married chit-chatters?
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So many thoughtful contributions to the conversation. I want to respond but am at work now and would not be able to contribute meaningfully. I hope to be back later though if the subject is still active.
In short. I agree with RPS, I view sex or lack of it as a symptom or a larger issue with intimacy. For me the commitment of a marriage is more important than the need for sex. If it got to the point where I need to have sex with someone else I would be getting out of the marriage. That's not a value judgement on anyone here the feels different. That's just where my personal line is drawn.
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kevinf2380 wrote: »I agree with Meredith. Marriage is hard and takes work from both parties. I've been married 24 years.
I also can relate to some of the less happy posters here but don't want to get into details in a public forum.
Marriage takes work but if both parties are not working at it sometimes a better course of action is to make a change rather than staying in a bad situation where no one is happy and the kids do not learn what a loving relationship looks like.
Do you think a bad sex life is worthy of getting a divorce? I don't really see how that would justify going through the emotional and financial devastation of divorce. Not to mention what it does to kids. I can see why people think it's easier to stay in the marriage but find something on the side.
What I'm sure no one talks about openly but I'm sure happens is more open relationships. Where a wife or husband openly admits they no longer have the sex drive they did before and allows their spouse to fill their desires elsewhere. If all other aspects of the marriage are satisfied except for sex I don't see why it's worth getting a divorce over.
Most people can never get down to the reality of the situation. They think what type of person am I if I let my spouse have sex with other people? They don't think about it in a logical way. They see it from a standpoint of how society will look at them. You can still love someone and not have sex with them and you can have sex with someone and not love them. Sex is just a physical need that most people feel needs to be satisfied.
Can you take intimacy out of the equation is the problem.
A bad sex life is all perspective. Is it that all intimacy in the relationship is lost or your spouse isn't into the types of stuff you fantasize about?
The key is communication. If you're unhappy, you need to be able to talk with your spouse and determine if you're BOTH willing to work towards meeting each other's needs. Personally, if my husband came to me and said he was thinking about stepping out on our marriage because he wasn't happy with the sex, I'd either step up my game or tell him he can file for divorce. It may seem like getting some on the side is the answer but so much baggage & resentment comes along with it that which only leads to other problems in the marriage. I'm a firm believer in trying to work through all marital situations but if both people aren't committed there's no reason why you must live unhappily because it's easier.
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30+ years and going strong!4
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That's awesome Ric!
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As some of the others have expressed on here I believe a less-than-satisfactory sex life is not reason in and of itself to divorce but more of an indication of something more critical that is missing. Like @rps67 I have to have intimacy and the knowledge that I am significant to someone in a way that connects us and gives us strength to ride out the valleys of life together. If that is missing, I don't care what the sex is like because I would still be discontent in the relationship.
Marriage certainly is a challenge as is the simple act of living with someone and enduring their habits and idiosyncrasies but when there are cracks in the foundation of a relationship, it often exhibits itself in disagreements about finances, in-laws or the myriad other aspects of a marriage. It takes real commitment and love to communicate enough to identify the root cause and then take steps to either change or accept the other person as they are. Those are the only two choices.
I have seen and known countless people who decided to "stick it out" regardless of how dead their relationship was and I swore I would never be that person. To me, that is not living. I have also known other couples who may fuss and have their battles but it is their way of working out the problem and although it may not always be pretty to observe it beats living as roommates in my opinion.4 -
Are there any spouses in here that own their own business with the spouses or work for the same company? How does that work out? When do you separate work from non-work?0
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I am glad that my husband is patient with me and kind and caring in my challenging moments. Some people I see speak negative about their former partners because it seems they got angry at them for being human and never took the time to really understand what they may have been through in their life that led to their troubling thoughts and feelings. But, when a person is not intolerant to that then it allows each person to face things and grow on their own and together with support. Sometimes in life we need support, and someone reasonable that can see us for who we are and help us see ourselves in a more accurate way as well. It can be difficult to break old mental patterns that we were taught from a very young age. It takes a lifetime of continued work. Also my husband has always said how he is so happy the way that I understand him. So, I think a big positive for us is the way we see eachother, understand eachother, listen, provide support, and help eachother to see ourselves the way we see eachother. Deep intimacy. And not being afraid of that. And good sex happens with intimacy. Not being afraid to be vulnerable to another person.4
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Hey all, I've been MIA lately. It's been crazy hell (preparing for legislature season) at work and I don't have the time to even think, as of late. MFP put me at page like 42, as that's where I left off, so I only skimmed the other pages and gathered a few tidbits of information; Cutaway, I'm sending you a big hug at the moment. My sister just went through that ~ 6 months ago; when they went in to clean her out, they found 2 embryos (twins). I have a secret, as well, my sister is pregnant again, so I'm constantly crossing my toes/fingers for her. I don't have any of my own, but hope to start soon; I just have an upcoming surgery that I need to get through and then I can start trying.
