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Ketogenic overfeeding n=1 experiment by Wittrock
Replies
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Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.4 -
Ok I could do cheese and avocados:)0
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The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.0 -
The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?0 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
He did, which is why I considered the whole thing suspect from a macro focused perspective. There's a long and storied history of nuts making everyone go "wtf?" because they never lead to as much weight gain as one would expect when you overfeed with them.
ETA: I mean actual nuts. Peanuts don't count.1 -
The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
I wish when people did these types of challenges, to see how things would be effected, that they would be smart and baseline calorie data. I know it would take an extra month, but it provides greater validity in the experience. Hell, if you spend more than 10 minutes in the gaining weight section, you will see how little 2k calories is. Hell, half the sedentary women that weigh 100lbs are eating more than that.4 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
He did, which is why I considered the whole thing suspect from a macro focused perspective. There's a long and storied history of nuts making everyone go "wtf?" because they never lead to as much weight gain as one would expect when you overfeed with them.
ETA: I mean actual nuts. Peanuts don't count.
BAW HA HA HA HA HA
"Actual nuts"
#idied2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
He did, which is why I considered the whole thing suspect from a macro focused perspective. There's a long and storied history of nuts making everyone go "wtf?" because they never lead to as much weight gain as one would expect when you overfeed with them.
ETA: I mean actual nuts. Peanuts don't count.
Wait. I don't know this story. I can eat more nuts than I'm led to believe!?2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »wackyfunster wrote: »I would be interested in this as well since I'm trying to gain weight on a low carb diet. It's hard!
Very hard to gain muscle. If you are having trouble hitting your calorie targets you can always add oil/peanut butter/butter (not a big fan of this, but probably necessary if you want to bulk on a ketogenic diet). One cup of olive oil has 2000 calories FWIW. Personally, I don't know of anyone who has gotten good results from a low-carb bulk, but would love to see evidence that it can work.
That's a bit of a myth too. It is harder to gain muscle than if you have elevated insulin, but elevated leucine from a ketogenic diet appears to pick up much of the slack. It may not be quite as good, but its pretty close.
Both leucine and training drive muscle protein synthesis and activate mTOR. The key is protein synthesis to be great than protein degradation (something insulin supports since it's anticatabolic). That would occur at a much higher rate with a higher carb diet; it's why carbs are king of bulk. This is why you have TKD/CKD diets (which aren't always super effective).
I swear, just for *kitten* and giggles I'm going to run my next bulk on a traditional Highlander diet. Funny thing is, it sounds a whole lot like modern lifter food. Milks, cheeses, barley, oats, red meat, fish, kale, and onions and turnips occasionally. Clearly my ancestors were onto something. No wonder they were reported to be far larger than the English and Indians. xD
Don't forget the mead. And the kilt!0 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
I think he did. I think I could do that pretty easily too if I had a bag of nuts while watching a movie.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
He did, which is why I considered the whole thing suspect from a macro focused perspective. There's a long and storied history of nuts making everyone go "wtf?" because they never lead to as much weight gain as one would expect when you overfeed with them.
ETA: I mean actual nuts. Peanuts don't count.
I don't know how true that is. Nuts and cheese are the weight loss brakes among many low carbers. It is easy to eat a lot, which would make it good for an over feeding experiment, IMO. I think cheese and nuts where the main reason I regained some weight. My small bowl of macadamia nuts in the evening was slowly growing over time.
In low carb or ketogenic forums where someone asks, why aren't I losing, the quick responses are often "are you weighing and measuring food?" Especially nuts, cheese, and sometimes coconut oil in BPC.1 -
French_Peasant wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »wackyfunster wrote: »I would be interested in this as well since I'm trying to gain weight on a low carb diet. It's hard!
Very hard to gain muscle. If you are having trouble hitting your calorie targets you can always add oil/peanut butter/butter (not a big fan of this, but probably necessary if you want to bulk on a ketogenic diet). One cup of olive oil has 2000 calories FWIW. Personally, I don't know of anyone who has gotten good results from a low-carb bulk, but would love to see evidence that it can work.
That's a bit of a myth too. It is harder to gain muscle than if you have elevated insulin, but elevated leucine from a ketogenic diet appears to pick up much of the slack. It may not be quite as good, but its pretty close.
