I DO NOT WANT my cake and I DO NOT WANT to eat it too...
Replies
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The only reason people knew about her ED is because they went back and looked at her old posts. I just did the same when you mentioned that she had stated she had an ED in another thread. I only found one post in which she mentioned it and in that exact same post she mentioned being in therapy.
Problem with all forums I suppose. People can only comment on what they know and I imagine some just replied after seeing someone else mention her thread about having an ED but didn't actually see that thread for themselves.
Statements made in the OP made it sound like she has an eating disorder. People responded saying that she might have an eating disorder and she should think about seeing someone about it.
Turns out that she already is seeing someone about it, so the comments were spot on. The comments could have been avoided entirely if she mentioned that fact to begin with.
WHY in the hell should she mention that? She wanted advice on how to politely decline cake on her birthday, not on getting help for an ED that she's already getting help for. It's not appropriate for the question at hand.
Because it's relevant.
If you make a post about avoiding food, and make it sound like you have an eating disorder, you can expect people to comment on it and nudge you towards seeking help.
This is a more extreme example, but if someone put up a post asking how to make a couple of quick bucks for another hit of heroin, would you respond with "it's not appropriate for the question at hand" if someone responds with "you should check into rehab"?
Most people weren't nudging the OP to seek help, they were instructing her to "just eat the cake".
Even now when I re-read the original post all I get is that the OP wants to avoid sugar, fats, and over-processed ingredients. One could certainly argue whether there is any scientific basis for this especially if we're talking about once a year or so - but I really don't get how people get "eating disorder" from that. It sounds like the so-called "clean eating" that a lot of people try doing.
I'm still appalled at all the people insisting that someone should eat something they don't want to eat - (edit to add) ON THEIR BIRTHDAY no less!0 -
The only reason people knew about her ED is because they went back and looked at her old posts. I just did the same when you mentioned that she had stated she had an ED in another thread. I only found one post in which she mentioned it and in that exact same post she mentioned being in therapy.
Problem with all forums I suppose. People can only comment on what they know and I imagine some just replied after seeing someone else mention her thread about having an ED but didn't actually see that thread for themselves.
Statements made in the OP made it sound like she has an eating disorder. People responded saying that she might have an eating disorder and she should think about seeing someone about it.
Turns out that she already is seeing someone about it, so the comments were spot on. The comments could have been avoided entirely if she mentioned that fact to begin with.
WHY in the hell should she mention that? She wanted advice on how to politely decline cake on her birthday, not on getting help for an ED that she's already getting help for. It's not appropriate for the question at hand.
Because it's relevant.
If you make a post about avoiding food, and make it sound like you have an eating disorder, you can expect people to comment on it and nudge you towards seeking help.
This is a more extreme example, but if someone put up a post asking how to make a couple of quick bucks for another hit of heroin, would you respond with "it's not appropriate for the question at hand" if someone responds with "you should check into rehab"?
Most people weren't nudging the OP to seek help, they were instructing her to "just eat the cake".
Even now when I re-read the original post all I get is that the OP wants to avoid sugar, fats, and over-processed ingredients. One could certainly argue whether there is any scientific basis for this especially if we're talking about once a year or so - but I really don't get how people get "eating disorder" from that. It sounds like the so-called "clean eating" that a lot of people try doing.
I'm still appalled at all the people insisting that someone should eat something they don't want to eat - (edit to add) ON THEIR BIRTHDAY no less!
Me too. I too noticed quite a bunch insisting "eat the cake, it won't kill you". I too am puzzled that so many would push someone to eat something they simply don't want. For whatever reason I might not desire cake on my birthday, it's nobodys business to tell me "just eat it, fit it in your budget, work it off tomorrow".0 -
The only reason people knew about her ED is because they went back and looked at her old posts. I just did the same when you mentioned that she had stated she had an ED in another thread. I only found one post in which she mentioned it and in that exact same post she mentioned being in therapy.
