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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »My unpopular opinion: most people who got fat as children/teens will never maintain a healthy weight, and the best we can hope for is yo yo dieting. The other option is accepting being fat for good. The existence of a few exceptions to this rule doesn't change my opinion. Statistically, it's an obvious fact.
A lot of people have replied to me - sorry for missing it. Just wanted to say it seems like a lot of people got mad and didn't actually read what I initially said. I said "most people." If that's not you, then it wasn't about you. But I think it might be worth looking at why you feel super definsive reading that little blurb. I really don't see a reason it required a response like I got at all.
I also know that I have been the person who got defensive- made all the same kinds of statements in the past "no, wrong, I'm in control, I know everything, etc" and it has made me a lot less able to pretend I know the future.
But on the other hand, if that's how you feel I can't tell you you're wrong. Maybe you're one of the exceptions. I said over and over I wish people luck, but y'all still mad because for some reason you took "most people" personally to mean YOU will gain the weight back and that's upsetting. However that's not what I said, if you actually read what I said. Based on statistics and my own observations, I stand by it. It's not controversial unless you make it controversial.
I didn't take it personally since I wasn't even close to being overweight in my teens. But the odds are still against me keeping my weight loss off permanently. That's not controversial or unpopular here. I think the problem was that your posts seemed to suggest that everyone should assume they will fail. Perhaps that's not what you meant, but if you read the replies it is how it came across. And surely you can see how people could take issue with that.
I don't think people should assume they will fail. But my own outlook is that I am not sure what will happen to myself. I will do my best, and that's all anyone can do. Being sure I would succeed has not helped me in the past, maybe being more wary will help.
I would take "being aware" over "being wary", since the latter carries the potential for a self-fulfilling prophecy and the former simply means not getting complacent without expectations of failure.7 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »My unpopular opinion: most people who got fat as children/teens will never maintain a healthy weight, and the best we can hope for is yo yo dieting. The other option is accepting being fat for good. The existence of a few exceptions to this rule doesn't change my opinion. Statistically, it's an obvious fact.
A lot of people have replied to me - sorry for missing it. Just wanted to say it seems like a lot of people got mad and didn't actually read what I initially said. I said "most people." If that's not you, then it wasn't about you. But I think it might be worth looking at why you feel super definsive reading that little blurb. I really don't see a reason it required a response like I got at all.
I also know that I have been the person who got defensive- made all the same kinds of statements in the past "no, wrong, I'm in control, I know everything, etc" and it has made me a lot less able to pretend I know the future.
But on the other hand, if that's how you feel I can't tell you you're wrong. Maybe you're one of the exceptions. I said over and over I wish people luck, but y'all still mad because for some reason you took "most people" personally to mean YOU will gain the weight back and that's upsetting. However that's not what I said, if you actually read what I said. Based on statistics and my own observations, I stand by it. It's not controversial unless you make it controversial.
I didn't take it personally since I wasn't even close to being overweight in my teens. But the odds are still against me keeping my weight loss off permanently. That's not controversial or unpopular here. I think the problem was that your posts seemed to suggest that everyone should assume they will fail. Perhaps that's not what you meant, but if you read the replies it is how it came across. And surely you can see how people could take issue with that.
I don't think people should assume they will fail. But my own outlook is that I am not sure what will happen to myself. I will do my best, and that's all anyone can do. Being sure I would succeed has not helped me in the past, maybe being more wary will help.
I would take "being aware" over "being wary", since the latter carries the potential for a self-fulfilling prophecy and the former simply means not getting complacent without expectations of failure.
I guess we all have our ways of looking at the world. For me, I am trying to be super honest with myself this time around, and not to have rosy glasses or pretend I can say for sure what will or won't happen in life. It feels the most rational given my experience. I've always been aware of this general phenomenon, but I also always thought "it won't happen to me." Now I am wary.1 -
jseams1234 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »My unpopular opinion: running and lifting weights are not the be-all and end-all of exercises.
Yes, cardio will improve the cardiovascular system and burn calories, but it doesn't have to be running.
Some type of resistance will help maintain lean muscle mass, but it doesn't have to be lifting weights
Weight bearing exercise will help maintain healthy bones, but it doesn't have to be running.
Me, I swim and walk. Pulling my body through the water is great resistance AND cardio at the same time. Swimming also works all of the major muscle groups. Walking is weight bearing and cardio (as long as you keep up a good pace).
I agree that there is more to fitness than running and lifting weights, but I believe that they are at/near the top for optimizing your efforts, ie, I think your cardio fitness ROI for the time spent running and strength benefit ROI for lifting are difficult to match with other exercises.
I actually read a study that said that walking was better because even tho running is one of the best cardio exercises, the injuries you will get...not might...but will get outweigh it's benefits in comparison to walking.
For example I can run 3 miles in 30mins...or I can walk 3 miles in 45mins...
I do both to be frank...run and walk...I lift too...
but I do agree any form of resistance training is amazing....I've seen the results in others who don't lift...
My main goal for running is to push my HR up to a certain level for a sustained period of time, which doesn't happen with walking (walking is still important, I do walk several miles per day, but it is just incidental versus regimented walking for exercise). I do agree the injuries are inevitable with running.
I've seen some women in my neighborhood that do that jangy "powerwalk" and I've seen them actually pass some slower joggers. I imagine their HR is pretty comparable to the typical jogger. They do move. lol
There's one of those around me, and she is incredibly fit... and fast! She's faster than my running pace, I'd wager. I only ever see her on the walking portion of my morning routine as she gets a later start than I do and I've already finished my running portion (I'm currently building my endurance to run the whole 5.5 mile route I do every day).2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »My unpopular opinion: running and lifting weights are not the be-all and end-all of exercises.
Yes, cardio will improve the cardiovascular system and burn calories, but it doesn't have to be running.
