low carb Does work!!!!
Replies
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See I don't get this divide. I count calories AND carbs because I'm an emotional eater. I will being eating LCHF for life and probably calorie counting as well. I don't see why people think it's always one or the other, both are equally important for people like me with insulin resistance, PCOS and emotional attachment to food.2
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »See I don't get this divide. I count calories AND carbs because I'm an emotional eater. I will being eating LCHF for life and probably calorie counting as well. I don't see why people think it's always one or the other, both are equally important for people like me with insulin resistance, PCOS and emotional attachment to food.
It is because there are some people lose weight really well on high carb. A study I read about this morning reported that people who are insulin sensitive lose 2 times faster on high carb while those who are insulin resistant lose 2 times faster on low carb. People on MFP naturally tout what works for them because that is what they get results from. Plenty of people lose weight eating high carbs.4 -
... I think it's important for people to discover what works for them and their lifestyle . I don't subscribe to any particular diet and love my carbs. Thanfully it hasn't been an issue for my weightloss.
Yes, it is important to discover what works. I also love carbs but have to limit them for myself. It is great that you can eat them with no issues. I was like that about 15 years ago but got insulin resistance. Now I have to pay attention to limiting carbs.
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tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »75poundstogo wrote: »I haven't read all the post so apologies if this is a bit redundant.
I spent the past 2-3 years following a low carb approach. Paleo, Primal, High Fat Low Carb, Keto etc All diets that focus on lowering carbs. When I was sticking to it, I'd typically shoot for what Mark Sisson recommends - the sweet spot 50-75 carbs per day. I learned to build nutritious meals. I enjoy Paleo food. I enjoyed not having to count calories.
The problem...I could never stick with it more than 30 days, or maybe 10-15 pound weightloss.
I spent the past 2-3 years doing low carb on and off. Essentially this was yo yo dieting.
You know what? The overall result (no matter what yo yo diet)? I reached my highest weight in my life this past July 2016 - 215 pounds.
Now, I've also gone though yo yo workouts. Crossfit, HIIT work outs, walking...I'd do good for 4 months and then life throws you a curve ball and I was back to stress eating and sedentary behaviors.
Simply, for me, low carb is not sustainable.
Pros:
- eat until full - now calorie counting
- when in a keto state you can go a long time without eating
- fat and protein taste good, so in general meals taste good/OK
Cons:
- unless you are militantly consistent and/or choose to make this your forever way of eating, low carb is difficult to sustain long term.
- eating only protein and plant products can become mind-numbingly boring. That steak and asparagus tasted great on week one, but week 8? It's hard to stomach or psychologically damaging to limit that much
- eating high fat is great, but if you do want to sneak in the occasional carb (or worse you couple high fat with high carb) = you are basically eating the standard american diet which will make you fat
- It is psychologically damaging to eat restrictively - to cut out an entire food group. When I did that I would OBSESSIVELY count my compliant days...and enviably fall off track
I certainly respect your experience. LCHF doesn't work out great for everyone. I guess I'm one of the "militantly consistent people" (lol, that phrase made me chuckle). I'd just point out that no matter what you choose to do, you need to be "militantly consistent" if you want to keep the weight off, and that would include calorie counting (look at how many "OMG!!!eleventy111!!! I'm going on vacation and won't be able to accurately count whatdoIdo????" posts there are).
As for meat and plants being mind-numbingly boring? I think that's totally an individual thing. I've been eating this way (with militant consistency, lol) for three years. Not bored yet. Steak is great, but expensive, so it's a rare treat, but there are virtually thousands of meat, dairy, and veggie combos out there, and a myriad of spices and preparation methods. You are limited only by your imagination (and perhaps cooking skills).
I do "sneak in" the occasional high carb treat (so much for militant consistency). It is truly occasional tho, and I get right back to low carb once my "cheat" is over, so no those odd special occasions have not hindered my weight loss, or made maintenance difficult. You do have to be honest with yourself and make sure that those occasional treats don't become daily habits, but I have cake on my family members' b-days, and traditional holiday meals... I just don't eat that way all the time. Heck, even the "standard American diet" won't make you fat, unless you are in a calorie surplus (isn't that the whole idea behind calorie counting??).
I don't think it's psychologically damaging to restrict food groups. At least not any more than it's psychologically damaging to restrict calories. Can some people become obsessive? Sure. But that's true with weighing and measuring food too.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with LC, and that you found it didn't work for you. I'm glad you've found something that you feel you can stick with. That's really all any of us can hope for - to find something that we like, and that gives us the results we are looking for! Good luck!
I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.
there are lots here who move from calorie counting using a scale to mindful eating and maintain their weight quite beautifully.
I think if you can find something that works for you great...but don't diss the other ways either which is what happens...
What did I "diss" exactly? Was it when I said you have to find what works for you?
I chuckled at "militantly consistent" because it seems a redundancy. You are either consistent, or you aren't. The poster I was responding to was insisting that LCHF somehow requires a level of consistency that other diets don't require. Not so. If you want to lose wieght, you need to be consistent in your approach, regardless of what that approach may be. Long term calorie counting does teach you what a "normal" portion looks like, so you may be able to stop weighing/measuring after a while, just as long term LCHF diets teach you which foods you can eat to satiety, and which ones you have to limit, so you can stop counting carbs after a while (I haven't logged in a very long time). If, as a calorie counter, you stop paying mind to portions, you will start to regain (portion creep); low carb dieters who stop being so mindful get a similar situation (carb creep). Either way, whatever changes you make (restricting carbs, restricting calroreis) if you aren't "militantly consistant", and let your old habits (the ones that got you fat in the first place) creep back in, you will regain. Maintenance does require consistency.