Problem with all forums I suppose. People can only comment on what they know and I imagine some just replied after seeing someone else mention her thread about having an ED but didn't actually see that thread for themselves.
Statements made in the OP made it sound like she has an eating disorder. People responded saying that she might have an eating disorder and she should think about seeing someone about it.
Turns out that she already is seeing someone about it, so the comments were spot on. The comments could have been avoided entirely if she mentioned that fact to begin with.
WHY in the hell should she mention that? She wanted advice on how to politely decline cake on her birthday, not on getting help for an ED that she's already getting help for. It's not appropriate for the question at hand.
It was totally appropriate. I didn't read any of her former posts and could instantly tell that there were deep food issues. Some of the comments were overly harsh, but she needed to hear that this was an ED issue, not a weightloss one. In that context, telling somebody to pretend to eat food or provide instruction on how to hide non-eating were pretty harmful and happened within the first 10 posts.0 -
Sorry, I'm not in the habit of enabling people with eating disorders.0
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The only reason people knew about her ED is because they went back and looked at her old posts. I just did the same when you mentioned that she had stated she had an ED in another thread. I only found one post in which she mentioned it and in that exact same post she mentioned being in therapy.
Problem with all forums I suppose. People can only comment on what they know and I imagine some just replied after seeing someone else mention her thread about having an ED but didn't actually see that thread for themselves.
Statements made in the OP made it sound like she has an eating disorder. People responded saying that she might have an eating disorder and she should think about seeing someone about it.
Turns out that she already is seeing someone about it, so the comments were spot on. The comments could have been avoided entirely if she mentioned that fact to begin with.
WHY in the hell should she mention that? She wanted advice on how to politely decline cake on her birthday, not on getting help for an ED that she's already getting help for. It's not appropriate for the question at hand.
It was totally appropriate. I didn't read any of her former posts and could instantly tell that there were deep food issues. Some of the comments were overly harsh, but she needed to hear that this was an ED issue, not a weightloss one. In that context, telling somebody to pretend to eat food or provide instruction on how to hide non-eating were pretty harmful and happened within the first 10 posts.
It's mind-boggling to me that not wanting to eat a specific food is considered to be an ED.
What if this was a vegan wanting to ask about the best way to decline meat at a party? Vegans cut out whole food groups, and I'll bet you not a single person here would have the balls to tell a vegan they have an eating disorder. They'd tell them polite ways to decline meat, not this bullcrap I'm seeing in this thread.0 -
vegans cut out foods because of ethics (or because they are hippies :laugh:) not unwarranted fear of food.0
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vegans cut out foods because of ethics (or because they are hippies :laugh:) not unwarranted fear of food.
So what? They're still cutting out whole groups of foods, and people jump all over the OP because she just doesn't want to eat cake.0 -
vegans cut out foods because of ethics (or because they are hippies :laugh:) not unwarranted fear of food.
So what? They're still cutting out whole groups of foods, and people jump all over the OP because she just doesn't want to eat cake.
Vegans, by and large, have actual rational reasons for avoiding foods. Whether I agree with those reasons is a separate issue.
The OP has no actual rational reason to avoid sugar, let alone fats (which are nutritionally essential). That's why what she has is considered an eating disorder and people get treatment for it. Veganism is not an eating disorder.
The OP HAS an eating disorder.0 -
You don't get addicted to sugar...
People who say that just don't have enough will power and are making excuses....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/
Read the conclusion.
long read but very interesting.
Dang! I just stocked my fridge with Dannon Light and Fit Greek yogurt, guess what the sweetner is....FRUCTOS!
And I thought I was making a good choice because of the high protein and 0% fat. Grrrr!0 -
A thread about cake, that is still going.....
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You don't get addicted to sugar...
People who say that just don't have enough will power and are making excuses....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/
Read the conclusion.
long read but very interesting.
Dang! I just stocked my fridge with Dannon Light and Fit Greek yogurt, guess what the sweetner is....FRUCTOS!