Both leucine and training drive muscle protein synthesis and activate mTOR. The key is protein synthesis to be great than protein degradation (something insulin supports since it's anticatabolic). That would occur at a much higher rate with a higher carb diet; it's why carbs are king of bulk. This is why you have TKD/CKD diets (which aren't always super effective).
I swear, just for *kitten* and giggles I'm going to run my next bulk on a traditional Highlander diet. Funny thing is, it sounds a whole lot like modern lifter food. Milks, cheeses, barley, oats, red meat, fish, kale, and onions and turnips occasionally. Clearly my ancestors were onto something. No wonder they were reported to be far larger than the English and Indians. xD
Don't forget the mead. And the kilt!
...and the haggis!1 -
French_Peasant wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »wackyfunster wrote: »I would be interested in this as well since I'm trying to gain weight on a low carb diet. It's hard!
Very hard to gain muscle. If you are having trouble hitting your calorie targets you can always add oil/peanut butter/butter (not a big fan of this, but probably necessary if you want to bulk on a ketogenic diet). One cup of olive oil has 2000 calories FWIW. Personally, I don't know of anyone who has gotten good results from a low-carb bulk, but would love to see evidence that it can work.
That's a bit of a myth too. It is harder to gain muscle than if you have elevated insulin, but elevated leucine from a ketogenic diet appears to pick up much of the slack. It may not be quite as good, but its pretty close.
Both leucine and training drive muscle protein synthesis and activate mTOR. The key is protein synthesis to be great than protein degradation (something insulin supports since it's anticatabolic). That would occur at a much higher rate with a higher carb diet; it's why carbs are king of bulk. This is why you have TKD/CKD diets (which aren't always super effective).
I swear, just for *kitten* and giggles I'm going to run my next bulk on a traditional Highlander diet. Funny thing is, it sounds a whole lot like modern lifter food. Milks, cheeses, barley, oats, red meat, fish, kale, and onions and turnips occasionally. Clearly my ancestors were onto something. No wonder they were reported to be far larger than the English and Indians. xD
Don't forget the mead. And the kilt!
Mead is an English thing. At least as far as this first generation Scot knows......0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »wackyfunster wrote: »I would be interested in this as well since I'm trying to gain weight on a low carb diet. It's hard!
Very hard to gain muscle. If you are having trouble hitting your calorie targets you can always add oil/peanut butter/butter (not a big fan of this, but probably necessary if you want to bulk on a ketogenic diet). One cup of olive oil has 2000 calories FWIW. Personally, I don't know of anyone who has gotten good results from a low-carb bulk, but would love to see evidence that it can work.
That's a bit of a myth too. It is harder to gain muscle than if you have elevated insulin, but elevated leucine from a ketogenic diet appears to pick up much of the slack. It may not be quite as good, but its pretty close.
Both leucine and training drive muscle protein synthesis and activate mTOR. The key is protein synthesis to be great than protein degradation (something insulin supports since it's anticatabolic). That would occur at a much higher rate with a higher carb diet; it's why carbs are king of bulk. This is why you have TKD/CKD diets (which aren't always super effective).
I swear, just for *kitten* and giggles I'm going to run my next bulk on a traditional Highlander diet. Funny thing is, it sounds a whole lot like modern lifter food. Milks, cheeses, barley, oats, red meat, fish, kale, and onions and turnips occasionally. Clearly my ancestors were onto something. No wonder they were reported to be far larger than the English and Indians. xD
Don't forget the mead. And the kilt!
Mead is an English thing. At least as far as this first generation Scot knows......
Agreed, this isn't something that would have been passed down through your family in recent centuries; the Highland diet is what the Scots who were living a herding lifestyle on overly marginal agricultural land could have raised and consumed in the medieval (and earlier) era--really tough cold-hardy grains in limited quantities, lots of mutton and beef and game, limited vegetables, some berries, and priceless, precious honey from the miles and miles of heather on the highland moors. The Celts and Vikings (and of course Anglo Saxons, as we know from Beowulf) venerated honey, and mead technology was widespread from prehistory onward, and was very important through northern Europe. The explosion in trade over time, industrialization, rise of sugar cane in the late middle ages, the Clearances in the Highlands, and the shipping of Gallowmere's ancestors to colonized Ireland and America and assorted other penal colonies would have been the nail in the coffin for mead in Scotland, but I think it pretty much fell out of favor everywhere for several centuries until just recently there has been a mead renaissance. Interestingly, heather honey has a uniquely high protein content, to the effect that ancient Scots said a mead drinker is as strong as a meat eater. Okay, I am done being a nerd for now.
