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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
You seem determined to quash any and all optimism or determination to try.
That's my issue with you.
If you think this is my first rodeo, you're mistaken.
I've been dieting off and on since I was 13. I'm going to be 55 in a few weeks. I've lost and regained weight before.
I've been that statistic you're so enamored with.
I know other posters, a couple of them posting in this thread have also been that statistic. All of us are making it work this time around and really, who are you to come traipsing in trying to rain doom and gloom all over us? Why project so? Why not turn around and learn and just have at it and pull yourself together and learn from what went wrong last time?
One of the things I've learned coming to MFP is learning from my past mistakes and moving forward with determinism.19 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
You seem determined to quash any and all optimism or determination to try.
That's my issue with you.
If you think this is my first rodeo, you're mistaken.
I've been dieting off and on since I was 13. I'm going to be 55 in a few weeks. I've lost and regained weight before.
I've been that statistic you're so enamored with.
I know other posters, a couple of them posting in this thread have also been that statistic. All of us are making it work this time around and really, who are you to come traipsing in trying to rain doom and gloom all over us? Why project so? Why not turn around and learn and just have at it and pull yourself together and learn from what went wrong last time?
One of the things I've learned coming to MFP is learning from my past mistakes and moving forward with determinism.
Great. I wish you awesome luck.2 -
curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
You seem determined to quash any and all optimism or determination to try.
That's my issue with you.
If you think this is my first rodeo, you're mistaken.
I've been dieting off and on since I was 13. I'm going to be 55 in a few weeks. I've lost and regained weight before.
I've been that statistic you're so enamored with.
I know other posters, a couple of them posting in this thread have also been that statistic. All of us are making it work this time around and really, who are you to come traipsing in trying to rain doom and gloom all over us? Why project so? Why not turn around and learn and just have at it and pull yourself together and learn from what went wrong last time?
One of the things I've learned coming to MFP is learning from my past mistakes and moving forward with determinism.
Great. I wish you awesome luck.
I too don't really understand your vociferous need to point out how doomed people are who try to lose weight. How many people don't know that? And how many would be easily discouraged if that's all they ever heard?8 -
VintageFeline wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
You seem determined to quash any and all optimism or determination to try.
That's my issue with you.
If you think this is my first rodeo, you're mistaken.
I've been dieting off and on since I was 13. I'm going to be 55 in a few weeks. I've lost and regained weight before.
I've been that statistic you're so enamored with.
I know other posters, a couple of them posting in this thread have also been that statistic. All of us are making it work this time around and really, who are you to come traipsing in trying to rain doom and gloom all over us? Why project so? Why not turn around and learn and just have at it and pull yourself together and learn from what went wrong last time?
One of the things I've learned coming to MFP is learning from my past mistakes and moving forward with determinism.
Great. I wish you awesome luck.
I too don't really understand your vociferous need to point out how doomed people are who try to lose weight. How many people don't know that? And how many would be easily discouraged if that's all they ever heard?
The thread is for "unpopular opinions" is it not? Clearly mine is one.
I honestly do wish everyone good luck.
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HeliumIsNoble wrote: »I think asking people not to be smug about their current success, and to have compassion for others, is fair enough. Indeed, it's a lesson I learnt in other areas of my life long since, and however well my weight loss goes, I am never going to sniff in contempt at others' poorer success.
Well I sure hope I'm not coming off as smug, because I'm not. And I certainly hope I'm not coming off as being without compassion for people who have regained, because that's far from the truth.
I would hope that people who are struggling would have the grace to be kind towards people who are trying to succeed and not sniff in contempt and try to deride their efforts with how doomed to failure they might be.
There is effort involved in this for everyone and it is through conscientious application of prioritizing our energies that we are able to achieve our goals - or not. If it's in your best interests at any point in time to prioritize a different goal, that's fine, I certainly get that. I'm not the type of person who can juggle a lot of balls in the air. I can only keep so many things in the forefront at once.
So no, there's no smugness about my "success", but there's a calm about it, because I've made a lot of things a habit, and I've put systems in place for things to take care of themselves on autopilot because I learned during a time when there were a lot of balls in the air where there were some flaws in my planning.
One thing that defined a lot of my previous dieting attempts was an element of uncertainty of outcome. Dieting was always a mystery because I was always separated by the system I was using and the knowledge of how it exactly worked. The scale did or did not move. Results were frustrating and didn't always correlate to perceived effort.
