I keep seeing "you NEED to lift heavy"
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OP I agree to a certain extent but it depends on your goals. If someone says they want to just look good and be fit then lifting is totally optional. If someone says I want to increase the size of my (butt, arms, whatever) the only way to do that is to overload the muscle. Lifting is the far and away most efficient way to do that0
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xjessicaxrx wrote: »So does running not build muscle then? Because my legs have got pretty solid since I started! Before running I was swimming (1 mile 3-4 times per week, fast- in around 25 mins) and I could have sworn my muscles were working and even aching afterwards then! Or does that not count?
I know everyone says that if you dont lift while losing weight that you lose muscle aswel as fat, but honestly how true is this, are you all fully qualified human biologists? Because I actually have a qualification in human biology and sports science which I studied at college for 2 years and never was this an actual fact stated!! Yes if you starve yourself and dont move much to lose weight you will waste away, but if you increase your excersise in any form you use your muscles, therefore they increase endurance.
It absolutely can. your body needs to adapt to the stress. But because it is an endurance activity after your body builds enough muscle to handle the stress of running it will stop after a certain point and other means will be needed.2 -
Depends on goal ..if you like to run, run ...you can make that progressive through intensity, incline, speed, distance, carrying weight if you choose to
IMHO Progressive resistance makes you look good naked, whereas being the appropriate weight means you look good in clothes
Not everybody is interested in looking good naked since most of us spend more time with clothes on....Besides, there is not proven guarantee that progressive resistance will give you a good naked body. A lot depends on genetic and age.
Edited to add that I DO lift weights and do moderate cardio.
Is there a reason you would take a strangers opinion on the benefits of progressive resistance so personally?
It wasn't directed at everybody ..it was my opinion. I personally am interested in looking good naked and in clothes, I'm also old enough to hit the "age" part of your 'depends on'...and I still want to look good naked ..how does that impact on "everyone"
I do believe that the right training can help you towards your desired body aesthetic within your genetic potential
As for the bolded part you are the age of my older child so, no, you are not that old. Enjoy your age and the benefit that you still get for "lifting heavy." Been there, done that. I was hitting the gym and working with weights before it was the fad of the century.1 -
I don't lift heavy, but do strength training for muscles mass and bone density. You can lift lower weight and higher rep and do just fine when you incorporate it into your cardio. Hell, consistent circuit training works wonders even.3
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Depends on goal ..if you like to run, run ...you can make that progressive through intensity, incline, speed, distance, carrying weight if you choose to
IMHO Progressive resistance makes you look good naked, whereas being the appropriate weight means you look good in clothes
Not everybody is interested in looking good naked since most of us spend more time with clothes on....Besides, there is not proven guarantee that progressive resistance will give you a good naked body. A lot depends on genetic and age.
Edited to add that I DO lift weights and do moderate cardio.
Is there a reason you would take a strangers opinion on the benefits of progressive resistance so personally?
It wasn't directed at everybody ..it was my opinion. I personally am interested in looking good naked and in clothes, I'm also old enough to hit the "age" part of your 'depends on'...and I still want to look good naked ..how does that impact on "everyone"
I do believe that the right training can help you towards your desired body aesthetic within your genetic potential
As for the bolded part you are the age of my older child so, no, you are not that old. Enjoy your age and the benefit that you still get for "lifting heavy." Been there, done that. I was hitting the gym and working with weights before it was the fad of the century.
If you were doing it before it was "the Fad of the century".....odds are it's not a "fad".
Everyone is getting caught up on the term "heavy". In heavy lifting all that means is you're progressively overloading. You can "lift heavy" without even touching a weight.1 -
Depends on goal ..if you like to run, run ...you can make that progressive through intensity, incline, speed, distance, carrying weight if you choose to
IMHO Progressive resistance makes you look good naked, whereas being the appropriate weight means you look good in clothes
Not everybody is interested in looking good naked since most of us spend more time with clothes on....Besides, there is not proven guarantee that progressive resistance will give you a good naked body. A lot depends on genetic and age.
Edited to add that I DO lift weights and do moderate cardio.
Is there a reason you would take a strangers opinion on the benefits of progressive resistance so personally?