Some type of resistance will help maintain lean muscle mass, but it doesn't have to be lifting weights
Weight bearing exercise will help maintain healthy bones, but it doesn't have to be running.
Me, I swim and walk. Pulling my body through the water is great resistance AND cardio at the same time. Swimming also works all of the major muscle groups. Walking is weight bearing and cardio (as long as you keep up a good pace).
I agree that there is more to fitness than running and lifting weights, but I believe that they are at/near the top for optimizing your efforts, ie, I think your cardio fitness ROI for the time spent running and strength benefit ROI for lifting are difficult to match with other exercises.
I actually read a study that said that walking was better because even tho running is one of the best cardio exercises, the injuries you will get...not might...but will get outweigh it's benefits in comparison to walking.
For example I can run 3 miles in 30mins...or I can walk 3 miles in 45mins...
I do both to be frank...run and walk...I lift too...
but I do agree any form of resistance training is amazing....I've seen the results in others who don't lift...
My main goal for running is to push my HR up to a certain level for a sustained period of time, which doesn't happen with walking (walking is still important, I do walk several miles per day, but it is just incidental versus regimented walking for exercise). I do agree the injuries are inevitable with running.
I've seen some women in my neighborhood that do that jangy "powerwalk" and I've seen them actually pass some slower joggers. I imagine their HR is pretty comparable to the typical jogger. They do move. lol
There's one of those around me, and she is incredibly fit... and fast! She's faster than my running pace, I'd wager. I only ever see her on the walking portion of my morning routine as she gets a later start than I do and I've already finished my running portion (I'm currently building my endurance to run the whole 5.5 mile route I do every day).
Makes me think of the Malcolm in the Middle episode. "He's a runner!!!"
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Bry_Lander wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »My unpopular opinion: running and lifting weights are not the be-all and end-all of exercises.
Yes, cardio will improve the cardiovascular system and burn calories, but it doesn't have to be running.
Some type of resistance will help maintain lean muscle mass, but it doesn't have to be lifting weights
Weight bearing exercise will help maintain healthy bones, but it doesn't have to be running.
Me, I swim and walk. Pulling my body through the water is great resistance AND cardio at the same time. Swimming also works all of the major muscle groups. Walking is weight bearing and cardio (as long as you keep up a good pace).
I agree that there is more to fitness than running and lifting weights, but I believe that they are at/near the top for optimizing your efforts, ie, I think your cardio fitness ROI for the time spent running and strength benefit ROI for lifting are difficult to match with other exercises.
I actually read a study that said that walking was better because even tho running is one of the best cardio exercises, the injuries you will get...not might...but will get outweigh it's benefits in comparison to walking.
For example I can run 3 miles in 30mins...or I can walk 3 miles in 45mins...
I do both to be frank...run and walk...I lift too...
but I do agree any form of resistance training is amazing....I've seen the results in others who don't lift...
My main goal for running is to push my HR up to a certain level for a sustained period of time, which doesn't happen with walking (walking is still important, I do walk several miles per day, but it is just incidental versus regimented walking for exercise). I do agree the injuries are inevitable with running.
Maybe likely is a better word than inevitable? The vast majority of running injuries are repetitive motion injuries. A well designed training program where there is variety in the types of runs, strength training to combat muscle imbalances from running, etc will go a long way to prevent injury.
That being said, most runners I know will talk about how they should do mobility work, strength train, vary their runs, etc but it doesn't get done.
Yes, probably not inevitable. I think if you do run a lot, even the most diligent of runners will suffer some sort of injuries, even if it is something minor like blisters from breaking in new shoes, shin splints, minor pulls, or just general knee or ankle pain.lemurcat12 wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »My unpopular opinion: running and lifting weights are not the be-all and end-all of exercises.
Yes, cardio will improve the cardiovascular system and burn calories, but it doesn't have to be running.
Some type of resistance will help maintain lean muscle mass, but it doesn't have to be lifting weights
Weight bearing exercise will help maintain healthy bones, but it doesn't have to be running.
Me, I swim and walk. Pulling my body through the water is great resistance AND cardio at the same time. Swimming also works all of the major muscle groups. Walking is weight bearing and cardio (as long as you keep up a good pace).
I agree that there is more to fitness than running and lifting weights, but I believe that they are at/near the top for optimizing your efforts, ie, I think your cardio fitness ROI for the time spent running and strength benefit ROI for lifting are difficult to match with other exercises.
I actually read a study that said that walking was better because even tho running is one of the best cardio exercises, the injuries you will get...not might...but will get outweigh it's benefits in comparison to walking.
For example I can run 3 miles in 30mins...or I can walk 3 miles in 45mins...
I do both to be frank...run and walk...I lift too...
but I do agree any form of resistance training is amazing....I've seen the results in others who don't lift...
My main goal for running is to push my HR up to a certain level for a sustained period of time, which doesn't happen with walking (walking is still important, I do walk several miles per day, but it is just incidental versus regimented walking for exercise). I do agree the injuries are inevitable with running.
Swimming or elliptical or rowing or walking on a hilly terrain or biking could also get the heart rate up, though.
I do run, however, because I find it one of the most enjoyable exercises, and for me good for mental health, despite the fact that I get injured occasionally.
I'm with you, running is both my church and my psychiatrist's couch
I had to take 5 days off due to foot pain. It wasn't super-painful but I know from experience that if I continued to run and not take a break that it would just get worse. I wasn't too perturbed because I had a good 2.5 month stretch of 6 days per week and the last 3 weeks I was averaging 50mpw.
Anyway, I was back this morning for a super-easy effort (3 miles) and so happy to be back. Even the easy 3 miles elevated my mood considerably. I feel like me again. I really don't what I will do if I ever get injured to the point where I won't be able to run anymore. I tend to suffer from depression and running is the only thing that helps... and running shoes are much cheaper than regular visits to a psychiatrist or meds.6 -
I can't run now. Not that I did much, hiking was my church and therapists couch but I have to be careful with that now too.