Edited for clarity
It was more this right here that was dissing (over the top)
mindful eating and calorie counting don't require militant consistency to maintain weight...lots of proof here...
for example I am not a militant when it comes to being consistent with staying at maintenance I eat over and under frequently.
Mindful eaters eat until they are satisfied...that is not a consistent amount...
I found low carb...a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train...and it was easy for me to slip as I was never totally satisfied with my meals...always felt empty.
Not sure what was "over the top" about what I wrote... I certainly respect your experience. I don't need to be militant when it comes to LCHF, but I did need to be with calorie counting. On LC I eat to satiety, no calorie counting, or even carb counting once I got a handle on it. I can go a bit under my limit on some days, and a bit over on others p, and it all works out.
What's funny is that your least sentance describes my experience with calorie counting pretty much perfectly - a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train. And just as you did on LC, I found it easy to slip while calorie counting, as I was never satisfied with my meals....always felt empty. On LC I can have a high carb "cheat" (I hate calling it that), know that I'll gain a couple of lbs of water over night, get right back on track, and the water will go as quickly as it came on. With calorie counting I'd have a higher cal day, put on a couple lbs over night, and it would be weeks before I'd get back to where I was. I found that very demoralizing.
I think if you think you feel you need to be "militant", you are on the wrong diet for you. But you do need to be consistent. Perhaps not with amount (calories or carbs) every single day, but with approach over time. If you focus on calories/portions, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. If you focus on carbs, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. Even if you aren't weighing/measuring/counting anymore. For some people, LC will be too difficult. For others calorie counting will be too difficult.
I find the bolded very interesting...mainly because the gain from both "slips" is from the same thing....extra water/glycogen from probably carbs or sodium....because logically you know that one high calorie day does not mean a couple pounds of weight gain....doesn't happen like that...
but I agree...if you feel you have to be militant you are doing it wrong....1 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »75poundstogo wrote: »I haven't read all the post so apologies if this is a bit redundant.
I spent the past 2-3 years following a low carb approach. Paleo, Primal, High Fat Low Carb, Keto etc All diets that focus on lowering carbs. When I was sticking to it, I'd typically shoot for what Mark Sisson recommends - the sweet spot 50-75 carbs per day. I learned to build nutritious meals. I enjoy Paleo food. I enjoyed not having to count calories.
The problem...I could never stick with it more than 30 days, or maybe 10-15 pound weightloss.
I spent the past 2-3 years doing low carb on and off. Essentially this was yo yo dieting.
You know what? The overall result (no matter what yo yo diet)? I reached my highest weight in my life this past July 2016 - 215 pounds.
Now, I've also gone though yo yo workouts. Crossfit, HIIT work outs, walking...I'd do good for 4 months and then life throws you a curve ball and I was back to stress eating and sedentary behaviors.
Simply, for me, low carb is not sustainable.
Pros:
- eat until full - now calorie counting
- when in a keto state you can go a long time without eating
- fat and protein taste good, so in general meals taste good/OK
Cons:
- unless you are militantly consistent and/or choose to make this your forever way of eating, low carb is difficult to sustain long term.
- eating only protein and plant products can become mind-numbingly boring. That steak and asparagus tasted great on week one, but week 8? It's hard to stomach or psychologically damaging to limit that much
- eating high fat is great, but if you do want to sneak in the occasional carb (or worse you couple high fat with high carb) = you are basically eating the standard american diet which will make you fat
- It is psychologically damaging to eat restrictively - to cut out an entire food group. When I did that I would OBSESSIVELY count my compliant days...and enviably fall off track
I certainly respect your experience. LCHF doesn't work out great for everyone. I guess I'm one of the "militantly consistent people" (lol, that phrase made me chuckle). I'd just point out that no matter what you choose to do, you need to be "militantly consistent" if you want to keep the weight off, and that would include calorie counting (look at how many "OMG!!!eleventy111!!! I'm going on vacation and won't be able to accurately count whatdoIdo????" posts there are).
As for meat and plants being mind-numbingly boring? I think that's totally an individual thing. I've been eating this way (with militant consistency, lol) for three years. Not bored yet. Steak is great, but expensive, so it's a rare treat, but there are virtually thousands of meat, dairy, and veggie combos out there, and a myriad of spices and preparation methods. You are limited only by your imagination (and perhaps cooking skills).
I do "sneak in" the occasional high carb treat (so much for militant consistency). It is truly occasional tho, and I get right back to low carb once my "cheat" is over, so no those odd special occasions have not hindered my weight loss, or made maintenance difficult. You do have to be honest with yourself and make sure that those occasional treats don't become daily habits, but I have cake on my family members' b-days, and traditional holiday meals... I just don't eat that way all the time. Heck, even the "standard American diet" won't make you fat, unless you are in a calorie surplus (isn't that the whole idea behind calorie counting??).
I don't think it's psychologically damaging to restrict food groups. At least not any more than it's psychologically damaging to restrict calories. Can some people become obsessive? Sure. But that's true with weighing and measuring food too.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with LC, and that you found it didn't work for you. I'm glad you've found something that you feel you can stick with. That's really all any of us can hope for - to find something that we like, and that gives us the results we are looking for! Good luck!
I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.
there are lots here who move from calorie counting using a scale to mindful eating and maintain their weight quite beautifully.
I think if you can find something that works for you great...but don't diss the other ways either which is what happens...
What did I "diss" exactly? Was it when I said you have to find what works for you?
