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Detox/Cleanse
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jessiferrrb wrote: »kk_inprogress wrote: »kk_inprogress wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think the detox/cleanse things are just snake oil....a waste of money. Its no coincidence that these detox/cleanse regimes include not consuming toxins (fast food, alcohol, caffeine, etc). All it does is sell you the idea that some special tea or colon cleansing herb is doing the detox when actually it's the pause in consuming toxins and allowing your body's natural systems to catch up that is doing all the work.
While I agree with you that detox/cleanses are a waste of money scam... I'm curious at your comment seeming to indicate that fast food, alcohol, and caffeine are toxins. What specifically is toxic about these substances?
Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc.
Natural, non-processed foods are full of chemicals which are also toxins. Should I not eat an apple because cyanide?
First time I've ever seen anyone argue that alcohol is no more toxic than an apple........beggars belief. Besides the trace cyanide is in the apple seeds which hardly anyone actually eats..I certainly don't eat apple seeds.
The point is that your body has every thing it needs to "cleanse" any "toxins" you may ingest. You do not need to drink a tea, or swallow a pill, or stick something to the bottom of your feet for this to happen. If your body was not doing it, you would be in immediate need of a doctor, not a tea.
Why are you preaching to the choir? I distinctly remember calling these products "snake oil" and a waste of money.
You're the one claiming there are any "toxins" to be scared of in the first place. Which there aren't.
Er, no I didn't claim there were any toxins "to be scared of." I said that it's no coincidence that these detox products require users to abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food so that people think it is the product doing the detoxifying when it fact it is their own body catching up.
ok, but i don't think that anyone is arguing with most of that. but i think it's the notion that your body is full of toxins from fast food, caffeine, etc. that people are arguing against.
A notion that I did NOT espouse in any way. I was asked to list what could possibly be toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. So I did. I never for a second said that we're all laden with toxins. It was all about what these products tell people (suckers) to do whilst taking their products.
So, you didn't say this?
"Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc."
How is a person supposed to interpret that?!?
Ok, I said that these detox diets tell people to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and fast food...as "toxins" I am asked what could possibly be toxic? So I answer the question with what the detox company would say... i thought it was a dumb question which is why I asked if they were serious.
So asking you what specifically is toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food is a dumb question?
You still don't seem to understand that toxicity is based upon dosage. None of the things you listed, in and of itself, is toxic.
Yes it's a dumb question. Because the poster probably knew the answer or could easily find them for him/herself. As I said, I listed what the detox companies push. I understand toxicity thank you very much for your concern.
I am the poster who asked you the "dumb question". I truly don't understand what you mean when you say that you listed what the detox companies push. Can you clarify, because you seem to be implying that we all understand what you mean and I don't think we do.
Do you think fast food is toxic?
All fast food? In what dosage?
What specific ingredient in fast food is toxic? Is this ingredient in every fast food item?
You knows what's toxic? Drano.
Above is the Drano quote....wasn't me.
Yeah, a joke I made in response to you initial comment in another thread.
This one:
It's true, I'd only eat fast food if it was the last food left on the planet. What's your point? That it's impossible to have different rules for oneself vs others? I can't eat it therefore I must obviously think no one else should be able to either? I can't smoke pot doesn't mean I think it should be delegalised. I can't be around air freshener and perfumes...doesn't mean I think they should be banned. You guys are taking what I was saying as purely in relation to how I live my life personally and assuming I'd apply the same standards to everyone else. Meh.
you're applying a very different reading to your statements than is apparent. across the board. at best, you're asking people to read your words in a way that assumes knowledge of your internal thought process even when it's pretty much the opposite of what you're actually saying. that's a difficult if not impossible task, so please don't be defensive when people aren't catching your intended meaning. even now, it seems that the simpler explanation is that you are back-peddling a bit on your previous statements, but that's ok too.
if i went back and re-examined some of my initial beliefs about weight loss and nutrition i would have a lot to correct. even if i go back only a few weeks i'd be able to see things more clearly because i'm always reading and learning as i go. that's the way it works for a lot of us, especially on the forums where there's information coming from all sides and types of sources. if (IF) you thought that toxins existed in fast food when you wrote your comments and then learned that they weren't, that's awesome! then this whole mfp forum endeavor is serving its purpose and educating people as well as providing an astounding plethora of reaction gifs.
Don't we all have the same issue of not knowing a person's internal thought processes? I didn't/don't think there were/are toxins in fast food, but fast food is toxic to me because I have a rare medical condition. I can see how that would cause confusion so I'm not overly bothered by that. I did slip into the "you" vs "I" on last food on planet but that because it's how my Dr said it to me so that's how I remember it....again can see how that would cause confusion. I am sure I will change my opinions on some things over time...I like to learn new info so nothing is an open and shut case with me.
then you should of disclosed said medical condition on page one and not labeled said foods as toxic for everyone.[/
That right f?!k HIPAA and privacy laws, you can't post anything until you tell everyone on every thread you're entire medical history! Everyone hearkening and obedience to the great ndj who has spoken. So let it be done.0 -
that right f?!k HIPAA and privacy laws, you can't post anything until you tell everyone on every thread you're entire medical history! Everyone hearkening and obedience to the great ndj who has spoken. So let it be done.
HIPAA laws (and other guidelines for privacy) don't even apply when it comes to self-disclosures in online conversations.
And yes, if someone has a particular medical issue or history that leads to why they publicly state a food is a poison or the equivalent of drinking Drano, their personal circumstances are important to putting that in context.
You're free not to share the issues, but if you don't share anything at all then people will tend to think you're saying it is that way for *everyone* instead of what you meant, that it was just bad for you personally.7 -
Macy, I'm very much with you. Please don't worry that some are not prepared to listen. That they can't comprehend what you have said. The problem is theirs, not yours.0
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Macy, I'm very much with you. Please don't worry that some are not prepared to listen. That they can't comprehend what you have said. The problem is theirs, not yours.
You're right that I can't fully comprehend @Macy9336. I've been upfront about that -- it's hard to tell when she is using what she calls "sarcastic hyperbole" and when she actually means what she is writing.6 -
Macy look - no matter what you say now, in an attempt to explain your comments early on in the thread as either sarcastic hyperbole, responding to questions as if you were one of those detox companies (which doesn't even make sense since your comment stating "toxins such as caffeine, alchohol and fast food" was the first comment in the thread, not a response to someone's question), or specific to your own personal medical conditions - it just isn't going to be a productive discussion.