It wasn't directed at everybody ..it was my opinion. I personally am interested in looking good naked and in clothes, I'm also old enough to hit the "age" part of your 'depends on'...and I still want to look good naked ..how does that impact on "everyone"
I do believe that the right training can help you towards your desired body aesthetic within your genetic potential
As for the bolded part you are the age of my older child so, no, you are not that old. Enjoy your age and the benefit that you still get for "lifting heavy." Been there, done that. I was hitting the gym and working with weights before it was the fad of the century.
If you were doing it before it was "the Fad of the century".....odds are it's not a "fad".
Everyone is getting caught up on the term "heavy". In heavy lifting all that means is you're progressively overloading. You can "lift heavy" without even touching a weight.
while I do agree with this.
and to those that hated my post about weenie weights, it was joke! I have been around these forums for quite a while now and after today, there are some really touchy people out there in MFP land!6 -
Depends on goal ..if you like to run, run ...you can make that progressive through intensity, incline, speed, distance, carrying weight if you choose to
IMHO Progressive resistance makes you look good naked, whereas being the appropriate weight means you look good in clothes
Not everybody is interested in looking good naked since most of us spend more time with clothes on....Besides, there is not proven guarantee that progressive resistance will give you a good naked body. A lot depends on genetic and age.
Edited to add that I DO lift weights and do moderate cardio.
Is there a reason you would take a strangers opinion on the benefits of progressive resistance so personally?
It wasn't directed at everybody ..it was my opinion. I personally am interested in looking good naked and in clothes, I'm also old enough to hit the "age" part of your 'depends on'...and I still want to look good naked ..how does that impact on "everyone"
I do believe that the right training can help you towards your desired body aesthetic within your genetic potential
As for the bolded part you are the age of my older child so, no, you are not that old. Enjoy your age and the benefit that you still get for "lifting heavy." Been there, done that. I was hitting the gym and working with weights before it was the fad of the century.
If you were doing it before it was "the Fad of the century".....odds are it's not a "fad".
Everyone is getting caught up on the term "heavy". In heavy lifting all that means is you're progressively overloading. You can "lift heavy" without even touching a weight.
while I do agree with this.
and to those that hated my post about weenie weights, it was joke! I have been around these forums for quite a while now and after today, there are some really touchy people out there in MFP land!
Totes agree, and odds on we're thinking of different posters1 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »The definitions I've seen for "lifting heavy" around this board are more of the 5-8 reps/set range. I've seen a more technical answer of a certain percent of your 1RM but I can't recall it off the top of my head.
From what I've read here, very few people on MFP actually lift "heavy."
What is "heavy" is obviously relative but there is a series of comprehensive lifting charts that rates lifting performance for 1RM by gender, age and weight for the major compound lifts used in the Starting Strength and Stronglifts programs -- squats, bench press, deadlift, power clean and overhead press. Heavy in the context of these charts is probably anything in the advanced or elite categories.
See: http://lonkilgore.com/freebies/freebies.html
For example, I'm male, 65 and currently 175 lbs. At 181 lbs an "advanced" male lifter over 60 should be able to do the following 1RM lift:
Squat 210 lbs
Bench Press 160 lbs
Deadlift 250 lbs
Power Clean 155 lbs
OHP 94 lbs
I can honestly say that I exceed all of these 1RM stats for men my age/size BUT these stats are far lower (actually about 33% less) than what would be expected of a man under 40. So, it's all relative but these charts provide the best basis for comparison that I know of.
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Hey, @sgt1372, thanks for that chart.
You have just made a little old woman's great day at the gym even better.
I out perform my averages. Woo hooo!
Sorry for the detour.
Cheers, h.2 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »The definitions I've seen for "lifting heavy" around this board are more of the 5-8 reps/set range. I've seen a more technical answer of a certain percent of your 1RM but I can't recall it off the top of my head.
From what I've read here, very few people on MFP actually lift "heavy."
What is "heavy" is obviously relative but there is a series of comprehensive lifting charts that rates lifting performance for 1RM by gender, age and weight for the major compound lifts used in the Starting Strength and Stronglifts programs -- squats, bench press, deadlift, power clean and overhead press. Heavy in the context of these charts is probably anything in the advanced or elite categories.