I chuckled at "militantly consistent" because it seems a redundancy. You are either consistent, or you aren't. The poster I was responding to was insisting that LCHF somehow requires a level of consistency that other diets don't require. Not so. If you want to lose wieght, you need to be consistent in your approach, regardless of what that approach may be. Long term calorie counting does teach you what a "normal" portion looks like, so you may be able to stop weighing/measuring after a while, just as long term LCHF diets teach you which foods you can eat to satiety, and which ones you have to limit, so you can stop counting carbs after a while (I haven't logged in a very long time). If, as a calorie counter, you stop paying mind to portions, you will start to regain (portion creep); low carb dieters who stop being so mindful get a similar situation (carb creep). Either way, whatever changes you make (restricting carbs, restricting calroreis) if you aren't "militantly consistant", and let your old habits (the ones that got you fat in the first place) creep back in, you will regain. Maintenance does require consistency.
Edited for clarity
It was more this right here that was dissing (over the top)
mindful eating and calorie counting don't require militant consistency to maintain weight...lots of proof here...
for example I am not a militant when it comes to being consistent with staying at maintenance I eat over and under frequently.
Mindful eaters eat until they are satisfied...that is not a consistent amount...
I found low carb...a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train...and it was easy for me to slip as I was never totally satisfied with my meals...always felt empty.
Not sure what was "over the top" about what I wrote... I certainly respect your experience. I don't need to be militant when it comes to LCHF, but I did need to be with calorie counting. On LC I eat to satiety, no calorie counting, or even carb counting once I got a handle on it. I can go a bit under my limit on some days, and a bit over on others p, and it all works out.
What's funny is that your least sentance describes my experience with calorie counting pretty much perfectly - a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train. And just as you did on LC, I found it easy to slip while calorie counting, as I was never satisfied with my meals....always felt empty. On LC I can have a high carb "cheat" (I hate calling it that), know that I'll gain a couple of lbs of water over night, get right back on track, and the water will go as quickly as it came on. With calorie counting I'd have a higher cal day, put on a couple lbs over night, and it would be weeks before I'd get back to where I was. I found that very demoralizing.
I think if you think you feel you need to be "militant", you are on the wrong diet for you. But you do need to be consistent. Perhaps not with amount (calories or carbs) every single day, but with approach over time. If you focus on calories/portions, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. If you focus on carbs, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. Even if you aren't weighing/measuring/counting anymore. For some people, LC will be too difficult. For others calorie counting will be too difficult.
I find the bolded very interesting...mainly because the gain from both "slips" is from the same thing....extra water/glycogen from probably carbs or sodium....because logically you know that one high calorie day does not mean a couple pounds of weight gain....doesn't happen like that...
but I agree...if you feel you have to be militant you are doing it wrong....
Logically I know that that couple of lbs should come off as quickly as it came on, but my experience never worked out that way with calorie control. I don't know why it is. Maybe I retained more water in general on higher carb and so flushing out the "extra" took longer. I do know that I couldn't run as large of a deficit on calorie counting as I can on low carb (due to satiety factors). Also, when I have a "cheat" and go over on carbs, I'm not necessarily going over on calories - the gain is entirely water weight. When I'd have a "cheat" and go over on calories, well, some of that gain was likely to be fat as well as water. That may be why I saw such a big difference between the two methods. I'm also very intrigued by what @DebSozo mentioned above - the difference for me in the ease and speed of loss on the two different styles was quite dramatic. I know that I am high risk for IR (never formally diagnosed, as I said, but given my family history and personally history, I'm pretty sure that I am). I'd love to see the study mentioned. It would go a long way to explain my experiences. Not to mention why so many of us have such dramatically different takes on the two methods
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The most astounding part for me is that there is not a single long term study that shows eat less/move more results in weight loss for any extended period of time. The reasoning for why that is validated my own weight gain journey over my lifetime.
The thing is that there is ALSO not a single long-term study that shows that LCHF results in maintained, sustainable weight loss either.
The elephant in the room here is that what long-term studies have shown is that the vast majority of people who lose significant weight, no matter how they do it, wind up regaining. No matter how they lose it. So whatever you do, you have to plan on working that plan (or some equally successful FOR YOU plan) for the rest of your life.
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tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »75poundstogo wrote: »I haven't read all the post so apologies if this is a bit redundant.
I spent the past 2-3 years following a low carb approach. Paleo, Primal, High Fat Low Carb, Keto etc All diets that focus on lowering carbs. When I was sticking to it, I'd typically shoot for what Mark Sisson recommends - the sweet spot 50-75 carbs per day. I learned to build nutritious meals. I enjoy Paleo food. I enjoyed not having to count calories.
The problem...I could never stick with it more than 30 days, or maybe 10-15 pound weightloss.
I spent the past 2-3 years doing low carb on and off. Essentially this was yo yo dieting.
You know what? The overall result (no matter what yo yo diet)? I reached my highest weight in my life this past July 2016 - 215 pounds.
Now, I've also gone though yo yo workouts. Crossfit, HIIT work outs, walking...I'd do good for 4 months and then life throws you a curve ball and I was back to stress eating and sedentary behaviors.
Simply, for me, low carb is not sustainable.
Pros:
- eat until full - now calorie counting
- when in a keto state you can go a long time without eating
- fat and protein taste good, so in general meals taste good/OK
Cons:
- unless you are militantly consistent and/or choose to make this your forever way of eating, low carb is difficult to sustain long term.