You've been an active participant in these boards lately, particularly in some of the debate topics, and you've been challenged on vetting your sources, your emphatic claims about toxins, your comparisons of fast food to consuming Draino, etc time and again. I understand that you have a disability that makes communication challenging, but if that is the case, maybe it is time to consider if being an active participant in debates on a spirited internet forum is the best thing for you, if it causes this much defensiveness and such a strong emotional reaction. That in and of itself can't be good for your brain (physiologically or emotionally) to be trying to defend your own words and justify your opinions when the responses you are providing now, make just about as much sense as the ones you provided initially. It just doesn't seem like anything positive is going to come out of this discussion, and I urge you to take a step back and consider disengaging from this thread and maybe others. You obviously have the right not to do that and to continue participating, but if you were my spouse - I would probably be trying to steer you toward more productive uses of your energy.
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think the detox/cleanse things are just snake oil....a waste of money. Its no coincidence that these detox/cleanse regimes include not consuming toxins (fast food, alcohol, caffeine, etc). All it does is sell you the idea that some special tea or colon cleansing herb is doing the detox when actually it's the pause in consuming toxins and allowing your body's natural systems to catch up that is doing all the work.
While I agree with you that detox/cleanses are a waste of money scam... I'm curious at your comment seeming to indicate that fast food, alcohol, and caffeine are toxins. What specifically is toxic about these substances?
Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc.
Natural, non-processed foods are full of chemicals which are also toxins. Should I not eat an apple because cyanide?
First time I've ever seen anyone argue that alcohol is no more toxic than an apple........beggars belief. Besides the trace cyanide is in the apple seeds which hardly anyone actually eats..I certainly don't eat apple seeds.
The point is that your body has every thing it needs to "cleanse" any "toxins" you may ingest. You do not need to drink a tea, or swallow a pill, or stick something to the bottom of your feet for this to happen. If your body was not doing it, you would be in immediate need of a doctor, not a tea.
Why are you preaching to the choir? I distinctly remember calling these products "snake oil" and a waste of money.
You're the one claiming there are any "toxins" to be scared of in the first place. Which there aren't.
Er, no I didn't claim there were any toxins "to be scared of." I said that it's no coincidence that these detox products require users to abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food so that people think it is the product doing the detoxifying when it fact it is their own body catching up.
ok, but i don't think that anyone is arguing with most of that. but i think it's the notion that your body is full of toxins from fast food, caffeine, etc. that people are arguing against.
A notion that I did NOT espouse in any way. I was asked to list what could possibly be toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. So I did. I never for a second said that we're all laden with toxins. It was all about what these products tell people (suckers) to do whilst taking their products.
So, you didn't say this?
"Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc."
How is a person supposed to interpret that?!?
Ok, I said that these detox diets tell people to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and fast food...as "toxins" I am asked what could possibly be toxic? So I answer the question with what the detox company would say... i thought it was a dumb question which is why I asked if they were serious.
Holy backpedal, Batman. You seriously expect us to now believe you weren't saying all those things you listed are toxic?
Yes I do. Because if you read the thread all I said was that part of the selling strategy of the detox companies is to tell people to "abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food" which is what is written as instructions for use on a lot of these detox programs...I said they say that specifically so people think they are being "detoxified" when in fact their body does all the work. Then, I was specifically asked to list what could be considered toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. I was thinking it was a joke question, which is why I asked if they were serious. Then I gave them what they asked for...the reasons why some people think they are toxic. Then you all jump in, not reading the whole thread and make some assumption that what I am reporting is somehow my personal view.
Yeah there is no way you were writing all of those posts to tell us what the "detox" companies are trying to tell us. It came across loud and clear that you think those things are toxic, and that's why you argued so hard for them, and had all of those specific examples you tried to push on everyone. Then you expect us to believe your whole ignorance is bliss post was to the people who think detoxes are a cure all, but the people you were arguing with were specifically telling you detoxes are garbage, and you don't have toxins in your body? You know that doesn't make sense right? I mean was there actually anybody on this whole post at that time that said anything about detoxes being a good thing?
? Go read my first post..which was incidentally, the first post on this thread after the OP. I said that detoxes were snake oil and a waste of money...so it makes no sense to say that I was arguing "so hard" with people who were also saying detoxes are garbage. Why would I argue against my own opinion?
I only posted specifics because I was asked and I quote "what specifically is toxic about these substances?" Which set me back...hence my "seriously?" comment...I at first didn't want to answer because I don't think they're toxic and it's clear from my first post I was trashing detoxes...but I thought, what the hey, maybe they just want to know why people who buy detoxes view these things as toxic. Thus the sarcastic hyperbole in my posts about "highly toxic" and "your heart stops" and "if it's not a toxin why do they call it intoxication?" it was all sarcasm.
So when you wrote: "Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc." that was the opposite of what you thought?
Are you doing this on all the debate threads or just this one? Because now I don't know how to read your comments on other threads here. I see what looks like "sarcastic hyperbole" in many of your posts and now I don't know how to tell when you mean what you write and when you don't.
I wrote that as an exaggeration of the properties of the substances in an attempt to mimic detox company hype. Because it's true that for example caffeine is addictive..but it's a very mild type of addiction where you get a headache and move on. These detox companies take facts and then inflate them to create fear....like "addictive chemical" makes it sound like it's crack or something...which it isn't.
Doing what on all the threads? Trying to ensure I am not misunderstood? Yes. Yes I am. If you're not sure what I'm trying to get at on a specific thread, please feel free to say something...like hold up do you really mean such and such?
I was asking if you were using sarcastic hyperbole that didn't reflect your actual thoughts in multiple threads or just here. I understand you're saying you didn't mean what you said over multiple posts here, but I still have no idea how to tell whether you mean something or don't.
I guess it isn't that important -- I mean, you're not writing specifically for me. But it makes it confusing to engage with you in debates when I can't tell when something is your actual position and something is sarcastic hyperbole that is the opposite of what you actually think.
To be honest, I can't remember if I am or not. My memory also got jacked up by the TBI. You'd have to actually ask me on the spot.
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HIPAA and privacy laws, you can't post anything until you tell everyone on every thread you're entire medical history! Everyone hearkening and obedience to the great ndj who has spoken. So let it be done.
Macy, does your TBI lead to anger issues or shortness of temper? I think it's time to step away.
HIPAA doesn't apply, because you're talking about yourself and are free to disclose or not. It's your information to share.
Look, it's just the internet, this thread has gone badly, you know you have issues, just let it go. I'm not the debater I used to be thanks to my brain tumor, and I've learned to live with that. There will be no operating on it unless there is motor function impairment, so I live with the cognitive shortfalls. Life is too short to get this bothered by people on the internet. I think any serious accident would have shown you that.