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VintageFeline wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
He did, which is why I considered the whole thing suspect from a macro focused perspective. There's a long and storied history of nuts making everyone go "wtf?" because they never lead to as much weight gain as one would expect when you overfeed with them.
ETA: I mean actual nuts. Peanuts don't count.
Wait. I don't know this story. I can eat more nuts than I'm led to believe!?
If I remember right, some nuts (almonds in particular) have a fair number of calories we don't process. Depending on if you're using the most recent USDA info or not, you can be off by up to 30% in your calorie logging. (Don't quote me on this though, I'm going off memory and don't have a source on hand.)0 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
Well, that's sort of cheating a bit, though, depending on the nut eaten. A lot of that doesn't get absorbed at all.0 -
chocolate_owl wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesnt do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
He did, which is why I considered the whole thing suspect from a macro focused perspective. There's a long and storied history of nuts making everyone go "wtf?" because they never lead to as much weight gain as one would expect when you overfeed with them.
ETA: I mean actual nuts. Peanuts don't count.
Wait. I don't know this story. I can eat more nuts than I'm led to believe!?
If I remember right, some nuts (almonds in particular) have a fair number of calories we don't process. Depending on if you're using the most recent USDA info or not, you can be off by up to 30% in your calorie logging. (Don't quote me on this though, I'm going off memory and don't have a source on hand.)
We're having the same remembering thing.
I have binged on almonds, pistachios, and walnuts without having much scale impact from said binges.
Macadamia nuts might be a nut that is more readily processed. I do recall seeing that the amount we don't absorb seems to vary per nut.
I will add that I was in one of my lovely IBS flare periods when these binges occurred and was processing (or not) everything very quickly.0 -
French_Peasant wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »wackyfunster wrote: »I would be interested in this as well since I'm trying to gain weight on a low carb diet. It's hard!
Very hard to gain muscle. If you are having trouble hitting your calorie targets you can always add oil/peanut butter/butter (not a big fan of this, but probably necessary if you want to bulk on a ketogenic diet). One cup of olive oil has 2000 calories FWIW. Personally, I don't know of anyone who has gotten good results from a low-carb bulk, but would love to see evidence that it can work.
That's a bit of a myth too. It is harder to gain muscle than if you have elevated insulin, but elevated leucine from a ketogenic diet appears to pick up much of the slack. It may not be quite as good, but its pretty close.
Both leucine and training drive muscle protein synthesis and activate mTOR. The key is protein synthesis to be great than protein degradation (something insulin supports since it's anticatabolic). That would occur at a much higher rate with a higher carb diet; it's why carbs are king of bulk. This is why you have TKD/CKD diets (which aren't always super effective).
I swear, just for *kitten* and giggles I'm going to run my next bulk on a traditional Highlander diet. Funny thing is, it sounds a whole lot like modern lifter food. Milks, cheeses, barley, oats, red meat, fish, kale, and onions and turnips occasionally. Clearly my ancestors were onto something. No wonder they were reported to be far larger than the English and Indians. xD
Don't forget the mead. And the kilt!
Mead is an English thing. At least as far as this first generation Scot knows......
Agreed, this isn't something that would have been passed down through your family in recent centuries; the Highland diet is what the Scots who were living a herding lifestyle on overly marginal agricultural land could have raised and consumed in the medieval (and earlier) era--really tough cold-hardy grains in limited quantities, lots of mutton and beef and game, limited vegetables, some berries, and priceless, precious honey from the miles and miles of heather on the highland moors. The Celts and Vikings (and of course Anglo Saxons, as we know from Beowulf) venerated honey, and mead technology was widespread from prehistory onward, and was very important through northern Europe. The explosion in trade over time, industrialization, rise of sugar cane in the late middle ages, the Clearances in the Highlands, and the shipping of Gallowmere's ancestors to colonized Ireland and America and assorted other penal colonies would have been the nail in the coffin for mead in Scotland, but I think it pretty much fell out of favor everywhere for several centuries until just recently there has been a mead renaissance. Interestingly, heather honey has a uniquely high protein content, to the effect that ancient Scots said a mead drinker is as strong as a meat eater. Okay, I am done being a nerd for now.