- eating only protein and plant products can become mind-numbingly boring. That steak and asparagus tasted great on week one, but week 8? It's hard to stomach or psychologically damaging to limit that much
- eating high fat is great, but if you do want to sneak in the occasional carb (or worse you couple high fat with high carb) = you are basically eating the standard american diet which will make you fat
- It is psychologically damaging to eat restrictively - to cut out an entire food group. When I did that I would OBSESSIVELY count my compliant days...and enviably fall off track
I certainly respect your experience. LCHF doesn't work out great for everyone. I guess I'm one of the "militantly consistent people" (lol, that phrase made me chuckle). I'd just point out that no matter what you choose to do, you need to be "militantly consistent" if you want to keep the weight off, and that would include calorie counting (look at how many "OMG!!!eleventy111!!! I'm going on vacation and won't be able to accurately count whatdoIdo????" posts there are).
As for meat and plants being mind-numbingly boring? I think that's totally an individual thing. I've been eating this way (with militant consistency, lol) for three years. Not bored yet. Steak is great, but expensive, so it's a rare treat, but there are virtually thousands of meat, dairy, and veggie combos out there, and a myriad of spices and preparation methods. You are limited only by your imagination (and perhaps cooking skills).
I do "sneak in" the occasional high carb treat (so much for militant consistency). It is truly occasional tho, and I get right back to low carb once my "cheat" is over, so no those odd special occasions have not hindered my weight loss, or made maintenance difficult. You do have to be honest with yourself and make sure that those occasional treats don't become daily habits, but I have cake on my family members' b-days, and traditional holiday meals... I just don't eat that way all the time. Heck, even the "standard American diet" won't make you fat, unless you are in a calorie surplus (isn't that the whole idea behind calorie counting??).
I don't think it's psychologically damaging to restrict food groups. At least not any more than it's psychologically damaging to restrict calories. Can some people become obsessive? Sure. But that's true with weighing and measuring food too.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with LC, and that you found it didn't work for you. I'm glad you've found something that you feel you can stick with. That's really all any of us can hope for - to find something that we like, and that gives us the results we are looking for! Good luck!
I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.
there are lots here who move from calorie counting using a scale to mindful eating and maintain their weight quite beautifully.
I think if you can find something that works for you great...but don't diss the other ways either which is what happens...
What did I "diss" exactly? Was it when I said you have to find what works for you?
I chuckled at "militantly consistent" because it seems a redundancy. You are either consistent, or you aren't. The poster I was responding to was insisting that LCHF somehow requires a level of consistency that other diets don't require. Not so. If you want to lose wieght, you need to be consistent in your approach, regardless of what that approach may be. Long term calorie counting does teach you what a "normal" portion looks like, so you may be able to stop weighing/measuring after a while, just as long term LCHF diets teach you which foods you can eat to satiety, and which ones you have to limit, so you can stop counting carbs after a while (I haven't logged in a very long time). If, as a calorie counter, you stop paying mind to portions, you will start to regain (portion creep); low carb dieters who stop being so mindful get a similar situation (carb creep). Either way, whatever changes you make (restricting carbs, restricting calroreis) if you aren't "militantly consistant", and let your old habits (the ones that got you fat in the first place) creep back in, you will regain. Maintenance does require consistency.
Edited for clarity
It was more this right here that was dissing (over the top)
mindful eating and calorie counting don't require militant consistency to maintain weight...lots of proof here...
for example I am not a militant when it comes to being consistent with staying at maintenance I eat over and under frequently.
Mindful eaters eat until they are satisfied...that is not a consistent amount...
I found low carb...a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train...and it was easy for me to slip as I was never totally satisfied with my meals...always felt empty.
Not sure what was "over the top" about what I wrote... I certainly respect your experience. I don't need to be militant when it comes to LCHF, but I did need to be with calorie counting. On LC I eat to satiety, no calorie counting, or even carb counting once I got a handle on it. I can go a bit under my limit on some days, and a bit over on others p, and it all works out.
What's funny is that your least sentance describes my experience with calorie counting pretty much perfectly - a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train. And just as you did on LC, I found it easy to slip while calorie counting, as I was never satisfied with my meals....always felt empty. On LC I can have a high carb "cheat" (I hate calling it that), know that I'll gain a couple of lbs of water over night, get right back on track, and the water will go as quickly as it came on. With calorie counting I'd have a higher cal day, put on a couple lbs over night, and it would be weeks before I'd get back to where I was. I found that very demoralizing.
I think if you think you feel you need to be "militant", you are on the wrong diet for you. But you do need to be consistent. Perhaps not with amount (calories or carbs) every single day, but with approach over time. If you focus on calories/portions, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. If you focus on carbs, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. Even if you aren't weighing/measuring/counting anymore. For some people, LC will be too difficult. For others calorie counting will be too difficult.
I find the bolded very interesting...mainly because the gain from both "slips" is from the same thing....extra water/glycogen from probably carbs or sodium....because logically you know that one high calorie day does not mean a couple pounds of weight gain....doesn't happen like that...
but I agree...if you feel you have to be militant you are doing it wrong....
Logically I know that that couple of lbs should come off as quickly as it came on, but my experience never worked out that way with calorie control. I don't know why it is. Maybe I retained more water in general on higher carb and so flushing out the "extra" took longer. I do know that I couldn't run as large of a deficit on calorie counting as I can on low carb (due to satiety factors). Also, when I have a "cheat" and go over on carbs, I'm not necessarily going over on calories - the gain is entirely water weight. When I'd have a "cheat" and go over on calories, well, some of that gain was likely to be fat as well as water. That may be why I saw such a big difference between the two methods. I'm also very intrigued by what @DebSozo mentioned above - the difference for me in the ease and speed of loss on the two different styles was quite dramatic. I know that I am high risk for IR (never formally diagnosed, as I said, but given my family history and personally history, I'm pretty sure that I am). I'd love to see the study mentioned. It would go a long way to explain my experiences. Not to mention why so many of us have such dramatically different takes on the two methods
Weight loss is such a mental game that I could see how changing your diet to find a way that messes with your mind less (like faster recovery from water weight gain) could lead to much better adherence.