But I do think some sort of cardio that gets the heart rate up is important and is why I am just working around my limitations. Again, I could just go, oh well, lifelong degenerative problem, I'll just give up now I can't do the things I love best.
And I can still pick up and put down my dumbbells so that's cool.10 -
VintageFeline wrote: »I can't run now. Not that I did much, hiking was my church and therapists couch but I have to be careful with that now too.
But I do think some sort of cardio that gets the heart rate up is important and is why I am just working around my limitations. Again, I could just go, oh well, lifelong degenerative problem, I'll just give up now I can't do the things I love best.
And I can still pick up and put down my dumbbells so that's cool.
Sorry that you can't do what you love anymore, but happy for you that you still work with what you've got. Eventually we all will have to make adjustments and come to terms with time and illness. I'm sure when that time comes for me, I'll find something else to keep my body moving. The older I get, the more aware I am that will become a reality some day.0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »I can't run now. Not that I did much, hiking was my church and therapists couch but I have to be careful with that now too.
But I do think some sort of cardio that gets the heart rate up is important and is why I am just working around my limitations. Again, I could just go, oh well, lifelong degenerative problem, I'll just give up now I can't do the things I love best.
And I can still pick up and put down my dumbbells so that's cool.
Sorry that you can't do what you love anymore, but happy for you that you still work with what you've got. Eventually we all will have to make adjustments and come to terms with time and illness. I'm sure when that time comes for me, I'll find something else to keep my body moving. The older I get, the more aware I am that will become a reality some day.
Thank you. It may be I can add some things back in once I see the physio but it's hip dysplasia so only going to get worse and I'd like to keep surgery as far off in the distance as possible!
But yep, age will get us all one day.0 -
Bry_Lander wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »Bry_Lander wrote: »My unpopular opinion: running and lifting weights are not the be-all and end-all of exercises.
Yes, cardio will improve the cardiovascular system and burn calories, but it doesn't have to be running.
Some type of resistance will help maintain lean muscle mass, but it doesn't have to be lifting weights
Weight bearing exercise will help maintain healthy bones, but it doesn't have to be running.
Me, I swim and walk. Pulling my body through the water is great resistance AND cardio at the same time. Swimming also works all of the major muscle groups. Walking is weight bearing and cardio (as long as you keep up a good pace).
I agree that there is more to fitness than running and lifting weights, but I believe that they are at/near the top for optimizing your efforts, ie, I think your cardio fitness ROI for the time spent running and strength benefit ROI for lifting are difficult to match with other exercises.
I actually read a study that said that walking was better because even tho running is one of the best cardio exercises, the injuries you will get...not might...but will get outweigh it's benefits in comparison to walking.
For example I can run 3 miles in 30mins...or I can walk 3 miles in 45mins...
I do both to be frank...run and walk...I lift too...
but I do agree any form of resistance training is amazing....I've seen the results in others who don't lift...
My main goal for running is to push my HR up to a certain level for a sustained period of time, which doesn't happen with walking (walking is still important, I do walk several miles per day, but it is just incidental versus regimented walking for exercise). I do agree the injuries are inevitable with running.
Maybe likely is a better word than inevitable? The vast majority of running injuries are repetitive motion injuries. A well designed training program where there is variety in the types of runs, strength training to combat muscle imbalances from running, etc will go a long way to prevent injury.
That being said, most runners I know will talk about how they should do mobility work, strength train, vary their runs, etc but it doesn't get done.
Yes, probably not inevitable. I think if you do run a lot, even the most diligent of runners will suffer some sort of injuries, even if it is something minor like blisters from breaking in new shoes, shin splints, minor pulls, or just general knee or ankle pain.
Totally anecdotal but I found this to be interesting:
My brother and SIL went to Peru with a group of their friends and adult kids. The older generation are all in their early to mid 60's and the younger group were in their 20's. All are fit and exercise regularly. The major hiking trips they took, like up to Machu Picchu, showed a definite difference. The walkers and bikers among them had very few problems with the path and the elevation, the runners among them had major issues and one even had to be carried partway by a porter. None live in an area with high elevation.
Like I said, anecdotal but interesting.
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VintageFeline wrote: »I can't run now. Not that I did much, hiking was my church and therapists couch but I have to be careful with that now too.
But I do think some sort of cardio that gets the heart rate up is important and is why I am just working around my limitations. Again, I could just go, oh well, lifelong degenerative problem, I'll just give up now I can't do the things I love best.
And I can still pick up and put down my dumbbells so that's cool.
Sorry that you can't do what you love anymore, but happy for you that you still work with what you've got. Eventually we all will have to make adjustments and come to terms with time and illness. I'm sure when that time comes for me, I'll find something else to keep my body moving. The older I get, the more aware I am that will become a reality some day.
^This. I know my joints are ticking tomb bombs.
Your attitude is awesome VF.2 -
curiouskate wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
You seem determined to quash any and all optimism or determination to try.
That's my issue with you.
If you think this is my first rodeo, you're mistaken.
I've been dieting off and on since I was 13. I'm going to be 55 in a few weeks. I've lost and regained weight before.
I've been that statistic you're so enamored with.
I know other posters, a couple of them posting in this thread have also been that statistic. All of us are making it work this time around and really, who are you to come traipsing in trying to rain doom and gloom all over us? Why project so? Why not turn around and learn and just have at it and pull yourself together and learn from what went wrong last time?
One of the things I've learned coming to MFP is learning from my past mistakes and moving forward with determinism.
Great. I wish you awesome luck.
I too don't really understand your vociferous need to point out how doomed people are who try to lose weight. How many people don't know that? And how many would be easily discouraged if that's all they ever heard?
The thread is for "unpopular opinions" is it not? Clearly mine is one.
I honestly do wish everyone good luck.