When I started using MFP, that all changed. I got the results I expected and knew why what I was doing was working. Well, my planning now for weight maintenance remains calm because of that knowledge. That's not smug.12 -
Okay. I think this one may be unpopular, but every woman I know well enough to discuss weight management with, actively thinks about and works at maintaining a healthy weight. They may never have been classified as "overweight" simply because they stopped/reversed the weight gain when their pants start to get too tight.
It may look easy to an outsider, but it isn't. It is absolutely crazy to think that once you achieve a certain weight you can coast and ride easy. It is a lifetime of taking care of yourself and prioritizing your health.
While I'm sure there are healthy weight people who absolutely never think about it, I think they are the unicorns. They might not obsess about it as much and simply eat less when they feel the extra pounds coming on.
This was my late mother-in-law. She was a notorious sweet eater, but I always knew when she was dieting when she would turn down dessert. She'd mention that her pants were tight and that would be that for a few weeks, then she'd eat dessert again.
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curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
I get what's bothering me about your narrative.
You aren't accepting responsibility for your weight regain.
It just happened, gosh darn it all.
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
And in your opinion, it will just happen to all of us, like it "just happened" to all those other people you keep mentioning.
Not one of them was responsible, those pounds just threw themselves at you poor defenseless people.
You didn't overeat a single thing.
You didn't stop weighing yourself and ignore the weight creep.
You didn't notice your clothes getting tighter and having to buy new sizes year after year after year.
It just bloody happened.
That's the difference between success stories and all the folks you knew.
People who succeed, and people who try to succeed nip bad behavior in the bud somewhere along the way by owning that behavior.
Even now, you still sound like you're playing craps instead of undertaking the task of managing your weight when you talk about being back here on MFP.
Good luck with that.32 -
I haven't voiced this before because it is very non MFP of me
I believe you can lose weight safely and get all the nutrition required on a VLC (800-900 calories) diet by eating the right (i.e. healthy) foods and cutting out "junk".
I would very much like to see a day in a diary where all nutritional needs are met at that level of calories without supplementation.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
I get what's bothering me about your narrative.
You aren't accepting responsibility for your weight regain.
It just happened, gosh darn it all.
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
And in your opinion, it will just happen to all of us, like it "just happened" to all those other people you keep mentioning.
Not one of them was responsible, those pounds just threw themselves at you poor defenseless people.
You didn't overeat a single thing.
You didn't stop weighing yourself and ignore the weight creep.
You didn't notice your clothes getting tighter and having to buy new sizes year after year after year.
It just bloody happened.
That's the difference between success stories and all the folks you knew.
People who succeed, and people who try to succeed nip bad behavior in the bud somewhere along the way by owning that behavior.
Even now, you still sound like you're playing craps instead of undertaking the task of managing your weight when you talk about being back here on MFP.
Good luck with that.
Sorry, an awsome wasn't enough bloody fantastic Is way better.
Cheers, h.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
I get what's bothering me about your narrative.
You aren't accepting responsibility for your weight regain.
It just happened, gosh darn it all.
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
And in your opinion, it will just happen to all of us, like it "just happened" to all those other people you keep mentioning.
Not one of them was responsible, those pounds just threw themselves at you poor defenseless people.
You didn't overeat a single thing.
You didn't stop weighing yourself and ignore the weight creep.
You didn't notice your clothes getting tighter and having to buy new sizes year after year after year.
It just bloody happened.
That's the difference between success stories and all the folks you knew.
People who succeed, and people who try to succeed nip bad behavior in the bud somewhere along the way by owning that behavior.
Even now, you still sound like you're playing craps instead of undertaking the task of managing your weight when you talk about being back here on MFP.
Good luck with that.
Wow. And that wasn't smug?15 -
@GottaBurnEmAll I haven't noticed you being smug! Not at all.
That's about it. No-one participating in this latest discussion is being conceited.lemurcat12 wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »I think asking people not to be smug about their current success, and to have compassion for others, is fair enough. Indeed, it's a lesson I learnt in other areas of my life long since, and however well my weight loss goes, I am never going to sniff in contempt at others' poorer success.
I agree with this, but I didn't notice people NOT being compassionate for others in this current discussion (in others, sure).
