August (2016) Running Challenge
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Done with my running cycle for the week and now I get two days for rest (from running at least) before my long run on Sunday.
35/85 for the month so far.3 -
AdrianChr92 wrote: »@5512bf @luluinca Max HR is set and you can't train it. You can lower your resting heart rate but you can't increase your max. It's set. Only time you go over your max is if you are having a heart attack or something like that. Problem is it's hard to achieve max heart rate. Most people will give up before hitting it because of the extreme discomfort. I thought mine was 196 because that's what I reached in a 5k but then I did another 5k with 100% humidity and kicked a little too hard at the end. I though I was gonna die right there. Hit 198.
I agree your true max HR is completely unknown, however my point was that those formulas to determine them are useless, especially for those who do a lot of cardio training. I do believe that with cardio training you are obtain HR numbers that are higher than those formulas will calculate and do so without any negative consequence. Like you said, to get your HR in the high 190's, for just about anyone, is incredibly uncomfortable and you are only able to do so for a few seconds before you just have to stop.
When I first started running a HR of 175-180 felt like death and I couldn't go on, now 175-180 is something I see several times a month when doing threshold work and can go with that HR for 15-20 minutes. I think you can push the formula number upwards with training, but you are correct that anything over your true max is bad news.
My understanding is also that you can't change your max HR and that max HR is not an indication of fitness. Lactate threshold HR is an indication of fitness and is something you can increase. I suspect that you have increased you LT HR, which is why you are now more comfortable in the 175-180 range. As you become more fit, your LT HR will get closer to you max HR so you will be capable of seeing higher numbers because you can reach and sustain that HR more easily, but that doesn't necessarily mean that your max HR has changed. Again, this is just how I have always understood heart rate and training.1 -
lporter229 wrote: »AdrianChr92 wrote: »@5512bf @luluinca Max HR is set and you can't train it. You can lower your resting heart rate but you can't increase your max. It's set. Only time you go over your max is if you are having a heart attack or something like that. Problem is it's hard to achieve max heart rate. Most people will give up before hitting it because of the extreme discomfort. I thought mine was 196 because that's what I reached in a 5k but then I did another 5k with 100% humidity and kicked a little too hard at the end. I though I was gonna die right there. Hit 198.
I agree your true max HR is completely unknown, however my point was that those formulas to determine them are useless, especially for those who do a lot of cardio training. I do believe that with cardio training you are obtain HR numbers that are higher than those formulas will calculate and do so without any negative consequence. Like you said, to get your HR in the high 190's, for just about anyone, is incredibly uncomfortable and you are only able to do so for a few seconds before you just have to stop.
When I first started running a HR of 175-180 felt like death and I couldn't go on, now 175-180 is something I see several times a month when doing threshold work and can go with that HR for 15-20 minutes. I think you can push the formula number upwards with training, but you are correct that anything over your true max is bad news.
My understanding is also that you can't change your max HR and that max HR is not an indication of fitness. Lactate threshold HR is an indication of fitness and is something you can increase. I suspect that you have increased you LT HR, which is why you are now more comfortable in the 175-180 range. As you become more fit, your LT HR will get closer to you max HR so you will be capable of seeing higher numbers because you can reach and sustain that HR more easily, but that doesn't necessarily mean that your max HR has changed. Again, this is just how I have always understood heart rate and training.
Thanks, I think I'm understanding it now. So when I thought I was going to die at 135 it was more because I had become rather unfit. Makes sense. I went through a terrible ordeal and was overall very weak and unfit when I got back to a fitness routine. I think my max must be slightly above 180 which is different than the formula but that doesn't really bother me. I just want to run a little faster! I'm not really interested in pushing the envelope here and reaching my max HR.