I actually think you're pretty spot on. I know so many people in 'real life' who have lost weight and then regained it again, and again and again. There's so much that goes into maintaining weight loss long term, and then throw in all of life's twists and turns and it's so freakin' hard to stay focused and on plan.
I'm a little over 4 years into maintaining a 50ish pound loss, (so according to a pp I qualify to give advice
), and maintaining for another year or 5 years or 10 years or 20, 30, 40 and possibly 50 more years terrifies me. So many days now I feel burned out and I struggle to stay focused. The mind games are brutal and the further along I go into this process the harder it is to keep at it. I keep mixing things up, to keep my head in the game and I make myself check in here every day, to be around other people who are similarly focused, but it's hard. And exhausting. I would love nothing more than to chuck my stupid food scale out the window and Eat.All.The.Chips.
Gosh, don't I sound chirpy 6 -
OliveGirl128 wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
You seem determined to quash any and all optimism or determination to try.
That's my issue with you.
If you think this is my first rodeo, you're mistaken.
I've been dieting off and on since I was 13. I'm going to be 55 in a few weeks. I've lost and regained weight before.
I've been that statistic you're so enamored with.
I know other posters, a couple of them posting in this thread have also been that statistic. All of us are making it work this time around and really, who are you to come traipsing in trying to rain doom and gloom all over us? Why project so? Why not turn around and learn and just have at it and pull yourself together and learn from what went wrong last time?
One of the things I've learned coming to MFP is learning from my past mistakes and moving forward with determinism.
Great. I wish you awesome luck.
I too don't really understand your vociferous need to point out how doomed people are who try to lose weight. How many people don't know that? And how many would be easily discouraged if that's all they ever heard?
The thread is for "unpopular opinions" is it not? Clearly mine is one.
I honestly do wish everyone good luck.
I actually think you're pretty spot on. I know so many people in 'real life' who have lost weight and then regained it again, and again and again. There's so much that goes into maintaining weight loss long term, and then throw in all of life's twists and turns and it's so freakin' hard to stay focused and on plan.
I'm a little over 4 years into maintaining a 50ish pound loss, (so according to a pp I qualify to give advice ), and maintaining for another year or 5 years or 10 years or 20, 30, 40 and possibly 50 more years terrifies me. So many days now I feel burned out and I struggle to stay focused. The mind games are brutal and the further along I go into this process the harder it is to keep at it. I keep mixing things up, to keep my head in the game and I make myself check in here every day, to be around other people who are similarly focused, but it's hard. And exhausting. I would love nothing more than to chuck my stupid food scale out the window and Eat.All.The.Chips.
Gosh, don't I sound chirpy
It is exhausting staying focused all the time. I don't think I could ever do it. I periodically just say 'to heck with it' and eat whatever (which is often a whole lot of chips and dip). Sometimes for days at a time. It's worth it to me to periodically be hedonistic with food and drink, even knowing that I'll have to diet again to get rid of it.4 -
OliveGirl128 wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
You seem determined to quash any and all optimism or determination to try.
That's my issue with you.
If you think this is my first rodeo, you're mistaken.
I've been dieting off and on since I was 13. I'm going to be 55 in a few weeks. I've lost and regained weight before.
I've been that statistic you're so enamored with.
I know other posters, a couple of them posting in this thread have also been that statistic. All of us are making it work this time around and really, who are you to come traipsing in trying to rain doom and gloom all over us? Why project so? Why not turn around and learn and just have at it and pull yourself together and learn from what went wrong last time?
One of the things I've learned coming to MFP is learning from my past mistakes and moving forward with determinism.
Great. I wish you awesome luck.
I too don't really understand your vociferous need to point out how doomed people are who try to lose weight. How many people don't know that? And how many would be easily discouraged if that's all they ever heard?
The thread is for "unpopular opinions" is it not? Clearly mine is one.
I honestly do wish everyone good luck.
I actually think you're pretty spot on. I know so many people in 'real life' who have lost weight and then regained it again, and again and again. There's so much that goes into maintaining weight loss long term, and then throw in all of life's twists and turns and it's so freakin' hard to stay focused and on plan.
I'm a little over 4 years into maintaining a 50ish pound loss, (so according to a pp I qualify to give advice ), and maintaining for another year or 5 years or 10 years or 20, 30, 40 and possibly 50 more years terrifies me. So many days now I feel burned out and I struggle to stay focused. The mind games are brutal and the further along I go into this process the harder it is to keep at it. I keep mixing things up, to keep my head in the game and I make myself check in here every day, to be around other people who are similarly focused, but it's hard. And exhausting. I would love nothing more than to chuck my stupid food scale out the window and Eat.All.The.Chips.
Gosh, don't I sound chirpy
I totally relate and could have written that myself about 5 years ago (except for me it was 120 lb). When it gets that hard- all it takes is one (or two) life stresses and holding on gets even harder. I currently think this is normal human nature and evidence would suggest most humans experience this as extremely difficult if not impossible. I believe motivation is a finite resource. And sometimes you need it for something else and you lose it for maintaining weight, or you get depressed or any other emotional issue and it becomes very very hard.
I don't think I really had a choice at that point. (Not a popular opinion either lol)
So now I'm back at losing, and rethinking it with a more realistic eye. Am I going to put in 10 hours a week at the gym forever? Honestly? No. I'm not. I know this now. (Just as one example)
And also I have come to the conclusion that even if you end up yo yo dieting, it's still worth it to try again.4 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »OliveGirl128 wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
You seem determined to quash any and all optimism or determination to try.
That's my issue with you.
If you think this is my first rodeo, you're mistaken.
I've been dieting off and on since I was 13. I'm going to be 55 in a few weeks. I've lost and regained weight before.
I've been that statistic you're so enamored with.
I know other posters, a couple of them posting in this thread have also been that statistic. All of us are making it work this time around and really, who are you to come traipsing in trying to rain doom and gloom all over us? Why project so? Why not turn around and learn and just have at it and pull yourself together and learn from what went wrong last time?