And I thought I was making a good choice because of the high protein and 0% fat. Grrrr!
Foods that are made "fat free" are almost never a good choice. They taste bad when fat is removed, and to make them taste better they generally add sugar. So they taste worse and are less filling.
Fat is good for you.0 -
You don't get addicted to sugar...
People who say that just don't have enough will power and are making excuses....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/
Read the conclusion.
long read but very interesting.
Dang! I just stocked my fridge with Dannon Light and Fit Greek yogurt, guess what the sweetner is....FRUCTOS!
And I thought I was making a good choice because of the high protein and 0% fat. Grrrr!
Foods that are made "fat free" are almost never a good choice. They taste bad when fat is removed, and to make them taste better they generally add sugar. So they taste worse and are less filling.
Fat is good for you.
AMEN,, Since I started using half and half in my morning coffee instead of skim milk, I don't need any sweetener!
Also, yes, I have a problem with sugar.. call it addiction, call it lack of willpower, call me crazy I don't care, but I know that sweets and certain grains can send me into a feeding frenzy. Is it physical? Is it psychological? Beats me, but the truth is I don't HAVE the will power right now to control it so for ME it's better to avoid it all together. Once I get the weight down I'll worry about introducing moderation with certain foods until then, it's better for me to just avoid certain things0 -
A thread about cake, that is still going.....
this is the cake thread that never eeeends, yes it goes on & on my frieeeend0 -
"Umm...actually the new DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders put out by the American Psychiatric Association which gives the standard criteria for the classification of mental disorders) has removed Sex Addiction from its list of disorders. So yes, that logic is correct: there is no longer such a thing as "sex addiction". It is a compulsive behavior.
The DSM-5 does recognize 'gambling addiction' although not 'video game addiction' or 'religion addiction'--labeled as such. Those behaviors may fall under compulsive behaviors but compulsive behavior is NOT the same as an addiction."
The DSM is an evolving document. Whether something is officially included or not does not bestow reality to the diagnosis. Homosexuality used to be listed. Asperger's syndrome was just removed.
Reality is what is out there. Just about anything can become compulsive and unhealthy, including but not limited to exercise, eating, and posting on message boards. It's whatever lights up the pleasure centers in the brain, reinforcing the behavior. For me, that would definitely include cake.0 -
Let me get this straight: jonnythan has decreed that if you avoid a specific food without a "rational" reason you have an eating disorder, is that right? And further, that there is no rational reason to avoid either sugar or fats (even as found in a store bought cake) becuase there are healthy fats and consuming fat is necessary. Is that right? So now I know when I'm at the party and people are pushing cake on me and I say "no thank you" but people keep pushing it and saying "are your sure?" and "how about just a little piece?" that these folks are truly just concerned for my health and worried because I've gone off the deep end into an irrational "fear" of sugar and fat . [Note: while I don't like cake much and I'm not sure what all is even in those store bought ones so I like to avoid them too, the truth is I'm saving my calories for another beer which is, in itself irrational because there is no scientific research that concludes that I should prefer beer over cake but I just do, I can't explain it. It can't be the alcohol content because some people prefer cake over beer and I would even prefer a non-alcholic beer over cake. Some people don't even like beer -beer isn't Paleo for one thing - which I find not only irrational but borders on insanity and, in my perfect world these people would be diangnosed with something]. But back to my cake pushing friends: they've taken the course or somehow or other learned the Secret of What is Rational for Everyone Everywhere and determined that because I'm refusing cake (which is good because a.) they like it b.) it has sugar c.) it has fat d.) it is traditional dammit) I'm not only irrational but have an eating disorder and I must be a non-conformist hippy too-better watch me. So they're trying to help. And because I don't like zucchini and I have no rational reason for not liking it at all this must confirm the eating disorder diagnosis - this is obvious to people? And who determines rationality? Is it jonnythan? Is there a manual or a website where we can check? Are the Paleo people who refuse to eat a single food that didn't exist before the Agricultural Revolution rational? And the medical professionals and organizations who advise limiting sugar? Part of the vast conspiracy?
