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Protein, Protein, Protein -enough Protein

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Replies

  • trigden1991
    trigden1991 Posts: 4,658 Member
    littlechiaseed wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    littlechiaseed wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    littlechiaseed wrote: »
    Yeah there's a lot of misinformation in general about protein. I gained muscle not eating a crap ton of protein so that myth that you have to eat 100-200g a day to gain muscle is complete crap. Also it doesn't keep me fuller longer.

    What was your muscle gain and what was your protein intake during that time in terms of g/lb? You could gain on .6g/lb, I can see this happening for you if your activity is moderate but that's you specifically and not others. The requirements for protein are actually very well established.
    The RDA is established but there's a lot of wack jobs on here eating like 250g of protein a day for what? Absolutely no rasin.

    I wast eating between 60-100g usually on the lower end so around .4 and .5 per lb body weight.

    Why are they whack jobs? In some individuals there are benefits of high protein, especially if you are cutting weight. This doesn't mean i am suggesting 250g but if i am working to cut fat and maintain or gain muscle in a deficit, i would aim for 1g per lb since i am fairly lean as it is.

    ETA: One thing to consider, there are a lot less negatives and more positives eating more protein that you need. The same argument cant be said about too little protein. Too little problem can cause more problems and there arent really positives that i can think of.

    I've done my fair share of looking at people's diaries on here and most of what I have seen is people eating pretty much nothing but dense protein foods and then I might see 1 vegetable eaten that day and no fruit. What kind of balance is that? Focusing too much on one macro can cause people to not look at other nutrients they need like those from fruits and vegetables. Not everyone, just saying what I've seen. I don't make the news I just report it.

    I personally don't track my vegetable intake as I generally eat lower calorie veg (kale, spinach, brocolli). For me it is more important to track my protein and fat intake as I have goal intakes for those with carbs making up the remainder. Plus my maintenance is relatively high (3000-3500 cals) so I have a larger margin for error than lighter/less lean individuals.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    Sued0nim wrote: »
    littlechiaseed wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    littlechiaseed wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    littlechiaseed wrote: »
    Yeah there's a lot of misinformation in general about protein. I gained muscle not eating a crap ton of protein so that myth that you have to eat 100-200g a day to gain muscle is complete crap. Also it doesn't keep me fuller longer.

    What was your muscle gain and what was your protein intake during that time in terms of g/lb? You could gain on .6g/lb, I can see this happening for you if your activity is moderate but that's you specifically and not others. The requirements for protein are actually very well established.
    The RDA is established but there's a lot of wack jobs on here eating like 250g of protein a day for what? Absolutely no rasin.

    I wast eating between 60-100g usually on the lower end so around .4 and .5 per lb body weight.

    Why are they whack jobs? In some individuals there are benefits of high protein, especially if you are cutting weight. This doesn't mean i am suggesting 250g but if i am working to cut fat and maintain or gain muscle in a deficit, i would aim for 1g per lb since i am fairly lean as it is.

    ETA: One thing to consider, there are a lot less negatives and more positives eating more protein that you need. The same argument cant be said about too little protein. Too little problem can cause more problems and there arent really positives that i can think of.

    I've done my fair share of looking at people's diaries on here and most of what I have seen is people eating pretty much nothing but dense protein foods and then I might see 1 vegetable eaten that day and no fruit. What kind of balance is that? Focusing too much on one macro can cause people to not look at other nutrients they need like those from fruits and vegetables. Not everyone, just saying what I've seen. I don't make the news I just report it.

    So quit looking at low carbers and keto

    I can bet you will find the moderation crew eat much more protein than most lchf and keto followers. Where the deviation tends to occur is those body builders following the current broscience or people who dont know how to implement the protocol correctly.