In fact, I don't know how much low carb really benefits people health at all beyond mentality. But being able to see improvements in things like cravings and water weight swings could easily lead to better adherence, lead to longer period of weight loss, and therefore improved health.
And since it is a mind game, it doesn't work for everyone (nor are the benefits necessary for success for a lot of people).1 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »75poundstogo wrote: »I haven't read all the post so apologies if this is a bit redundant.
I spent the past 2-3 years following a low carb approach. Paleo, Primal, High Fat Low Carb, Keto etc All diets that focus on lowering carbs. When I was sticking to it, I'd typically shoot for what Mark Sisson recommends - the sweet spot 50-75 carbs per day. I learned to build nutritious meals. I enjoy Paleo food. I enjoyed not having to count calories.
The problem...I could never stick with it more than 30 days, or maybe 10-15 pound weightloss.
I spent the past 2-3 years doing low carb on and off. Essentially this was yo yo dieting.
You know what? The overall result (no matter what yo yo diet)? I reached my highest weight in my life this past July 2016 - 215 pounds.
Now, I've also gone though yo yo workouts. Crossfit, HIIT work outs, walking...I'd do good for 4 months and then life throws you a curve ball and I was back to stress eating and sedentary behaviors.
Simply, for me, low carb is not sustainable.
Pros:
- eat until full - now calorie counting
- when in a keto state you can go a long time without eating
- fat and protein taste good, so in general meals taste good/OK
Cons:
- unless you are militantly consistent and/or choose to make this your forever way of eating, low carb is difficult to sustain long term.
- eating only protein and plant products can become mind-numbingly boring. That steak and asparagus tasted great on week one, but week 8? It's hard to stomach or psychologically damaging to limit that much
- eating high fat is great, but if you do want to sneak in the occasional carb (or worse you couple high fat with high carb) = you are basically eating the standard american diet which will make you fat
- It is psychologically damaging to eat restrictively - to cut out an entire food group. When I did that I would OBSESSIVELY count my compliant days...and enviably fall off track
I certainly respect your experience. LCHF doesn't work out great for everyone. I guess I'm one of the "militantly consistent people" (lol, that phrase made me chuckle). I'd just point out that no matter what you choose to do, you need to be "militantly consistent" if you want to keep the weight off, and that would include calorie counting (look at how many "OMG!!!eleventy111!!! I'm going on vacation and won't be able to accurately count whatdoIdo????" posts there are).
As for meat and plants being mind-numbingly boring? I think that's totally an individual thing. I've been eating this way (with militant consistency, lol) for three years. Not bored yet. Steak is great, but expensive, so it's a rare treat, but there are virtually thousands of meat, dairy, and veggie combos out there, and a myriad of spices and preparation methods. You are limited only by your imagination (and perhaps cooking skills).
I do "sneak in" the occasional high carb treat (so much for militant consistency). It is truly occasional tho, and I get right back to low carb once my "cheat" is over, so no those odd special occasions have not hindered my weight loss, or made maintenance difficult. You do have to be honest with yourself and make sure that those occasional treats don't become daily habits, but I have cake on my family members' b-days, and traditional holiday meals... I just don't eat that way all the time. Heck, even the "standard American diet" won't make you fat, unless you are in a calorie surplus (isn't that the whole idea behind calorie counting??).
I don't think it's psychologically damaging to restrict food groups. At least not any more than it's psychologically damaging to restrict calories. Can some people become obsessive? Sure. But that's true with weighing and measuring food too.
I'm sorry you had a bad experience with LC, and that you found it didn't work for you. I'm glad you've found something that you feel you can stick with. That's really all any of us can hope for - to find something that we like, and that gives us the results we are looking for! Good luck!
I don't agree with the bolded statement at all.
there are lots here who move from calorie counting using a scale to mindful eating and maintain their weight quite beautifully.
I think if you can find something that works for you great...but don't diss the other ways either which is what happens...
What did I "diss" exactly? Was it when I said you have to find what works for you?
I chuckled at "militantly consistent" because it seems a redundancy. You are either consistent, or you aren't. The poster I was responding to was insisting that LCHF somehow requires a level of consistency that other diets don't require. Not so. If you want to lose wieght, you need to be consistent in your approach, regardless of what that approach may be. Long term calorie counting does teach you what a "normal" portion looks like, so you may be able to stop weighing/measuring after a while, just as long term LCHF diets teach you which foods you can eat to satiety, and which ones you have to limit, so you can stop counting carbs after a while (I haven't logged in a very long time). If, as a calorie counter, you stop paying mind to portions, you will start to regain (portion creep); low carb dieters who stop being so mindful get a similar situation (carb creep). Either way, whatever changes you make (restricting carbs, restricting calroreis) if you aren't "militantly consistant", and let your old habits (the ones that got you fat in the first place) creep back in, you will regain. Maintenance does require consistency.
Edited for clarity
It was more this right here that was dissing (over the top)
mindful eating and calorie counting don't require militant consistency to maintain weight...lots of proof here...
for example I am not a militant when it comes to being consistent with staying at maintenance I eat over and under frequently.
Mindful eaters eat until they are satisfied...that is not a consistent amount...
I found low carb...a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train...and it was easy for me to slip as I was never totally satisfied with my meals...always felt empty.