See: http://lonkilgore.com/freebies/freebies.html
For example, I'm male, 65 and currently 175 lbs. At 181 lbs an "advanced" male lifter over 60 should be able to do the following 1RM lift:
Squat 210 lbs
Bench Press 160 lbs
Deadlift 250 lbs
Power Clean 155 lbs
OHP 94 lbs
I can honestly say that I exceed all of these 1RM stats for men my age/size BUT these stats are far lower (actually about 33% less) than what would be expected of a man under 40. So, it's all relative but these charts provide the best basis for comparison that I know of.
Lifting heavy also depends on how long you've been lifting, that's why there's columns for "untrained", "novice", "intermediate", "advanced" and "elite".
The Advanced column is definitely not "what should be expected" and is mostly reached by people who've been dedicated lifters for many years and/or who used to have okay strength and kept their lean mass up into older age.2 -
I need not do anything I do not want. The best results you get by doing what you really enjoy, simply because you tend to stick to it.
As it happens I do do weightstraining. I tried it, I liked it, I stuck with it. It is because I want to do it. I do not intend to bulk but I love feeling my body becoming stronger.
Having said all that, core training is important for many sports. My husband is a runner and just got injured a second time because he neglected that completely. Physio told him off for having to return a second time. In his case not having sufficient core stability resulted in not being able to run stable enough in rougher terrain. He is taking care of that now with physio and we are seeing the results. He is not doing weight training. I got a firm no when I offered to share my weights and that is fine with me. He does do floor based core excersises now and that works.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Opinions about opinions regarding other people's opinions? It's an opinion-pocolypse
Opinception0 -
dutchandkiwi wrote: »I need not do anything I do not want. The best results you get by doing what you really enjoy, simply because you tend to stick to it.
As it happens I do do weightstraining. I tried it, I liked it, I stuck with it. It is because I want to do it. I do not intend to bulk but I love feeling my body becoming stronger.
Having said all that, core training is important for many sports. My husband is a runner and just got injured a second time because he neglected that completely. Physio told him off for having to return a second time. In his case not having sufficient core stability resulted in not being able to run stable enough in rougher terrain. He is taking care of that now with physio and we are seeing the results. He is not doing weight training. I got a firm no when I offered to share my weights and that is fine with me. He does do floor based core excersises now and that works.
This is pretty much me as well.
In fact, I wish I didn't wait so long to begin strength training. I don't work to bulk and I don't lift heavy compared to most, but I do challenge myself on every move to lift heavier assuming I can maintain proper form.
Strength training has made the 3 main forms of cardio I do safer and easier in my opinion - Spinning, Rowing and Running.3 -
From Andrea Du Cane's book 'The Ageless Body', "One of the biggest problems with getting older is the loss of muscle and strength, which is called sarcopenia. In physically inactive people, about 0.5% of lean muscle mass is lost every year between the ages of 25 and 60. From age 60 on, the rate of loss doubles to about 1% per year. It doubles again at age 70, again at age 80, and then again at age 90."
This is a very big deal for seniors like me. What I want to do is irrelevant. What I need to do is some strength training of some sort if my golden years are not going to suck badly.
Strength training is generally some sort of progressive resistance training. Heavy is heavy enough to be progressive and light enough to not break me. At age 66 I don't expect a rapid recovery from a stupid ego driven injury like I did to myself as a young knucklehead.
My takeaway from this discussion is that we "need" some strength training, like it or not. The form it takes depends upon where we are now and where we want to be in the future. Have a reasonable goal and keep the goal the goal.5 -
OP, I am not a trainer and I do not have a scientific degree or certificate of any kind, so do with that what you will!
Lifting weights isn't necessary to have a fit body, but it is the most efficient way. It's more balanced - if you run, your legs are holding up all the weight, so they are getting all the strength benefit, your upper body not so much. If you look at swimmers, runners, and bicyclists they all have very different bodies. Most cardio will provide some "weight bearing" to parts of your body, but not others. A good progressive lifting program challenges everything.