I say this, reaching out to you, hoping to stop this, because it's turned ugly.
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janejellyroll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think the detox/cleanse things are just snake oil....a waste of money. Its no coincidence that these detox/cleanse regimes include not consuming toxins (fast food, alcohol, caffeine, etc). All it does is sell you the idea that some special tea or colon cleansing herb is doing the detox when actually it's the pause in consuming toxins and allowing your body's natural systems to catch up that is doing all the work.
While I agree with you that detox/cleanses are a waste of money scam... I'm curious at your comment seeming to indicate that fast food, alcohol, and caffeine are toxins. What specifically is toxic about these substances?
Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc.
Natural, non-processed foods are full of chemicals which are also toxins. Should I not eat an apple because cyanide?
First time I've ever seen anyone argue that alcohol is no more toxic than an apple........beggars belief. Besides the trace cyanide is in the apple seeds which hardly anyone actually eats..I certainly don't eat apple seeds.
The point is that your body has every thing it needs to "cleanse" any "toxins" you may ingest. You do not need to drink a tea, or swallow a pill, or stick something to the bottom of your feet for this to happen. If your body was not doing it, you would be in immediate need of a doctor, not a tea.
Why are you preaching to the choir? I distinctly remember calling these products "snake oil" and a waste of money.
You're the one claiming there are any "toxins" to be scared of in the first place. Which there aren't.
Er, no I didn't claim there were any toxins "to be scared of." I said that it's no coincidence that these detox products require users to abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food so that people think it is the product doing the detoxifying when it fact it is their own body catching up.
ok, but i don't think that anyone is arguing with most of that. but i think it's the notion that your body is full of toxins from fast food, caffeine, etc. that people are arguing against.
A notion that I did NOT espouse in any way. I was asked to list what could possibly be toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. So I did. I never for a second said that we're all laden with toxins. It was all about what these products tell people (suckers) to do whilst taking their products.
So, you didn't say this?
"Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc."
How is a person supposed to interpret that?!?
Ok, I said that these detox diets tell people to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and fast food...as "toxins" I am asked what could possibly be toxic? So I answer the question with what the detox company would say... i thought it was a dumb question which is why I asked if they were serious.
Holy backpedal, Batman. You seriously expect us to now believe you weren't saying all those things you listed are toxic?
Yes I do. Because if you read the thread all I said was that part of the selling strategy of the detox companies is to tell people to "abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food" which is what is written as instructions for use on a lot of these detox programs...I said they say that specifically so people think they are being "detoxified" when in fact their body does all the work. Then, I was specifically asked to list what could be considered toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. I was thinking it was a joke question, which is why I asked if they were serious. Then I gave them what they asked for...the reasons why some people think they are toxic. Then you all jump in, not reading the whole thread and make some assumption that what I am reporting is somehow my personal view.
Yeah there is no way you were writing all of those posts to tell us what the "detox" companies are trying to tell us. It came across loud and clear that you think those things are toxic, and that's why you argued so hard for them, and had all of those specific examples you tried to push on everyone. Then you expect us to believe your whole ignorance is bliss post was to the people who think detoxes are a cure all, but the people you were arguing with were specifically telling you detoxes are garbage, and you don't have toxins in your body? You know that doesn't make sense right? I mean was there actually anybody on this whole post at that time that said anything about detoxes being a good thing?
? Go read my first post..which was incidentally, the first post on this thread after the OP. I said that detoxes were snake oil and a waste of money...so it makes no sense to say that I was arguing "so hard" with people who were also saying detoxes are garbage. Why would I argue against my own opinion?
I only posted specifics because I was asked and I quote "what specifically is toxic about these substances?" Which set me back...hence my "seriously?" comment...I at first didn't want to answer because I don't think they're toxic and it's clear from my first post I was trashing detoxes...but I thought, what the hey, maybe they just want to know why people who buy detoxes view these things as toxic. Thus the sarcastic hyperbole in my posts about "highly toxic" and "your heart stops" and "if it's not a toxin why do they call it intoxication?" it was all sarcasm.
So when you wrote: "Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc." that was the opposite of what you thought?
Are you doing this on all the debate threads or just this one? Because now I don't know how to read your comments on other threads here. I see what looks like "sarcastic hyperbole" in many of your posts and now I don't know how to tell when you mean what you write and when you don't.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »kk_inprogress wrote: »kk_inprogress wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think the detox/cleanse things are just snake oil....a waste of money. Its no coincidence that these detox/cleanse regimes include not consuming toxins (fast food, alcohol, caffeine, etc). All it does is sell you the idea that some special tea or colon cleansing herb is doing the detox when actually it's the pause in consuming toxins and allowing your body's natural systems to catch up that is doing all the work.
While I agree with you that detox/cleanses are a waste of money scam... I'm curious at your comment seeming to indicate that fast food, alcohol, and caffeine are toxins. What specifically is toxic about these substances?
Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc.
Natural, non-processed foods are full of chemicals which are also toxins. Should I not eat an apple because cyanide?
First time I've ever seen anyone argue that alcohol is no more toxic than an apple........beggars belief. Besides the trace cyanide is in the apple seeds which hardly anyone actually eats..I certainly don't eat apple seeds.
The point is that your body has every thing it needs to "cleanse" any "toxins" you may ingest. You do not need to drink a tea, or swallow a pill, or stick something to the bottom of your feet for this to happen. If your body was not doing it, you would be in immediate need of a doctor, not a tea.
Why are you preaching to the choir? I distinctly remember calling these products "snake oil" and a waste of money.
You're the one claiming there are any "toxins" to be scared of in the first place. Which there aren't.
Er, no I didn't claim there were any toxins "to be scared of." I said that it's no coincidence that these detox products require users to abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food so that people think it is the product doing the detoxifying when it fact it is their own body catching up.
ok, but i don't think that anyone is arguing with most of that. but i think it's the notion that your body is full of toxins from fast food, caffeine, etc. that people are arguing against.
A notion that I did NOT espouse in any way. I was asked to list what could possibly be toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. So I did. I never for a second said that we're all laden with toxins. It was all about what these products tell people (suckers) to do whilst taking their products.
So, you didn't say this?
"Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc."
How is a person supposed to interpret that?!?
Ok, I said that these detox diets tell people to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and fast food...as "toxins" I am asked what could possibly be toxic? So I answer the question with what the detox company would say... i thought it was a dumb question which is why I asked if they were serious.
Holy backpedal, Batman. You seriously expect us to now believe you weren't saying all those things you listed are toxic?