-edit to fixt typo -0 -
Let me get this straight: jonnythan has decreed that if you avoid a specific food without a "rational" reason you have an eating disorder, is that right?
Nope.
Stopped reading there.0 -
Let me get this straight: jonnythan has decreed that if you avoid a specific food without a "rational" reason you have an eating disorder, is that right?
Nope.
Stopped reading there.
Really? Because you wrote this:"Vegans, by and large, have actual rational reasons for avoiding foods. Whether I agree with those reasons is a separate issue.
The OP has no actual rational reason to avoid sugar, let alone fats (which are nutritionally essential). That's why what she has is considered an eating disorder and people get treatment for it.
So what do you actually mean?0 -
Let me get this straight: jonnythan has decreed that if you avoid a specific food without a "rational" reason you have an eating disorder, is that right? And further, that there is no rational reason to avoid either sugar or fats (even as found in a store bought cake) becuase there are healthy fats and consuming fat is necessary. Is that right? So now I know when I'm at the party and people are pushing cake on me and I say "no thank you" but people keep pushing it and saying "are your sure?" and "how about just a little piece?" that these folks are truly just concerned for my health and worried because I've gone off the deep end into an irrational "fear" of sugar and fat . [Note: while I don't like cake much and I'm not sure what all is even in those store bought ones so I like to avoid them too, the truth is I'm saving my calories for another beer which is, in itself irrational because there is no scientific research that concludes that I should prefer beer over cake but I just do, I can't explain it. It can't be the alcohol content because some people prefer cake over beer and I would even prefer a non-alcholic beer over cake. Some people don't even like beer -beer isn't Paleo for one thing - which I find not only irrational but borders on insanity and, in my perfect world these people would be diangnosed with something]. But back to my cake pushing friends: they've taken the course or somehow or other learned the Secret of What is Rational for Everyone Everywhere and determined that because I'm refusing cake (which is good because a.) they like it b.) it has sugar c.) it has fat d.) it is traditional dammit) I'm not only irrational but have an eating disorder and I must be a non-conformist hippy too-better watch me. So they're trying to help. And because I don't like zucchini and I have no rational reason for not liking it at all this must confirm the eating disorder diagnosis - this is obvious to people? And who determines rationality? Is it jonnythan? Is there a manual or a website where we can check? Are the Paleo people who refuse to eat a single food that didn't exist before the Agricultural Revolution rational? And the medical professionals and organizations who advise limiting sugar? Part of the vast conspiracy?
-edit to fixt typo -
Really? Pretty sure, even without reading, that no one said having a taste preference for one thing over another is irrational, so there goes most of this argument. Pretty sure no one said refusing a piece of cake is irrational, either (and if anyone did, pretty sure it was humor). The reasons why you refuse might be irrational. Not refusing a piece of cake because you don't want to eat the fat and sugar in that piece (like you said, maybe you're saving it for later), but because you fear eating any fat or sugar in any food, ever.
ETA: Given that some fat is essential.0 -
...[Note: while I don't like cake much and I'm not sure what all is even in those store bought ones so I like to avoid them too, the truth is I'm saving my calories for another beer which is, in itself irrational because there is no scientific research that concludes that I should prefer beer over cake but I just do, I can't explain it...
Yup, I made this ^^ point earlier in this thread too. I just so happen to not love cake all that much either. On MY birthday I'd prefer to have another cosmo or shot of sambucca. All this "oh just have the cake, it won't kill you" and "eating disorder" stuff is weird IMO. For whatever reason a person says "no thank you" about their very own body, they should be respected.0 -
Let me get this straight: jonnythan has decreed that if you avoid a specific food without a "rational" reason you have an eating disorder, is that right?
Nope.
Stopped reading there.
Really? Because you wrote this:
____
"Vegans, by and large, have actual rational reasons for avoiding foods. Whether I agree with those reasons is a separate issue.