Am I the oldest runner here......LOL?1 -
@luluinca Yea that's how it works. If you can hold an 11 min pace at let's say 150 bpm, with enough training you could hold an 11 min pace at 140 bpm which means you can go faster for the same effort0
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AdrianChr92 wrote: »@luluinca Yea that's how it works. If you can hold an 11 min pace at let's say 150 bpm, with enough training you could hold an 11 min pace at 140 bpm which means you can go faster for the same effort
Thanks for all the help with understanding this stuff everyone! I really appreciate it. I guess I just never really thought about it too much before, even though I've monitored my HR off and on for 3 years. Now that I'm running though I'm finding it much more interesting.
I'm looking forward to my Sunday run, it will be my first one without my dog and on something besides the horse trails here. I think I'll be faster but who knows? I'm going for 3.5 - 4 miles hopefully.0 -
8/1 - 3.0 miles
8/2 - 3.0 miles
8/5 - 2.0 miles
8/6 - 6.2 miles
8/8 - 3.0 miles
8/9 - 3.0 miles
8/11 - 3.8 miles
Goal: 45
Total to date: 24
21 to go
Upcoming Races:
Peachtree City Classic 15k 10/15/162 -
Alright, I couldn't stand putting down 0 miles two days in a row so I went out there and ran 2.06 slow and sweaty miles. I forgot to charge my Garmin and it died out after 11 minutes, so I switched to my Nike+ app on my phone. I couldn't be without data!
Despite the humidity, it felt good to get the legs moving a little bit. They were stiff and wobbly to start. I ordered a muscle roller that's coming from Amazon tomorrow and those legs are going to love it! And it was good to de-stress after the last couple of days. Now to figure out when to run tomorrow as it will be beastly hot again. I should get up early...
Slowly creeping up on miles for August.
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@AdrianChr92 - oh my gosh, that does sound like the worst run ever!
@Virkati - Your dog running story cracked me up.
@skippygirlsmom - 2 days down. Both went very well. The kids are great. The preplanning 6 days was the worst I've ever been through. I usually hate preplanning weeks because I do a lot of stuff for teachers (database setup, etc) and computer stuff so I am so busy. But this year was the worst. I knew and kept trying to tell myself ... when school starts it will all be fine. And it was. Next year I need to go to doctor and get a script for some type of sedative for pre-planning week. I ran every day of preplanning to help with the stress so can't imagine if I hadn't run!
@kristinegift - My daughter said it was brutal running in NYC this morning too. And this weekend is suppose to be really bad. She had to cut it short because she was so hot/sick. She's around your age (I assume, 23) and training for her first marathon while working and is a little in shock. All those years of college and having more time to run... and now really busy in her FT job, working lots of hours. I sent her some of the Oiselle running clothes and she loves them too!
@FrankieandSpots - oh my gosh - sorry about the toe. To me, nothing is more painful than toe pain!
@sunkisd1105 - I used to get awful sinus . They were so bad I thought they were migraines. Anyway, I became addicted to local honey. I have a Tablespoon every day and haven't had a sinus headache in about 3 years. The only problem is when I travel. If I'm only in a city for a couple days I don't have a problem. But if I go visit my mom or daughter in different states during the time stuff is blooming I have to go search for local honey!
@Elise4270 - yeah, I'm thinking the stair climbing probably wasn't in the list of things you could do. I know you are going crazy though! Can't blame you.
That's great advice! I will hit the farmer's market this weekend and give it a try! Thanks a bunch!
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@ddmom0811 I am right around your daughter's age (I'm 25) and in her boat! New FT job and trying to figure out when to train for a marathon and be the LEAST miserable. But we've got a terrible heatwave upon us right now and it's only going to get worse. Fri-Sat overnight low of 78 and Sat-Sun low of 76. Ridiculous stuff.