Yes I do. Because if you read the thread all I said was that part of the selling strategy of the detox companies is to tell people to "abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food" which is what is written as instructions for use on a lot of these detox programs...I said they say that specifically so people think they are being "detoxified" when in fact their body does all the work. Then, I was specifically asked to list what could be considered toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. I was thinking it was a joke question, which is why I asked if they were serious. Then I gave them what they asked for...the reasons why some people think they are toxic. Then you all jump in, not reading the whole thread and make some assumption that what I am reporting is somehow my personal view.
Yeah there is no way you were writing all of those posts to tell us what the "detox" companies are trying to tell us. It came across loud and clear that you think those things are toxic, and that's why you argued so hard for them, and had all of those specific examples you tried to push on everyone. Then you expect us to believe your whole ignorance is bliss post was to the people who think detoxes are a cure all, but the people you were arguing with were specifically telling you detoxes are garbage, and you don't have toxins in your body? You know that doesn't make sense right? I mean was there actually anybody on this whole post at that time that said anything about detoxes being a good thing?
? Go read my first post..which was incidentally, the first post on this thread after the OP. I said that detoxes were snake oil and a waste of money...so it makes no sense to say that I was arguing "so hard" with people who were also saying detoxes are garbage. Why would I argue against my own opinion?
I only posted specifics because I was asked and I quote "what specifically is toxic about these substances?" Which set me back...hence my "seriously?" comment...I at first didn't want to answer because I don't think they're toxic and it's clear from my first post I was trashing detoxes...but I thought, what the hey, maybe they just want to know why people who buy detoxes view these things as toxic. Thus the sarcastic hyperbole in my posts about "highly toxic" and "your heart stops" and "if it's not a toxin why do they call it intoxication?" it was all sarcasm.
I can be very snarky, but this is an entirely serious question. Do you still view fast food as the equivalent of drinking Drano, then?
I never said that so how can I have that view? I think you are confusing me with someone else?
No, it was definitely you.
Well it would be the equivalent of drinking a bottle of drain TO ME. That's because I have MCS and I if I eat fast food I puke my guts out due to my personal chemical sensitivities. But that doesn't mean I think fast food is toxic TO EVERYONE.
Does your husband also have MCS? I believe you said he was puking his guts up at Disney World as well.
No, he has a hiatal hernia and no gall bladder. Different issues, same result.
Having just recovered from surgery to correct a very large hiatal hernia (and no gallbladder also) I can attest to the fact that too much food, not supposed "toxins" are what causes stomach pain and vomiting with a hiatal hernia. The lack of a gallbladder gives you the runs if you eat too much fat without balancing it with fiber. It does not cause vomiting.
I'm not sure how your personal experience applies to the entire world or why you think you're medically qualified to make such a broad statement.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think the detox/cleanse things are just snake oil....a waste of money. Its no coincidence that these detox/cleanse regimes include not consuming toxins (fast food, alcohol, caffeine, etc). All it does is sell you the idea that some special tea or colon cleansing herb is doing the detox when actually it's the pause in consuming toxins and allowing your body's natural systems to catch up that is doing all the work.
While I agree with you that detox/cleanses are a waste of money scam... I'm curious at your comment seeming to indicate that fast food, alcohol, and caffeine are toxins. What specifically is toxic about these substances?
Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc.
Natural, non-processed foods are full of chemicals which are also toxins. Should I not eat an apple because cyanide?
First time I've ever seen anyone argue that alcohol is no more toxic than an apple........beggars belief. Besides the trace cyanide is in the apple seeds which hardly anyone actually eats..I certainly don't eat apple seeds.
The point is that your body has every thing it needs to "cleanse" any "toxins" you may ingest. You do not need to drink a tea, or swallow a pill, or stick something to the bottom of your feet for this to happen. If your body was not doing it, you would be in immediate need of a doctor, not a tea.
Why are you preaching to the choir? I distinctly remember calling these products "snake oil" and a waste of money.
You're the one claiming there are any "toxins" to be scared of in the first place. Which there aren't.
Er, no I didn't claim there were any toxins "to be scared of." I said that it's no coincidence that these detox products require users to abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food so that people think it is the product doing the detoxifying when it fact it is their own body catching up.
ok, but i don't think that anyone is arguing with most of that. but i think it's the notion that your body is full of toxins from fast food, caffeine, etc. that people are arguing against.
A notion that I did NOT espouse in any way. I was asked to list what could possibly be toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. So I did. I never for a second said that we're all laden with toxins. It was all about what these products tell people (suckers) to do whilst taking their products.
So, you didn't say this?
"Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc."
How is a person supposed to interpret that?!?
Ok, I said that these detox diets tell people to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and fast food...as "toxins" I am asked what could possibly be toxic? So I answer the question with what the detox company would say... i thought it was a dumb question which is why I asked if they were serious.
Holy backpedal, Batman. You seriously expect us to now believe you weren't saying all those things you listed are toxic?
Yes I do. Because if you read the thread all I said was that part of the selling strategy of the detox companies is to tell people to "abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food" which is what is written as instructions for use on a lot of these detox programs...I said they say that specifically so people think they are being "detoxified" when in fact their body does all the work. Then, I was specifically asked to list what could be considered toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. I was thinking it was a joke question, which is why I asked if they were serious. Then I gave them what they asked for...the reasons why some people think they are toxic. Then you all jump in, not reading the whole thread and make some assumption that what I am reporting is somehow my personal view.
Yeah there is no way you were writing all of those posts to tell us what the "detox" companies are trying to tell us. It came across loud and clear that you think those things are toxic, and that's why you argued so hard for them, and had all of those specific examples you tried to push on everyone. Then you expect us to believe your whole ignorance is bliss post was to the people who think detoxes are a cure all, but the people you were arguing with were specifically telling you detoxes are garbage, and you don't have toxins in your body? You know that doesn't make sense right? I mean was there actually anybody on this whole post at that time that said anything about detoxes being a good thing?
? Go read my first post..which was incidentally, the first post on this thread after the OP. I said that detoxes were snake oil and a waste of money...so it makes no sense to say that I was arguing "so hard" with people who were also saying detoxes are garbage. Why would I argue against my own opinion?
I only posted specifics because I was asked and I quote "what specifically is toxic about these substances?" Which set me back...hence my "seriously?" comment...I at first didn't want to answer because I don't think they're toxic and it's clear from my first post I was trashing detoxes...but I thought, what the hey, maybe they just want to know why people who buy detoxes view these things as toxic. Thus the sarcastic hyperbole in my posts about "highly toxic" and "your heart stops" and "if it's not a toxin why do they call it intoxication?" it was all sarcasm.