The OP has no actual rational reason to avoid sugar, let alone fats (which are nutritionally essential). That's why what she has is considered an eating disorder and people get treatment for it."
____
So what do you actually mean?
What he actually means is that the OP *has* a diagnosed disorder and the way she frames her relationship with food is symptomatic of it.
Have you ever been in a conversation where somebody is trying to frame normal drinking behavior as symptomatic of alcoholism? It's something like: "No, I don't *need* alcohol." "Yes, I'm going to drink again." "No, this doesn't indicate that I have an addiction." "Some drinking is normal." "I'm not just saying that because I'm addicted."
You can argue in circles all you want. Maybe you even believe that *any* drinking shows an addiction, I don't know. But, let me lay it out for you:
- Eating the foods you enjoy is healthy.
- Not eating the foods you don't enjoy is healthy
- Limiting the foods you enjoy to reasonable portions is healthy
- Having an eating disorder where food becomes a major driver of what you do in life and causes issues with work/school/social activities/important relationships is not healthy0 -
I have nothing to add but if you would like to donate your birthday cake, I will message you my postal address.0
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The problem with everyone suggestions is to always assume everyone is going to buy you a cake. She didn't know she was going to get a cake, so why would she call her sister to be like: "hey...so that cake you may or may not buy for me...yeah...can it be something else?"
I don't think you were wrong. They had no idea, you had no idea.0 -
- Eating the foods you enjoy is healthy.
- Not eating the foods you don't enjoy is healthy
- Limiting the foods you enjoy to reasonable portions is healthy
- Having an eating disorder where food becomes a major driver of what you do in life and causes issues with work/school/social activities/important relationships is not healthy
I don't disagree with anything here. But I've re-read the original post and I just don't pick up on any of that. All the OP said about it was:I do not eat dessert/packaged or, in my view, 'unhealthy'(sugar, fat and other 'questionable' food-like products)items
From the context, I gathered that she was talking about refined sugar and unhealthy fats which exist in copious quantities in store bought cakes and which many people try to avoid-rightly or wrongly. And, given this context, I was and still am kind of mystified about the responses here. Many people on this thread were giving the advice "just eat the cake" and implying-or I think even saying- that not doing so indicates an unhealthy realtionship with food but somehow giving into societal and peer pressure to eat something because it is "polite" or "expected" even though you do not really want to eat it indicates a healthy relationship with food. And I strongly disagree with that. And these posts with "sugar isn't bad" or "fat is necessary" were mostly just dressed up versions of "just eat the cake". I still don't see how not wanting to eat a store bought cake and avoiding processed sugar and fats (as usually found in pre-packaged desserts) is problematic in any way.0 -
I still don't see how not wanting to eat a store bought cake and avoiding processed sugar and fats (as usually found in pre-packaged desserts) is problematic in any way.
Avoiding processed sugar and fats is highly illogical. Also something like sucrose in an apple = sucrose in a sugar packet0 -
I still don't see how not wanting to eat a store bought cake and avoiding processed sugar and fats (as usually found in pre-packaged desserts) is problematic in any way.
Avoiding processed sugar and fats is highly illogical. Also something like sucrose in an apple = sucrose in a sugar packet
Those cakes are full of hyrdogenated fats, additives,artificial colors and sugars, and the sugar content is very high and the current medical orthodoxy continues to advise limiting sugar. I know plenty of people who would refuse for similar reasons as the OP and none of them have EDs.0 -
Saying, "Since I've changed my lifestyle, I no longer enjoy store bought desserts. I prefer to save my calories for foods that give me more pleasure." is VERY different than saying "I've changed my lifestyle to avoid bad food."0
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Saying, "Since I've changed my lifestyle, I no longer enjoy store bought desserts. I prefer to save my calories for foods that give me more pleasure." is VERY different than saying "I've changed my lifestyle to avoid bad food."