Don't forget the Kail. Literally all of the kail. Yes, it's kail. Those who spell it as kale deserve to have the Dinnie stones dropped on them.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesn't do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
Well, that's sort of cheating a bit, though, depending on the nut eaten. A lot of that doesn't get absorbed at all.
We could say that about any food with fibre then. It's sort of cheating if it has fibre because it slows digestion? How well you cook meat and at what temperature will affect digestion too. Raw vs cooked veggies...
I understand what you are saying, but unless it is a really large caloric difference, it doesn't mean much. It's interesting but it's sort of majoring in the minors.
And yeah, Sam Feltham, who did the 5000 kcal challenge ate close to 3000 kcal per day in walnuts, pecans and almonds.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesn't do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
Well, that's sort of cheating a bit, though, depending on the nut eaten. A lot of that doesn't get absorbed at all.
We could say that about any food with fibre then. It's sort of cheating if it has fibre because it slows digestion? How well you cook meat and at what temperature will affect digestion too. Raw vs cooked veggies...
It's interesting but it's sort of like majoring in the minors.
I think the cheating comes from the guy eating 2k-3k of nuts and then saying "see you can eat way above TDEE on keto and not gain". That seems to not be quite accurate or should I say it seems misleading.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesn't do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
Well, that's sort of cheating a bit, though, depending on the nut eaten. A lot of that doesn't get absorbed at all.
We could say that about any food with fibre then. It's sort of cheating if it has fibre because it slows digestion? How well you cook meat and at what temperature will affect digestion too. Raw vs cooked veggies...
I understand what you are saying, but unless it is a really large caloric difference, it doesn't mean much. It's interesting but it's sort of majoring in the minors.
And yeah, Sam Feltham, who did the 5000 kcal challenge ate close to 3000 kcal per day in walnuts, pecans and almonds.
No, it's not fiber that affects the mechanism of calories absorbed with nuts. It's the structure of the cell walls that inhibits the absorption of the fat, IIRC. The fiber in them is a separate issue.
This isn't majoring in the minors when you're effectively taking in up to 30% less calories than you think you are (depending on the nut).
This is NOT thermic effect here.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesn't do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
Well, that's sort of cheating a bit, though, depending on the nut eaten. A lot of that doesn't get absorbed at all.
We could say that about any food with fibre then. It's sort of cheating if it has fibre because it slows digestion? How well you cook meat and at what temperature will affect digestion too. Raw vs cooked veggies...
I understand what you are saying, but unless it is a really large caloric difference, it doesn't mean much. It's interesting but it's sort of majoring in the minors.
And yeah, Sam Feltham, who did the 5000 kcal challenge ate close to 3000 kcal per day in walnuts, pecans and almonds.
No, it's not fiber that affects the mechanism of calories absorbed with nuts. It's the structure of the cell walls that inhibits the absorption of the fat, IIRC. The fiber in them is a separate issue.
This isn't majoring in the minors when you're effectively taking in up to 30% less calories than you think you are (depending on the nut).
This is NOT thermic effect here.
It would also explain why switching from peanut butter to almond butter has stalled my lean bulk before.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesn't do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
Well, that's sort of cheating a bit, though, depending on the nut eaten. A lot of that doesn't get absorbed at all.
We could say that about any food with fibre then. It's sort of cheating if it has fibre because it slows digestion? How well you cook meat and at what temperature will affect digestion too. Raw vs cooked veggies...
I understand what you are saying, but unless it is a really large caloric difference, it doesn't mean much. It's interesting but it's sort of majoring in the minors.
And yeah, Sam Feltham, who did the 5000 kcal challenge ate close to 3000 kcal per day in walnuts, pecans and almonds.
No, it's not fiber that affects the mechanism of calories absorbed with nuts. It's the structure of the cell walls that inhibits the absorption of the fat, IIRC. The fiber in them is a separate issue.
This isn't majoring in the minors when you're effectively taking in up to 30% less calories than you think you are (depending on the nut).
This is NOT thermic effect here.
It would also explain why switching from peanut butter to almond butter has stalled my lean bulk before.