But as a more general thing, weight loss and conversation about weight loss is like any other subject- sometimes people get a bit big-headed, and do say things that... reveal a lack of emotional intelligence and... understanding how complex life can be. Again, not a dig at anyone right here, but it seems a reasonable thing to contribute to an Unpopular Opinions thread.
I'd have phrased it differently though; I think "Sometimes people are right kittens about their success, and they will realise it when their past arrogance comes and bites them in the *kitten*" is quicker to type.3 -
MFP censors that?!0
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curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
I get what's bothering me about your narrative.
You aren't accepting responsibility for your weight regain.
It just happened, gosh darn it all.
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
And in your opinion, it will just happen to all of us, like it "just happened" to all those other people you keep mentioning.
Not one of them was responsible, those pounds just threw themselves at you poor defenseless people.
You didn't overeat a single thing.
You didn't stop weighing yourself and ignore the weight creep.
You didn't notice your clothes getting tighter and having to buy new sizes year after year after year.
It just bloody happened.
That's the difference between success stories and all the folks you knew.
People who succeed, and people who try to succeed nip bad behavior in the bud somewhere along the way by owning that behavior.
Even now, you still sound like you're playing craps instead of undertaking the task of managing your weight when you talk about being back here on MFP.
Good luck with that.
Wow. And that wasn't smug?
Honesty & reality =/= smug.
I felt her post was very encouraging and bang on. Taking on a victim role has kept far too many people from achieving their goals for far too long.19 -
curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
I get what's bothering me about your narrative.
You aren't accepting responsibility for your weight regain.
It just happened, gosh darn it all.
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
And in your opinion, it will just happen to all of us, like it "just happened" to all those other people you keep mentioning.
Not one of them was responsible, those pounds just threw themselves at you poor defenseless people.
You didn't overeat a single thing.
You didn't stop weighing yourself and ignore the weight creep.
You didn't notice your clothes getting tighter and having to buy new sizes year after year after year.
It just bloody happened.
That's the difference between success stories and all the folks you knew.
People who succeed, and people who try to succeed nip bad behavior in the bud somewhere along the way by owning that behavior.
Even now, you still sound like you're playing craps instead of undertaking the task of managing your weight when you talk about being back here on MFP.
Good luck with that.
Wow. And that wasn't smug?
Not in the least. Smug is something you are about yourself.
I'm not looking down on you.
I'm just pointing out what you're saying.13 -
curiouskate wrote: »One of my unpopular opinions: If you have not lost at least 50+ pounds and MAINTAINED that loss for 2+ years, I take everything you say about weight loss/maintenance with a grain of salt. Unless it's something indisputable like the science of CI/CO.
I can go along with this, but I would say I don't believe someone is going to maintain until they've kept it off for ~10 years. 2 is just the beginning.
Whoot! I lost 52 pounds and have maintained that loss for 15+ years! I HAVE ALL THE POWER.33 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
this isn't my kind of issue, but to me it's more like 'what's the point of hearing the 3/4 one?' that one goes nowhere even if it is true. it's like me hearing that xty percent of women diagnosed with r.a. by age y will have z-percent lower life expectancy, or whatever it is.
if that turns out to be true about me, then it's going to do that without help from me. there's no reason for me to pay any attention to it. it's a dead topic. the fact that in the meantime i can do a, b, and c is simply more interesting and it's the place my attention goes to.
i think the original poster on this topic was making a statement about her own baselines for credibility though. which isn't directly related to whether or not a specific person is going to end up in the empty glass or the one that's part full.
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nutmegoreo wrote: »I haven't voiced this before because it is very non MFP of me
I believe you can lose weight safely and get all the nutrition required on a VLC (800-900 calories) diet by eating the right (i.e. healthy) foods and cutting out "junk".
I would very much like to see a day in a diary where all nutritional needs are met at that level of calories without supplementation.
I'm almost tempted to play around with mocking up a day's diary to see if it's possible.
But nah.2 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »I haven't voiced this before because it is very non MFP of me
I believe you can lose weight safely and get all the nutrition required on a VLC (800-900 calories) diet by eating the right (i.e. healthy) foods and cutting out "junk".
I would very much like to see a day in a diary where all nutritional needs are met at that level of calories without supplementation.
I'm almost tempted to play around with mocking up a day's diary to see if it's possible.
But nah.
