience with artificial sweetener is not good. Why do I get headaches when taking it in? Why does my friend's lupus symptoms disappear after stopping diet drinks? Why does my mother continue to overeat, even when she's drinking and eating diet foods? I don't need an article or study to tell me to stay away. The choice is yours.
Are you hedging with using the term lupus "symptoms" or are you seriously stating that your friend's lupus was cured by cutting out diet sodas? I'm guessing your mom overeats because she overeats regardless of whether she's eating "diet" foods. Diet Coke doesn't magically stop people from overeating.
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My experience isn't everyone else's, I KNOW that. Since y'all jumped on me so quick i had to go back and read what I wrote. Would I like for everyone not to use them, absolutely. Am I so ignorant that they don't work on everyone the way they did on me, ABSOLUTELY NOT. I do know that my experience isn't meant for everyone, but who knows, it just may help someone. If not you, then ignore and carry on.1
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First, Mercola is a loon, a complete quack. The fact that you think he may offer anything compelling speaks volumes of your ability to discern good data from bad. Second, what you posted is a Gish-gallop, which is a really poor debating technique that people use when they have a weak position. Look up Gish-gallop, it's not a technique used by real, legitimate scientists. I took a look at the first 10 studies, rodents, small n, invitro. I knew it was going nowhere. What I would like to see posted is a study or 2 supporting your position, you know, like how real debates happen. But for some reason you can't. My guess is because you don't understand science or research. Yes, I wanted to get my point across, and I did. You still have nothing to offer. And, no, you have not read through those studies, or if you did then you clearly dont understand what your reading, because if you did, you could easily pull out one or two and have a real discussion. But for some reason you can't.ronjsteele1 wrote: »John Welk, apparently you didn't want to take the time to read through every single study from the list of peer reviewed studies I posted. They are not all anti-artificial sweetener if you read through them. But then again, I should have known you really didn't want them posted. You just wanted to get your point across. That's fine. you think I have nothing - I think you have nothing. Because I have read through those studies (both pro and con) in making my choices.
No, it's lazy to to dump over 50 studies and expect people to read every single one, especially when it's all animal, invitro and small n. Again, It's called a Gish-gallop, look it up, it's a pretty weak debating technique. You see in real science it takes more thought and brain power to find and post a good study to support your argument. No one said anything about posting a study and have it be definitive, just a study to show that you understand the research and you can support your position. And for some reason you can't do that. Again, maybe it's because you don't understand science and research. And maybe it's because you have nothing.ronjsteele1 wrote: »but it takes way more thought and brain power then lazily posting a "study" and saying it's definitive. I won't post one study because in my mind, one study is more of a skew then a conglomerate of studies that show a pattern over and over again.
Yes, all alternative medicine is suspect. It fails miserably when tested. If it works when tested it becomes medicine. Again, if you understood science and research you would dismiss alternative medicine, it's based on prescientific ideas and magic. Also, might want to rethink about using alternative medicine:ronjsteele1 wrote: »No, anything alternative is not suspect. Just because you say so, does not make it so. And vice versa is true too. But given what I've seen in my lifetime I'll hedge my bets on the alternative realm over the medical realm any day
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23110809
Can you get vioxx now? No you can't. Why is that?ronjsteele1 wrote: »Vioxx? Because it was FDA approved, of course. I mean after tons of animal studies and lying about human study results with vioxx we can trust the FDA with aspartame, right?. That's why I bring up Vioxx. If all one does is look at the history of drugs the FDA has approved and why they have approved them (pharmaceutical conflicts of interest all over that place vs. bad study outcomes) and what they've had to pull from the market, one would wonder why anyone would believe anything they say is "safe" means anything. Personal opinion. Mercola has more credibility then they do as far as I'm concerned (and I wouldn't buy any of his supplements either - follow the money). But the FDA says nutrasweet is safe so surely they're right.....I prefer to keep healthy skepticism on both sides.
The problems of vioxx getting approved has nothing to do with artificial sweeteners. It's a distraction, plain and simple.
Again a long substance free rant from researcher extreme ronjsteel. And I'm sure we'll get another right after this. Why not try something different? One study that supports your position that artificial sweeteners are harmful to human health, not rodent healt, not invitro. Humans. It should be easy for you since you have such a good grasp of the literature.0 -
Believe what you want or don't want. My experience with artificial sweetener is not good. Why do I get headaches when taking it in? Why does my friend's lupus symptoms disappear after stopping diet drinks? Why does my mother continue to overeat, even when she's drinking and eating diet foods? I don't need an article or study to tell me to stay away. The choice is yours.