From what I remember, almonds have the strongest cell walls and the highest level of calories not absorbed.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »wackyfunster wrote: »I would be interested in this as well since I'm trying to gain weight on a low carb diet. It's hard!
Very hard to gain muscle. If you are having trouble hitting your calorie targets you can always add oil/peanut butter/butter (not a big fan of this, but probably necessary if you want to bulk on a ketogenic diet). One cup of olive oil has 2000 calories FWIW. Personally, I don't know of anyone who has gotten good results from a low-carb bulk, but would love to see evidence that it can work.
That's a bit of a myth too. It is harder to gain muscle than if you have elevated insulin, but elevated leucine from a ketogenic diet appears to pick up much of the slack. It may not be quite as good, but its pretty close.
Both leucine and training drive muscle protein synthesis and activate mTOR. The key is protein synthesis to be great than protein degradation (something insulin supports since it's anticatabolic). That would occur at a much higher rate with a higher carb diet; it's why carbs are king of bulk. This is why you have TKD/CKD diets (which aren't always super effective).
I swear, just for *kitten* and giggles I'm going to run my next bulk on a traditional Highlander diet. Funny thing is, it sounds a whole lot like modern lifter food. Milks, cheeses, barley, oats, red meat, fish, kale, and onions and turnips occasionally. Clearly my ancestors were onto something. No wonder they were reported to be far larger than the English and Indians. xD
Don't forget the mead. And the kilt!
Mead is an English thing. At least as far as this first generation Scot knows......
Agreed, this isn't something that would have been passed down through your family in recent centuries; the Highland diet is what the Scots who were living a herding lifestyle on overly marginal agricultural land could have raised and consumed in the medieval (and earlier) era--really tough cold-hardy grains in limited quantities, lots of mutton and beef and game, limited vegetables, some berries, and priceless, precious honey from the miles and miles of heather on the highland moors. The Celts and Vikings (and of course Anglo Saxons, as we know from Beowulf) venerated honey, and mead technology was widespread from prehistory onward, and was very important through northern Europe. The explosion in trade over time, industrialization, rise of sugar cane in the late middle ages, the Clearances in the Highlands, and the shipping of Gallowmere's ancestors to colonized Ireland and America and assorted other penal colonies would have been the nail in the coffin for mead in Scotland, but I think it pretty much fell out of favor everywhere for several centuries until just recently there has been a mead renaissance. Interestingly, heather honey has a uniquely high protein content, to the effect that ancient Scots said a mead drinker is as strong as a meat eater. Okay, I am done being a nerd for now.
Don't forget the Kail. Literally all of the kail. Yes, it's kail. Those who spell it as kale deserve to have the Dinnie stones dropped on them.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »wackyfunster wrote: »I would be interested in this as well since I'm trying to gain weight on a low carb diet. It's hard!
Very hard to gain muscle. If you are having trouble hitting your calorie targets you can always add oil/peanut butter/butter (not a big fan of this, but probably necessary if you want to bulk on a ketogenic diet). One cup of olive oil has 2000 calories FWIW. Personally, I don't know of anyone who has gotten good results from a low-carb bulk, but would love to see evidence that it can work.
That's a bit of a myth too. It is harder to gain muscle than if you have elevated insulin, but elevated leucine from a ketogenic diet appears to pick up much of the slack. It may not be quite as good, but its pretty close.
Both leucine and training drive muscle protein synthesis and activate mTOR. The key is protein synthesis to be great than protein degradation (something insulin supports since it's anticatabolic). That would occur at a much higher rate with a higher carb diet; it's why carbs are king of bulk. This is why you have TKD/CKD diets (which aren't always super effective).
I swear, just for *kitten* and giggles I'm going to run my next bulk on a traditional Highlander diet. Funny thing is, it sounds a whole lot like modern lifter food. Milks, cheeses, barley, oats, red meat, fish, kale, and onions and turnips occasionally. Clearly my ancestors were onto something. No wonder they were reported to be far larger than the English and Indians. xD
Don't forget the mead. And the kilt!
Mead is an English thing. At least as far as this first generation Scot knows......