One of the things I've learned coming to MFP is learning from my past mistakes and moving forward with determinism.
Great. I wish you awesome luck.
I too don't really understand your vociferous need to point out how doomed people are who try to lose weight. How many people don't know that? And how many would be easily discouraged if that's all they ever heard?
The thread is for "unpopular opinions" is it not? Clearly mine is one.
I honestly do wish everyone good luck.
I actually think you're pretty spot on. I know so many people in 'real life' who have lost weight and then regained it again, and again and again. There's so much that goes into maintaining weight loss long term, and then throw in all of life's twists and turns and it's so freakin' hard to stay focused and on plan.
I'm a little over 4 years into maintaining a 50ish pound loss, (so according to a pp I qualify to give advice ), and maintaining for another year or 5 years or 10 years or 20, 30, 40 and possibly 50 more years terrifies me. So many days now I feel burned out and I struggle to stay focused. The mind games are brutal and the further along I go into this process the harder it is to keep at it. I keep mixing things up, to keep my head in the game and I make myself check in here every day, to be around other people who are similarly focused, but it's hard. And exhausting. I would love nothing more than to chuck my stupid food scale out the window and Eat.All.The.Chips.
Gosh, don't I sound chirpy
It is exhausting staying focused all the time. I don't think I could ever do it. I periodically just say 'to heck with it' and eat whatever (which is often a whole lot of chips and dip). Sometimes for days at a time. It's worth it to me to periodically be hedonistic with food and drink, even knowing that I'll have to diet again to get rid of it.
After my pity post above I did just this and ate several servings of baked lays chips-no regrets lol. I only get groceries every other week though, so it evens out since I won't have any chips until next Tuesday when I get groceries. It felt lovely to eat them right out of the bag though, without measuring out portion sizes, (which I always do with chips).
Ok, pity party over-back at it tomorrow 5 -
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lemurcat12 wrote: »There's no guarantee with WLS either. The stats are better, but I wonder if all else were equal (super serious decision made, some medical support, education, so on) if the stats would be more similar, if we compared like to like. (I also, as mentioned upthread, lost 50 lbs, regained over time, and lost again, and don't think of that as making the first lost worthless or a failure.)
I don't think WLS is the easy way out, but I am bothered by it being promoted as the answer (I guess because I am really leery of serious surgery and making drastic changes to parts of the body when that can be avoided). And given that it STILL requires habit changes over time and not overeating and so on, I don't see why you could not use the tools that are used to be successful at that to be successful at a way that does not require surgery. Unless you think it will be easier in some way.
I don't judge people who have it -- they are them, I am me, and I am not in their place -- but I honestly do not understand making the choice. Not when there are other options, at least (urgent health situations aside).
That's not meant to be antagonistic and I wouldn't raise it with someone who didn't want to talk about it, but I am curious about this sometimes.
It is very drastic and not for everyone. But I have been fat since I was a kid. It took me two years of eating well and excercising just to lose 80 pounds (eating 1400-1500 calories... I'm short). My body does not want to be anywhere close to a healthy BMI. I need a tool not to make it easier, but make it possible.
The surgery will just take away cravings and hunger, making the process faster and regain more unlikely, while also forcing me into 100's which I would never otherwise reach. I've spent enough of my life being fat, which is why I need something drastic to get into the lower 100's. I don't see myself counting calories my whole life-- I've learned life happens and you won't always have the numbers. My daughter needs me now, not 4 years from now.
I followed a blogger who lost over 200 pounds. She was super active like an athlete, got the skin removed and even she gained it back.
I would have excess skin to fix regardless.
I can't speak for everyone. I just don't find WLS easy and for me, I decided it is nessesary to take a more drastic measure so I don't waste my life away hoping to be skinny. It is discouraging to be fat even though you're calorie counting and feel like you're starving!
1 -
sammi_spring wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »There's no guarantee with WLS either. The stats are better, but I wonder if all else were equal (super serious decision made, some medical support, education, so on) if the stats would be more similar, if we compared like to like. (I also, as mentioned upthread, lost 50 lbs, regained over time, and lost again, and don't think of that as making the first lost worthless or a failure.)
I don't think WLS is the easy way out, but I am bothered by it being promoted as the answer (I guess because I am really leery of serious surgery and making drastic changes to parts of the body when that can be avoided). And given that it STILL requires habit changes over time and not overeating and so on, I don't see why you could not use the tools that are used to be successful at that to be successful at a way that does not require surgery. Unless you think it will be easier in some way.
I don't judge people who have it -- they are them, I am me, and I am not in their place -- but I honestly do not understand making the choice. Not when there are other options, at least (urgent health situations aside).
That's not meant to be antagonistic and I wouldn't raise it with someone who didn't want to talk about it, but I am curious about this sometimes.
It is very drastic and not for everyone. But I have been fat since I was a kid. It took me two years of eating well and excercising just to lose 80 pounds (eating 1400-1500 calories... I'm short). My body does not want to be anywhere close to a healthy BMI. I need a tool not to make it easier, but make it possible.
The surgery will just take away cravings and hunger, making the process faster and regain more unlikely, while also forcing me into 100's which I would never otherwise reach. I've spent enough of my life being fat, which is why I need something drastic to get into the lower 100's. I don't see myself counting calories my whole life-- I've learned life happens and you won't always have the numbers. My daughter needs me now, not 4 years from now.
I followed a blogger who lost over 200 pounds. She was super active like an athlete, got the skin removed and even she gained it back.
I would have excess skin to fix regardless.
I can't speak for everyone. I just don't find WLS easy and for me, I decided it is nessesary to take a more drastic measure so I don't waste my life away hoping to be skinny. It is discouraging to be fat even though you're calorie counting and feel like you're starving!