Not sure what was "over the top" about what I wrote... I certainly respect your experience. I don't need to be militant when it comes to LCHF, but I did need to be with calorie counting. On LC I eat to satiety, no calorie counting, or even carb counting once I got a handle on it. I can go a bit under my limit on some days, and a bit over on others p, and it all works out.
What's funny is that your least sentance describes my experience with calorie counting pretty much perfectly - a few slips and bam back on the weight gain train. And just as you did on LC, I found it easy to slip while calorie counting, as I was never satisfied with my meals....always felt empty. On LC I can have a high carb "cheat" (I hate calling it that), know that I'll gain a couple of lbs of water over night, get right back on track, and the water will go as quickly as it came on. With calorie counting I'd have a higher cal day, put on a couple lbs over night, and it would be weeks before I'd get back to where I was. I found that very demoralizing.
I think if you think you feel you need to be "militant", you are on the wrong diet for you. But you do need to be consistent. Perhaps not with amount (calories or carbs) every single day, but with approach over time. If you focus on calories/portions, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. If you focus on carbs, you need to stay mindful of that consistantly. Even if you aren't weighing/measuring/counting anymore. For some people, LC will be too difficult. For others calorie counting will be too difficult.
I find the bolded very interesting...mainly because the gain from both "slips" is from the same thing....extra water/glycogen from probably carbs or sodium....because logically you know that one high calorie day does not mean a couple pounds of weight gain....doesn't happen like that...
but I agree...if you feel you have to be militant you are doing it wrong....
Logically I know that that couple of lbs should come off as quickly as it came on, but my experience never worked out that way with calorie control. I don't know why it is. Maybe I retained more water in general on higher carb and so flushing out the "extra" took longer. I do know that I couldn't run as large of a deficit on calorie counting as I can on low carb (due to satiety factors). Also, when I have a "cheat" and go over on carbs, I'm not necessarily going over on calories - the gain is entirely water weight. When I'd have a "cheat" and go over on calories, well, some of that gain was likely to be fat as well as water. That may be why I saw such a big difference between the two methods. I'm also very intrigued by what @DebSozo mentioned above - the difference for me in the ease and speed of loss on the two different styles was quite dramatic. I know that I am high risk for IR (never formally diagnosed, as I said, but given my family history and personally history, I'm pretty sure that I am). I'd love to see the study mentioned. It would go a long way to explain my experiences. Not to mention why so many of us have such dramatically different takes on the two methods
Weight loss is such a mental game that I could see how changing your diet to find a way that messes with your mind less (like faster recovery from water weight gain) could lead to much better adherence.
In fact, I don't know how much low carb really benefits people health at all beyond mentality. But being able to see improvements in things like cravings and water weight swings could easily lead to better adherence, lead to longer period of weight loss, and therefore improved health.
And since it is a mind game, it doesn't work for everyone (nor are the benefits necessary for success for a lot of people).
ITA. So much if adherence is a mind game. Seeing faster recovery from "cheat meals" was something I noticed very early on and I can't tell you how happy it made me, lol. That was something I really struggled with using other methods. I know I'm not perfect and I know I'm going to indulge occasionally; finding out that those "cheats" didn't screw me up for weeks on end was something I was hugely thrilled about!
It probably also helps that I did see some immediate health benefits on low carb, before I'd even lost much weight. In the first six weeks my eczema disappeared (I'd had chronic, moderate to severe eczema on my hands for seven years and had tried everything to get rid of it, to no avail). I had only lost about 12 lbs at that point, but it was my first epiphany with this way of eating. I knew I couldn't go back to eating the foods that had apparently caused me so much pain and suffering for so many years, even if I never lost another single lb. The second epiphany came later, about a year or so in. I'd already lost all the weight I needed to lose at that point, but I realized that I hadn't had a hypoglycemic episode since I started eating this way. I've had hypos since childhood (earliest one I remember was when I was 8 years old; I was not an overweight kid, so I don't think my hypoglycemia is related to my weight). So for me it remains about more than my dress size or some number on the scale. I really do see some major health improvements, independent of weight loss. I'm pretty sure that helps me with adherence - I don't want the eczema (and the intense itching and red hot pain of a thousand suns) to come back, and I don't want to have to carry mints in my car, candies in my purse, and always keep juice on hand just in case I hit the floor because I haven't eaten in two hours (not to mention the fear that this will happen in front of my kids, or behind the wheel, or that I won't make it to my sugar source in time and maybe one time I won't wake up!). Those two factors keep me on plan, no matter how "tempting" carby foods may be.