And @ Everyone else who commented on weather: Though I wish the weather was better, I am glad we're all suffering together 2 -
8/1: 3.6 miles w/ the Coffee Crew
8/2: 5 miles
8/3: Rest day
8/4: 7 miles (am)
...... 6.4 miles (pm)
8/5: Rest day
8/6: 10 miles w/ the Saturday Crew
8/7: 18 miles
8/8: 6.9 miles
8/9: Rest day
8/10: 8.9 miles (am)
........: 4.2 miles (pm)
8/11: 5.3 miles (am)
........: 6.4 miles (pm)
It was awful weather tonight and it showed with the number of people who showed for our running group. Normally we get a minimum of 12-15 people when it's hot, but today we had about 6 people show. It had just stormed before the run started, and it was about 80F (around 26C) and at least 70% humidity. Less humid than this morning, but felt pretty awful. Kept the pace low and ran with another lady who usually paces slower than I do and we chatted the entire time which was really nice; kept us honest about not pushing too hard.
Really excited for a rest day tomorrow, but I'm dreading the weekend runs. Overnight lows in the high 70s does not bode well for double long runs. Oi vey.
Upcoming Races:
9/11: Lehigh Valley Via Marathon (Several Towns, PA)
(10/16: Halloween Half (Morristown, NJ) >> maybe)
11/20: Philadelphia Marathon (Philadelphia, PA)
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Welcome to the craziness group family from a mid-stater! C'mon down to Macon for the Labor Day Road Race for a training run!atlantarunner wrote: »I hope to be able to run (survive) the Atlanta 10-Miler in late October.1 -
Finally got to look at my HR data for this morning's run. Average heart rate for the 30 minute tempo portion was 169 bpm, with a max of 177. Thing is that it didn't feel like I was pushing it. Sure it was fast (for me) at 8:20 per mile, but I definitely didn't feel like I should have set PRs for 5k and 10k, but I did. I guess I must be getting in better shape. Looking forward to rest tomorrow so I can get my Saturday long run in while rested, before jumping back into another build up after this cutback week.
Just over 6 more weeks until HM number 2!4 -
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August Running Totals (miles)
8/1 – 5.90 easy plus 4 strides
8/2 – 6.24 hill run
8/3 – rest day
8/4 – 13.56 hot and humid
8/5 – rest day
8/6 – 14.13 paced run
8/7 – 7.75 almost easy
8/8 – 6.30 easy + 4 strides
8/9 – 7.34 warmup, easy with a few fartleks
8/10 – 6.66 group run
8/11 – 4.18 lunch run
8/11 – 0.88+2.04+1.15 warmup, time trial, cool down - daily double
August total to date – 76.13
Nominal Challenge Goal – 200 miles
Real Goals: Survive last month before retirement. Train as well as possible toward Rochester Marathon. Avoid putting myself back on the couch.
Today's notes – I'm calling it a daily double, but it felt like 4 separate runs today. I had a training puzzle: My major upcoming race is the Rochester Marathon. The training plan calls for an extended tempo interval run that I estimate will total between 10 and 11 miles. But I'm running a 5K on Saturday. Tuesday, Coach told me to go light on the speed work today, maybe one set of 15 second cutbacks starting at 90 seconds. That would really undercut my mileage base for the week, and the mileage base is the weakest part of my training for Rochester. And then the training program I pace long runs for invited pacers to the 2 mile time trial this evening. Okay, I know how that works; about a mile really slow running from the store to the office park, 2 miles fast, and another slow mile back to the store. It's not enough to really feel like I've had a complete workout or a complete run.
So I pondered all this, and since today is my only work at home day this week I ran on my lunch hour. That was the 4.18 miles in 32:08. My porch thermometer said 90º F, but the Garmin feed says it was only 86º. In any case, there wasn't much shade at noon, and breeze was intermittent. I was probably a bit faster than I should have been for an easy run, but I'll take 4 miles at lunch any way I can get it. For those following heart rate data, average was 130 and max was 143. Not bad, given that it was hot and humid.
Got to Fleet Feet in plenty of time. The run from the store to the office park where they do the time trials was at an unnatural slow pace so the group could keep up. I noticed I was moving up and down a lot, compared to how far forward I was moving. OMG! Told the coach I was running next to, "We're jogging! Please, let's not find any dead bodies." (Y'all have corrupted my view of running vs. jogging.) That total run was 0.88 miles in 9:00 minutes, for an average pace of 10:16 per mile. I didn't know I could run that slow, and I probably can't without someone else setting the pace. Garmin says it was 91º, and my average heart rate was 110, max 123.