Agreed, this isn't something that would have been passed down through your family in recent centuries; the Highland diet is what the Scots who were living a herding lifestyle on overly marginal agricultural land could have raised and consumed in the medieval (and earlier) era--really tough cold-hardy grains in limited quantities, lots of mutton and beef and game, limited vegetables, some berries, and priceless, precious honey from the miles and miles of heather on the highland moors. The Celts and Vikings (and of course Anglo Saxons, as we know from Beowulf) venerated honey, and mead technology was widespread from prehistory onward, and was very important through northern Europe. The explosion in trade over time, industrialization, rise of sugar cane in the late middle ages, the Clearances in the Highlands, and the shipping of Gallowmere's ancestors to colonized Ireland and America and assorted other penal colonies would have been the nail in the coffin for mead in Scotland, but I think it pretty much fell out of favor everywhere for several centuries until just recently there has been a mead renaissance. Interestingly, heather honey has a uniquely high protein content, to the effect that ancient Scots said a mead drinker is as strong as a meat eater. Okay, I am done being a nerd for now.
Don't forget the Kail. Literally all of the kail. Yes, it's kail. Those who spell it as kale deserve to have the Dinnie stones dropped on them.
I thought thistles and stinging nettles were the preferred Highland greens.
Nettles are pretty much the best green ever.
0 -
I love nuts! But I'm not going to put myself forth to test out this theory.... I completely avoid them as i overeat them every single time!0
-
leanjogreen18 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesn't do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
Well, that's sort of cheating a bit, though, depending on the nut eaten. A lot of that doesn't get absorbed at all.
We could say that about any food with fibre then. It's sort of cheating if it has fibre because it slows digestion? How well you cook meat and at what temperature will affect digestion too. Raw vs cooked veggies...
It's interesting but it's sort of like majoring in the minors.
I think the cheating comes from the guy eating 2k-3k of nuts and then saying "see you can eat way above TDEE on keto and not gain". That seems to not be quite accurate or should I say it seems misleading.
He was eating way above TDEE and not gaining on ketos, so it is accurate to say "see you can eat way above TDEE on keto and not gain" for him. I don't think it's misleading - that would imply it was untrue.
I really don't know much about nut digestibility. It's never been something I looked into. Doing a quick search now I found this:
http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/do-nuts-have-fewer-calories-than-we-thought.html
{"However, scientists say the results from the recent study on almonds demonstrate that the Atwater factor system of calculating the calorie content of certain foods groups, namely nuts, may not be entirely accurate. Although this recent study looked specifically at almonds, researchers believe the system may be a poor predictor of the energy content of all nuts and may possibly be a poor predictor of the calorie content of whole grains and peanuts as well. Scientists speculate that the rigid structure of the almond's cell membranes (and possibly the cell membranes of other plants) could lock in a portion of the fat, preventing it from being fully digested and absorbed. This may be due to the fact that the membrane that contains fiber encases the cell wall, and fiber isn't digested and therefore passes through the gastrointestinal tract unabsorbed"
And an interesting blog on the topic: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/the-hidden-truths-about-calories/
It appears one can eat 170 kcals of almonds and only have 128 kcals of it available for digestion. That's a 25% difference. Not a big deal for the typical person who has a snack of a couple of hundred calories of nuts. For Feltham, who ate 5000 kcals total, with about 2700-2800 kcals coming from nuts (a 1000 of those from almonds) that could be 500-750 kcals that were not digestible. It could have contributed to his not gaining while eating soooo much. Probably one of many factors.
Reading this stuff makes me feel better about having a cup of pistachios for lunch a few days per week. It's like a keto bonus. Free food. Woohoo! 2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I love nuts! But I'm not going to put myself forth to test out this theory.... I completely avoid them as i overeat them every single time!
Same. Just cannot be trusted. Yet not having them around doesn't bother me in the least.0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I love nuts! But I'm not going to put myself forth to test out this theory.... I completely avoid them as i overeat them every single time!
Same. Just cannot be trusted. Yet not having them around doesn't bother me in the least.
Out of sight, out of mind
2 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »leanjogreen18 wrote: »The nuts too. Easily 1000kcal with nuts.Well, on day 8 he is now a 147 lb man instead of 148. That surprised me I thought he'd be up a bit and not over a pound below where he started.
Not really surprising. What I find surprising is that for some reason, my 3 heaviest days of the week are the morning after my low carb days and my lowest are the mornings after my carbs are the highest. Haven't figured that one out, lol. Although, it could be the ice cream.