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low carb is fine if you don't mind the potential for wasting of muscle tissue for aminos. Im in it to build up my body not tear down. Its all a matter of goals. If weight maintenance is the ONLY goal than just do Atkins. To each their own. I tried low carb. I lost mad weight fast. My strength tanked as well. Im simply too active for a low carb diet.1
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LCHF does not waste muscle like you think it does.low carb is fine if you don't mind the potential for wasting of muscle tissue for aminos. Im in it to build up my body not tear down. Its all a matter of goals. If weight maintenance is the ONLY goal than just do Atkins. To each their own. I tried low carb. I lost mad weight fast. My strength tanked as well. Im simply too active for a low carb diet.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/4 -
I'm 5'2", female, I eat less than 20g carbs a day and between 1800 and 2000 calories - most of my calories are from fat. According to the guidelines on here I shouldn't lose eating at this calorie level but I lost 50lbs in about 8 months. When I eat carbs and cut calories I tend to gain - and I'm hoping to go back to low carb permanently now after some bad emotional eating. I feel better and more energetic on low carb and once I'm at goal I can increase carbs to 100g ish and still maintain. Ymmv but that's been my experience. Low carb isn't easy to stick to but neither is low calorie, for me. I'm starving all the time on low calorie and rarely hungry at all on low carb. It's pretty much a miracle diet if you ask me.2
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To each their own but all people wishing to get into shape need is consistency, resistance, motivation, and some discipline. I consume around 300 to 400g complex carbs a day with reduced sugar and around 250 to 300g of protein. I've already lost a lot of body fat and now I'm trying to bulk up my lean body mass and currently my BF is at 7 percent.0
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I think the best thing about low carb is it makes you realize how many carbs you eat. I used to be eating 300 carbs everyday. I'm not on a low carb diet anymore but i do try to avoid bread and other heavy carb foods and I think its much healthier.1
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moonlights wrote: »I'm 5'2", female, I eat less than 20g carbs a day and between 1800 and 2000 calories - most of my calories are from fat. According to the guidelines on here I shouldn't lose eating at this calorie level but I lost 50lbs in about 8 months. When I eat carbs and cut calories I tend to gain - and I'm hoping to go back to low carb permanently now after some bad emotional eating. I feel better and more energetic on low carb and once I'm at goal I can increase carbs to 100g ish and still maintain. Ymmv but that's been my experience. Low carb isn't easy to stick to but neither is low calorie, for me. I'm starving all the time on low calorie and rarely hungry at all on low carb. It's pretty much a miracle diet if you ask me.
This is the sort of anecdotal claim of eating above ones maintenance level due to the miraculous low carb diet that is simply not helpful... If you are losing weight it is because you are consuming less calories than you burn. If eating a LC diet helps you create and stay in a calorie deficit, and you find it a sustainable way of eating, great, but it is still the calorie deficit that is causing the weight loss, not a miracle diet.
For what it's worth I'm also 5'2 and lost all of my weight eating b/w 1600-1900 cals and no specific focus/restriction on carbs or any other macro. I'm maintaining below my original goal weight with a TDEE of 2200. That too is above what the calculators here predicted but I'm not claiming anything miraculous about my diet (which if anyone is curious included plenty of carbs in the form of Greek yogurt, sandwiches, pasta, pizza, vegetables, cookies, wine and ice cream). I know it's nothing miraculous or special, it's that I became far more active than when I started with a sedentary lifestyle and now I'm able to eat more food and maintain a healthy weight than I did 40 lbs ago...5 -
moonlights wrote: »I'm 5'2", female, I eat less than 20g carbs a day and between 1800 and 2000 calories - most of my calories are from fat. According to the guidelines on here I shouldn't lose eating at this calorie level but I lost 50lbs in about 8 months. When I eat carbs and cut calories I tend to gain - and I'm hoping to go back to low carb permanently now after some bad emotional eating. I feel better and more energetic on low carb and once I'm at goal I can increase carbs to 100g ish and still maintain. Ymmv but that's been my experience. Low carb isn't easy to stick to but neither is low calorie, for me. I'm starving all the time on low calorie and rarely hungry at all on low carb. It's pretty much a miracle diet if you ask me.
I will raise you another anecdote. This morning I wasn't very hungry so I decided to just have a simple Greek yogurt sandwich. I spooned what I felt was a liberal amount on my bread since I wasn't doing breakfast and it came out at 38 grams.
Later this evening I was pretty hungry because I had a light lunch and have a nice dinner planned, so I decided to have a Greek yogurt sandwich again to hold me over until dinner. I spooned what I felt was a small amount (did not want too many calories for a snack) and it came out at 49 grams.
I'm fascinated how your satiety and perception of "ease" changes the way you perceive your portions and calories. Had I not seen the weight with my own eyes I could have sworn the amount I had this morning was at least twice the amount I had in the evening.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »moonlights wrote: »I'm 5'2", female, I eat less than 20g carbs a day and between 1800 and 2000 calories - most of my calories are from fat. According to the guidelines on here I shouldn't lose eating at this calorie level but I lost 50lbs in about 8 months. When I eat carbs and cut calories I tend to gain - and I'm hoping to go back to low carb permanently now after some bad emotional eating. I feel better and more energetic on low carb and once I'm at goal I can increase carbs to 100g ish and still maintain. Ymmv but that's been my experience. Low carb isn't easy to stick to but neither is low calorie, for me. I'm starving all the time on low calorie and rarely hungry at all on low carb. It's pretty much a miracle diet if you ask me.
This is the sort of anecdotal claim of eating above ones maintenance level due to the miraculous low carb diet that is simply not helpful... If you are losing weight it is because you are consuming less calories than you burn. If eating a LC diet helps you create and stay in a calorie deficit, and you find it a sustainable way of eating, great, but it is still the calorie deficit that is causing the weight loss, not a miracle diet.
What works for moonlights doesn't work for you, and vice-versa. I don't think it's helpful for you to essentially call moonlights out; your tone suggests you think she's either lying, or exaggerating. But look -- her diet works FOR HER. The diet you describe would be an absolute disaster for me, with all the bread and ice cream, pizza, cookies. I'd be 30 pounds heavier in about a year on that diet.
To each his or her own.
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There's no evidence that someone would maintain eating 1800 calories of one diet and gain more than .5 lb/week eating 1800 calories on some other diet, all else equal, as is claimed. It makes no sense at all.
Is it possible (even likely) that someone would have an easier time not going over 1800 on one diet vs. another? Of course, but the specifics of what makes it easier will vary from person to person. Point is it's not because eating low carb makes you magically able to eat way more calories on some other diet. There's no scientific support for that at all.3 -
This is the problem with low carb diets is..