Don't you still have to track calorie intake though, even with WLS? I know several people who've had various WLS procedures done, and they're all more overweight now than what they were before their surgeries. One gained so much weight after her surgery that she's no longer mobile/self- functioning and had to move back in with her parents.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »I can't run now. Not that I did much, hiking was my church and therapists couch but I have to be careful with that now too.
But I do think some sort of cardio that gets the heart rate up is important and is why I am just working around my limitations. Again, I could just go, oh well, lifelong degenerative problem, I'll just give up now I can't do the things I love best.
And I can still pick up and put down my dumbbells so that's cool.
Sorry that you can't do what you love anymore, but happy for you that you still work with what you've got. Eventually we all will have to make adjustments and come to terms with time and illness. I'm sure when that time comes for me, I'll find something else to keep my body moving. The older I get, the more aware I am that will become a reality some day.
^This. I know my joints are ticking tomb bombs.
Your attitude is awesome VF.
Amen!
Couldn't run when younger due to asthma. New inhalers helped a lot and worked up to 2 miles a day (yeah not a lot, but a lot for someone that used to do a mile in 18 mins...lol). Now, after ACL repair decades ago, no cartilage on one side of my right knee. No way to run, as when I've tried it the knee will swell up like crazy. Switch back to my first love of weight lifting....well a SLAP tear and partial rotator cuff tear keeps me from some specific lifts but I keep plowing on with alternatives as best I can.
If I have to continue to modify so be it, I'll figure out a way to keep going.3 -
I had to stop running a few years ago because every time I tried, I had flare ups of my ITB. I really hated it happening. Then, after my last pregnancy I started having increased low back/hip pain. After ruling out other issues with X-Ray, the doctor sent me to physical therapy and they determined I had hypermobility of the sacral-illial joints (where the low spine meets the pelvis). Therapy to strengthen the right muscles and help me know how to get things aligned and keep them there on my own, so I have much fewer flare-ups of the back/hip pain. A nice side effect has been that I'm able to run again without ITB issues! Of course, my running endurance is way down, my best miles are still about 11 or 12 minutes (from 9-10 before), but the fact that I can work on it again makes me super happy.4
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OliveGirl128 wrote: »sammi_spring wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »There's no guarantee with WLS either. The stats are better, but I wonder if all else were equal (super serious decision made, some medical support, education, so on) if the stats would be more similar, if we compared like to like. (I also, as mentioned upthread, lost 50 lbs, regained over time, and lost again, and don't think of that as making the first lost worthless or a failure.)
I don't think WLS is the easy way out, but I am bothered by it being promoted as the answer (I guess because I am really leery of serious surgery and making drastic changes to parts of the body when that can be avoided). And given that it STILL requires habit changes over time and not overeating and so on, I don't see why you could not use the tools that are used to be successful at that to be successful at a way that does not require surgery. Unless you think it will be easier in some way.
I don't judge people who have it -- they are them, I am me, and I am not in their place -- but I honestly do not understand making the choice. Not when there are other options, at least (urgent health situations aside).
That's not meant to be antagonistic and I wouldn't raise it with someone who didn't want to talk about it, but I am curious about this sometimes.
It is very drastic and not for everyone. But I have been fat since I was a kid. It took me two years of eating well and excercising just to lose 80 pounds (eating 1400-1500 calories... I'm short). My body does not want to be anywhere close to a healthy BMI. I need a tool not to make it easier, but make it possible.
The surgery will just take away cravings and hunger, making the process faster and regain more unlikely, while also forcing me into 100's which I would never otherwise reach. I've spent enough of my life being fat, which is why I need something drastic to get into the lower 100's. I don't see myself counting calories my whole life-- I've learned life happens and you won't always have the numbers. My daughter needs me now, not 4 years from now.
I followed a blogger who lost over 200 pounds. She was super active like an athlete, got the skin removed and even she gained it back.
I would have excess skin to fix regardless.
I can't speak for everyone. I just don't find WLS easy and for me, I decided it is nessesary to take a more drastic measure so I don't waste my life away hoping to be skinny. It is discouraging to be fat even though you're calorie counting and feel like you're starving!
Don't you still have to track calorie intake though, even with WLS? I know several people who've had various WLS procedures done, and they're all more overweight now than what they were before their surgeries. One gained so much weight after her surgery that she's no longer mobile/self- functioning and had to move back in with her parents.
Yes you do an because of the WLS it becomes more important to ensure that you are eating enough not just over eating.
WLS forces you to restrict calories to a degree for a time period but it doesn't help with why you over ate...
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Being that I've dealt with clients that have had WLS, and while it helps because of lowering risk factor, many still jump in too fast because they think the results will make them happy. One of my clients thought weight loss surgery would be be great. He lost over 120lbs and now hates his life. He's an owner of a tire and muffler shop and before could hoist tires, move heavy stuff etc. Because he wasn't allowed to do too much resistance training at all, the WLS basically took away a lot of the lean muscle he used to get his job done. He went into depression and not doesn't even show up at work any more because he feels useless. It's a job he used to love and now he can't do what he loves anymore.sammi_spring wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »There's no guarantee with WLS either. The stats are better, but I wonder if all else were equal (super serious decision made, some medical support, education, so on) if the stats would be more similar, if we compared like to like. (I also, as mentioned upthread, lost 50 lbs, regained over time, and lost again, and don't think of that as making the first lost worthless or a failure.)
I don't think WLS is the easy way out, but I am bothered by it being promoted as the answer (I guess because I am really leery of serious surgery and making drastic changes to parts of the body when that can be avoided). And given that it STILL requires habit changes over time and not overeating and so on, I don't see why you could not use the tools that are used to be successful at that to be successful at a way that does not require surgery. Unless you think it will be easier in some way.
I don't judge people who have it -- they are them, I am me, and I am not in their place -- but I honestly do not understand making the choice. Not when there are other options, at least (urgent health situations aside).