    The low carb crowd here mostly seems to eat more in the line of the usual recs here (.8 g/lb of goal) even though I know some hard core keto people worry about too much protein (from what I've seen elsewhere). Cutting back on junk food, whether one does it to save calories and have a more satiating diet, because one is keto, because one is "clean" or "paleo" or blah, blah tends in all cases to mean more protein, since the average junk food (slang term with a broadly accepted meaning, IMO) tends to be high in fat and carbs, low in protein. Thus, I suspect eating more protein as a percentage (not in total amount) is common on MFP vs. the average American.

    I also think eating more vegetables, whole grains, etc. tends to be more common on MFP, with the exception of certain hard-core keto diaries I've looked at, but I also think that this varies based on who you look at. I think my MFP friend group or who I happened to peek at tend more that way, so probably that effects how I think of it. (I eat at least 100 g of protein most days and lots and lots of veg and other plant-based foods, because those are really the two things I build meals around. But then I don't log anymore and closed my diary anyway since I started feeling weird about the half-logged days I occasionally do. Lots of the others who focus on lots of veegtables as well as protein also are at goal and don't log anymore, even if they used to, so, not helpful, I guess, but I know I've looked at plenty that are not meal based at all and have regular vegetables as part of meals. Don't see veg and protein as opposed at all, seems weird that they would be.)
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    edited December 2016
    seska422 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Do you really want to just do the bare minimum?

    People who are eating very low calorie only have so many calories to juggle. It's a balancing act. There are many things that need to be worked into daily intake and protein is just one of the considerations.

    MFP defaults 20% protein which puts a 1200 calorie plan at 60 grams. They used to default to 15% but bumped it up to give a bit of a buffer since studies are showing that it's useful to eat above the RDA when losing weight.

    Some seem to feel that 60 grams is still crazy low. It's not.

    People who are on very low calorie diets for extreme weight loss, for instance post bariatric surgery, should be eating a much higher protein ratio than most. If you have watched "My 600 Pound Life" you may have heard the surgeon their say that the ONLY thing that a patient needs is protein post surgery. This is because they will be using their own fat as their primary fuel and they will convert protein to carbohydrates as required as long as they get enough protein. Micros will be covered by some intake of vegetables but mostly through supplements until the person can up their food intake.

    And yes, 60g is low, unless a person is rather light (meaning they are getting .4g to .6g/lb), and will exacerbate sacropenia as a person ages. This isn't speculation, low protein intake, along with sedentary lifestyle, is a recipe for disaster as you age.
  • naculp
    naculp Posts: 225 Member
    FWIW, since I've started training with a coworker, both my lifts and protein numbers have increased. I can't say that the protein was the sole reason for my lifts going up because the intensity of my lifting has gone up too, but I have been hitting anywhere from 170 to 200+ grams of protein on ~2600 calories.
  • SunshineHardcore
    SunshineHardcore Posts: 27 Member
    Unless you're a very tiny person, yes, 60g is crazy low.

    I'm late to the conversation but I want to add my personal cautionary tale. Twenty-two years ago, I did this diet thing called "T-lite". At the time had just had my first son, before I had him however, I did a lot of weight lifting (20-30hrs a week, heavy weight along with half hour of stair climber per day & additional time spent biking). So despite the weight I'd gained while pregnant (pre-ecclampsia made it so much worse) I still had a good deal of muscle mass. Since I was stuck at home with an infant & didn't have any weights, I was willing to try about anything.

    This diet was a three days on, four days off sort of a thing. And it worked as advertised. Despite the fact that I felt like I was starving, I'd lose about 4-7lbs over the three days of the diet & maintain 3-5lbs lost over the week in total. However, after I'd lost about 30lbs or so, I started noticing that Doing things was harder. I stopped doing the diet but the damage was done. I'd lost a ton of muscle mass, I wasn't burning calories as quickly as I used to, and I was in general a mess. Recovering from that took me Years & in the meantime I'd gained back everything i'd lost & then some.

    You don't have to want to bulk up to need protein. You need muscle for daily tasks. You need muscle to burn calories. Once you lose muscle, getting it back is harder & losing weight or maintaining a loss is harder.