Nothing wrong with the diet itself..
it is the absolute ridiculous crap people spout. I lose weight eating 1800 calories on low carb..but if I ate 1800 calories including regular carbs,, I'd gain weight.
So full of baloney..maybe that's why someone gains weight? They're full of baloney?
Low Carb is the ONLY thing that actually works...it's all scientific..it's a miracle..
More baloney...6 -
It's been said and I agree...the best diet is the one that works for you.1
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I think the best thing about low carb is it makes you realize how many carbs you eat. I used to be eating 300 carbs everyday. I'm not on a low carb diet anymore but i do try to avoid bread and other heavy carb foods and I think its much healthier.
I am not on a low carb eat habit either but bread is one thing I try to avoid since its mostly simple.
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WinoGelato wrote: »moonlights wrote: »I'm 5'2", female, I eat less than 20g carbs a day and between 1800 and 2000 calories - most of my calories are from fat. According to the guidelines on here I shouldn't lose eating at this calorie level but I lost 50lbs in about 8 months. When I eat carbs and cut calories I tend to gain - and I'm hoping to go back to low carb permanently now after some bad emotional eating. I feel better and more energetic on low carb and once I'm at goal I can increase carbs to 100g ish and still maintain. Ymmv but that's been my experience. Low carb isn't easy to stick to but neither is low calorie, for me. I'm starving all the time on low calorie and rarely hungry at all on low carb. It's pretty much a miracle diet if you ask me.
This is the sort of anecdotal claim of eating above ones maintenance level due to the miraculous low carb diet that is simply not helpful... If you are losing weight it is because you are consuming less calories than you burn. If eating a LC diet helps you create and stay in a calorie deficit, and you find it a sustainable way of eating, great, but it is still the calorie deficit that is causing the weight loss, not a miracle diet.
What works for moonlights doesn't work for you, and vice-versa. I don't think it's helpful for you to essentially call moonlights out; your tone suggests you think she's either lying, or exaggerating. But look -- her diet works FOR HER. The diet you describe would be an absolute disaster for me, with all the bread and ice cream, pizza, cookies. I'd be 30 pounds heavier in about a year on that diet.
To each his or her own.
how is that? Wine agreed as she lost on the same amount of calories and is the same size? Low carb does not guarantee weight loss is her point...
but moonlight claiming she shouldn't be losing on those calories and it's all due to low carb is not accurate...yes her diet works for her...it wouldn't work for me...and it might not work for others..but she shouldn't make claims that aren't totally fact.2 -
http://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet
Very interesting. People first believed that the world was flat. I'm just saying. It's a lot of different ways to look at things. Not defending or undefending this link. It is interesting though.0 -
Thedietdoctor. People should read this website with a critical eye. The information is dishonest at best.0
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queenliz99 wrote: »Thedietdoctor. People should read this website with a critical eye. The information is dishonest at best.
Your proof?0 -
queenliz99 wrote: »Thedietdoctor. People should read this website with a critical eye. The information is dishonest at best.
Your proof?
If your source wouldn't fly in a university homework, don't use it in a serious discussion about something scientific.4 -
queenliz99 wrote: »Thedietdoctor. People should read this website with a critical eye. The information is dishonest at best.
Your proof?
I know for a fact that he is lying. Takes one instance to disprove a claim. I personally gained weight on a ketogenic diet with a carb level even lower than his (less than 20 g of carbs a day) because I found it hard to keep my calories under control with the sort of hunger I had.3 -
moonlights wrote: »I'm 5'2", female, I eat less than 20g carbs a day and between 1800 and 2000 calories - most of my calories are from fat. According to the guidelines on here I shouldn't lose eating at this calorie level but I lost 50lbs in about 8 months. When I eat carbs and cut calories I tend to gain - and I'm hoping to go back to low carb permanently now after some bad emotional eating. I feel better and more energetic on low carb and once I'm at goal I can increase carbs to 100g ish and still maintain. Ymmv but that's been my experience. Low carb isn't easy to stick to but neither is low calorie, for me. I'm starving all the time on low calorie and rarely hungry at all on low carb. It's pretty much a miracle diet if you ask me.
If you magically gain weight when you eat carbs (and CUT calories), how on earth do you propose to NOT gain weight when you increase your carbs again in maintenance? Will being at your "goal" weight automatically keep your weight stable? Is 100 grams of carbs the magic carb number to stay at and maintain weight?
Help me understand your reasoning.
1 -
http://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet
Very interesting. People first believed that the world was flat. I'm just saying. It's a lot of different ways to look at things. Not defending or undefending this link. It is interesting though.
lololol Who in the h.e.ll could even afford to eat 5k+ calories a day? So much horse crap.2 -
moonlights wrote: »I'm 5'2", female, I eat less than 20g carbs a day and between 1800 and 2000 calories - most of my calories are from fat. According to the guidelines on here I shouldn't lose eating at this calorie level but I lost 50lbs in about 8 months. When I eat carbs and cut calories I tend to gain - and I'm hoping to go back to low carb permanently now after some bad emotional eating. I feel better and more energetic on low carb and once I'm at goal I can increase carbs to 100g ish and still maintain. Ymmv but that's been my experience. Low carb isn't easy to stick to but neither is low calorie, for me. I'm starving all the time on low calorie and rarely hungry at all on low carb. It's pretty much a miracle diet if you ask me.
If you magically gain weight when you eat carbs (and CUT calories), how on earth do you propose to NOT gain weight when you increase your carbs again in maintenance? Will being at your "goal" weight automatically keep your weight stable? Is 100 grams of carbs the magic carb number to stay at and maintain weight?
Help me understand your reasoning.
Good catch.0
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