Again, hugs Cutaway.3 -
Guns_N_Buns wrote: »Hey all, I've been MIA lately. It's been crazy hell (preparing for legislature season) at work and I don't have the time to even think, as of late. MFP put me at page like 42, as that's where I left off, so I only skimmed the other pages and gathered a few tidbits of information; Cutaway, I'm sending you a big hug at the moment. My sister just went through that ~ 6 months ago; when they went in to clean her out, they found 2 embryos (twins). I have a secret, as well, my sister is pregnant again, so I'm constantly crossing my toes/fingers for her. I don't have any of my own, but hope to start soon; I just have an upcoming surgery that I need to get through and then I can start trying.
Again, hugs Cutaway.
Welcome back....missed your wit.1 -
DarleneReid577 wrote: »Guns_N_Buns wrote: »Hey all, I've been MIA lately. It's been crazy hell (preparing for legislature season) at work and I don't have the time to even think, as of late. MFP put me at page like 42, as that's where I left off, so I only skimmed the other pages and gathered a few tidbits of information; Cutaway, I'm sending you a big hug at the moment. My sister just went through that ~ 6 months ago; when they went in to clean her out, they found 2 embryos (twins). I have a secret, as well, my sister is pregnant again, so I'm constantly crossing my toes/fingers for her. I don't have any of my own, but hope to start soon; I just have an upcoming surgery that I need to get through and then I can start trying.
Again, hugs Cutaway.
Welcome back....missed your wit.
I second that! And best of luck starting a family once you are beyond surgery. It is one of the greatest blessings of life.2 -
Another question before I wrap up my day at work....can you love your spouse out of depression? Meaning, can you compliment a person until they begin to believe it's true? Can you constantly extend an invitation for events and be refused every time until he/she finally says yes? Can you help a person with addictive behaviors that doesn't want to be helped? Is it possible?
You sound like a wonderful person - sadly, the answer is no. Depression is a "brain wiring" issue, and there are drugs that can help. Your best efforts to lift the other person simply can't overcome the "frame" that their brain paints for them. Self-medicating efforts usually don't work, either.
Now, all that being said - with young families, what might look like depression *could be* sheer exhaustion. You'll have to decide that for yourself.
And in answer to your earlier question - sometimes married life goes though drudge-y periods, and that's OK. Having a steady person to share life's burdens is truly a blessing; but it never hurts to stop and appreciate that and TELL THE OTHER PERSON, is a good idea ;-)5 -
Are there any spouses in here that own their own business with the spouses or work for the same company? How does that work out? When do you separate work from non-work?
And I'm back.... yes, my husband and I own a business. I won't deny that there are times when we forget each other due to the details of running the business. The trick is to get away from time to time - and LEAVE WORK BEHIND. We have an advantage now - we're old. We close our business through the winter, and we become Snowbirds and have 4 months of "together time". But before that, we'd take road trips just sightseeing for a week or so...5 -
Another question before I wrap up my day at work....can you love your spouse out of depression? Meaning, can you compliment a person until they begin to believe it's true? Can you constantly extend an invitation for events and be refused every time until he/she finally says yes? Can you help a person with addictive behaviors that doesn't want to be helped? Is it possible?
I agree with others that treatment is needed. For some people that's medication. But, some people don't respond well to meds. Either way it's important to get her the right type of therapy that could help her to work through the issues, find healthier coping mechanisms, learn self care, build a "tool box", an outlet for her emotions and difficulties, support for addiction. Maybe group therapy. Maybe also a 12 step program or some other addiction treatment program. Whatever she responds best to. Wish I had better advice. Addiction is very difficult to deal with. Especially with drugs that are physically addictive and alcoholism. So treatment does depend on to what degree she is experiencing these issues and what she needs for help to learn healthier coping skills. The one thing I know is that they won't stop the addiction until they can admit and acknowledge that they have an addiction. Denial with addiction is powerful. I have experienced it in my family of origin. I hope you two get help. You are a good husband wanting to help her and loving her like you do. Sorry you are both going through this.2 -
Are there any spouses in here that own their own business with the spouses or work for the same company? How does that work out? When do you separate work from non-work?
My husband and I met at work and still work together. It's great 85% of the time. We make a great team, it's nice to be able to commute and eat lunch together, it's nice to be able to get a hug in the middle of the day when I need it, and he kills bugs for me if I get one in my office. We usually get in the car and have the ride from work to the gym to keep talking work, and then we're done with it for the day and go about our evenings like normal married people.