So when you wrote: "Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc." that was the opposite of what you thought?
Are you doing this on all the debate threads or just this one? Because now I don't know how to read your comments on other threads here. I see what looks like "sarcastic hyperbole" in many of your posts and now I don't know how to tell when you mean what you write and when you don't.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »kk_inprogress wrote: »kk_inprogress wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think the detox/cleanse things are just snake oil....a waste of money. Its no coincidence that these detox/cleanse regimes include not consuming toxins (fast food, alcohol, caffeine, etc). All it does is sell you the idea that some special tea or colon cleansing herb is doing the detox when actually it's the pause in consuming toxins and allowing your body's natural systems to catch up that is doing all the work.
While I agree with you that detox/cleanses are a waste of money scam... I'm curious at your comment seeming to indicate that fast food, alcohol, and caffeine are toxins. What specifically is toxic about these substances?
Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc.
Natural, non-processed foods are full of chemicals which are also toxins. Should I not eat an apple because cyanide?
First time I've ever seen anyone argue that alcohol is no more toxic than an apple........beggars belief. Besides the trace cyanide is in the apple seeds which hardly anyone actually eats..I certainly don't eat apple seeds.
The point is that your body has every thing it needs to "cleanse" any "toxins" you may ingest. You do not need to drink a tea, or swallow a pill, or stick something to the bottom of your feet for this to happen. If your body was not doing it, you would be in immediate need of a doctor, not a tea.
Why are you preaching to the choir? I distinctly remember calling these products "snake oil" and a waste of money.
You're the one claiming there are any "toxins" to be scared of in the first place. Which there aren't.
Er, no I didn't claim there were any toxins "to be scared of." I said that it's no coincidence that these detox products require users to abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food so that people think it is the product doing the detoxifying when it fact it is their own body catching up.
ok, but i don't think that anyone is arguing with most of that. but i think it's the notion that your body is full of toxins from fast food, caffeine, etc. that people are arguing against.
A notion that I did NOT espouse in any way. I was asked to list what could possibly be toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. So I did. I never for a second said that we're all laden with toxins. It was all about what these products tell people (suckers) to do whilst taking their products.
So, you didn't say this?
"Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc."
How is a person supposed to interpret that?!?
Ok, I said that these detox diets tell people to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and fast food...as "toxins" I am asked what could possibly be toxic? So I answer the question with what the detox company would say... i thought it was a dumb question which is why I asked if they were serious.
Holy backpedal, Batman. You seriously expect us to now believe you weren't saying all those things you listed are toxic?
Yes I do. Because if you read the thread all I said was that part of the selling strategy of the detox companies is to tell people to "abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food" which is what is written as instructions for use on a lot of these detox programs...I said they say that specifically so people think they are being "detoxified" when in fact their body does all the work. Then, I was specifically asked to list what could be considered toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. I was thinking it was a joke question, which is why I asked if they were serious. Then I gave them what they asked for...the reasons why some people think they are toxic. Then you all jump in, not reading the whole thread and make some assumption that what I am reporting is somehow my personal view.
Yeah there is no way you were writing all of those posts to tell us what the "detox" companies are trying to tell us. It came across loud and clear that you think those things are toxic, and that's why you argued so hard for them, and had all of those specific examples you tried to push on everyone. Then you expect us to believe your whole ignorance is bliss post was to the people who think detoxes are a cure all, but the people you were arguing with were specifically telling you detoxes are garbage, and you don't have toxins in your body? You know that doesn't make sense right? I mean was there actually anybody on this whole post at that time that said anything about detoxes being a good thing?
? Go read my first post..which was incidentally, the first post on this thread after the OP. I said that detoxes were snake oil and a waste of money...so it makes no sense to say that I was arguing "so hard" with people who were also saying detoxes are garbage. Why would I argue against my own opinion?
I only posted specifics because I was asked and I quote "what specifically is toxic about these substances?" Which set me back...hence my "seriously?" comment...I at first didn't want to answer because I don't think they're toxic and it's clear from my first post I was trashing detoxes...but I thought, what the hey, maybe they just want to know why people who buy detoxes view these things as toxic. Thus the sarcastic hyperbole in my posts about "highly toxic" and "your heart stops" and "if it's not a toxin why do they call it intoxication?" it was all sarcasm.
I can be very snarky, but this is an entirely serious question. Do you still view fast food as the equivalent of drinking Drano, then?
I never said that so how can I have that view? I think you are confusing me with someone else?
No, it was definitely you.
Well it would be the equivalent of drinking a bottle of drain TO ME. That's because I have MCS and I if I eat fast food I puke my guts out due to my personal chemical sensitivities. But that doesn't mean I think fast food is toxic TO EVERYONE.
Does your husband also have MCS? I believe you said he was puking his guts up at Disney World as well.
No, he has a hiatal hernia and no gall bladder. Different issues, same result.
Having just recovered from surgery to correct a very large hiatal hernia (and no gallbladder also) I can attest to the fact that too much food, not supposed "toxins" are what causes stomach pain and vomiting with a hiatal hernia. The lack of a gallbladder gives you the runs if you eat too much fat without balancing it with fiber. It does not cause vomiting.
I'm not sure how your personal experience applies to the entire world or why you think you're medically qualified to make such a broad statement.
Maybe she was speaking only for herself and her own medical conditions but because of the way she phrased it, you are inferring that she meant for this to apply broadly to the entire population...?10 -
Macy, I agree with @WinoGelato and @GottaBurnEmAll, I really think it would be best for you to just step away from this thread now. Let it go.5
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
HIPAA and privacy laws, you can't post anything until you tell everyone on every thread you're entire medical history! Everyone hearkening and obedience to the great ndj who has spoken. So let it be done.
Macy, does your TBI lead to anger issues or shortness of temper? I think it's time to step away.
HIPAA doesn't apply, because you're talking about yourself and are free to disclose or not. It's your information to share.
Look, it's just the internet, this thread has gone badly, you know you have issues, just let it go. I'm not the debater I used to be thanks to my brain tumor, and I've learned to live with that. There will be no operating on it unless there is motor function impairment, so I live with the cognitive shortfalls. Life is too short to get this bothered by people on the internet. I think any serious accident would have shown you that.
I say this, reaching out to you, hoping to stop this, because it's turned ugly.
I'd like it to stop too. If people would just take back the whole "you're lying" thing...I haven't lied about a single thing....yeah it's frustrating trying to communicate with me, I get that. But it's also frustrating to BE me and not be able to word things right or read things the way they are meant to be read.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
HIPAA and privacy laws, you can't post anything until you tell everyone on every thread you're entire medical history! Everyone hearkening and obedience to the great ndj who has spoken. So let it be done.