I'm the rabbit for the 2 mile time trial. The guy who ran a 12:49 and got put into the 8:30 pace group for long runs wasn't there this evening, so I got the experience of running a pseudo-race in the lead from start to finish. That will never happen in a real race. I have thought for some time that the 2 miles the program marks off are a bit longer than 2 miles; but Garmin reported 2.04 miles in 12:36. That's close enough that the 2 miles might be race measurement, by shortest legal distance plus 1% for error. I didn't run terrible tangents, but you can't run perfect tangents when the road is open to traffic and you need to pass people that you're lapping. So it might be a fair race distance 2 miles. Average pace would have been 6:18 per mile on nominal distance, 6:11 per mile on Garmin distance. Garmin reported the temperature as 90º and the humidity was enough that the coaches were warning about dehydration and heatstroke before the trial started. (No incidents along those lines, fortunately.) Average heart rate was 153, max 162.
I took the run back to the store solo, and went a longer route than the group did. Then I added some junk distance around the parking lot, and looped back to finish the last 200 to 300 meters with the group leaders. That was 1.15 miles in 9:21, for an average pace of 8:07 per mile and the closest thing to a proper easy run I've had today. Garmin reported the temperature as 90º. Average heart rate 133, max 140.
The plan for the 2 mile time trial was not to go all out as if it were a 2 mile race, but try to run it at I pace, which is approximately 5K race pace. I had enough gas left in the tank at the end that I might have been able to keep it up another mile, so that worked out well. And the pace translates to a 5K around 19:30, which would tie my second best 5K result. So perhaps I'm conditioned reasonably well for the 5K on Saturday.
Reading the posts today has me thinking about the heart rate. Garmin claims my max heart rate is 185. I am 60 years old, so 220 - age puts my max at 160, and 217 - 85% of age puts it at 166. Running a short race like a 5K with my heart rate averaging in the low to mid 150s is no big deal; running at marathon pace in good weather, my heart rate will be in the low 140s. On long runs, I tend to gravitate toward a heart rate somewhere around 130 unless I'm artificially slow to stay with other runners. I don't think I understand where my heart rate ought to be well enough to train by heart rate, but I find it interesting to look at it after the fact and try to figure out what it's telling me.
Rest day tomorrow. 5K on Saturday. 20 days till I'm retired.
Life is good.
2016 races:
January 1, 2016 Resolution Run 7.5 mile (Mendon, NY) finished in 53:58
January 9, 2016 Winter Warrior Half Marathon (Gates, NY) finished in 1:30:59
March 12, 2016 Johnny's Runnin' of the Green 5 mile (Rochester, NY) finished in 32:32
March 26, 2016 Spring Forward Distance Run 15K (Mendon, NY) finished in 1:05:24
April 18, 2016 Boston Marathon (Hopkinton, MA) finished in 3:23:01
April 24, 2016 Flower City Challenge Half Marathon (Rochester, NY) finished in 1:36:50, targeting MP
May 15, 2016 Highland Hospital Lilac Run 10K (Rochester, NY) DNS - injury
June 19, 2016 Medved 5K to Cure ALS (Rochester, NY) DNS - recovering from face plant
July 16, 2016 Shoreline Half Marathon (Hamlin, NY) finished in 1:31:11
August 13, 2016 Bergen Road Race 5K (Bergen, NY)
September 18, 2016 Rochester Marathon (Rochester, NY)
November 24, 2016 Race with Grace 10K (Hilton, NY)
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8/01: Off, rest day
8/02: 4 miles, easy + strides + strength training
8/03: 8 miles, fartlek
8/04: 4 miles, easy + strides + strength training
8/05: Off, active rest day - leisurely biking and walking
8/06: 13.1 miles, long and super easy
8/07: 10K race (51:59 - 6.30 miles) + 2.13 mile warm up
8/08: Off, rest day
8/09: 4 miles, easy + strides + strength training
8/10: 5 miles
8/11: Off, injured - 45 minutes elliptical + strength training
Total: 46.7 miles
Overview:
Thank you everyone who has encouraged me/sent well wishes regarding my injured leg!