    On keto, protein is the only real goal. Carbs are something to limit, and fat is a lever. I'm struggling a bit right now to get all of my protein in. I need about 100-120g per day. I'd rather have slightly more than be deficient & go through what I did 20years ago again. I've been full at around 1200-1300cal per day, but it isn't a win if I end up weak & tired & unable to maintain my loss.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    Protein was the one thing i couldn't get right on keto, I could never get it under 100-110g. Many people struggle to up their protein, i struggled to get it down!
  • 65percentsolution
    65percentsolution Posts: 18 Member
    Wetcoaster wrote: »
    Evidence that protein requirements have been significantly underestimated

    SUMMARY:

    The indicator amino acid oxidation-based requirement values of 0.93 and 1.2 g protein/kg/day and the reanalysis of existing nitrogen balance studies are significantly higher than current recommendations. Therefore, there is an urgent need to reassess recommendations for protein intake in adult humans.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19841581

    Yay for science. The protein recommendation I've seen on several of the more informed keto sites is 1g/kg of weight but not more due apparently to the conversion of proteins to glucose. However, this researched article (although I haven't followed all the links yet, it at least provides all the references it used) seems to indicate that the rate of gluconeogenisis does not change even if there is an excess of protein. So I'm not sure that recommendation of "no more than that" is accurate for the reasons given. But at least the "recommended" values match the science so far.

    Thanks for that article, added to my library.
    Wetcoaster wrote: »
    The best dietary approach for you will depend upon a variety of factors.

    YES! Thank you for being someone else who states this. So tired of evangelists for ANY diet approach. If it works for you, it's probably the right approach. For you.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,420 MFP Moderator
    Knightride48 wrote: »
    psuLemon wrote: »
    seska422 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Do you really want to just do the bare minimum?

    People who are eating very low calorie only have so many calories to juggle. It's a balancing act. There are many things that need to be worked into daily intake and protein is just one of the considerations.

    MFP defaults 20% protein which puts a 1200 calorie plan at 60 grams. They used to default to 15% but bumped it up to give a bit of a buffer since studies are showing that it's useful to eat above the RDA when losing weight.

    Some seem to feel that 60 grams is still crazy low. It's not.

    Those on low calorie diets should have a larger portion of their calories dedicated to protein, not only for muscle retention but also satiety.

    I eat 3 eggs now I don't feel sataited?

    My average omelet is 5 eggs, a ham slice, peppers, onions, salsa and cheese. If I also don't eat potatoes or a yogurt, I am still hungry. Point is, you might need more. Add 4 egg whites to that ish.
  • akern1987
    akern1987 Posts: 288 Member
    Something I've learned recently is that there is so much noise out there around diet culture that it's hard to really know what's what. I follow a number of dieticians, nutritionists and am also part of a doctor monitored weight loss program. From what I've been told and observed here's the deal....Protein is king when it comes to satiety, muscle recovery and slow/steady FAT loss (if you're ok losing weight because you are losing muscle...go off, I'm not really about that, I'm not interested in losing water/muscle just to make the number go down).
    Obviously, you should enjoy your food however you like to enjoy it. If you're not a meat eater, there are plenty of plant based proteins out there, if you're a vegetarian, that doesn't mean you don't also need protein in your diet. Based on my current successes and education, I know for me that I'm shooting to hit at least 100g of protein per day (between 20-30g per meal and snack). I don't eat a meat/egg/fish heavy diet (but I do enjoy all of those things)....honestly, it's all about combining macros to crush hunger and stay satisfied. All meals and snacks should be a combo of protein, fiber and healthy fats....take that however you like.
  • nossmf
    nossmf Posts: 10,782 Member
    7-yr zombie thread. *grabs bag of popcorn to watch all the new posters itching to take sides*
  • Corina1143
    Corina1143 Posts: 3,453 Member
    Yep. Got my coffee cup full. Ready to read.

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