Well, why does dairy make one of my kids need to park in the bathroom for hours? Why do tomatoes make my sister in law seriously ill? Why does a friend of mine end up in the ER when she has gluten? I don't think anyone is arguing that some people may be sensitive/allergic to artificial sweeteners, but that doesn't automatically make them bad for everyone. It just means that if you're one of those people then you should avoid them (like my daughter avoids dairy etc).
In my own experience with artificial sweeteners-they cause no ill affects and they did not hinder my weight loss efforts (or maintenance). I've also gone through phases where I've cut them out, and nothing magical happened/nothing changed with my health. I've talked to my doctor about drinking diet soda and she's told me they're totally fine. I have excellent blood panels, blood pressure, bmi and good health with no medical issues at all. To each their own!0 -
My experience isn't everyone else's, I KNOW that. Since y'all jumped on me so quick i had to go back and read what I wrote. Would I like for everyone not to use them, absolutely. Am I so ignorant that they don't work on everyone the way they did on me, ABSOLUTELY NOT. I do know that my experience isn't meant for everyone, but who knows, it just may help someone. If not you, then ignore and carry on.
Well, I mean, you did say that sweeteners are so unsafe that they shouldn't even be sold in grocery stores...so...not sure where the indignation is coming from.0 -
Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Holly_Wood_888 wrote: »I run a weight loss program at work. In my experience, Aspartame and Sucralose will stall my patients in their loss - Xylitol has stalled me at one time during my own weight loss - I also read yesterday that artificially sweetened drinks are hard on tooth enamel and damaging
Stevia and Xylitol are better options for sweeteners because they are derived from plants
So, how would they stall weight loss?
There is some evidence that calorie free artificial sweeteners mess up the mechanism our brain uses to decide if we have had enough to eat... I'm not claiming to know the science behind it. I'm simply stating what my experience has been.
Another interesting experience is that I have had to caution people on how many apples they consume as they have also been a culprit of stalling.
In regards to sweeteners, I would much rather use xylitol than Aspartame as Aspartame breaks down into methanol, amino acids and several other chemicals... The methanol is quickly absorbed and converted into formaldehyde.
"The fact that methanol and formaldehyde are breakdown products of aspartame sounds scary to consumers. Therefore, it is important to know that formaldehyde is produced by our bodies every day in amounts thousands of times greater than you would ever get from aspartame, as it is a key metabolite that is needed to make other essential compounds, including DNA. Also, the known toxic effects of methanol relate not to formaldehyde, but to the build-up of formic acid in the blood. The breakdown of formic acid is slower than the breakdown of formaldehyde, so if there is a very large dose of methanol (or formaldehyde) coming into the body, formic acid can build up and that causes the adverse effects seen in methanol poisoning.
To put this into perspective, studies in healthy adults and infants consuming up to 200mg per kg of body weight (50 times the amounts Americans consume on average), showed no change in the levels of formic acid in the blood (1,2)."
http://www.andeal.org/topic.cfm?cat=4089
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/are-artificial-sweeteners-safe/0 -
Rational thought and science trumps again!0
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Believe what you want or don't want. My experience with artificial sweetener is not good. Why do I get headaches when taking it in? Why does my friend's lupus symptoms disappear after stopping diet drinks? Why does my mother continue to overeat, even when she's drinking and eating diet foods? I don't need an article or study to tell me to stay away. The choice is yours.
I don't think anyone has argued that individual bodies can't have individual negative reactions. Just that it's inappropriate to say "these people I know have negative reactions and we seem to be able to trace it to the sweeteners, therefore no one else should have them." Plenty of people have particular sensitivities or reactions to kinds of foods, even outside of allergies. Doesn't make them across-the-board bad for you.
Many people on MFP STRONGLY argue against the notion that people can react differently to different foods, medicines, etc l. except in the case of severe allergies.
Just as an experiment, post that some food is problematic for you and leads to extreme cravings and see what response you get. Even if you suggest it doesn't necessarily apply to others, you will get little support here.0 -
My experience isn't everyone else's, I KNOW that. Since y'all jumped on me so quick i had to go back and read what I wrote. Would I like for everyone not to use them, absolutely. Am I so ignorant that they don't work on everyone the way they did on me, ABSOLUTELY NOT. I do know that my experience isn't meant for everyone, but who knows, it just may help someone. If not you, then ignore and carry on.
Well, I mean, you did say that sweeteners are so unsafe that they shouldn't even be sold in grocery stores...so...not sure where the indignation is coming from.
Nope, I said the FDA stopped taking in reports and assume they probably wouldn't be on the shelves.
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