I was tempted too. Seems to be an exercise in futility and frustration though.3 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »I haven't voiced this before because it is very non MFP of me
I believe you can lose weight safely and get all the nutrition required on a VLC (800-900 calories) diet by eating the right (i.e. healthy) foods and cutting out "junk".
I would very much like to see a day in a diary where all nutritional needs are met at that level of calories without supplementation.
I'm almost tempted to play around with mocking up a day's diary to see if it's possible.
But nah.
I have seen one person who did very, very well nutritionally on (IIRC) 1000-1100. Better than most others in my friend feed who were a similar size but eating probably half again as many calories. Every bleepin' calorie counted. I can't remember for sure if it was without protein powder, but I'm certain that that was not a major component. Not losing excessively fast, either.
There are a lot of people, among the diaries I've looked at, eating sufficient calories to get good nutrition, but not actually getting it: Too little protein even by USDA/WHO standards, too little veg/fruit (often next to none), sometimes too little fat as well. It seems somewhat common.
Neither is a great plan. Which is worse? I suspect the ultra-low calories with good nutrition would get more push-back around here than the adequate calories with kinda crummy nutrition.
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nutmegoreo wrote: »I haven't voiced this before because it is very non MFP of me
I believe you can lose weight safely and get all the nutrition required on a VLC (800-900 calories) diet by eating the right (i.e. healthy) foods and cutting out "junk".
I would very much like to see a day in a diary where all nutritional needs are met at that level of calories without supplementation.
I'm almost tempted to play around with mocking up a day's diary to see if it's possible.
But nah.
I have seen one person who did very, very well nutritionally on (IIRC) 1000-1100. Better than most others in my friend feed who were a similar size but eating probably half again as many calories. Every bleepin' calorie counted. I can't remember for sure if it was without protein powder, but I'm certain that that was not a major component. Not losing excessively fast, either.
There are a lot of people, among the diaries I've looked at, eating sufficient calories to get good nutrition, but not actually getting it: Too little protein even by USDA/WHO standards, too little veg/fruit (often next to none), sometimes too little fat as well. It seems somewhat common.
Neither is a great plan. Which is worse? I suspect the ultra-low calories with good nutrition would get more push-back around here than the adequate calories with kinda crummy nutrition.
I've noticed that too. Many times by people who say they are hitting their macro/calorie goals and including ice cream, booze, cookies, etc. but no where near the recommended fruits and veggies.4 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »My unpopular opinion: most people who got fat as children/teens will never maintain a healthy weight, and the best we can hope for is yo yo dieting. The other option is accepting being fat for good. The existence of a few exceptions to this rule doesn't change my opinion. Statistically, it's an obvious fact.
Yup, that's a pretty unpopular opinion. I know a lot of us here who plan on proving you wrong.
I don't "hope" for yo-yo dieting. MFP has taught me how to control my weight properly. I know what to do to prevent the yo-yo cycle from happening.
I didn't have that knowledge in the past. That's the big difference.
But the post didn't say it can't be done. It said "post people...' A lot of people here plan on proving it wrong. But statistics suggest most of that lot will fail, and even if all succeeded it would still be a small majority of the whole.
Exactly.
Hey if it was just me, I'd probably just have decided I'm a personal failure at weight loss after gaining back 100 lb the second time (again, it took years to lose it, years of maintaining, then a few more years of gaining it back.) and I used to sound exactly like every person who believes this will not happen to them.
But it wasn't just me. I can point to at least 20 people who used to do these WL forums with me ~10 years ago who were dedicated, motivated, smart, committed etc. and the same thing happened to all of them.
I have to conclude based on the evidence that maintaining a large WL permanently is something *most* people will not be able to do.
Most people won't. That is backed up by statistics. But I do agree with others that should not be seen as an excuse not to try and break that cycle. Some do it. The only way to join the minority is to never stop trying.
Yep. Most people with a diagnosis of cancer, even if the odds of survival longer term are fairly low, will do what is in their power to fight it.
Curiously, IME, anything but diet and exercise, often.
Why I say this: After 17 years, I'm still a frequent participant in a breast cancer support group (at this point, mainly to be an encouraging live demo that there's hope for long-term survival of quite advanced BC - I was stage III, multiple tumors, some large, positive lymph node).
A common scenario is that when people complete surgery, radiation & chemotherapy - when the intensive phase of treatment is over - there's a bit of a letdown. Some feel as if they've stopped fighting, or that their treatment team has stopped fighting for them, or something of that sort.