Macy, does your TBI lead to anger issues or shortness of temper? I think it's time to step away.
HIPAA doesn't apply, because you're talking about yourself and are free to disclose or not. It's your information to share.
Look, it's just the internet, this thread has gone badly, you know you have issues, just let it go. I'm not the debater I used to be thanks to my brain tumor, and I've learned to live with that. There will be no operating on it unless there is motor function impairment, so I live with the cognitive shortfalls. Life is too short to get this bothered by people on the internet. I think any serious accident would have shown you that.
I say this, reaching out to you, hoping to stop this, because it's turned ugly.
I'd like it to stop too. If people would just take back the whole "you're lying" thing...I haven't lied about a single thing....yeah it's frustrating trying to communicate with me, I get that. But it's also frustrating to BE me and not be able to word things right or read things the way they are meant to be read.
Unfortunately, we don't get to control what other people think of us. You can, however, choose to let it go and walk away.4 -
I'm just trying so hard to exercise my brain so maybe I can get a job again. I did 20yrs with USAF and it is just demoralising to be discharged disabled. Especially with an invisible illness that half the people think is made up....that you're lying about...because you seem normal at first. I had to teach myself to read again...freaking baby book. Ball, cat the works. Years of effort, and yet I'm still trapped inside a broken brain. It's no good. I'm no good. You're right what was I thinking? I don't belong here. I'm out. Done.0
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
HIPAA and privacy laws, you can't post anything until you tell everyone on every thread you're entire medical history! Everyone hearkening and obedience to the great ndj who has spoken. So let it be done.
Macy, does your TBI lead to anger issues or shortness of temper? I think it's time to step away.
HIPAA doesn't apply, because you're talking about yourself and are free to disclose or not. It's your information to share.
Look, it's just the internet, this thread has gone badly, you know you have issues, just let it go. I'm not the debater I used to be thanks to my brain tumor, and I've learned to live with that. There will be no operating on it unless there is motor function impairment, so I live with the cognitive shortfalls. Life is too short to get this bothered by people on the internet. I think any serious accident would have shown you that.
I say this, reaching out to you, hoping to stop this, because it's turned ugly.
I'd like it to stop too. If people would just take back the whole "you're lying" thing...I haven't lied about a single thing....yeah it's frustrating trying to communicate with me, I get that. But it's also frustrating to BE me and not be able to word things right or read things the way they are meant to be read.
You can't control other people, and how they perceive your actions. You've said what you had to say.
Is being right worth this much trouble? Do you really need other people to acknowledge it?
Part of having a deficit is knowing that life for you is going to suck sometimes and the world isn't going to accommodate you. I don't expect other people, for example, to forgive me for not holding up my end of a debate I enter into, and kick myself sometimes for starting things on here I can't finish. It would be foolish of me to call them out for picking on the lady with the brain tumor when I was silly enough to start something I couldn't finish.
Macy, I understand you've worked hard to be what you were before, but there's life before and life after. This is life after. Make your peace with it. The rest of the world won't make it for you.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think the detox/cleanse things are just snake oil....a waste of money. Its no coincidence that these detox/cleanse regimes include not consuming toxins (fast food, alcohol, caffeine, etc). All it does is sell you the idea that some special tea or colon cleansing herb is doing the detox when actually it's the pause in consuming toxins and allowing your body's natural systems to catch up that is doing all the work.
While I agree with you that detox/cleanses are a waste of money scam... I'm curious at your comment seeming to indicate that fast food, alcohol, and caffeine are toxins. What specifically is toxic about these substances?
Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc.
Natural, non-processed foods are full of chemicals which are also toxins. Should I not eat an apple because cyanide?
First time I've ever seen anyone argue that alcohol is no more toxic than an apple........beggars belief. Besides the trace cyanide is in the apple seeds which hardly anyone actually eats..I certainly don't eat apple seeds.
The point is that your body has every thing it needs to "cleanse" any "toxins" you may ingest. You do not need to drink a tea, or swallow a pill, or stick something to the bottom of your feet for this to happen. If your body was not doing it, you would be in immediate need of a doctor, not a tea.
Why are you preaching to the choir? I distinctly remember calling these products "snake oil" and a waste of money.
You're the one claiming there are any "toxins" to be scared of in the first place. Which there aren't.
Er, no I didn't claim there were any toxins "to be scared of." I said that it's no coincidence that these detox products require users to abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food so that people think it is the product doing the detoxifying when it fact it is their own body catching up.
ok, but i don't think that anyone is arguing with most of that. but i think it's the notion that your body is full of toxins from fast food, caffeine, etc. that people are arguing against.
A notion that I did NOT espouse in any way. I was asked to list what could possibly be toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. So I did. I never for a second said that we're all laden with toxins. It was all about what these products tell people (suckers) to do whilst taking their products.
So, you didn't say this?
"Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc."
How is a person supposed to interpret that?!?
Ok, I said that these detox diets tell people to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and fast food...as "toxins" I am asked what could possibly be toxic? So I answer the question with what the detox company would say... i thought it was a dumb question which is why I asked if they were serious.
Holy backpedal, Batman. You seriously expect us to now believe you weren't saying all those things you listed are toxic?
Yes I do. Because if you read the thread all I said was that part of the selling strategy of the detox companies is to tell people to "abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food" which is what is written as instructions for use on a lot of these detox programs...I said they say that specifically so people think they are being "detoxified" when in fact their body does all the work. Then, I was specifically asked to list what could be considered toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. I was thinking it was a joke question, which is why I asked if they were serious. Then I gave them what they asked for...the reasons why some people think they are toxic. Then you all jump in, not reading the whole thread and make some assumption that what I am reporting is somehow my personal view.
Yeah there is no way you were writing all of those posts to tell us what the "detox" companies are trying to tell us. It came across loud and clear that you think those things are toxic, and that's why you argued so hard for them, and had all of those specific examples you tried to push on everyone. Then you expect us to believe your whole ignorance is bliss post was to the people who think detoxes are a cure all, but the people you were arguing with were specifically telling you detoxes are garbage, and you don't have toxins in your body? You know that doesn't make sense right? I mean was there actually anybody on this whole post at that time that said anything about detoxes being a good thing?
? Go read my first post..which was incidentally, the first post on this thread after the OP. I said that detoxes were snake oil and a waste of money...so it makes no sense to say that I was arguing "so hard" with people who were also saying detoxes are garbage. Why would I argue against my own opinion?