That's not meant to be antagonistic and I wouldn't raise it with someone who didn't want to talk about it, but I am curious about this sometimes.
It is very drastic and not for everyone. But I have been fat since I was a kid. It took me two years of eating well and excercising just to lose 80 pounds (eating 1400-1500 calories... I'm short). My body does not want to be anywhere close to a healthy BMI. I need a tool not to make it easier, but make it possible.
The surgery will just take away cravings and hunger, making the process faster and regain more unlikely, while also forcing me into 100's which I would never otherwise reach. I've spent enough of my life being fat, which is why I need something drastic to get into the lower 100's. I don't see myself counting calories my whole life-- I've learned life happens and you won't always have the numbers. My daughter needs me now, not 4 years from now.
I followed a blogger who lost over 200 pounds. She was super active like an athlete, got the skin removed and even she gained it back.
I would have excess skin to fix regardless.
I can't speak for everyone. I just don't find WLS easy and for me, I decided it is nessesary to take a more drastic measure so I don't waste my life away hoping to be skinny. It is discouraging to be fat even though you're calorie counting and feel like you're starving!
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
7 -
This is my observation after reading about how WLS works. There's multiple consultations with doctors, dieticians, and other members of a support team that take a patient through pre-surgery weight loss, the surgery itself, and a period of time after. Most patients will lose weight because of the financial, physical and emotional investment they've made to the process along with the on-going education on how to continue losing on their own and maintaining that loss. Re-gaining the weight usually doesn't happen until they're on their own, and might not happen as often if that support was always available no matter how long ago the surgery.
My belief is that if a person who is candidate for WLS (whether they plan to go that route or not) had that same support system the success rate without surgery rate would be the same as with surgery. If that kind of intensive support system was available to anyone who needs to lose any amount of weight to get into a healthy range the success rate of weight loss maintenance would be significantly higher.
I'm not presenting this as an unpopular opinion, just some thoughts 10 -
This is my observation after reading about how WLS works. There's multiple consultations with doctors, dieticians, and other members of a support team that take a patient through pre-surgery weight loss, the surgery itself, and a period of time after. Most patients will lose weight because of the financial, physical and emotional investment they've made to the process along with the on-going education on how to continue losing on their own and maintaining that loss. Re-gaining the weight usually doesn't happen until they're on their own, and might not happen as often if that support was always available no matter how long ago the surgery.
My belief is that if a person who is candidate for WLS (whether they plan to go that route or not) had that same support system the success rate without surgery rate would be the same as with surgery. If that kind of intensive support system was available to anyone who needs to lose any amount of weight to get into a healthy range the success rate of weight loss maintenance would be significantly higher.
I'm not presenting this as an unpopular opinion, just some thoughts
observation/reading on how it is suppose to work vs reality are starkly different...I can guarantee it.
No matter the "support" or "education" people receive either before WLS, during or after...or for those who are losing without that if they do not take responsibility for what they put in the mouth aka food and quantity of it and apply the knowledge they get then they will always gain the weight back....
those are the facts and the bolded is unpopular I am sure...I will probably get a smack down for it.5 -
This is my observation after reading about how WLS works. There's multiple consultations with doctors, dieticians, and other members of a support team that take a patient through pre-surgery weight loss, the surgery itself, and a period of time after. Most patients will lose weight because of the financial, physical and emotional investment they've made to the process along with the on-going education on how to continue losing on their own and maintaining that loss. Re-gaining the weight usually doesn't happen until they're on their own, and might not happen as often if that support was always available no matter how long ago the surgery.
My belief is that if a person who is candidate for WLS (whether they plan to go that route or not) had that same support system the success rate without surgery rate would be the same as with surgery. If that kind of intensive support system was available to anyone who needs to lose any amount of weight to get into a healthy range the success rate of weight loss maintenance would be significantly higher.
I'm not presenting this as an unpopular opinion, just some thoughts
observation/reading on how it is suppose to work vs reality are starkly different...I can guarantee it.
No matter the "support" or "education" people receive either before WLS, during or after...or for those who are losing without that if they do not take responsibility for what they put in the mouth aka food and quantity of it and apply the knowledge they get then they will always gain the weight back....
those are the facts and the bolded is unpopular I am sure...I will probably get a smack down for it.
No, I think you are dead on! I've seen it with a friend of mine. 300+lbs, WLS, continued to eat as he had before. 300+ pounds today. It's like a reset button and you get a 2nd chance not to do that to yourself. If you're going to eat like a 300 pounder, why suffer through the surgery and recovery?3 -
My belief is that if a person who is candidate for WLS (whether they plan to go that route or not) had that same support system the success rate without surgery rate would be the same as with surgery. If that kind of intensive support system was available to anyone who needs to lose any amount of weight to get into a healthy range the success rate of weight loss maintenance would be significantly higher.
I'm not presenting this as an unpopular opinion, just some thoughts
This is how I tend to think about it too. It's what I meant before when I said that I wondered if the stats would be different, if all else were different.
I also think there's much more pressure (has to be) if you've had WLS to not regain -- many people would no doubt think "this was my big chance and I will have blown all that money, time recovering and the risk of the surgery," etc. Also, I suspect there's some incentive not to overeat if you think it will hurt you/cause damage (different from not actually being able to overeat).
I've seen stats that indicate that people also are more likely to successfully lose if they are told they need to for a medical reason (especially if they get help with the diet part because it is seen as a medical thing), and being at the point where you make the decision to go for WLS has to be a similar incentive. I wouldn't say it's precisely comparable to me, in my late 20s, thinking "man, I really don't want to get a larger size, I need to start paying attention to my diet, maybe tomorrow" over and over again as the years went by. But people like me back then get included in the overall weight loss stats.3 -
This is my observation after reading about how WLS works. There's multiple consultations with doctors, dieticians, and other members of a support team that take a patient through pre-surgery weight loss, the surgery itself, and a period of time after. Most patients will lose weight because of the financial, physical and emotional investment they've made to the process along with the on-going education on how to continue losing on their own and maintaining that loss. Re-gaining the weight usually doesn't happen until they're on their own, and might not happen as often if that support was always available no matter how long ago the surgery.