Then there's the other 15% of the time where I really, really, really wish he was somewhere else. Something bad (but small!) happens, he gets ranty and emotional, and he walks a fine line between venting to me and taking his frustration out on me. He invades my office when I'm trying to get things done, and eventually I have to be like GTFO I'm not your therapist. It's hard to enforce boundaries at work - I have to be an employee first and a wife second. Bad days make him spiral, and even if we're not talking about work at home, he goes on about all the other things that are wrong. Some of the problem is how we're fundamentally different in handling being upset - he gets loud and blustery, I internalize and don't want to talk. I don't cope well with his avalanche of unhappiness.
I'm not perfect either - I'm consistently slow and late in the mornings, and while we've never gotten in trouble for it, he feels like he's being dad telling me to get out of bed and get ready. If we didn't work together, he could just leave.
Our company is going through some turbulence right now, and looking elsewhere has crossed both of our minds. I really hate the thought of not working with him because it's so good most of the time, but I do sometimes wonder if my work-related stress would go down a little if he wasn't around making mountains out of molehills.4 -
I was married at 22 and marrying and having kids young helped me to mature and grow in ways I sorely needed. Knowing my personality I'm afraid that if I'd waited until I was much older I'd have developed a stubborn selfishness Which would have made marriage much harder. Instead we 'grew up ' together and formed our identities together and the fact that we literally can't imagine living without each other helps a lot when things get rocky.
Having been the spouse suffering from depression I can attest that it's not something you can 'love' your spouse out of. Depression is really good at robbing a person of her self worth so even if you tell her she's wonderful and that you love her dearly she might struggle to believe it's true. There was a point in my own battle where despite all my family's efforts to make me feel loved I still felt that the kindest thing I could do for them was to leave this world so they could move on and find someone who wasn't so broken. It's not your job to make her happy (I know it made my husband miserable when he failed to do so) but you can support her when she's down, and help her to find the professional help she needs. And just remember that if she doesn't respond appropriately to your professions of love, You're not doing it wrong, It's just that the depression speaks louder sometimes.6 -
Well said Serenity. One of the most liberating feelings I ever experienced was learning from our councilor that it was not my job to make my wife's anxiety go away.2
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Soooooo, can we be married and flirty....or is this the wrong meeting?6
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Hmmm . What is this flirting that you speak of??1
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RainaProske wrote: »NewMrsCarlson wrote: »Married chickadee right here
How long have you been married now, Chickadee?
Ah, I remember well the first days!
I have been married 3 years as of this last June 3 -
kevinf2380 wrote: »I agree with Meredith. Marriage is hard and takes work from both parties. I've been married 24 years.
I also can relate to some of the less happy posters here but don't want to get into details in a public forum.
Marriage takes work but if both parties are not working at it sometimes a better course of action is to make a change rather than staying in a bad situation where no one is happy and the kids do not learn what a loving relationship looks like.
Do you think a bad sex life is worthy of getting a divorce? I don't really see how that would justify going through the emotional and financial devastation of divorce. Not to mention what it does to kids. I can see why people think it's easier to stay in the marriage but find something on the side.
What I'm sure no one talks about openly but I'm sure happens is more open relationships. Where a wife or husband openly admits they no longer have the sex drive they did before and allows their spouse to fill their desires elsewhere. If all other aspects of the marriage are satisfied except for sex I don't see why it's worth getting a divorce over.
Most people can never get down to the reality of the situation. They think what type of person am I if I let my spouse have sex with other people? They don't think about it in a logical way. They see it from a standpoint of how society will look at them. You can still love someone and not have sex with them and you can have sex with someone and not love them. Sex is just a physical need that most people feel needs to be satisfied.
Can you take intimacy out of the equation is the problem.
I think that if having an open relationship was mutual and worked then go for it. Like you said, most partners aren't going to go for that. And maybe sometimes sex is just sex. But, if the sex issues are indicative of a different problem someone somewhere might develop stronger feelings within a side relationship or get hurt in unintended ways (including the kids). I think it's good that you are honestly exploring these thoughts and feelings, and talking it through. And also good to think about it logically rather than what society would think. Because it's your life. And thanks for sharing with us.
If a couple can't have sex because of medical issues that's a different topic.
But, if everything is "normal" and healthy then not being on the same page sexually does matter, imo. It's something to explore and think about. Like why are you staying together? Other than for the kids or for financial reasons. Because if there are not other strong reasons then it's worth thinking about. Not all relationships are meant to last. That's why there is divorce. It's ok to get divorced if a relationship has run it's course. Try to work it out. But, you don't have to stay if you aren't happy. The kids will survive. If you can do it peacefully (I know that's rare) some people make it work just living on the same street. Not so bad for the kids that way. But, I don't know what advice to give. I haven't been in this situation. And in my marriage I do need sexual excitement, so I explore new things all the time with my partner, and talk about it honestly with my partner. And I keep up with my fitness and appearance and lingerie and outfits.3
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