So, they say "what can I do to keep fighting?". Tears in eyes, sometimes, literally.
Locally, we're extremely lucky to have a varied range of free or very inexpensive exercise programs for BC survivors: A light aerobics-ish class in 3 locations based on Lebed method; YMCA yoga, tai chi, and fitness classes at multiple times & locations; and a rowing team.
So, they ask, and we say "exercise, healthy eating, and weight loss", and tell them about the solid basis for saying that. For regular exercise in particular, even without weight loss, there's fairly good research evidence that some subgroups get at least as strong a positive effect on reducing metastatic recurrence as they do from chemotherapy.
Responses vary, but around 90% of the time, the response amounts to "well, anything but that".
This stuns me, but it's by far the most common outcome. Thousands of BC survivors locally, a few dozen in these exercise programs.
Sorry, digression. I doubt it's an unpopular opinion that people can be stubbornly irrational about their own self-interest. Same mindset that keeps us getting obese.
That's a shame. A strong body is often very helpful in fighting virtually any illness. A friend has a rare form of brain cancer. He was able to qualify for an experimental treatment program because he was in extremely good shape (other than the cancer) marathon runner, weight trainer, etc.1 -
curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
So, do you believe your results would have been different if you had known the statistics before? Do you think knowing that you have a high risk of regaining most of the weight have made you more likely to keep it off?
I believe that being less arrogant about it may not have helped me keep it off, but it would have saved me a lot of apologies/embarrassment when I was wrong.
If you hang around "I regained weight" threads, you will see that many here are not arrogant about their current success. They understand the intricacies and challenges of weight maintenance. Replies to these threads tend to offer encouragement, discourage self-hate, help the poster troubleshoot their regain to try and make it less likely to recur, and keep stressing the fact that maintenance is an ongoing effort.
I don't think it's arrogance to do all in your power to make it happen. I've dieted with maintenance in mind ever since I started. Everything dieting decision I make is aimed at sustaining the loss. Would that "regain proof" me? Who knows, maybe or maybe not. But I know it gives me a leg up and makes long term maintenance more likely. Note that long term maintenance may involve mini yoyoing, and that's alright. Most people, even the naturally thin, are not maintaining one stable weight at all times.4 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »I haven't voiced this before because it is very non MFP of me
I believe you can lose weight safely and get all the nutrition required on a VLC (800-900 calories) diet by eating the right (i.e. healthy) foods and cutting out "junk".
I would very much like to see a day in a diary where all nutritional needs are met at that level of calories without supplementation.
I'm almost tempted to play around with mocking up a day's diary to see if it's possible.
But nah.
I have done it a few times when I first started using fast days (800-1000 calories) as a tool. It's hell to put together and sometimes you end up with food combinations that simply don't work, but I've done it. I no longer put myself through that wringer and look at my nutrition in a continuum, but let me see if I can dig out one of these low calorie days. Note that prolonged barely sufficient energy (calories) makes it a worse option by default for various reasons regardless of nutrition.
ETA: too far back, can't remember which time period it was. Oh well. What you basically do is pick one dish that you like which doesn't have many calories and you believe is reasonably nutritious, plug it in, then see what micronutrients are lowest and look for the highest source per calorie using one of the tools out there which offer this kind of search. For protein, if a portion of it comes from chicken liver or clams that helps a lot because both are very nutritious low calorie sources of protein, but I don't like either so it was harder for me to put things together.4 -
curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
I get what's bothering me about your narrative.
You aren't accepting responsibility for your weight regain.
It just happened, gosh darn it all.
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
And in your opinion, it will just happen to all of us, like it "just happened" to all those other people you keep mentioning.
Not one of them was responsible, those pounds just threw themselves at you poor defenseless people.
You didn't overeat a single thing.
You didn't stop weighing yourself and ignore the weight creep.
You didn't notice your clothes getting tighter and having to buy new sizes year after year after year.
It just bloody happened.
That's the difference between success stories and all the folks you knew.
People who succeed, and people who try to succeed nip bad behavior in the bud somewhere along the way by owning that behavior.
Even now, you still sound like you're playing craps instead of undertaking the task of managing your weight when you talk about being back here on MFP.
Good luck with that.
Wow. And that wasn't smug?
I don't see any smug in there.
4 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »I haven't voiced this before because it is very non MFP of me
I believe you can lose weight safely and get all the nutrition required on a VLC (800-900 calories) diet by eating the right (i.e. healthy) foods and cutting out "junk".