So the advice is always to lift, because it covers everything. Some people could run or bike forever, and never get the look they want. Swimming requires access to a place to swim, which many don't have, and lots of people are afraid of the water or hate the chlorine. Lifting is something anyone can do, and you only need to do it 3 times a week and you're good. So it's the easiest advice to give.
If you are happy with the way you look and how fit you are, then you aren't the person this advice would be given to. At least in my view, it is always offered to people who aren't happy with how they look as they are losing weight, have no idea what exercise to do, or ask which workout is the "best" to get the body they want.
Also remember muscle endurance, muscle strength, and muscle size are all different things, and different activities affect those three things differently, they don't necessarily go hand in hand. They are also separate things from cardiovascular endurance, flexibility, coordination, and balance. All those qualities are important for different reasons depending on your goals, and if you want to improve as many of them as possible, you will probably need to vary your exercise program. If you are happy with where you are with all of them, or you just don't care about some of them, then you can just do what you enjoy! Hope that makes sense, I typed more than I intended 3 -
Interesting article and heavy lifting vs. non-heavy
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/lifting-lighter-weights-can-be-just-as-effective-as-heavy-ones/?mwrsm=LinkedIn&_r=0
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xjessicaxrx wrote: »Cherimoose wrote: »
So you didn't always enjoy running, correct? What makes you think you won't enjoy being a strong woman?
No I used to hate it because it used to kill me, not anymore but iv always walked and love the outdoors (I sit in an office all day mon to fri) so time wise id much rather be outside than spending time in a gym, that is my main gripe.
I have done weights in the past, and Body pump which I did really enjoy, but the times of the classes and location dont work for me. I would probably start Body pump again if there was a class nearer to home but there isnt.
I am a lifter...heavy lifter but my suggestion is always to do some form of resistance training...
I don't go to a gym I do it at home and it is relatively cheap to do it at home...most equipment can be found cheap 2nd hand.
I run too..lifting has helped my running so much.
But again if you don't want to...don't but...do some form of resistance training esp as a woman. It helps with bone density and it will help keep the muscle you have which we lose fast after 40 and esp in Menopause.
btw I love being strong....I can bench more than my husband and son (pound for pound)0 -
Form follows function. Strength training can give you more power and less fatigue for your sport (or just to open your own doors).
OP you may want to give 6 weeks of SL5x5 a try to feel the power. I did. And I don't want to lose that feeling so I lift to keep it. I add glute work like hip thrusts, bridges, pull-throughs to compound lifts now and have found the training has real benefits to my tennis and occasional run.
As I said, I lift to keep the power. It feels superhuman. There are power lifters who lift for sport. That's not me. I lift for health.1 -
mochachichi wrote: »Interesting article and heavy lifting vs. non-heavy
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/lifting-lighter-weights-can-be-just-as-effective-as-heavy-ones/?mwrsm=LinkedIn&_r=0
That's an interesting article, but they have a bit of a skewed idea of what a 1 rep max is. If you can do 8-10 reps, that is not 90% of your 1RM.1 -
Ya I saw that too @BillMcKay1 but they say it was between 75 and 90 percent of the man’s one-repetition maximum (not just 90%) and the volunteer lifted until he could not lift again, usually after about 10 reps. We just aren't given the info as to which person at which percentage lifted how many reps...but I see your point. Without seeing the actual study, we're only getting the short story version so I'd hate to make assumptions0
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Also whenever I say lift heavy it is to emphasise that a 5 or 10lb dumbbell is not what is meant
Women have been poorly served in the fitness industry by the concept of greater reps and pink Dumbbells ...IMHO
Win!
rather the words heavy lifting is a named trend or not, the term is used here that most of us come to see a lot and very used to in which we mean to specially say heavy lifting always means not the 5, 10 pound weenie weights!
Wow, my gym has sets of 15 and 20lbs "pink" dumb bells, so I guess that the color makes them weenies...
So sad an unfair to put labels on what people want or can lift.