My belief is that if a person who is candidate for WLS (whether they plan to go that route or not) had that same support system the success rate without surgery rate would be the same as with surgery. If that kind of intensive support system was available to anyone who needs to lose any amount of weight to get into a healthy range the success rate of weight loss maintenance would be significantly higher.
I'm not presenting this as an unpopular opinion, just some thoughts
This is what I think the model for weight loss needs to be. Having weight loss centers that are like bariatric surgery clinics that offer a full range of support and education services to the overweight and obese to oversee weight loss efforts.
I think it should be a medical specialty that you can get referrals to and have full insurance coverage for.
I can dream, can't I?14 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »This is my observation after reading about how WLS works. There's multiple consultations with doctors, dieticians, and other members of a support team that take a patient through pre-surgery weight loss, the surgery itself, and a period of time after. Most patients will lose weight because of the financial, physical and emotional investment they've made to the process along with the on-going education on how to continue losing on their own and maintaining that loss. Re-gaining the weight usually doesn't happen until they're on their own, and might not happen as often if that support was always available no matter how long ago the surgery.
My belief is that if a person who is candidate for WLS (whether they plan to go that route or not) had that same support system the success rate without surgery rate would be the same as with surgery. If that kind of intensive support system was available to anyone who needs to lose any amount of weight to get into a healthy range the success rate of weight loss maintenance would be significantly higher.
I'm not presenting this as an unpopular opinion, just some thoughts
This is what I think the model for weight loss needs to be. Having weight loss centers that are like bariatric surgery clinics that offer a full range of support and education services to the overweight and obese to oversee weight loss efforts.
I think it should be a medical specialty that you can get referrals to and have full insurance coverage for.
I can dream, can't I?
It'd be a lot cheaper than the surgery model.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »This is my observation after reading about how WLS works. There's multiple consultations with doctors, dieticians, and other members of a support team that take a patient through pre-surgery weight loss, the surgery itself, and a period of time after. Most patients will lose weight because of the financial, physical and emotional investment they've made to the process along with the on-going education on how to continue losing on their own and maintaining that loss. Re-gaining the weight usually doesn't happen until they're on their own, and might not happen as often if that support was always available no matter how long ago the surgery.
My belief is that if a person who is candidate for WLS (whether they plan to go that route or not) had that same support system the success rate without surgery rate would be the same as with surgery. If that kind of intensive support system was available to anyone who needs to lose any amount of weight to get into a healthy range the success rate of weight loss maintenance would be significantly higher.
I'm not presenting this as an unpopular opinion, just some thoughts
This is what I think the model for weight loss needs to be. Having weight loss centers that are like bariatric surgery clinics that offer a full range of support and education services to the overweight and obese to oversee weight loss efforts.
I think it should be a medical specialty that you can get referrals to and have full insurance coverage for.
I can dream, can't I?
How many people go to existing places like this and have lasting success?1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »This is my observation after reading about how WLS works. There's multiple consultations with doctors, dieticians, and other members of a support team that take a patient through pre-surgery weight loss, the surgery itself, and a period of time after. Most patients will lose weight because of the financial, physical and emotional investment they've made to the process along with the on-going education on how to continue losing on their own and maintaining that loss. Re-gaining the weight usually doesn't happen until they're on their own, and might not happen as often if that support was always available no matter how long ago the surgery.
My belief is that if a person who is candidate for WLS (whether they plan to go that route or not) had that same support system the success rate without surgery rate would be the same as with surgery. If that kind of intensive support system was available to anyone who needs to lose any amount of weight to get into a healthy range the success rate of weight loss maintenance would be significantly higher.
I'm not presenting this as an unpopular opinion, just some thoughts
This is what I think the model for weight loss needs to be. Having weight loss centers that are like bariatric surgery clinics that offer a full range of support and education services to the overweight and obese to oversee weight loss efforts.
I think it should be a medical specialty that you can get referrals to and have full insurance coverage for.
I can dream, can't I?
How many people go to existing places like this and have lasting success?
What places exist like this staffed by medical personnel that aren't selling some VLCD product, but rather emphasizing behavior modification, forming sustainable habits, and teaching correct calorie counting/energy balance?11 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »This is my observation after reading about how WLS works. There's multiple consultations with doctors, dieticians, and other members of a support team that take a patient through pre-surgery weight loss, the surgery itself, and a period of time after. Most patients will lose weight because of the financial, physical and emotional investment they've made to the process along with the on-going education on how to continue losing on their own and maintaining that loss. Re-gaining the weight usually doesn't happen until they're on their own, and might not happen as often if that support was always available no matter how long ago the surgery.
My belief is that if a person who is candidate for WLS (whether they plan to go that route or not) had that same support system the success rate without surgery rate would be the same as with surgery. If that kind of intensive support system was available to anyone who needs to lose any amount of weight to get into a healthy range the success rate of weight loss maintenance would be significantly higher.
I'm not presenting this as an unpopular opinion, just some thoughts
This is what I think the model for weight loss needs to be. Having weight loss centers that are like bariatric surgery clinics that offer a full range of support and education services to the overweight and obese to oversee weight loss efforts.
I think it should be a medical specialty that you can get referrals to and have full insurance coverage for.
I can dream, can't I?
It'd be a lot cheaper than the surgery model.
But people wouldn't be willing to pay for the simple advice, so there is no profit in it. It's sad that this is the case (from both sides), but people are willing to pay for surgery or extreme weight loss programs more often that paying for information on moderating their lifestyle.4
This discussion has been closed.
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