I watched the first 4 days and it seems interesting. It should be noted, that guy is lean as hell, so calorie partitioning will definitely be on his side.
What I am interested in is seeing how it would play out at the 3 week mark. Even though, it can be debated that may not exactly be enough time. I know weight loss, I tend to get better trend analysis with 4 to 6 weeks.
LOL I don't think he'd make 4 to 6 weeks, although I agree that it would have been nice to see. He was either struggling to eat today, or is good at struggling to eat. You can tell this is a guy who has never had issues with food - he doesn't know how to overeat. LOL The guy needs more cheese and bacon.
I am surprised he doesn't do cheese much. I'd be eating blocks of Kerry gold. But i guess he does it to minimize protein.
I still don't think a guy they fit and who works out that much will maintain at 2k. I suspect he is closer to 3k like most of the males on here. Watching almost all the videos, his workouts tend to be fairly long. The one day he was gone for 2 hours, grant it, i recognize there was some travel time.
I agree. My guess is just under 3k. He might get by on 2k though. The guy is definitely in touch with his hunger and fullness cues.
Didn't that other guy you referenced that did this eat like 2k or 3k in nuts alone?
Well, that's sort of cheating a bit, though, depending on the nut eaten. A lot of that doesn't get absorbed at all.
We could say that about any food with fibre then. It's sort of cheating if it has fibre because it slows digestion? How well you cook meat and at what temperature will affect digestion too. Raw vs cooked veggies...
It's interesting but it's sort of like majoring in the minors.
I think the cheating comes from the guy eating 2k-3k of nuts and then saying "see you can eat way above TDEE on keto and not gain". That seems to not be quite accurate or should I say it seems misleading.
He was eating way above TDEE and not gaining on ketos, so it is accurate to say "see you can eat way above TDEE on keto and not gain" for him. I don't think it's misleading - that would imply it was untrue.
I really don't know much about nut digestibility. It's never been something I looked into. Doing a quick search now I found this:
http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/do-nuts-have-fewer-calories-than-we-thought.html
{"However, scientists say the results from the recent study on almonds demonstrate that the Atwater factor system of calculating the calorie content of certain foods groups, namely nuts, may not be entirely accurate. Although this recent study looked specifically at almonds, researchers believe the system may be a poor predictor of the energy content of all nuts and may possibly be a poor predictor of the calorie content of whole grains and peanuts as well. Scientists speculate that the rigid structure of the almond's cell membranes (and possibly the cell membranes of other plants) could lock in a portion of the fat, preventing it from being fully digested and absorbed. This may be due to the fact that the membrane that contains fiber encases the cell wall, and fiber isn't digested and therefore passes through the gastrointestinal tract unabsorbed"
And an interesting blog on the topic: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/the-hidden-truths-about-calories/
It appears one can eat 170 kcals of almonds and only have 128 kcals of it available for digestion. That's a 25% difference. Not a big deal for the typical person who has a snack of a couple of hundred calories of nuts. For Feltham, who ate 5000 kcals total, with about 2700-2800 kcals coming from nuts (a 1000 of those from almonds) that could be 500-750 kcals that were not digestible. It could have contributed to his not gaining while eating soooo much. Probably one of many factors.
Reading this stuff makes me feel better about having a cup of pistachios for lunch a few days per week. It's like a keto bonus. Free food. Woohoo!
Not exactly. If a food cannot be converted to energy, then it really doesn't count in your CI. This would be similar if you had a malabsorption issue. Additionally, if the measurement of food is wrong or not adequate because the membrane of a nut is similar to insoluble fiber, then nutrition labels should be updated to reflect that. So if you take ~25% of the calories, + the increases in TEF from doubling protein, it would alter things a bit. Let's also not forget, that we are assuming TDEE. We aren't considering metabolic changes from overfeeding.. especially significant over feeding.0 -
Let me add, it would be interesting to see an over feed attempt if they did it in thr same manor of keto.. meaning not using junk food to hit calories. According to what @nvmomketo posted, it noted similar miscalculations with whole grains.0
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He needs to say you can eat way over TDEE on Almonds (whatever nut it was) not Keto.
I don't recall Attia singling out the nuts as the reason he could eat high calories over TDEE but he specified the "Keto diet".
Nuts are a part of Keto but to me the distinction should be made.
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