I would very much like to see a day in a diary where all nutritional needs are met at that level of calories without supplementation.
I'm almost tempted to play around with mocking up a day's diary to see if it's possible.
But nah.
I was tempted too. Seems to be an exercise in futility and frustration though.
I began cutting my holiday weight yesterday and ate 1197 calories, it was a pain to fit in enough fat. Hit protein fine and 900g of mixed fruit and vegetables.
I don't think I could have gotten close on 800 calories.1 -
RuNaRoUnDaFiEld wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »I haven't voiced this before because it is very non MFP of me
I believe you can lose weight safely and get all the nutrition required on a VLC (800-900 calories) diet by eating the right (i.e. healthy) foods and cutting out "junk".
I would very much like to see a day in a diary where all nutritional needs are met at that level of calories without supplementation.
I'm almost tempted to play around with mocking up a day's diary to see if it's possible.
But nah.
I was tempted too. Seems to be an exercise in futility and frustration though.
I began cutting my holiday weight yesterday and ate 1197 calories, it was a pain to fit in enough fat. Hit protein fine and 900g of mixed fruit and vegetables.
I don't think I could have gotten close on 800 calories.
I would have to play with it. I naturally tend to be low on fat, so I need to make a conscious effort to increase that. I find there are several vitamins and minerals I need to focus on to get enough. I do fit in a treat, but it usually helps towards reaching the daily targets in some way or another. Best I've done (without putting a lot of time and effort into it), was around 1500 to hit all daily targets (even then, I take a multivit).0 -
Finally found one. Under 1000 calories and with reasonable nutrition.
4 -
curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
I get what's bothering me about your narrative.
You aren't accepting responsibility for your weight regain.
It just happened, gosh darn it all.
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
And in your opinion, it will just happen to all of us, like it "just happened" to all those other people you keep mentioning.
Not one of them was responsible, those pounds just threw themselves at you poor defenseless people.
You didn't overeat a single thing.
You didn't stop weighing yourself and ignore the weight creep.
You didn't notice your clothes getting tighter and having to buy new sizes year after year after year.
It just bloody happened.
That's the difference between success stories and all the folks you knew.
People who succeed, and people who try to succeed nip bad behavior in the bud somewhere along the way by owning that behavior.
Even now, you still sound like you're playing craps instead of undertaking the task of managing your weight when you talk about being back here on MFP.
Good luck with that.
Wow. And that wasn't smug?
No it was honest.9 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
I get what's bothering me about your narrative.
You aren't accepting responsibility for your weight regain.
It just happened, gosh darn it all.
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
And in your opinion, it will just happen to all of us, like it "just happened" to all those other people you keep mentioning.
Not one of them was responsible, those pounds just threw themselves at you poor defenseless people.
You didn't overeat a single thing.
You didn't stop weighing yourself and ignore the weight creep.
You didn't notice your clothes getting tighter and having to buy new sizes year after year after year.
It just bloody happened.
That's the difference between success stories and all the folks you knew.
People who succeed, and people who try to succeed nip bad behavior in the bud somewhere along the way by owning that behavior.
Even now, you still sound like you're playing craps instead of undertaking the task of managing your weight when you talk about being back here on MFP.
Good luck with that.
Wow. And that wasn't smug?
No it was honest.
Your honesty could do with a touch of compassion...11 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
I get what's bothering me about your narrative.
You aren't accepting responsibility for your weight regain.
It just happened, gosh darn it all.
How's that for an unpopular opinion?
And in your opinion, it will just happen to all of us, like it "just happened" to all those other people you keep mentioning.
Not one of them was responsible, those pounds just threw themselves at you poor defenseless people.
You didn't overeat a single thing.
You didn't stop weighing yourself and ignore the weight creep.
You didn't notice your clothes getting tighter and having to buy new sizes year after year after year.
It just bloody happened.
That's the difference between success stories and all the folks you knew.
People who succeed, and people who try to succeed nip bad behavior in the bud somewhere along the way by owning that behavior.
Even now, you still sound like you're playing craps instead of undertaking the task of managing your weight when you talk about being back here on MFP.
Good luck with that.
Wow. And that wasn't smug?
No it was honest.
Your honesty could do with a touch of compassion...
True honesty rarely is.8
This discussion has been closed.
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