Only if you define lifestyle soley in terms of how you eat. For me, both statements are pretty much true. Although I don't really believe in "'bad" food I avoid or try to plan for situations where I may end up making choices I regret and I plan ahead. It seemed to me that's all the OP was doing. She didn't say she would even refuse to eat the cake; she was asking whether that would be considered rude. I understood her to be planning and trying to come up with an alternative in advance. And I've done the very same things - planned and practiced what to say or do in advance, pre-logged food to help me stick to my eating plan, suggested or brought alternative dishes to events, simply said "no", or said "yes" and didn't worry about it. Maybe I have an eating disorder and didn't know it but these seem like normal things for people who are redefining in some way how they deal with food and eating.
ETA
And I have avoided places and social situations. Sometimes, for example, I wont' go to the birthday celebration in the conference room at work because I know there will be cake and cake pushers there. If it's a close friend I won't miss it but my point is I've changed my behavior to avoid...0 -
Well…I had no idea this would be such a ‘topic’ of discussion. I think I began to feel sorry for the poor birthday cake! LOL!!
Thanks to those that simply answered my question, however I found (as I guess many of you did) the discussion engaging…so many opinions! I thought sarcastic comments like ‘You sound like such a fun person’ were hurtful and unnecessary and some of the other comments I totally agree with too!. For example:: “It's mind-boggling to me that not wanting to eat a specific food is considered to be an ED.” Good idea of just telling my sis-in-law what I would want. Sure seems logical, but I would feel a little ‘weird’ doing just that – love her, but I’m not that close with her. Thanks for all the advice though (and the b-day wishes)
There was sure some ‘debate’ over if my wanting to not have the cake was ED related. Well, I believe it is not. I have NEVER enjoyed typical ‘Safeway-type’ cakes…the icing is way too sweet and leaves an ‘oily’ taste in ones mouth and the cake part is too sweet as well – Not enjoyable for my culinary tastes! If however, I was presented with a homemade cake/dessert or a cake from a ‘real’ bakery (yes…even if it was made with sugar and butter, etc.) I would have a piece It would most likely be small and I probably would not finish it.. (dessert really isn’t ‘my thing’ and yes, I’m still working through my ED too). However, the fact that I would consider having it at all would be considered light years from where my head was at last year.
So, as the drama unfolds…I’m sure you would love to hear that there was a huge fight and that icing, cake and ice cream was flung from one room to the other…sorry, it just didn’t happen!
So, the cake came – and yes, it came from a grocery store –.I just said to myself, ‘just be gracious and appreciative – to which I felt I was. I told her how beautiful the cake looked and how generous she was, etc., I volunteered to serve and cut myself some, ate some of the fruit, talked a lot, pushed it around on my plate, took pictures, etc.., and then when people were up and around I cleaned up the plates and discretely discarded mine in the garbage.
Done.0 -
Is it rude to refuse a piece of my own birthday cake?
My sister-in-law always purchases a store bought cake
for my birthday. I do not eat dessert/packaged or, in my view,
'unhealthy'(sugar, fat and other 'questionable' food-like products)items.
Will it be rude to refuse a piece? What can I say to her when I'm offered a
piece?
Thanks!!
Neither sugar or fat are unhealthy without context and dosage taken into consideration, so your logic is flawed
i was thinking this ...and when you boil sugar down all sugars are pretty much the same ..so I am not sure what "bad" sugar is...
Also, just say that you want a tine piece and eat it ...have less of something else to compensate...0 -
I still don't see how not wanting to eat a store bought cake and avoiding processed sugar and fats (as usually found in pre-packaged desserts) is problematic in any way.
Avoiding processed sugar and fats is highly illogical. Also something like sucrose in an apple = sucrose in a sugar packet
Those cakes are full of hyrdogenated fats, additives,artificial colors and sugars, and the sugar content is very high and the current medical orthodoxy continues to advise limiting sugar. I know plenty of people who would refuse for similar reasons as the OP and none of them have EDs.
so one sliver of a piece is going to adversely affect health.....??? Please....0
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