I honestly can understand though. It's not labeling, IMHO. We as women have heard it all from "women shouldn't lift more than 10lbs", "You don't need to lift more than 10lbs" and many, many women actually believe that they just can't, but it is a mental "I can't". Many women believe that they're weak as because they are told that they are. However, some women have decided to break through that blanket-statement thinking and prove them oh so wrong. There was a time where I couldn't bench press more than 2 5lbs dumbbells and I believed I was 'weak'. It wasn't until someone here smashed that way of thinking for me and I finally decided to test myself. I was actually able to bench press 60lbs and do 3x12 and I learned that I was not challenging myself before at all. Now I think those little weights are weenie for me and everyone has to start somewhere, don't they? That doesn't mean anyone who lifts like that is a weenie, or that they're being made fun of. Not at all. We all have to start somewhere, but breaking down that mental barrier is a must. Whenever someone does break down that mental barrier, it becomes such a huge surprise and it encourages them to keep lifting.1 -
mochachichi wrote: »Ya I saw that too @BillMcKay1 but they say it was between 75 and 90 percent of the man’s one-repetition maximum (not just 90%) and the volunteer lifted until he could not lift again, usually after about 10 reps. We just aren't given the info as to which person at which percentage lifted how many reps...but I see your point. Without seeing the actual study, we're only getting the short story version so I'd hate to make assumptions
10 reps is considered 75% of 1RM. But if you asked most people that isn't lifting "heavy". 8-12reps is hypertrophy range. Great for mass, not so good for strength gains. Heavy is more 3-5 rep range.0 -
What I object to is people who say they want to tone up a little or do a recomp to reduce their last jiggly bits (yea im using terms that people who need help would use, don't jump on me terms and definitions police) and then get told that lifting heavy is the only option.the only way.the gospel! I disagree, simply because I don't know what you consider heavy, but I lift my body weight and nothing more. I do it often but still, never is more weight added. This has done crazy things to my body, it gave me definition I've never seen before, visible abs, split shoulders, lovely back definition and I'm only getting stronger, but not getting bigger (which is key for me, I like being cut and petite! ) I think it's important people find what they enjoy and what works for themselves as individuals not just "you need to lift heavy" because no one can deny that is a one line answer a lot of the time on here!6
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What I object to is people who say they want to tone up a little or do a recomp to reduce their last jiggly bits (yea im using terms that people who need help would use, don't jump on me terms and definitions police) and then get told that lifting heavy is the only option.the only way.the gospel! I disagree, simply because I don't know what you consider heavy, but I lift my body weight and nothing more. I do it often but still, never is more weight added. This has done crazy things to my body, it gave me definition I've never seen before, visible abs, split shoulders, lovely back definition and I'm only getting stronger, but not getting bigger (which is key for me, I like being cut and petite! ) I think it's important people find what they enjoy and what works for themselves as individuals not just "you need to lift heavy" because no one can deny that is a one line answer a lot of the time on here!
Amen to that 2 -
We tell people they need to lift heavy because they ask questions like "how to I get this body", or "how do I get stronger". The answer is lift heavy, duh.0
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Why the need to "duh" people for asking a question?!6
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arditarose wrote: »We tell people they need to lift heavy because they ask questions like "how to I get this body", or "how do I get stronger". The answer is lift heavy, duh.
That isnt the context where I see that 1 liner the most... Any strength training at all would be a start for most people! I am not sure why u feel the need to be so obnoxious about it?4 -
xjessicaxrx wrote: »arditarose wrote: »We tell people they need to lift heavy because they ask questions like "how to I get this body", or "how do I get stronger". The answer is lift heavy, duh.
That isnt the context where I see that 1 liner the most... Any strength training at all would be a start for most people! I am not sure why u feel the need to be so obnoxious about it?
I guess I just feel the need to be obnoxious. Where do you see it recommended if not for people who have specifically asked for a goal that requires resistance training? That would be something like "I want to lose weight", or "I don't care about saving muscle but would like to lose weight", or something specific to one's sport (which lifting can sometimes be recommended for as well).1 -
xjessicaxrx wrote: »arditarose wrote: »We tell people they need to lift heavy because they ask questions like "how to I get this body", or "how do I get stronger". The answer is lift heavy, duh.
That isnt the context where I see that 1 liner the most... Any strength training at all would be a start for most people! I am not sure why u feel the need to be so obnoxious about it?
Do you have any particular examples?
I tend to see it in the oppostie context, where someone has a specific goal .0
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