It tested out the elliptical this morning, and it didn't hurt so I did that for 45 minutes, then did some of my usual strength training routine (the parts that didn't hurt). My leg feels about the same today that it did yesterday- still hurts when I stand on it or walk around. Planning to go back to the gym tomorrow and cross train for another hour or so, then do some core. Hopefully I will be back to running soon! I guess I'll revise my distance goal for the month once I'm there haha
Upcoming races:
8/07: Chicago 10K 51:59 - not my best by a long shot but I'll take it
8/26: Rock the Night 5K
9/10: Chicago Women's Half Marathon
9/25: Lifetime 5K
10/09: Chicago Marathon
10/30: Hot Chocolate 5K
11/27: Space Coast Half Marathon3 -
12 km Jaunt along the River Bank Trails.
Extended out to the Far South end of town where 20 years ago there was a landslide that resulted in a 2 km x 1km section of riverbank dropping 50-100m. They were just starting to develop the area so once they cleared the trees and started trenching for services ( water/sewer/electrical etc. ) they hit underground springs that flooded all the service cuts, caused a landslide and resulted in the area being abandoned for residential development and was turned into a big rough cut park like area. Makes for a great running area- unfortunately it's 4 km one way from my front door.
The old calf felt good as long as I stayed above 6 min/km, if I tried to push the pace below 6 min/km it would " Twinge " at me within 100m. So 12 km @ ~ 6:15/km = 76 minutes. Will take some more time to get back to my old 5:30/km pace
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A few Guerilla gardeners have claimed some areas adding some color with Vegetable and Flower beds
. The Springs provide endless water for all the gardens and a nice place to refill water bottles with ice cold water ( or stash beer ).
A modest 25C ( 77F ) and 64% humidity. No where near the painful high temperature and humidity so many of you are running in.
08/01 – 0.0 km – 0.0 - 140 km
08/03 – 9.0 km – 9.0 - 131 km
08/06 –10.0 km – 19.0 - 121 km
08/09 – 6.0 km – 25.0 - 115 km
08/11 –12.0 km – 37.0 - 103 km – YTD 762.2 km
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Woke up with stiff and achy knees, so I decided today was a rest day. Definitely not going to make my 90 miles this month, I think, but that's ok. We've got the same miserable drenching heat and humidity that so many of the rest of you have, and I just don't have the stamina to push it (or the ability to wake up and run in the dark, which is about the only way to avoid the worst of it).
Revising the goal down to 75, which I know I'll make.
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@FrankieandSpots Sorry about the Toe - and because there is an indication of injury back to the Joint this probably means that you will come a member of The Lost Toe Nail Club, which seems to be a Right Of Passage for runners. All though its usually caused by a shoe suddenly not fitting right in the middle of a Race.FrankieandSpots wrote: »100km!
And I smashed my big toe on this nice, steep, rocky, twisty path. Corner of my toenail is split off by a crack and the joint is a bit swollen (and bruising up this morning).0 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »Today's notes: tempo run today.
15 minute warm up
35 minutes at 8:20 pace
15 minute cooldown
Maybe pushed it too hard today. Got a bunch of PRs today including 5k and 10k. Felt good, knee felt good running.
@MNLittleFinn Wow, fast!!
@TattooedDolphinGirl78 Is there youtube video for the 20 minute yoga routine you do? I've been doing Body Balance once a week, but I've realised it makes my back sore quite often, and if I had a routine I could do at home, I wouldn't feel as pressured to do the exercises everyone else is doing at the time.
@Virkati Awww, cute Kelpie!
@katharmonic I hope your doggie is feeling better soon. Glad you got out for the run!0
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