I only posted specifics because I was asked and I quote "what specifically is toxic about these substances?" Which set me back...hence my "seriously?" comment...I at first didn't want to answer because I don't think they're toxic and it's clear from my first post I was trashing detoxes...but I thought, what the hey, maybe they just want to know why people who buy detoxes view these things as toxic. Thus the sarcastic hyperbole in my posts about "highly toxic" and "your heart stops" and "if it's not a toxin why do they call it intoxication?" it was all sarcasm.
So when you wrote: "Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc." that was the opposite of what you thought?
Are you doing this on all the debate threads or just this one? Because now I don't know how to read your comments on other threads here. I see what looks like "sarcastic hyperbole" in many of your posts and now I don't know how to tell when you mean what you write and when you don't.GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »kk_inprogress wrote: »kk_inprogress wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think the detox/cleanse things are just snake oil....a waste of money. Its no coincidence that these detox/cleanse regimes include not consuming toxins (fast food, alcohol, caffeine, etc). All it does is sell you the idea that some special tea or colon cleansing herb is doing the detox when actually it's the pause in consuming toxins and allowing your body's natural systems to catch up that is doing all the work.
While I agree with you that detox/cleanses are a waste of money scam... I'm curious at your comment seeming to indicate that fast food, alcohol, and caffeine are toxins. What specifically is toxic about these substances?
Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc.
Natural, non-processed foods are full of chemicals which are also toxins. Should I not eat an apple because cyanide?
First time I've ever seen anyone argue that alcohol is no more toxic than an apple........beggars belief. Besides the trace cyanide is in the apple seeds which hardly anyone actually eats..I certainly don't eat apple seeds.
The point is that your body has every thing it needs to "cleanse" any "toxins" you may ingest. You do not need to drink a tea, or swallow a pill, or stick something to the bottom of your feet for this to happen. If your body was not doing it, you would be in immediate need of a doctor, not a tea.
Why are you preaching to the choir? I distinctly remember calling these products "snake oil" and a waste of money.
You're the one claiming there are any "toxins" to be scared of in the first place. Which there aren't.
Er, no I didn't claim there were any toxins "to be scared of." I said that it's no coincidence that these detox products require users to abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food so that people think it is the product doing the detoxifying when it fact it is their own body catching up.
ok, but i don't think that anyone is arguing with most of that. but i think it's the notion that your body is full of toxins from fast food, caffeine, etc. that people are arguing against.
A notion that I did NOT espouse in any way. I was asked to list what could possibly be toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. So I did. I never for a second said that we're all laden with toxins. It was all about what these products tell people (suckers) to do whilst taking their products.
So, you didn't say this?
"Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc."
How is a person supposed to interpret that?!?
Ok, I said that these detox diets tell people to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and fast food...as "toxins" I am asked what could possibly be toxic? So I answer the question with what the detox company would say... i thought it was a dumb question which is why I asked if they were serious.
Holy backpedal, Batman. You seriously expect us to now believe you weren't saying all those things you listed are toxic?
Yes I do. Because if you read the thread all I said was that part of the selling strategy of the detox companies is to tell people to "abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food" which is what is written as instructions for use on a lot of these detox programs...I said they say that specifically so people think they are being "detoxified" when in fact their body does all the work. Then, I was specifically asked to list what could be considered toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. I was thinking it was a joke question, which is why I asked if they were serious. Then I gave them what they asked for...the reasons why some people think they are toxic. Then you all jump in, not reading the whole thread and make some assumption that what I am reporting is somehow my personal view.
Yeah there is no way you were writing all of those posts to tell us what the "detox" companies are trying to tell us. It came across loud and clear that you think those things are toxic, and that's why you argued so hard for them, and had all of those specific examples you tried to push on everyone. Then you expect us to believe your whole ignorance is bliss post was to the people who think detoxes are a cure all, but the people you were arguing with were specifically telling you detoxes are garbage, and you don't have toxins in your body? You know that doesn't make sense right? I mean was there actually anybody on this whole post at that time that said anything about detoxes being a good thing?
? Go read my first post..which was incidentally, the first post on this thread after the OP. I said that detoxes were snake oil and a waste of money...so it makes no sense to say that I was arguing "so hard" with people who were also saying detoxes are garbage. Why would I argue against my own opinion?
I only posted specifics because I was asked and I quote "what specifically is toxic about these substances?" Which set me back...hence my "seriously?" comment...I at first didn't want to answer because I don't think they're toxic and it's clear from my first post I was trashing detoxes...but I thought, what the hey, maybe they just want to know why people who buy detoxes view these things as toxic. Thus the sarcastic hyperbole in my posts about "highly toxic" and "your heart stops" and "if it's not a toxin why do they call it intoxication?" it was all sarcasm.
I can be very snarky, but this is an entirely serious question. Do you still view fast food as the equivalent of drinking Drano, then?
I never said that so how can I have that view? I think you are confusing me with someone else?
No, it was definitely you.
Well it would be the equivalent of drinking a bottle of drain TO ME. That's because I have MCS and I if I eat fast food I puke my guts out due to my personal chemical sensitivities. But that doesn't mean I think fast food is toxic TO EVERYONE.
Does your husband also have MCS? I believe you said he was puking his guts up at Disney World as well.
No, he has a hiatal hernia and no gall bladder. Different issues, same result.
Having just recovered from surgery to correct a very large hiatal hernia (and no gallbladder also) I can attest to the fact that too much food, not supposed "toxins" are what causes stomach pain and vomiting with a hiatal hernia. The lack of a gallbladder gives you the runs if you eat too much fat without balancing it with fiber. It does not cause vomiting[/d].
Post Cholecystectomy syndrome does lead to vomiting, it usually clears up a few months after surgery, but a small percentage of patients suffer with it for life.0 -
0 -
No, I'm saying that some haven't since then.Lol, and as kids many complained "why do we need to learn about chemistry? We're NEVER going to use it in real life."
We can see who failed chemistry class here.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Are you saying the last time you studied chemistry was as a kid?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »jessiferrrb wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »quiksylver296 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I think the detox/cleanse things are just snake oil....a waste of money. Its no coincidence that these detox/cleanse regimes include not consuming toxins (fast food, alcohol, caffeine, etc). All it does is sell you the idea that some special tea or colon cleansing herb is doing the detox when actually it's the pause in consuming toxins and allowing your body's natural systems to catch up that is doing all the work.
While I agree with you that detox/cleanses are a waste of money scam... I'm curious at your comment seeming to indicate that fast food, alcohol, and caffeine are toxins. What specifically is toxic about these substances?
Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc.
Natural, non-processed foods are full of chemicals which are also toxins. Should I not eat an apple because cyanide?
First time I've ever seen anyone argue that alcohol is no more toxic than an apple........beggars belief. Besides the trace cyanide is in the apple seeds which hardly anyone actually eats..I certainly don't eat apple seeds.
The point is that your body has every thing it needs to "cleanse" any "toxins" you may ingest. You do not need to drink a tea, or swallow a pill, or stick something to the bottom of your feet for this to happen. If your body was not doing it, you would be in immediate need of a doctor, not a tea.
Why are you preaching to the choir? I distinctly remember calling these products "snake oil" and a waste of money.
You're the one claiming there are any "toxins" to be scared of in the first place. Which there aren't.
Er, no I didn't claim there were any toxins "to be scared of." I said that it's no coincidence that these detox products require users to abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food so that people think it is the product doing the detoxifying when it fact it is their own body catching up.
ok, but i don't think that anyone is arguing with most of that. but i think it's the notion that your body is full of toxins from fast food, caffeine, etc. that people are arguing against.
A notion that I did NOT espouse in any way. I was asked to list what could possibly be toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. So I did. I never for a second said that we're all laden with toxins. It was all about what these products tell people (suckers) to do whilst taking their products.
So, you didn't say this?
"Are you seriously asking this? Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc."
How is a person supposed to interpret that?!?
Ok, I said that these detox diets tell people to abstain from caffeine, alcohol and fast food...as "toxins" I am asked what could possibly be toxic? So I answer the question with what the detox company would say... i thought it was a dumb question which is why I asked if they were serious.
Holy backpedal, Batman. You seriously expect us to now believe you weren't saying all those things you listed are toxic?
Yes I do. Because if you read the thread all I said was that part of the selling strategy of the detox companies is to tell people to "abstain from toxins such as alcohol, caffeine and fast food" which is what is written as instructions for use on a lot of these detox programs...I said they say that specifically so people think they are being "detoxified" when in fact their body does all the work. Then, I was specifically asked to list what could be considered toxic about alcohol, caffeine and fast food. I was thinking it was a joke question, which is why I asked if they were serious. Then I gave them what they asked for...the reasons why some people think they are toxic. Then you all jump in, not reading the whole thread and make some assumption that what I am reporting is somehow my personal view.
Yeah there is no way you were writing all of those posts to tell us what the "detox" companies are trying to tell us. It came across loud and clear that you think those things are toxic, and that's why you argued so hard for them, and had all of those specific examples you tried to push on everyone. Then you expect us to believe your whole ignorance is bliss post was to the people who think detoxes are a cure all, but the people you were arguing with were specifically telling you detoxes are garbage, and you don't have toxins in your body? You know that doesn't make sense right? I mean was there actually anybody on this whole post at that time that said anything about detoxes being a good thing?
? Go read my first post..which was incidentally, the first post on this thread after the OP. I said that detoxes were snake oil and a waste of money...so it makes no sense to say that I was arguing "so hard" with people who were also saying detoxes are garbage. Why would I argue against my own opinion?
I only posted specifics because I was asked and I quote "what specifically is toxic about these substances?" Which set me back...hence my "seriously?" comment...I at first didn't want to answer because I don't think they're toxic and it's clear from my first post I was trashing detoxes...but I thought, what the hey, maybe they just want to know why people who buy detoxes view these things as toxic. Thus the sarcastic hyperbole in my posts about "highly toxic" and "your heart stops" and "if it's not a toxin why do they call it intoxication?" it was all sarcasm.
So when you wrote: "Alcohol is highly toxic and a carcinogen. Caffeine is an addictive chemical. Both alcohol and caffeine are mood altering drugs. Fast food is full of random artificial chemicals which are also toxins...preservatives, flavourings, dyes, trans fats, etc." that was the opposite of what you thought?
Are you doing this on all the debate threads or just this one? Because now I don't know how to read your comments on other threads here. I see what looks like "sarcastic hyperbole" in many of your posts and now I don't know how to tell when you mean what you write and when you don't.
I wrote that as an exaggeration of the properties of the substances in an attempt to mimic detox company hype. Because it's true that for example caffeine is addictive..but it's a very mild type of addiction where you get a headache and move on. These detox companies take facts and then inflate them to create fear....like "addictive chemical" makes it sound like it's crack or something...which it isn't.
Doing what on all the threads? Trying to ensure I am not misunderstood? Yes. Yes I am. If you're not sure what I'm trying to get at on a specific thread, please feel free to say something...like hold up do you really mean such and such?
I was asking if you were using sarcastic hyperbole that didn't reflect your actual thoughts in multiple threads or just here. I understand you're saying you didn't mean what you said over multiple posts here, but I still have no idea how to tell whether you mean something or don't.
I guess it isn't that important -- I mean, you're not writing specifically for me. But it makes it confusing to engage with you in debates when I can't tell when something is your actual position and something is sarcastic hyperbole that is the opposite of what you actually think.
To be honest, I can't remember if I am or not. My memory also got jacked up by the TBI. You'd have to actually ask me on the spot.
If you can't remember what you meant, maybe getting angry at people who also don't know what you meant or were confused by your statements isn't the best approach. I mean, I am going to approach all future discussions with you with this in mind and I'm glad you shared this context. But if even you can't be sure what you meant being angry at people (who don't know you) not knowing what you meant seems really counterproductive.
I realize the default assumption in many online conversations is that everyone is free of memory or communication issues and I'm sorry you got caught up in that assumption. But honestly I am confused that your dual anger -- that we didn't acknowledge your issues but that it somehow violates your privacy for you to share those issues with us. We can't acknowledge what we don't know.
All the best.
8 -
I'm just trying so hard to exercise my brain so maybe I can get a job again. I did 20yrs with USAF and it is just demoralising to be discharged disabled. Especially with an invisible illness that half the people think is made up....that you're lying about...because you seem normal at first. I had to teach myself to read again...freaking baby book. Ball, cat the works. Years of effort, and yet I'm still trapped inside a broken brain. It's no good. I'm no good. You're right what was I thinking? I don't belong here. I'm out. Done.
After following this thread Macy, and having all your frustrations come out, it struck me that you don't realize how far you've come. People take your comments seriously and literally. When you write, your handicap is not at all apparent and that's why people are calling you on your ideas. That should be a great positive for you. Letting people know up front would probably give you a little more slack when you post. I would think the debates on here would actually be a good exercise for you if you approach it right. Teaching yourself to read again has brought you so far. Keep trying and stay calm.3
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